Saturday, September 08, 2007
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Rudy: Illegal Immigration Not a Crime
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Posted by:
Matt Lewis at
7:03 PM
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Rudy Giuliani is making a big mistake.
This quote about illegal immigration from today's Washington Post will show you what I mean:
"It's not a crime," Giuliani said Friday. "I know that's very hard for people to understand, but it's not a federal crime."
Giuliani's comments came in an interview with CNN Headline News and
radio talk-show host Glenn Beck.
"I was U.S. attorney in the Southern district of New York," he said. "So believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it's not a criminal proceeding. It's a civil proceeding." Ok -- Maybe Rudy is right...technically. But what does being right get him?
Elections aren't about showing how smart you are. And in this instance, it seems like Rudy is actually using a technicality to advocate a politically unpopular position (like the "fact" that illegal immigration isn't a felony).
What is more, Giuliani is arguing logic and facts, but illegal immigration is actually a deeply emotional issue. And in politics, emotion always beats facts. He should be talking about how this issue affects Americans on an emotional level -- not arguing over
technical facts (that's the lawyer in him, by the way).
So while Rudy may be technically right, in arguing semantics; he is really winning the battle but losing the war. Republican Primary voters know that illegal immigration is, well, ILLEGAL.
By the way, I see this happen to candidates all the time. They become so obsessed with winning the argument, that they lose track of winning the election.
A wise man once said, "don't get mad, don't get even, get ahead." That's a lesson every candidate ought to learn.
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He may have just handed the nomination to Thompson or Romney or Hunter....
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Oh well, it doesn't even matter, does it? |
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...some butter and jam, cuz I smell toast.
What's it gonna take for the good guys to get behind Hunter.....?!
By FAR, the best man for the job.... (pardon the frag sentence....) |
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Rudy has no more intention of enforcing immigration laws as GWB. The money that's paying for his campaign comes from the people profitting from the cheap labor express. He is the one GOP nominee who WILL lose to Hillary, many will say "why bother?" when faced with liberal New Yorker R or D. If we wish to keep our representative republic and our rule of law, the choice is clear: Duncan Hunter.
Conservatives can nominate a conservative. All it takes is not acting like sheep and getting herded into nominating a northeast liberal. 49% will never vote for Hillary, only 60% voted last time. Turnout was the difference. Give Americans a chance to vote for someone who WILL secure the border and watch turnout soar. Americans want their government to fulfill its most basic responsibility.
The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.
http://www.gohunter08.com
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First McCain, then Fred Thompson and now Giuliani. These guys are either getting very bad advice or deaf to the good advise they are getting. Either way, fatal. At least this means that the two guys I absolutely, positively will never ever vote for are gone: McCain and Giuliani. Romney and Hunter are looking more and more likely all the time. |
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Illegal Immigration is not a serious concern by Rudy Giuliani. I guess the push for Comprehensive Immigration Reform meaning the congressional term for Amnesty under his Presidency. GOP please do not nominate him we do not need 2 pro-amnesty candidates on the ballot. Him and the democratic nominee.
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When Rudy says he believes we should secure the border, he means in the same way it was meant in the amnesty bill: promise but don't deliver. Where was Rudy when the battle was on? In California telling everyone he ran NYC the same "post-partisan" Gov. Arnold is running California. There is absolutely no difference between electing Rudy or Hillary except that Hillary is still married to her scandal and Rudy IS the scandal. |
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Hey I admit I'm not a lawer, however; Immigration laws are Federal laws aren't they? So if you migrate here illegally; no visa, immigration authorization, work permit, etc. are the laws of our country being broken. Yes or no will do.
Rudy G. has just told you he shall not enforce our immigration laws or protect our borders, He does not deserve to be the President of the United States of America!!! Support any of the other candidates first & I have grave reservations with Mr. Romney. Senator McCain is self destructing before your very eyes. |
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is full of it, if he thinks he can pull this scam over on conservatives,.....he just showed his true colors, and did a McCain, shooting himself in the foot.
Before this "latest", I'd never have voted for Rudy anyway,....he's a damn RINO! |
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reminds me of my youth. One night I was returning to the squadbay after Karate class and one of my friends was sitting at the top of the stairs chuckling quietly to himself. He was a first generation American of Spanish parents (from Spain don't you know). He said, "Listen," and as I listened I heard three other Marines we knew downstairs arguing in Spanish; One was a scion of Cubans from Miami; One of Mexicans from San Antonio; The third of Puerto Ricans from Hoboken. Since I didn't understand them, I looked to my friend and said, "So, what's funny?" He said, "They're arguing about how to speak Spanish," and laughed again and said, "They're all wrong." |
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I remain undecided on which Republican who will get my support for President. Although a conservative, I am willing to make some concessions on issues important to me.
However, I will not compromise on the war, the judges, or immigration.
Rudy is off my list - even if he is our nominee.
He joins my Republican Senator, Norm Coleman. |
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Patterico nailed Rudy with this yesterday:
http://patterico.com/2007/09/07/rudy-should-know-better-entering-the-country-illegally-is-a-crime/
8 U.S.C. Section 1325:
“Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of such an offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months….
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OK all of you, we had the illegal problem in 1986 because no one was protecting our borders.
It's now 21 years later, we've had Republican and Democrat presidents, and who has protected our borders? Which candidate do you think really plans to protect our borders? I don't believe any of them. So check out my website
http://www.DonCordellforPresident.com
Hispanics brag they are going to overrun our nation and President Bush intends to erase our borders with the Security and Prosperity Partnership. Now Mexican truckers are being given the right to drive all over our nation. Bush is going full steam to build the super highway from Mexico to Kansas City where that port will be controlled by Mexican authorities. Then Mexican trucks can deliver all that trash from China all over our nation.
Have you had enough? Are you going to fight back, or have you already decided it's too much trouble to fight back?
Well let me tell you, if you elect any Republican or Democrat they will continue the open borders, and you can expect millions from all over the world coming in to our nation, and demanding we cater to them in their language, and customs. Islamists promising terrorism, openly entering our nation, and no accounting for where they are.
Our nation does not have any Homeland Security.
Our Border Guard senior official admitting their major job is to stop terrorists. HOW, they don't have the ability to stop anyone. Arizona invaded daily, threating land owners along our border.
If citizens demonstrate against illegal aliens, they are told to leave, as they are creating a disturbance. Yet Illegal Aliens demonstrate by the thousands telling us we can't arrest them, they have rights. Well I'll give them rights, the right to leave our nation or have everything they own confiscated, and then driven out of the country in cattle trucks. Not flown to Mexico City on 747's at your cost.
If we dont start to protect our nation, we have no nation. |
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So this is just confirmation that my reasoning was sound and justifiable in the first place! |
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I can hardly wait for roberto to now tell us that, among all the other things he is, that he's also a lawyer.. Ha Ha Ha
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As I'm limited to word content his will suffice:
United States Code
TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY
CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY
SUBCHAPTER II - IMMIGRATION
PART VIII - GENERAL PENALTY PROVISIONS
U.S. Code as of: 01/03/05
Section 1325. Improper entry by alien
Go here:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/8/chapters/12/subchapters/ii/parts/viii/sections/section_1325.html
Rudy, you couldn't be more in error, but being a social "progressive" of the "big tent" persuasion it's understandable. It's also understandable that openly inferring that you would not PROTECT AND DEFEND the integrity of the republic eliminates you from presidential consideration. |
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You "progressive" and "big tent" proponents kill me. If you're that into the open borders bit why bother erecting a tent so you can cut slashes in it to allow "illegals" in? Just tear down the tent and let's have A-N-A-R-C-H-Y.
What a bunch of dim-witted morons! |
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... bites the dust. First it was pro-amnesty Republican John McCain who threw away his chances by sleeping with Ted Kennedy and Lindsey Graham-nesty, now we have Rudy G. being quoted as saying "being an illegal alien is not a crime."
Are you and me nuts? Why do we back morons like these guys? Hillary would be a disaster, but what's the difference when our party is no different from the Dems?
Note to Rudy G., drunk driving is a crime, stealing a candy bar from a store is a crime, and sneaking accross our borders is a crime! For goodness sakes! What kind of crazy world am I living in? What is happening to the United States of America? |
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It IS a crime! It is a violation of Title 8 and the second offense is a felony.
80% of the American people want an end to anarchy!
Illegal workers are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.
Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required to arrest and prosecute, deport them.
No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance.
See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for. |
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Rudy is just stating the facts.We may not like them. We may thinkthey need to be chanded but never the less things are the way are and Rudy is just laying out the problems in hopes they can be fixed. |
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Anne writes: Sunday, September, 09, 2007 9:46 AM
Rudy was NEVER on MY list!
So this is just confirmation that my reasoning was sound and justifiable in the first place!
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Yes, we know. You prefer candidates that duck having to work, accomplish or contribute anything. Before Fred ducked the debate, Fred ducked the consequences of his vote for a war.
Rather lead oversight of the Iraq War like McCain, Freddie needed to relax with his desperate bimbo and her unpaid legal bills. Freddie ran the Federal City Council--pro illegal immigration, lol.
No Fred wants to duck his chronic illness, his tort lobby friends, his homeland security bureaucracy, his no child left behind bureaucracy, and his 1998, 1999, 2000 votes against tax relief.
Good thing his most significant sponsored legislation was to name a post office. That get people to look beyond his no message and no distinction on social, fiscal or monetary issues.
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The dictionary definition of "immigration" is as follows:
noun
the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country
The dictionary definition of "illegal" is:
adjective
contrary to or forbidden by law, esp. criminal law
(example given in the dictionary is "an illegal immigrant")
It may be true that BEING here is not a federal crime, but the ACT OF CROSSING OUR BORDER without authorization or documentation IS a crime, thus the term "illegal immigration." |
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Out of 35 posts, you take the time to address ME, and tell me what I prefer!
Thanks for the support! Don't know what I'd do without the liberals telling me what I think and do, and what I SHOULD think and do.
I'm bettin' that every other Conservative poster on TH is just so jealous that you don't make note of what they think..... LOL
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That's my impression of the law.
Illegal entry is a crime, illegal presence is a civil violation.
I believe you can't charge someone who's been here for years with illegal entry because you don't have physical evidence of their actual illegal entry.
I think it's similar to that you can't charge me with having smoked Marijuana 30 years ago.
And that is probably reasonable. I don't think it makes sense to incarcerate people for illegal presence in the country.
Don't punish them, just deport them.
That being said, Giuliani is clearly very weak on illegal immigration. Clearly he supports amnesty. And his notion that we stop illegal immigration by securing the borders is very disturbing. That is one piece of the puzzle, but unless you remove the magnets for people to come to this country illegally and to stay in this country illegally then you will have an illegal immigration problem.
At least Giuliani is not as bad as McCain though. McCain's new "get tough" policy is to hold off on amnesty until the border governors certify the border is secure. My God McCain sure has contempt for the American people.
We are going to have amnesty be contingent on Bill Richardson, Janet Napolitano, Rick Perry, and Arnold Schwarzenegger, all hard core open borders globaists, certify the border is secure?
Hey, McCain, how about this plan: We grant amnesty once the ACLU certifies the borders is secure.
Give me a break.
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Had Rudy had any common sense at all or the required ability of forsight and social awareness that it takes to be President he never would have done something else either. I keep waiting for these "brilliant" reporters to ask him this question. Mayor, after you've been sworn in as President and you finally realize that hordes of Islamic Terrorists are spreading pictures of you dressed as a woman from your Saturday Night live appearance to motiviate terrorists all over the world to kill our American troops will you regret making that appearance? Did you ever really want to be President? |
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It just occurred to me:
McCain's new plan has a huge achilles heel.
He is saying the border state governors would certify the border was secure before the amnesty is triggered.
But as we all know, illegal immigration is no longer a problem confined to the border states.
Furthermore, what the heck kind of law would it be that provides for governors of a handful of states to have a legal role that is denied to those of the rest of the states.
In fact, it seems like it could very well be unconstitutional up the yin yang.
McCain's opponents could really nail him on this one.
However, they probably won't. Because despite the media cheerleaders trying to resuscitate his campaign, I think his presidential hopes are dead.
So, there is no incentive for the other candidates to beat up on him. Their better strategy is just to ignore him, so as not to alienate his remaining supporters. When McCain drops out of the race, they don't want to miss out on trying to win over his remaining supporters due to having alienated them earlier in the campaign.
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Guiliani is absolutely right about the law. It's also absolutely true that conservative commentators have been appealing to emotion and not to the facts in this whole immigration debate. Matt Lewis, and many of those who follow with comments, think Giuliani should pander to that too. It's a sorry state of affairs, and one that will lose us Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and maybe Montana and Florida by the time it's all over. Giuliani clearly said he will do a better job of enforcing the border, but you jump all over him anyway because he has the nerve to actually understand the law and not make cheap points with the angry white nativists like so many talk show hosts and politicians are doing. |
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get outta here with this guy. i can't wait to vote AGAINST him. I don't think he stands a chance in Texas. |
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Day one!......"Bracewell and Guiliani" (His Lawfirm) has been the sole representation of CINTRA the Spainish Consortium that is building the NAFTA SUPER HIGHWAY! His Security Company made of 20 trips to Mexico City, trying to get the security contract for the largest city i9n the world.....He has been "Pro Amnesty" from the begining of his first days as mayor........Rudy's a lib in a GOP primary! |
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