Wednesday, September 05, 2007
|
|
The Winner?
|
|
Posted by:
Mary Katharine Ham at
10:44 PM
|
Fox's focus group is calling it for...McCain?
Like, overwhelmingly.
They were verily disappointed in the man from New York.
I thought McCain did well, as he always does. He spoke well about the war, as he always does. He was eloquent about service, as he always is. Still not working for me and many other conservatives because of many things outside of the debate, and the immigration discussion, and the vote against the Bush tax cuts.
I thought Rudy was solid, had a few good laugh lines, laid out the stats for his job in NYC. The focus group gave him guff for being "stuck on NYC," but the only other option for him is being "stuck on 9/11," which he already gets guff for.
Romney didn't stand out for me, but I thought he stood up nicely under some really whithering questions. Youch.
Duncan Hunter shined in the second tier. Really smart guy with really in-depth answers, especially on Iraq and Iran. Huckabee was well-spoken and moving at times, and will probably get some points for facing off with Paul. Here's the video.
Fred didn't fare too badly, I don't think. The candidates didn't go after him too hard, and the debate was not a thunder-and-lightning affair. I thought the last Fox debate was far more entertaining, and this one may fade away quickly.
Update: Here's a GOP debate poll that you can compete with the Paulies to flood.
You can also text a vote to 36288 for the Fox News poll.
Paul was pretty entertaining and spoke often tonight, so I think the Paul-supporters will likely be pumped and calling and clicking like maniacs.
Update: Look for more video highlights shortly at Townhall Videos.
Update: Ron Paul, summarized:
MORE: Okay, I think Ron Paul's bit on homeland security after 9/11 was dead-on. But later when he talked about how the American people didn't go to war, just a small cabal of neoconservatives, he sounded like, well, a kook. What about that Iraq war resolution in Congress?
That's how a lot of us feel about him. "Dang, he's really right about that. But, whoa, is he wrong about that."
|
|
...is clearly the best man for the job. That's why he won't win.
I don't care what "tier" he's on.
MK....your fingers must be ready to fall off..... |
|
|
like totally like overwhelmingly? like wow! |
|
Ron Paul said the solution to Iran/nukes is to "JUST BACK OFF." Brilliatn strategy - not!
This is why he cannot be president, as I have been saying all along. |
|
|
It's tongue-in-cheek, angel. Lighten up. |
|
|
Man, the boys butter has slipped of the biscuit! Come november if I pulled the lever for Ron Paul and then someone found out about it I would have to get lower than a snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut. Because I certainly would be ashamed I had a lapse in judgment in the voter booth. |
|
was the one who was giggling? I thought it came from Fox. I have no intention of voting for Guiliani, but if it's true he's the one he was way out of line. Cong. Paul is off the wall in
some areas but he's correct about following the Constitution, that's what these nincompoops are expected to do when they take the oath. It was
very disrespectful. What bothered us was the time taken up by the "frontrunners," we know what they are going to say since everything is canned. We wanted to hear more from Hunter and Tancredo and Huckabee. Rudy ran overtime almost every time he answered, Hunter couldn't finish his thought. I expected the proverbial hook to come out from Stage right. Huckabee/Paul interplay was what I'd call the only debate in the whole dog and pony show. |
|
Ron Paul clear winner. He was the only old school Republican on the stage. The rest are Neocon hacks. Ohhh and I loved it when Sean Shamminty kept saying, let me educate you Congressman Paul. I don't think Sean has ever read a book.
NeoCons are destroying the GOP. Rudy Julie is the worst. That guy is downright scary. And to top it off, crazy madman Norman Podhorets is is chief foreign policy advisor. The man who writes a column called, I pray we Bomb Iran. What kind of sick SOB prays we start bombing a country that hasn't attacked us. |
|
Dr. Paul is the only one who has a lick of brains. On the Iran question he was the only one who said he would work as a diplomat before rushing in to millitary action. The rest just war mongered. Most of War mongers never served in the millitary (RUdy, Mitt, Huckelberry Brownback Sean Hantitty...) I served in the USMC most of my firends from the USMC support Ron Paul because he knows that our millitary is sick of being pawns for a $ game. We signed up tp serve our country and protect our freedom not attack countries that have done us no harm.
Question for the war mongers....
How did the USSR fall?????
Not millitary action, not terrorism.......
They went broke.
And now we are going broke.
That is what Ron Paul means when he says we are less safe now than ever. WAKE UP NEO CONS you are destroying our country. |
|
I swear, Ron Paul Van Winkle fell asleep sometime during the late 18th century and just woke up !
He hasn't yet heard of planes, trains, automobiles, missiles, or nuclear weapons.
He thinks if we just leave Portugal alone, they won't sail across the Atlantic to attack us with their...naval fleet !
Oy vey.
And that New Hampshire focus group that Frank Luntz spoke to was just batty. I swear, Santa Claus could have taken part in the debate and the focus group would have been "disappointed" by him, too.
And just what is it with all of these people who think Rudy focuses too much on "NYC" ?
Being Mayor of NYC is a huge deal---surprise !---that's why Al-Qaeda attacked that city.
After all, they didn't target Little Rock or Cedar Rapids.
New York City has a bigger population and greater economy than most individual states, as well as several of the smaller European nations.
C'mon, folks, there's one issue on the table which transcends all others---and that is the fight against Islamic Jihad.
If Ron Paul's Brigade of 18TH Century Romantics wish to be distracted by fantasizing about abolishing the Department of Education while Iran & the Members Only Omams are playing with centrifuge in their laboratories, that's their prerogative as free American citizens to be insane.
But they should expect to be embraced like the obnoxious Uncle at Thanksgiving Dinner who tips back a few too many mixed drinks while ranting about the World Bank and UFOs landing in Roswell, New Mexico. |
|
If McCain won and Rudy lost then McCain may pick up a point or 2 in NH from Rudy. I am not sure anyone was watching the debate. Does anyone have a rating estimate? How many actual voters did this reach?
So far the MSM comments are limited and bland. |
|
|
Not to my mind. After the debate he showed his temperamental side with Hannity, showing he does not have the composure to be president. I actually do like him - in some instances he's great. But there are too many dealbreakers with him. |
|
Jack Shiite wrote;
-------------------
"Ron Paul will be strong on defense, make no mistake..."
-------------------
Yes, I have no doubt that Ron Paul Van Winkle will be steadfast in defending the Atlantic Coast from any sneaky attack by the naval fleet of...those dangerous Portuguese !
By the way, which tariff are they upset at us about---is it that pesky Tariff of 1792 ?
Jack Shiite also wrote;
--------------------
"...but his message on the direction our country ought to be going domestically is center stage in my opinion."
--------------------
Hallelujah !
I'm glad to see that Ron Paul won't be distracted by Wednesday's announcement of the disrupted Jihadist plan to attack our military base in Germany---which is on a different continent from the Arabian Peninsula---let's just close our eyes to Islamic Jihad & all that talk about an Islamic Caliphate and instead focus on abolishing....the Department of Education ! |
|
It's interesting to see Fox spin actually
bought by the people watching.
The truth is there was noone on that stage
more educated on our history, more educated
in economics, and more educated on the
principles this country was founded on, than
Ron Paul.
He's not a sound bite guy, but he does speak
from a wealth of knowledge.
There is an agenda that is so controlled
and it needs to be undone.
We are listening to arguments about a war
that should not have been entered into.
All the snickering and one upness in the world
does not defy logic.
We need to get back to the rule of law and the
Constitution.
|
|
consistently ACCUSING anyone who disagrees with ronniepaul as being mean and nasty and using personal attacks etc......
Just take note of the name calling and ad hominem attacks above....
They're the posts by the paulists!
|
|
But I believe this was Duncan Hunter's best so far. Will it be enough to bump him up a few points? Who knows!!!!
ronniepaul, however, just shot himself in the other foot!!! That's exactly what we need in the WH, a petulant "cut & run" old sour face!
The poor guy is just CLUELESS!
|
|
Rudy did not do well in the Luntzometer. In this debate Rudy seems to have shifted his 9/11 image over to a NYC image. NYC has a lot more baggage than 9/11. Other polls indicate that Rudy is best known as the "Mayor of NY" the more he is associated with NYC instead of 9/11 the less appealing he is.
Romney is on the right track. The best way to attack Rudy is to associate him directly with the negatives of NYC. Most Reps do not Love NY. They are uneasy with NY in general. It is the bastion of the Dems and the home of the NYT. It ranks with SF as a symbol of just about everything the Reps don't believe in. |
|
... for Hugh or Dean to declare Mitt the winner.
.
.
.
[crickets chirping]
But seriously, I thought McCain looked better than he has in months. I also am warming to Ron Paul. He may not make it to the White House, but he has been and will be good for the process. I thought Huckabee did better than most commenters have said. I also thought Rudy did well. Romney was a complete disaster this go round. It seemed like Rudy and McCain were gunning for him, figuratively and literally from both sides, and that can't be good. But his lame answer to the serviceman's father, and his scolding by McCain for trying to have it three ways on Iraq, laid bare the lack of substance there. On the plus side, he had a nce tan. Brownback is even less relevant than Hunter, who I continue to like but don't see rising in the polls. Tancredo needs to take the hint and fall off the stage...
|
|
|
|
...Hampshire!
FDT the next POTUS! Yeah baby! |
|
|
|
|
If I remember corectly, when I went into a store and broke something on a shelf, my parents had to pay for it.......When Government goes out into the world and breaks something, the children pay for it. Perhaps like myself, Ron Paul remembers a time in America when you could make a child stay in the car as a deterant to breaking something? This existing Government's position seems to be,"Don't worry about breaking something. It's cost plus 3% and we have plenty of contractors to fix it!"........"Iraq For Sale" made me realize that more than anyone, "HALIBURTON" went to war. |
|
I'm glad Ron Paul is in the race, and in politics: he brings a needed viewpoint, as do many others who are nonetheless too extreme to ever be elected to an office higher than the one he holds.
I agreed with the focus group (before I heard them). John McCain will have my vote in the primaries: I believe he will prosecute the war honorably and not politically; I agree with his position that any bill to lower taxes while not addressing spending is a non-starter, and I like his vow to veto pork barrel spending. |
|
|
The Paulians were out last night...pathetic really. Their nutcase of a hero can't win a single thing except unscientific polls which the Paulians can swarm and vote multiple times. Anytime a scientific poll is taken, he barely registers in the single whole digits. Face reality Paulians, he, like yourselves, are a bunch of nutcases who have no clue about the world that we live in or what the Constitution does and does not say. |
|
We all believe that the power to declare war lies with Congress, as Article I Section 8 states, "To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water". However, tell me where in the Constitution it says that any declaration of war requires a formal document and must include the phrase, "We, The Congress of the The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA do DECLARE WAR on *insert name of country here* this *insert date*."
On October 2, 2002, Congress passed this:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html
It is explicitly titled: Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
Congress passed? Check
Authorizes Pres to use military force? Check
Specifies Iraq? Check
War was declared...you lose.
I'm not terrified of Paul, I pity him. Such brilliant domestic policies yet he can't see beyond the edge of his nose on foriegn policies. The United States has been interventionist to varying degrees in other nations economies/politic/military affairs since it's inception.
We can't just hide behind our oceans and pray the militant Islamists ignore us, because they won't. They'll declare victory and move the battlefield, first to Europe, (which is half lost already) then here. |
|
|
Having our currency based on gold rather than promises doesn't matter a hill of beans if we're too terrified of going out and spending it for fear of terrorist bombings at the malls, markets, sporting events, etc. |
|
Jack Shiite,
I wrote;
--------------------
"I'm glad to see that Ron Paul won't be distracted by Wednesday's announcement of the disrupted Jihadist plan to attack our military base in Germany...."
--------------------
and you responded by writing;
--------------------
"The German embassy thing? Your ignorance is showing, might want to cover it up."
--------------------
Jack Shiite, I'm talking about the military base and airport which the Jihadists were targeting in Germany---it was announced on Wednesday that those Jihadists had been apprehended.
But I didn't mention ANYTHING about an EMBASSY---where did you pull that out of ?
Then again, the fact that those Jihadists have been apprehended doesn't animate you because it doesn't fit into your huffing and puffing "neocon" narrative, nor does it support Ron Paul's insistence that they fight us due to having a presence on the Arabian Peninsula.
The reason they fight us is that they seek to establish an Islamic Caliphate.
They want your family to submissively get on their knees and pray to Allah five times a day.
I realize it's a scary thought, and just like the screaming lefties distract themselves by focusing on "global warming," you and the rest of Ron Paul's 18TH Century Romantics distract yourselves by focusing on abolishing...the Department of Education !
Jack Shiite, if you want to run away from this thread the same way you & the Ron Paul Brigade want to run away from the Jihadists, I don't blame you.
But if you're gonna run away, maybe you should just change your Townhall monniker to "Chicken Shiite."
|
|
Chicken Shiite wrote;
-------------------
"Are you suggesting the attack on the German base would have been sucessful in a Paul Presidency? Stupid."
-------------------
Chicken Shiite, not only are you misguided in your opinions, but you're blatantly dishonest in the way you misrepresent what people write.
Why do you compromise your credibility with such wild extrapolations ?
Your inability to effectively delineate 'cause & effect' from a corollary is a little frightening.
But it's interesting that you think we can't have a military base in Germany simply because Al-Qaeda doesn't want us to.
Sounds like you'll be compliant in dropping to your knees on your little prayer rug five times a day when Al-Qaeda instructs you to do that.
Just out of curiosity, old timer, what part of the country did you grow up in ?
(I'll be a gentleman and politely withhold my guess.) |
|
You wrote: "I fear Jihad; Jack Shiite fears D of Ed....The reason they fight us is that they seek to establish an Islamic Caliphate. They want your family to submissively get on their knees and pray to Allah five times a day. I realize it's a scary thought, and just like the screaming lefties distract themselves by focusing on 'global warming,' you and the rest of Ron Paul's 18TH Century Romantics distract yourselves by focusing on abolishing...the Department of Education."
It is readily apparent that FEAR is, indeed, what drives your thought. It certainly is not logic or rationality as "George W. Bush" pointed out on this thread when he suggested campaigning for you to become Secretary of Defense.
Your thought that the goal of the Jihadist extremists is the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate represents fear-derailed logic operating without the benefit of logically correlated data to support it. It is the basis for fear-mongering demagoguery.
Where in the world did you get the notion that they (the Jihadists by virtue of their numbers) believe that they can get us all to bow to Allah? And, please dispense with quoting from the Koran or from other ancient texts or from the rantings of madmen. |
|
You wrote: "I fear Jihad; Jack Shiite fears D of Ed....The reason they fight us is that they seek to establish an Islamic Caliphate. They want your family to submissively get on their knees and pray to Allah five times a day. I realize it's a scary thought, and just like the screaming lefties distract themselves by focusing on 'global warming,' you and the rest of Ron Paul's 18TH Century Romantics distract yourselves by focusing on abolishing...the Department of Education."
It is readily apparent that FEAR is, indeed, what drives your thought. It certainly is not logic or rationality as "George W. Bush" pointed out on this thread when he suggested campaigning for you to become Secretary of Defense.
Your thought that the goal of the Jihadist extremists is the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate represents fear-derailed logic operating without the benefit of logically correlated data to support it. It is the basis for fear-mongering demagoguery.
Where in the world did you get the notion that they (the Jihadists by virtue of their numbers) believe that they can get us all to bow to Allah? And, please dispense with quoting from the Koran or from other ancient texts or from the rantings of madmen. |
|
One Hot Minute...
Germany or the Arabian Peninsula? This is a straw man that you set up to knock down. The fact that Germany is not on the Arabian Peninsula is irrelevant to Paul's argument. We are attacked for our imperial hubris wherever they think they can make inroads to gain publicity in order to further their infantile campaign of terror-induction, which has worked like gangbusters on you, it seems.
Come to think of it, our campaign of terror-induction is even more scary than theirs, don't you think? We have 1,200 targets in Iran already identified and planes at the waiting. We have powerful people speaking of pre-emptive nuclear strikes. Who has the larger terror campaign. How do you think the civilians feel in Iran right now?
Yes, you raise a "scary thought." Scary to you, but not to me. What is more scary to me is the fact that you have become infected with the terror bug. Your urgings are what we need to fear. They lead to stirring up more unrest and perhaps even to nuclear holocaust. You call Jack "Chicken Shiite." I suggest that your moniker might be appropriately changed, since we are on the topic of chickens, to "Chicken Little."
"The sky is falling! The Islamic sky is falling...on us!"
Your pronouncements are fear-based and thus without merit.
|
|
ronniepaul was asked some question last night and he responded with..."The question should be...."
Obviously ronniepaul couldn't answer the question he was asked... so he side stepped it and went to what he wanted to say...
Well, that's exactly what the ronniepaulists do on every thread the infest..
And, btw, great suggestion... "JackShiit" should really change his name to "ChickenShiit!"
Excellent call. :-)
|
|
Uncle Jack Shiite,
You truly behave like everyone's obnoxious aging Uncle at Thanksgiving Dinner who indulges in a few too many mixed drinks as well in a few too many conspiracy theories about UFOs, foreign alliances, and Jews.
In fact, before the cranberry sauce is served, you probably would assert that Jews arrived here in UFOs.
(that's a little homage to your caricature of me a couple weeks ago in another thread as 'a traitorous Jew.')
In this thread, you and your cohorts have already misrepresented what I wrote in this thread a few times, particularly regarding the foiled attack in Germany.
To that I say, "what-ev-ah."
But you may not misrepresent historical facts, nor may you misrepresent what the Jihadists say they intend to do.
Ultimately, Islamic Jihad is a real threat.
I take the Muslims at their word when they say they wish to establish a worldwide caliphate.
The lefties are afraid to face the real evil, thus they prefer to fight other "evils" such as second hand smoke, pesticides, and 'global warming.'
Likewise, you and Ron Paul's cheerful Brigade of 18th Century Romantics don't want to acknowledge the real evil, thus you choose to accept all of the Marxist neurotic psychological justifications for why it is that Muslims continue to blow people up.
It's easier for you to swallow, than to think, "Damn, we really have to fight these people."
While Mahmoud & his Members Only Omams are in the University of Tehran's chemistry laboratory playing around with chemicals that go *boom,* you are more worried about how to win a fight against...the U.S. Department of Education !
|
|
Uncle Jack Shiite,
I've noticed in past threads you have demonstrated a resentment toward ethnic people, Jews, people in the big city, and probably anyone who doesn't subscribe to your view of pastoral America in the year...1792.
Fact is, the world has changed since the Monroe Doctrine, since the XYZ Affair, and since international wars involved sending naval fleets of men with feathers in their hat and flintlock rifles.
Indeed, planes, trains, automobiles, missiles, and nuclear weapons can now be used from afar to affect massive destruction.
Since you fashion yourself a historian, perhaps you can explain why during the late 17th century, the Jihadists were knocking at the Gates of Vienna---was that because they were angry at our then presence in the Arabian Peninsula ?
Were they upset at Israel ?
Was it Bill Kristol and The Weekly Standard's fault ?
No, it was because the Jihadists sought to enforce an Islamic caliphate.
Islam has waged war on infidels since the 7th century, many hundreds of years before we "neoconservatives" were scheming behind your back to successfully hijack the Bush Administration's foreign policy in 2003.
|
|
Uncle Jack Shiite,
You froth-at-the mouth about being a history buff, yet you don't even know what the Gates of Vienna was all about ?
Well, Gomer Pyle, Vienna happens to be a city in Austria, and Austria is a country in Europe.
Don't get confused now---we're not talking about kangaroos, putting a shrimp on the barbie, Nicole Kidman, or Crocodile Dundee---that's A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A.
This episode in Vienna took place in 1683, and it involved aggression by....surprise !---Islamic Jihadists !
...and guess what---they weren't motivated by anger toward at Israel, they weren't angry about an American presence in the Arabian Peninsula, and they weren't angry at Bill Kristol & The Weekly Standard.
Can you guess 'why' the Islamic Jihadists were being aggressive at Vienna in 1683, Uncle Jack Shiite ?
(hint: it has something to do with an Islamic caliphate.)
After you recover from drinking your Lynchburg Lemonade, you can go read all about it, old timer.
And while I appreciate your earlier invitation for me to visit you at your home so you can teach me a lesson about the 2nd amendment, I must decline, as I already saw the film, "Deliverance," and thus I have no burning desire to experience that movie in 'real' life.
Shalom !
|
|
|
|