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It would be nice to see all the neocons on TV bleeding to death... as soon as possible for the sake of humanity. |
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fecklessness than I. Listen to him, Lil' Duds.
It boggles one's mind to see the belief systems of the American Left and their Paleodoofus brothers out there on display together. I like Nick Sarkosy alot. And Angie Merkel. And Berlusconi. They ALL respect and honor George Bush. Imagine.
The Russian Oligarchs long for O'Bammy to be the faux American President. |
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Neither US muscle or "diplomacy" have anything to do with how this plays out.
It is clear the Russians/Putin carefully planned this long ago, and whatever happens going forth will be because they are keeping to script. It's not like someone sat down with Putin and gave some brilliant argument, and Vlad said "yah, I never thought of that, you're right".
Sarkozy in this instance is little more than a convenient conduit for the Russian story. If it wasn't always going to be him, it was going to be someone like him who has contacts with both the Russians and US. |
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So far, the successful French diplomacy has been an example of brain over brawn. But, if you want to argue that it was an implicit (neocon)threat of US force that got this done, go ahead, ok with me. I'm embarrassed for you, but, go ahead.. |
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have for...errrr...how to put this...MUSCLE??
Answer...Now, Focus, Dudds: We're their ONLY Muscle. |
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Congratulations to French President Sarcozy (a conservative politician) and other European diplomats for their stand-up diplomacy in efforts to end this conflict. The questions of its causes and outcomes remain. But this may well be a significant step toward revival of and support for diplomacy as the centerpiece for successful international relations. |
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The boy's self-involved, self-obsessed, tiny wittle jib-jab boogie got old about...a year ago.
Trust me. |
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You are fingernails on the chalkboard of logic.
Keep playing that one note though, it never gets old... |
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socialists always, must in the end, resort to brute force, to quench their thirst for power. People of good will, people who's natural yearning is freedom and liberty, will always reject the left, because they stand for the repression of liberty and freedom. Putin, Stalin, Marx, Chavez, Castro all stood or stand for this repression. The left of this country, idolizes all of the aforementioned and would repress freedom and liberty, if they could. The lefts ideas will always, in the end be rejected. Men must be free and the left cannot survive when men are given the choice. |
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Major league miscalculation. Working Georgia without regards to the consequences, and now we obviously cannot respond unless we want to start WWIII (or would it be WWV, using the right-wing numerology), so you have a Georgia political elite left holding their you-know-what in their hands because they always thought the Bush Admin would bail them out.
Once again, the Reep policy of "speak loudly, but sorry, we can't back it up, because our idiotic strategic blunders have tied us down--besides no one believes us any way, unless they are saps like the Georgia leadership." Nice. Man, do we need new leadership in this country.. |
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"Hey Cicero.. I guess Kosovo wasn't at war either. Yet you libs just couldn't wait to jump into that mess...."
I'm not a lib. I'm a conserative. A real one. Unlike you and your fellow Jacobins.
Does that help instruct you regarding what my view of Kosovo is? |
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....the anointed one to talk Putin down. Everyone knows he is the answer......
...till Putin squashes him like a bug. |
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We have won both wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Your premise is wrong and unacceptable.
Russia is creating a great "humanitarian catastrohpe", and should not be tolerated.
Russia's aggression goes back to Clinton's policy era.
Once U.S. and NATO, decided KOSOVO'S separation and dependence from Serbia, then Russia warned the West, of the example and rule of action is setting.
Thus, Russia is testing the U.S and world's resolve, they want to increase their influence and power in the region, this is just the first step of a conflict, of something the new Russian Primer said to our President in the last Summit, it was more like a warning, and that the U.S can not do much about it, considering the present political climate of Obama(nation!)
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In case you haven't noticed, we have been having our butts kicked by two third world nations, Iraq and Afganistan. We have been fighting for almost seven years and we have gotten nowhere. Maybe the Russians aren't afraid of us. Give me a break it was the congress that kept Bush from waging the war he wanted. He did and it was an embarassing failure. |
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Marystella, I do believe you are a provacateur. What did you have in mind, dear? |
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[To send RUSSIA few centuries back, and let them again struggle to build their empire.
This is our fine moment to take care of the biggest bully on earth and show how our might can be used.]
You think Putin is evil and has no problem killing civilians and yet advocate getting into a shooting war with Russia, the still proud owner of several thousand nuclear weapons aimed at us and our allies.
There's a distinct flaw in your logic.
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To send RUSSIA few centuries back, and let them again struggle to build their empire.
This is our fine moment to take care of the biggest bully on earth and show how our might can be used. Right now, Evil Putin has no problem killing thousands distroying cities, and no one is there reporting the misery.
Actually, this is Russia's mistake, and we have to make them pay for it. They chose their war, military wise, they are no comparison in strength, to U.S. force, this is the moment in history to show them the might of the United States of America.
This means, at the same time, Israel if they have any guts, their moment has come to nuetralize Iran's bomb making facilities, RIGHT NOW, while Russia is busy bulling a small nation, stealing their oil fields.
Yes, Iran's moment in history is now to lose all its nuclear facilities, RIGHT NOW. While UN, and others are busy with the Russia's aggression, genocide.
If, only the result of '06 elections had given us a different Congress, President Bush's policies would have been quite of a different sort.
For now, Pelosi, Reid, Obama, our Liberal leaders are gripped by cold-sweat of terror, and hiding behind their much prompt cautionary concerns. |
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The last few pictures from AP were fakes and easy to spot.
Hey Cicero.. I guess Kosovo wasn't at war either. Yet you libs just couldn't wait to jump into that mess.... now you want to talk about NAM....
Talk about slip & slide. |
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Telephone and other services are down in Georgia. I question where most of the reports are coming from. I suspect the MSM is merely ripping stories off of the AP wire. I haven't seen any footage from any source other than the Russians. Have the MSM outsourced on-the-ground reporting to Russians like they did in Iraq to Al Qaeda?
I will reserve judgment on exactly what happened until the smoke clears on where information is coming from. For now, even if the Georgians started it, it was an aggression within their own internationally-recognized borders. South Ossetia has no standing as a Russian territory other than their is a concentration of ethnic Georgians living there who are loyal to Russia. Bombing cities and seizing the main asset that keeps Russia interested in Georgia is what this is about. Who knows yet how it started. |
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At least the neocons have moved from their world view that it's always 1939 to the good times of the 1950's.
Progress, I guess.
[It is not in the interests of Georgia to start a war over South Ossetia.]
It is, if it were a short war, or Georgia had confidence that the West would back it against Russia.
Aside from which, it's always politically nice for a corrupt autocrat to distract the masses from his oppressive regime by stoking the fires of the outward threat.
In any event, this is NOT our war. It's an ethnic conflict that has roots before the Soviets came to power. And the last thing we need is to dive into that mess, escalate the situation and risk yet another war over Georgia. |
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To believe that the only reason we dealt with Saddam was oil is an untruth. |
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Yasha Levine/MoscowTime.com
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YOUR quoting from the MOSCOW TIMES! Gezzz you would make a great commie. |
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Well, oil in the region certainly plays a part in everything. But so does the Democratic Peace Theory and creating a democracy right between Iran and Syria so that extremists can't get protected and train. And so that we don't have to do what we've always done and support the lesser of two evils just for stability. And yeah, I believe that people in Iraq are not "stone age" but people who want freedom for the most part. It may not look like ours, but if they are so "stone age" why do Iraqis excel when they come to America? Also, what conspiracy theories do I believe in? That McCain wants a global government? That the GOP chose McCain? Hmmm, that's you. What "truth" do you speak of? That McCain is open borders? That in the past most presidents won with a large majority? That McCain and Obama have similar policy views on almost everything? That mandates matter? Yeah, sorry to let you know, those aren't "truths." But hey, you can always call me an idiot RINO race baiter, that's effective. |
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Right, and Russia had Peace Keepers in the area.
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We went into Iraq to liberate the democracy-loving Iraqis. Just like in Kuwait. We would never stoop so low as acting to protect our most obvious and critical national interests. Yeah, you sure exposed the real me. Go back to reading your comic books and fairy tales. In the real world, real nations fight for real things. Wasting a trillion dollars merely to establish a democracy among Stone Age people is not one of them is not one of them. |
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To believe that we would have bothered with Saddam if Iraq did not have oil is incredibly naive. |
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I thought that King Regean took care of this, guess not! |
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You think we went into Iraq for oil, yes I think that is pretty revealing about your thought process. |
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I just don't think we have enough information to make any conclusions about what started this. It is not in the interests of Georgia to start a war over South Ossetia. They are no match militarily and they are the ones with a pipeline that is driving the Russians crazy. |
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"Every media account I've read has stated (albeit generally several paragraphs down) that the current crisis started when Georgia attempted to retake the breakaway province."
Indeed, and here is one of the better ones I've read. I'm thinking Saakashvili might be better off being a circus clown than the leader of a republic, especially now that late news seems to be indicating that Russia intends to take the current Georgian regime down:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/hasgeorgiaoverreachedinossetia ;_ylt=ArLLyNKxuMYd8_y4fVlLjcFbbBAF
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[Kosovo is hardly a member of an American empire]
Given that the only thing keeping Serbia from invading and retaking the province is the presence of American and NATO troops, this statement is debatable. |
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This is not the act of a confident nation. They are desperate. This is a big risk for them to be taking. We should be leaning real hard on Turkey right now to threaten to cut off the flow from the pipeline should the Russians take it over. If I were the Georgians, I would be planning to blow up that pipeline. The Russians may also be planning that as plan B.
Is it too late to invest in that mutual fund that invests in these kinds of countries? You know, you can never be too diversified. |
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Every media account I've read has stated (albeit generally several paragraphs down) that the current crisis started when Georgia attempted to retake the breakaway province.
I am not naive enough to believe the Russian government's motives are completely benign, as I've outlined above. And I think pride/nationalism, asserting themselves against the West, and humiliating the Georgians play more of a role in this than economics.
I'm certainly not naive enough to believe they truly care about Ossetian civilians any more than the Georgians do.
They were handed an casus belli and they've taken full advantage of that. |
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via oil. The US is second banana now. We have our troops busy, our officials want the UN to like them, and we are in debt. Until we get un-PCed and get out of debt we have to sit here and like it.
The next Prez is going to have an awful 4 years. We are being threatened by Mexican gangs/army which are now interchangeable; by CAIR and other radical muslems who are peacefully infiltrating and changing America into Amerabia (check out our Universities and the state of Michigan if you don't believe me); Russia is going to be more aggressive; China is going to keep building their weapons up and buying up oil as well; and then we have other distractions like N. Korea, Iran and Venezuela.
McCain doesn't have the energy or stomach to handle it and Obama is a lightweight OTJ trainee.
Cheers! |
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Anybody who trusts Russians are fools. Bringing them into the G-8 and thinking they had changed their ways when the old guard KGB was still running the government is just stupid.
How could anyone doubt they would re-appear one day.....?
Patton was right.....they should have let him go after them when he had a huge well-oiled mechanized force in Berlin at the end of WWII. |
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The only sources I have seen that claim that the Ossetians were being attacked were from Russia. Russians had troops in Ossetia under the auspices of the UN. I think it is unlikely for Georgia to have attacked them but it will be a while before we find out what really happened. Believe me, it's the oil pipeline that is annoying the Russians. It's the only reason they keep troops in South Ossetia and the only reason they would have attacked the oil terminaling cities of Gore and Tbrisi which have nothing to do with Ossetia.
Do you guys work for the Kremlin? |
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Gori captured, military bases seized and NOT in S. Ossetia. Current news indicates your last sentence is absolutely correct. The Russians are trying to re-establish the Soviet empire either through conquest or intimidation. Your analogy below is not an apples to apples comparison whereas Kosovo is hardly a member of an American empire and Georgia was once part of the Soviet empire. Far as Putin and South Ossetia, an analogy of Hitler and the Sudetenland is more apt.
"Personally, though, I find it odd, yet predictable, that when we intervene several thousand miles away and bomb Serbians attacking a rebellious province, we're protecting Kosovo; yet when Russia bombs Georgians attacking a rebellious province right next door, they're trying to re-establish an empire." |
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...Hello, Soviet Union. They're baaack. |
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That's like hearing your dentist say, "Nurse, you'd better cancel my next four appointments...." |
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succinctly and intelligently put. I may quote you elsewhere, if you don't mind. |
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That's really putting me in MY place! Do you ever have anything constructive to say? Why don't you fill us in on "the truth". Does it have to do with UFOs and space aliens? |
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"Your so good at posting , try this one.
http://russia-insider.livejournal.com/25329.html"
Yeah, war is hell. And Mr. Saakashvili started this one. |
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"I guess you don't care if Puttin kills thousands more so he can have another mother Russia."
He already has a Mother Russia.
Did you happen to notice that Georgia, not Mr. Putin, started this war? |
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This is a sad situation, but Russia is hardly the only party to blame.
The Georgians chose to step up a tense situation and make it worse. They gambled that they could invade S. Ossetia quickly and hold it and that Russia wouldn't or couldn't be able to displace them (probably because they assumed with their courting of NATO that we would intervene.)
In better circumstances, they may have been right. This time, they were wrong. Now they are paying the price for their leader's folly.
However, after a decade of being treated as a has-been power and irrelevant by the West: Kosovo; NATO expansion; missile shields in areas that make our intent suspect; intervention in the elections of neighboring states; and a resurgence of Russian wealth due to oil and an accompanying rise in nationalism, Russia is determined to show the world that they are not irrelevant and should be shown respect.
Personally, though, I find it odd, yet predictable, that when we intervene several thousand miles away and bomb Serbians attacking a rebellious province, we're protecting Kosovo; yet when Russia bombs Georgians attacking a rebellious province right next door, they're trying to re-establish an empire. |
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"Had our government leveled with us about being in Iraq for oil, we wouldn't find ourselves playing along with the Russian fig leaf of claiming to be protecting their citizens as cover for a desperate oil grab." That's a revealing statement. |
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Subj: Pelosi Fiddles With Her Book Tour While Oil Prices Face Drastic Increases
Nancy Pelosi, unwilling to allow a vote on an energy bill that includes additional oil production, continues her book tour in an effort to whip flagging sales, while the current failed energy plan hangs like an albatross around our necks, with Russia trying to alternately bomb or take over the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline in Georgia,coupled with the pending threat of an Israeli attack on Iran and a retaliatory shutting down of the Straits of Hormuz. Democrats need to vote for drilling now! |
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The only reason that pipeline was built was to prevent Russia from using the oil as a political hammer with that oil as they did with Ukrainian oil. For Russian now to merely walk in and seize that pipeline is outrageous but is Europe's oil that is being seized, not ours.
Had our government leveled with us about being in Iraq for oil, we wouldn't find ourselves playing along with the Russian fig leaf of claiming to be protecting their citizens as cover for a desperate oil grab. They already had Russian troops stationed in South Ossettia under UN auspices to do that. We need to tell the story truthfully ourselves or we are just accomplices to the Russians. This is a move by a weak but desperate country exploiting a weak and rudderless country. |
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"Carter deeply weakened the US by fecklessness, naivete and inaction. Bush has weakened the US far more by fecklessness, naivete and extreme, ill-considered, badly managed action.
The antidote to Carter was Reagan. The antidote to Bush is Obama." Andrew Sullivan http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/ 08/bush-the-revers.html
I consider Andrew a friend, but I have to disagree with this. I do acknowledge Bush made some major mistakes that weakened us, but the antidote to that is not more Jimmy Carter. Obama's policy is that of Carter. McCain with his faults is much closer to Reagan.
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Your so good at posting , try this one.
http://russia-insider.livejournal.com/25329.html |
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Why should we even care what the EU thinks. They coudn't handle Kosovo, so we had to come help them.
I guess you don't care if Puttin kills thousands more so he can have another mother Russia. |
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Because an insurgency force cannot cause major difficulties for an invading army? If the Georgians can prevent a total route, and if especially they bloody the Russian's noses, they can probably forestall disaster. The key is not giving up and fighting back.
Or they can go the French route and surrender. |
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Georgia is surrounded and cut off from any aid from the free world other than Turkey. The pipeline in question runs from the port of Baku on the Caspian Sea in Azerbajian through T'bilisi and will eventually connect through Turkey to the port of Ceyhan on the Mediterranean. Turkey is the key.
Georgia cannot be accessed by water since it has the Caspian Sea to the east and the Russian-controlled Black Sea to the west. Any airlift would require fly over rights from countries, including Turkey, who would probably deny them.
Iran and Turkey to the south, Azerbajian to the east, Russia to the north, it looks grim for anything other than threatening Russian interests elsewhere.
Russia is running out of oil and their oil fields have been grossly mismanaged. This is a desperate power play exploiting our weaknesses of military exhaustion and domestic confusion while the China Olympics distracts the world. Unless we want to start bombing the pipeline ourselves to deny Russia its main objective, we cannot stop Russia from accomplishing their military goals on this offensive. |
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Those who thinks this is a little matter about a small territory inside a small country in the Caucasus are deluding themselves. Likewise are those who think that the US has no influence in the outcome of events. There are so many ways the US can lead the West in making Russia pay a price for this naked aggression. We better get started. |
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Anyone who things this is a little matter about a small territory inside a small country in the Caucasus is deluding themselves. Likewise are those who think that the US has influence in the events. There are so many ways the US can lead the West in making Russia pay a price for this naked aggression. We better get started. |
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"We could also send them arms."
If you mean military arms, that is what I mean with my comment about military aid like what we did for the Israelis (we sent them military arms, not just MREs and water purifiers).
I think we are in agreement. |
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I might answer your post if it were comprehensible. |
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We could also send them arms. |
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We cannot rescue Georgia directly with military action, but we can assist the Georgians and we should. We can do it will military aid like we provided the Israelis in 73. We can do it with diplomatic pressure. We can immediately give support to Ukraine, Poland, and other former Soviet sphere states.
You don't run away from a bear. |
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and makes it easier for the paleos and leftoids to unner'stan. |
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Sorry for the double post, half chenge through thingie. |
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Now guys who were born in countries as ally's to the United States can't be on McCain's campaign? I guess then we can all ask is any one working on Obama's campaign from the Sudan, Nigeria or Iran?
Cicero may have posted the dumbest comment of the week by Monday morning!
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Now guys who were born in countries as ally's to the United States can't be on McCain's campaign. Any one working on Obama's campign from the Sudan, Nigeria or Iran?
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http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=4919
You pseudocons need to read this article for an indication of why Juan Mequeno is no better than the Obamessiah when it comes to foreign policy, especially as it concerns Russia. The GOP's Doddering Darling from Arizona is a waste of space, and that's all there is to it. |
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"Which is precisley why Bush is going to sit on his tuckus with his thumb in his mouth-he and his administration doesn't know how to engage an enemy of equal or proportionate strength."
Absolutely. Heretofore, the struggle between Georgia and South Ossetia had been a NATO/Russia proxy war. Now Russia is in it, Georgia having gone loud against a republic that wants to align with Russia instead of the "liberal democratic" saviors from the West. Now Georgia must pay the piper, because Bush indeed is going to sit on his tuckus with his thumb in his mouth. |
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...in the same sentences of teh Left when opining on any foreign country (Russia at moment) and their aggressivess:
Russian attack, Bush's fault
Russian military advancement, Cheney caused it
Russian forces, Bush's failure
Russian aggressors, McCain experience not a positive |
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"Right now russia and china have been left free to shape the direction of the world because we have failed in our obligation to be a global partner."
Is that "partner" in the San Franciscan sense?
So you actually think that if we had been nicer to the euros, they'd get off of their wine and cheese fed butts and would have started participating in their own national defense?
Or maybe Saddam would have helped us counter the Russians, from his "box"?
What will Barack do, send Michelle over to rough Putin up?
Typical Democrat response to a crisis:
Step 1. - Blame Republicans.
Step 2. - Blame Republicans some more.
If the situation does not stabilize go to
Step 3. - Blame Republicans more forcefully.
If that doesn't work, go to
Step 4. - Raise taxes on the "rich".
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I'm sure that Georgia is glad that Obama isn't president. Obama would handle this by saying that this isn't the Georgia that I knew, and promptly throw them under the bus like he did his other 'friends.'
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That Russia had invaded Georgia, Barack Obama surrendered and stated:
"I for one, welcome our new Russian overlords. I am at their service as the last thing I want, is for the invading forces to move into neighboring Florida and South Carolina." |
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...in the same sentences spoken by the Left over this very aggressive behavior of Russia:
Russia, Land Grab
Russian military, collateral damage
Russia, empire
Russia, immoral
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Russia claims it did not target the pipeline. If it had, I think it would have been easy enough to go bck and finish the job. Wouldn't you? |
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Metro Dweebs think, ain't it?
Let's see..Russia invades Georgia=HATE Bush More!
...and..Russia butchers innocents=Despicable Bush!
The American Lib-Left: Moral Midgets. Hate filled dwarfs. Deniers of True Evil. |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080810/pl_afp/usvotegeorgiaru ssiaunrest
"WASHINGTON (AFP) - Prominent supporters of White House runners John McCain and Barack Obama clashed Sunday over the crisis in Georgia as a McCain adviser came under fire for his links to the government in Tbilisi.
As the Russian military seized control of the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia, the campaign of Democratic hopeful Obama defended its attacks on McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann.
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson said McCain's campaign "is run by lobbyists that represent Georgia and other countries. . . .
Richardson, a former US ambassador to the United Nations, said the crisis vindicated Obama's pledge to rebuild US alliances in Europe that were strained under President George W. Bush.
"This has been one of the failures of the Bush administration, failing to build a strong relationship, a mutually beneficial relationship with Russia, so we'd have the kind of influence to persuade them to stop some of these very, very dangerous efforts within their territory," he said.
Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine, who is touted as a prospective running mate for Obama, denied that the crisis might drive US voters to the more experienced McCain.
Experience is only positive insofar as it creates good judgment," he said on CBS News."
Who Lost Russia?: http://antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=4919
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so we have to play a little catch up. I'm ok with that, means we aren't an aggressive thinking country in spite of what liberals think. We'll figure it out, thank goodness, Obama is not in the White House. |
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Befuddled, bewildered over the aggressors of the world.
So predictable, their amusing perceptions. |
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