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i agree no bail out remember it was his dad's mismanagement that bankrupted american motors ,they gave us great cars like the gremlin . |
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Mitt's right and Detroit KNOWS it! |
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This just confirms my view that Romney was by far the most qualified of all the candidates. If he were a Catholic nobody would have heard of Huckleberry and Romney might be President elect.
Too bad Romney does not want the RNC Chair - he ouwld be perfect.
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Very well stated, spot on!
Anyone who'd disagree w/ Romney's proposal has a clear misunderstanding of economics.
The unions have paralyzed American manufacturing of any sort. Unfortunately, their socialistic demands & bully tactics have made it fiscally irresponsible to produce anything in our country. A bailout is another irresponsible demand. This is completely unacceptable –restructuring is the ONLY answer!
Thank you Mitt for this article & putting this situation into simplistic terms for us all to understand! |
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You can throw money at losing enterprises but the failing business model cannot yield a profit the way it is. A drastic radical change will need to happen in order to make a profit. A bankruptcy provides a supportive environment for such radical changes. Romney know that the jobs of unprofitable businesses will disappear and the only hope to save them in the long run is that restructuring that changes the business model into one that works to yield profits. Government can help in many ways but throwing money at a losing enterprise is not one of them. The wise in Detroit will listen to the guy who knows how to fix this. |
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Better check your history. I owned two Ramblers. George Romney took on the giants in the auto industry and won.
But I have noticed that your posts are consistently negative re Mitt.
Go Mitt! I like how he rolls up his sleeves to help America. |
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have not seen a rambler in at least 30 years,your right about one thing i despise romney .a backbiting, two faced ,fake conservitive. |
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"bill the carpenter" is the old Cimmarone: an ugly man with Mormon Derangement Syndrome (and poor writing skills).
Mitt is spot on; the companies need to reorganize and renegociate with the unions. Union stubbornness is destroying the country. Public service unions have already destroyed California.
Yo, Cimmy: The issue is not Mitt; it's the dang unions and a country gone mad with etitlement-lust.
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AMDG writes: Wednesday, November, 19, 2008 10:22 AM
"This just confirms my view that Romney was by far the most qualified of all the candidates."
Absolutely true! Romney / Petraeus 2012 !!!
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mitt will not be nominated ,get used to it . |
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is what Mitt is saying anything different than what Huck has been saying for 2 or 3 weeks? |
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you know mitt, he's got to see which way the wind is blowing before he he says anything! |
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I'm not counting on Mitt nor any other Pub for 2012: The nanny-state ninnies have spoken and are spawning by the millions. It looks like we will have Dems for the rest of my life-time.
So what if Huck has been saying the same thing? A lot of people are. So what if Mitt's op ed gets printed: He has Detroit and business street cred.
If Mitt and Huck are saying the same thing, why does that annoy you? We all know the answer to that.
You are so deranged re: Mitt that you cannot stand to see anybody on the planet listen to him.
Huck has his FOX gig, just like I recommended that he do. Calm down. Huck will never be president. The contest is over.
If Pub voices can unite and help us out of this mess, why do you care who it is? We all know the answer to that one too:
You cannot tolerate lending any credibility to any Mormon. You guys are nutz and harmful to the country. |
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i don't care if mike is elected president or not. i would have prefered him over mcain or obama .i really liked fred thompson .i like palin .
i despise romney ,his record proves that he is NOT A CONSERVITIVE by any stretch of the imagination. he is an overly smug eletist that happens to belong to the worlds largest and strangeist cult. |
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How is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a cult? |
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...you are dispicable--albeit inhuman. |
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let me count the ways ,founded by a convicted con man who used it for personel gain,and sex had over 30 wives some as young as 14 teachs that jesus was a god firstborn spirit sun of heavanly father a polygamus deity as compared with mainstream christainity cathlics and evangelicals who teachs that Jesusis the unique God the Son,second person of the holy trinity ,co equal with the Father. and of course there is the planet kolob lol lol lol lol lol and the doctrine of celstial babies,baptizing the dead ,blood atonement, a doctrine used during the bloody brigham young years to kill for profit and to consilidate his power over the poor benighted fools conned into this fraudulent excuse of a religion! shall i continue? |
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Now back up every single claim. Where does the belief of the Trinity come from? When was the bible actually assembled? |
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the new testament was compiled by christian scholars in the second century ,the belif in the trinity starts with the abrahamic covenant that begins with abraham and comes to fruition in Christ in the new testament .where did your strange beliefs come from? from a convicted con man and plagerizer? a man who used his power and position to accumulate wealth and sex!! i think you are the loser and that is too bad .perhaps if your cult did not discourage independent thought so much you would not be such a myoptic little mittwit!!!!!! |
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The trinity comes from the nicean creed. The bible wasn't compiled together comepletely until the 11th century. Since you haven't backed up any of your statements, you're just ignorant misinformed bigot. |
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where is the gardn of eden ? what soler system is kolob located ? what planet will you become the god of . what happened to those golden plates ? why do only mormons believe in a language called reformed egyptian ?how many people did brigham young have killed for apostasy ? who murded joseph smiths brother so brigham young could sieze power? how come there is absolutly no archelogical evidence to support the book of mormon? if there is no evidence of any of joseph smiths claims how is the book of mormon relavent ? if the book of mormon was perfect in its original form why has the church rewritten it several times ? why do your churchleaders purchase and supress all documents that are not favorable to the mormon church usally from sleazy people like mark hoffman? if your prophets are infallible why did they purchase false documents ? should they have known?answer those and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation . i doubt it because you are a total and complete buffoon!! |
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Physical evidence is proof? Where is the Bible's physical evidence? Look up Haplo Group X gene in certain American Indian tribes. How did it get there? You're preconceived ideas blind you. Go look up the Mormons Church history. Better yet you can get rent that movie by pbs called the American prophet. It's not written by Mormons, just historians. Go educate yourself. |
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there is no genetic tie between native americans and isrealites , the old testament is backed by reputable archeologists and anthropologist. they have used the old testament to locate lost cities the book of mormon on the other hand is bereft of all and any physical and archeological evidence check out thomas ferguson and his views on the autheticity of" mormon" archeological evidence lollollollollollollollol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Sac and the Fox are 2 Indian tribes that have the gene group called Haplo Group X . This genetic marker is only found in 3 groups of people Finns, Italians and the Druze. The druze come from Israel. Anthropologists know this is ancient dna because of various findings and dna testings. |
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Perhaps Detroit should consider hiring Romney to turn their companies around. The problem is, he doesn't need the money. |
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Romney/Palin in 2012,
they will get our country back on the right track,
Huckabee for Sec of State
Rudy for AG
Fred Thomspon for amb to UN
Micheal Steele head of the RNC
John Boehner house M leader,
we need to get behind one candidate,
and thats Governor Mitt Romney
in 2012. |
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the genetic markers are not there this is another example of the desperate attempt of the mormon cult to validate the plagarized and fraudelent writings of the crimnal who invented their cult.as a tribal member of the cherokee and choctaw nations i'm sure my brothers in the sac fox tribes will not be thrilled with this junk science. your gona have to better than that. even marc hoffman was better at faking documentation than youi are . did you know utah was the fraud capitol of the usa ? probably a direct corelationship with the number of gullible people in your cult |
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He said in January that he did not favor a bailout. He said it was imperative that we do whatever we can to save the auto industry. Things have gotten progressively worse since then but his message hasn't changed.
The U.S. auto industry needs to be saved, but in oreder to save it they must take some unpleasant medicine. I once broke my leg and resetting it was incredibly painful, but it had to be done in order for the bones to heal properly. The best way for the auto industry to heal is for it to go through a restructuring so it can move forward as a profitable, productive industry.
Sometimes the way you save a patient is to administer therapy that is not plesant, but is the best thing in the long term. Mitt is exactly right, as he was in January. |
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You mean that bastion of conservatism, the Boston Globe disagrees with Mitt Romney? Now that is news. Thanks for enlightening us. |
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James Beam go look it up and prove me wrong? |
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you belong to a cult ,by definition your wrong .as for the dna ,thats just grasping at straws. i guess you agree that the mormon cult was founded by a con man for money and sex? |
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You're a sorry a man who can't handle truth. |
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Look at how he governed Mass....RomneyCare anyone. This is the same mandated plan that Hillary wanted for the entire country. It was so successful in Mass. that the state almost went bankrupt!!! Oh, but Mass. got a Government bailout for the horrible health care plan Mitt Romney enacted as Governor. We can't forget gay marriage that started in Mass under Gov. Romney's watch. He didn't even fight it (his speech condemning it doesn't count..last I heard actions are what you need to pay attention to). Gov. Romney even threatened the Judges who wouldn't go along with gay marriage, that if they wouldn't do it, they lose their jobs. This among many other things Gov. Romney did to push gay marriage in Mass. He told the Republicans who support Gays in Mass. before he was elected Governor, that he would be a better friend to gays than Ted Kennedy. He was that, wasn't he! He did what the Dems hadn't been able to do. This is our Conservative....right!!!
Did you all know that Mitt Romney was on the economic group that advised McCain to support the $700 billion dollar bailout? How is that Conservative. Now he wants to redeem himself by going against a bailout for the 3 big automakers. Same old Romney, see what the public wants and change your position!! |
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i disagree ,the mormon cult has obscured ,rewritten and outright lied about anything that might not be seen in a positive light perhaps you should read unfiltered history i would suggest" one nation under gods"by richard arbanes exceptionally well documented and foot noted .i doubt that you will have the courage . does the magic underwear chafe? how many wives did joseph smith have? did brigham young have hosea stout murder joe smiths brother in order to seize power after smith was killed?these are much more important questions about your misguided cult than some mythical dna link in the sac fox tribes .besides if it exists it probably means that they are finnish an indo european tribe that has ties into asia and europe . did you know that finnish is one of the base languages of europe ? very very old . |
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You are wasting your time and energy with this argument. Take it from some of us who have dealt with this group before. You'll get nowhere. |
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You are wasting your time and energy with this argument. Take it from some of us who have dealt with this group before. You'll get nowhere. |
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read "One nation under gods " Richard Abanes well foot noted very well researched and documented . you can get a copy and read the reviews on amazon.com |
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Well foot noted? How in the world would you know even what a footnote is. You did, however, us one period in your last post... that's progress. You even used a couple of upper case letters. Been taking a night class? |
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Let James Beam go ahead and relieve himself onto this blog. We all know he is just trying to be provocative and perhaps bait Mormon's like you and me. He will filibuster any response you give him anyway, so why bother? Move along. He is not worth it. |
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at aleast i was polite to you . great book if you enjoy unfiltered history |
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not have come across as he did. He is a product of his upbringing. There is nothing wrong with being a stuffed shirt, but stuffed shirts often do not appeal to working people.
Two and a half years is a long time in politics. There are so many factors that can change outcomes. If Romney wants to run for POTUS in 2012, more power to him, the same to Governors Palin, Bush, Jindal and Huckabee. There are a lot of qualified individuals in the GOP.
Thank goodness we let McCain have his day, now we can get back to nominating candidates that look to the future rather than the past.
Anyone of the above governors would have been a better candidate than McCain this year and will make a good candidate in 2012. Just because of campaign skills I put my money on Huckabee. I would choose Bush but I am afraid his name will be too much to overcome. |
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You are correct. I should not have responded like I did to that one post. I was more responding to your earlier posts where you have shown a complete lack of respect for others and for their beliefs. |
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writer, who is bent on doing with words exactly what Picasso did with pigments.
One Nation under Gods
Through the use of questionable scholarship and misuse of sources, author Richard Abanes has set about to prove the very thesis and accomplish the very purpose he laid out in his preface. Of course, authors such as Abanes are convinced that the sheer volume of endnotes will awe the average reader and convince him or her that the conclusions being presented are indeed factual. Fortunately, his sources can be checked. If you want to see the type of "scholarly" use to which Abanes has put his quotes, feel free to click on the link below.
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/ |
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While I agree with much of what you stated - we need to find conservative leadership (although I don't share your fondness for Huckabee), I'm curious as to your heading. Why does a person's religious affiliation have any bearing on how he would come across?
What does it matter if Romney is Catholic, Mormon, Lutheran, Methodist, Jewish or not a member of any denomination? He is right about fixing the auto industry, period. Religion is irrelevant. Why bring religion into the discussion at all? |
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someone earlier had posted with the words "if Romney were a Catholic". I worded my comment as a response to that post.
Voting based on a person's religion is not my cup of tea. |
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I went back and looked. The "if Romney were a Catholic" post was much earlier, like Wednesday.
I had just read through most of the posts this morning so I picked up on it today. |
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"Voting based on a person's religion is not my cup of tea."
Then why all the Mormon bashing?
Why all the "Thank God for sending us politicians like Mike Huckabee." |
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Are you still using the ex mormon agnositic apatheitc atheist's site to debunk Mormons and religion in general?
"I put out the challenge. Prove ONE THING I've said about Smith is a lie, using a NON-LDS website as a reference. Seems like a simple enough challenge."
Prove one thing you've said to be true about Smith is true using LDS sites as a reference rather than two axeginders and an atheist.
Seems like a simple challenge enough, the kicker is, the truth isn't as fun as fiction.
Lets put all the cards on the table, you told me you'd break me in half,
you told me you were going to show me your manhood,
you told me you were as healthy as a football player,
Your full of hate and crap. I think we've already figured it out.
How's that BMI?
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Claiming you KNOW and HE'S RIGHT is relevancy and doesn't make him right, or you knowing the truth about anything. We've already gone through this, you make the claims, talk the smack, refuse to look at the other side. Whatever.
Mormons have nothing to do with the death of your parents, take your anger up with God.
Your lippy "Dawinistic approach", your confrontational nonsense, your unhealthy lifestyle, all lead to you being a paria now, just as it did back in your cadet days.
Im suprised that you even admit serving in the military, people like you are the exception, not the rule or the standard.
Now drop down and beat your face. |
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Still not addressing the whole issue.
Still pulling quotes out of your poop shoot.
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You continue at failing to show the whole story. Accusations are plentiful and easy, being accurate is hard for you.
Lavish lifestyles persist
Despite the loss of time-and-a-half pay, some Michigan autoworkers continue to live large.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0509/19/A01-318432 .htm
First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated.
Second, management as is must go.
The need for collaboration will mean accepting sanity in salaries and perks.
Investments must be made for the future.
It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition.
The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing.
In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=2
Read the WHOLE thing.
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Funny, as of this month,I am an NCO, and you are a disgrace.
Most NON LDS sercvicemen dont talk smack behind our backs.
Like I said, guys like that are the exception, not the rule, or the standard.
Anything you have ever brought up about the mormon faith has been dealt with and addressed by myself and others, you claiming your accusations as FACTS are just silly.
Now, drop and beat your face, after the two full pushups you can muster, flip over and do flutter kicks, repeat.
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Was the auto industry asking for a bailout in January?
Has Romney ever written them off or deserted them?
No, he's telling them how to keep their jobs.
Simply asking for more money without addressing the problem is more than just less effective.
Mitt Romney is telling the auto industry what needs to happen to stay viable, that is not flip flopping from his original message.
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I dont live in Utah.
You seem to forget easily these days. We have disscussed Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, etc...
Irony.
You cant find a single non LDS source that backs up your claims.
Just because you find something with lots of footnotes doesnt mean that they have debunked anything.
You cant even prove Joseph Smith was a child molester. All the projection and name calling isnt proof.
Just because an overweight,(Im as healty as a football player)apathetic,agnostic,athiest, who uses his self touted survival of the fittest approach to life says somenthing is the truth, doesnt make it so. |
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Asking "where is Wahington?", doesn't have anything to do with a bailout or being a flip flopper,
Cutting and pasting quotes as you do, you are just like the DRIVE BY MEDIA.
"I am not open to a bail out, but I am open to a work out. Washington should not be a benefactor, but it can and must be a partner."
http://www.mittromney.com/DEC_2008 |
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You dont address the scrolls that were burnt up in fire and lost, you only address the one scroll that survived.
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Prove it. Prove that he had sex with 14 year olds.
Prove, for that matter that he had sex with any other women.
White Salamander- THE DRIVE BY POSTER
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"Amd when you marry a 14 year old as a 35 year old man, you are a child molester"
What was the average age of females when they were married? Are you equating 19th century norms by today's standards?
Historian Kathryn Daynes, who has studied the subject in depth, says that although the female average age at marriage in the United States during the nineteenth century was twenty or older, a girl marrying at age 15 was not uncommon and certainly was not considered abused. The common-law marriage age for women was 12. Historically, outside of northwestern Europe, women at 14 to 16 were assumed to be ready for marriage.
That being said, you can't prove Smith had sex with anyone other than his first wife. Let alone 14 yr olds.
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You have alot in common with the anti prop 8 actiivists. Anger at religion in general, anger at Mormons in particular.
Hell hath no fury like an exmormon apathetic agnostic athiest, you, and gay activists scorned.
White Salamander- THE DRIVE BY POSTER |
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I see you haven't found a life. Still as nasty as ever. Pity. |
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"The fact is that all the JS Papyruses were NOT burned up."
What happened to the papyri?
After Joseph's death, the collection was eventually sold and split up. The original papyri were thought to have been completely destroyed in the Chicago fire of 1871. Fragments, however, including the illustration represented in Facsimile 1, were discovered in 1966 in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, who gave them to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in November 1967.
How much of Joseph Smith's papyri were recovered?
Joseph Smith had in his possession three or four long scrolls, plus a hypocephalus (Facsimile 2). Of these original materials, only a handful of fragments were recovered at the Metropolitan Museum. The vast majority of the papyri remains lost, and has probably been destroyed.
Dr. John Gee (Ph.D., Egyptology, Yale) has presented evidence demonstrating that at least 87% of the original collection is still missing.[2] Dr. Gee used a standard Egyptological calculation for estimating the amount of missing papyrus on a scroll. These calculations rely on how tightly papyrus can be rolled, and measuring the crease marks on the rolled papyrus.
Critics who claim that we have all, or a majority, of the papyri possessed by Joseph Smith are simply mistaken.
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"The whole "prove he had sex with them" claim is laughable, really." No ,it is not.
The fact that he had to threaten poor Emma with physical violence when she objected is proof enough of that..."
Physical violence? What a joke. Way to go Comic Book Guy.
Projection is not truth or proof.
Emma never denied Joseph's prophetic calling; she did, however, teach her children that Joseph had never taught the doctrine of plural marriage, and blamed its introduction on Brigham Young. Torn between two certitudes—her conviction of Joseph's prophetic calling, and her hatred of plural marriage—Emma had difficult choices to make for which we ought not to judge her.
But, the critics ought to let all of Emma speak for herself—she had a great trial, but also had great knowledge. That she continued to support Joseph's calling and remain with him, despite her feelings about plural marriage, speaks much of her convictions. As she told Parley P. Pratt years later:
I believe he [Joseph] was everything he professed to be. |
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"Mark Hoffman"
Gordon B. Hinckley, then a member of the First Presidency, purchased several apparently nineteenth-century documents from Mark Hofmann. They later turned out to be forgeries. Critics say that if Gordon B. Hinckley were a true prophet, he would not have been fooled into buying the forgeries.
Prophets are not omniscient nor infallible. The Church bought the documents when assured by experts that they were genuine.
Furthermore, President Hinckley, at a Young Adult fireside broadcast from Temple Square, spoke about Martin Harris and others mentioned in the Salamander Letter, and advised caution in accepting the documents' authenticity. He was careful not to proclaim that they were authentic:
"I am glad we have them. They are interesting documents of whose AUTHENTICITY WE ARE NOT CERTAIN AND MAY NEVER BE. However, assuming that they are authentic, they are valuable writings of the period out of which they have come. But THEY HAVE NO REAL RELEVANCY to the question of the authenticity of the Church or of the divine origin of the Book of Mormon.
Much has been said about the Martin Harris/W. W. Phelps letter. I ask: Shall two men, their character, their faith, their lives, the testimonies to which they gave voice to the end of their days, be judged by a few words on a sheet of paper that MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY ONE AND RECIEVED BY THE OTHER?"
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Prophets do not generally act to take away the free agent choices of others. President Hinckley's decision to purchase the documents allowed them to be examined, and kept them available for further study so that the forgery could be discovered. (Had a private collector, especially one hostile to the Church, acquired the documents, access might have been much more difficult.)
Hofmann made the decision to lie and cover his lies with murder. Tragic as such choices are, LDS doctrine would not expect God to typically intervene via a prophet, or personally, to prevent a person bent on making wicked choices from carrying out his or her plans.(See D&C 10:37 If God did so routinely, unfettered choice would be threatened.
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"Guy, do you ever think for yourself? I mean, besides taking lines from drug-using hypocrite Limbaugh, can you at least work up some of your own material."
Speaking of where you get your material from:
Apathetic Agnostic Atheists like your BFF and Bill Mauer come to mind.
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Rush's DRIVE BY MEDIA is famous, I have never got any material from Rush or his site. Although, as a conservative, Im sure we agree on alot of things.
Since I was raised Mormon and chose to stay Mormon I have a persective that you and Packham clearly can't have.(Thankfully!) |
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In the Book of Abraham, Joseph included three facsimiles of illustrations from the papyri, along with commentary about what the images and their individual parts represented. Some of Joseph's interpretations are similar to those of trained Egyptologists, but most are not. There are at least two possibilities here:
Kevin Barney hypothesizes that the Book of Abraham was written by Abraham himself, then passed from generation to generation until it fell into the hands of a hypothetical Jewish editor in the second century B.C. This editor attached it to a the Egyptian papyri because of the useful symbolism contained on the Egyptian funerary text.
Main article: A Jewish redactor
Richard D. Draper, S. Kent Brown, and Michael D. Rhodes have similarly theorized that "the original illustration drawn by Abraham had been modified and adapted for use by Hor, the owner of the papyrus. What Joseph Smith did with the facsimiles is thus similar to the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible—he gave the original meaning of Abraham's illustrations, correcting for the changes and distortions that had taken place over nearly two millennia."
We don't have all the material Joseph was working with, and until we do (which seems unlikely), we won't know why he interpreted the facsimiles as he did.
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Hoffman, you brought it up, I went into detail,
Apparently you didnt read it.
No where did Gordon Hinckley tout the letters as credible.
That is why you are: White Salamander- THE DRIVE BY POSTER |
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Is Mark Hoffman another one of your heroes?
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hinkley may not have publically touted the letters as credible.but he sure spent a lot of money to keep thenm away from the public . i would think that if they were not credible, at least to hinkley ,they would not have purchased them.
a simple review of unfiltered mormon history shows joseph smith to be con man of epic proprtion . typical cult built on greed ,lust and the murder of innocents . how many people did brigham young have killed using the excuse of blood atonement ? hundreds ? |
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"Anyone who makes Mormons look stupid...
is okay by me."
Duh!
"Obviously, growing up around you people is enough to make anyone a little nutty."
What's your excuse? Dont look inward, the tremendous weight gain, loss of faith, anger, loss of employment...blame it on the mormons.
"I mean, I spent six weeks with you, and I still hate your smarmy little cult 25 years later."
You spent six weeks with some guys who may or may not have been Mormon, I wasnt there.
I bet you were EVERYONE's favorite little apathetic agnostic atheist with a lippy southside Chicago streetfigher darwinistic approach to life.
Back then you didnt have a computer to hide all your lippy bravado, your shame, your anger, and you got taken to task for it.You still havnet got over it and you still havent dealt with your issues like a big boy.
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Oh whaaah, I got my feelings hurt by some meanie Mormons... BOO HOO... Shut up you big baby. Your stupid posts are so predictable. "I hate Mormons, they picked on me, they're all liars... blah, blah, blah". What a complete idiot you are. I am sorry I even acknowledge you and your moronic repetitive posts. |
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Good, you admit that have always been an apathetic agnostic atheist with a lippy southside Chicago streetfigher darwinistic approach to life.
Now how has that helped your health or allowed you to keep your jobs. Its a pattern you really need to deal with.
Mark Hoffman fan.
I noticed you havednt read the source provided.
I noticed you still have your conspiracy theories.
That's expected.
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Voting yes on prop 8 doesn have anything against being a homopobe.
As to what the Church of Jesus CHrist of Latter Day Saints has to say on it, why not go to its website.
That would be the normal thing to do.
But not for White Salamander- THE DRIVE BY POSTER |
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Voting yes on prop 8 doesn have anything against being a homopobe.
doesnt mean youre a homophobe or anything to do against homosexuals. |
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1972 wesley p walters and fred poffarl discovered courtbills from march 20 th 1826 justice albert neeley refers to jo smith as a glass looker "con man" lds historian lenard j arrington conceded the bill was drawn up by neely and casts joe smith as a glass looker his confession that he committed fraud is 4 years before the book mormon was printed . note his first vision did not mention an angel ,but a bloody bearded spaniard with his throat cut and he cuold show only smith the golden plates source parley chase statement of december 1833 online at solomanspalding.com/docs/1834howf.htm pg 248
until well into the 1800's it was acceptted that smith used a peep stoneto find the plates without an angel or spaniard o turner ,huistory of pioneer settlement of phelps and gorhams purchase ,and morris reserve this is just a tiny tiny bit of the sources which prove my point. satisfied ? |
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I get it, you have a problem with all religions, you hate Mormons because they're the most silly and because your feelings were hurt in 1980. I get it.
"(and I don't think your sissy mormon backside would last 5 minutes in Chicago.)"
Are you saying any mormon wouldn't last five minutes in Chicago or just me? There are plenty of members of the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Chicago,and many missionaries they're doing just fine. There you go projecting again.
Hoffman fan, I havent read anything about his sentencing, Im not going to project anything if I dont know any details.
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Incoherence.
Can you put that in english? |
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Lay off the sauce, you're drinking up all the product. |
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Look what up on Hoffman?
Us versus them mentality is the main sign for a cult?
What is the name of your cult that you started in 1983? |
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The murder investigation uncovered the forgery/fraud scheme. Forensic history was made in detecting Hofmann's method for chemically aging ink that was then applied to old paper. Following a five-week preliminary hearing, Hofmann was bound over for trial on thirty felonies, including two capital murders. Because he agreed to plead guilty to two counts of second degree murder and to discuss his crimes, the prosecutors agreed to dismiss the other charges, to accept a reduced sentence on the Sheets homicide, and to allow concurrent sentences. Thus, Hofmann was sentenced to serve one five-years-to-life sentence in the Utah State Penitentiary. Parole was indicated at seven years for someone with Hofmann's first-offender status. Hofmann rewarded the prosecutors with a four-hundred-page transcript on forgery but refused to discuss the murders.
In January 1988, one year after he entered prison, Hofmann attended a hearing before the Board of Pardons. When the board explored his thinking regarding the homicides, his responses convinced them to refuse to set a parole date. Shortly after the hearing, coded letters threatening the board were found in Hofmann's cell, and investigators learned that even before the hearing he had threatened their lives in conversations with other inmates. Following the hearing, Hofmann twice attempted to commit suicide, overdosing on drugs obtained from other inmates; however, in both August 1988 and August 1990 he was unsuccessful.
See: Linda Sillitoe and Allen D. Roberts, Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders (1988); and Richard E. Turley, Jr. Victims: The LDS Church and the Mark Hofmann Case (1992).
Linda Sillitoe
How does Hoffman's plea bargain have anything to do with the church? What is your point?
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i'm sorry that you fear what you'll find in your cults history . the truth shall set you free. |
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Im sorry that you have drunk so much of your own product that you can't make a coherent attempt at a comment.
Like I said, try again, I got your sources right here,
Im waiting for you to sober up and get clear about what it is you are trying to bring up. |
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read "one nation under gods " richard abanes exceptionally well documented . even your lds "scholars" do not question his scholarship.
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Who's babbling?
Hey genius I know who Hofman is, what he did, and what the salmander letter are.
You were mentioning the trial, the plea bargain, as if the Church put Hofman up to it so the church would save face.
Again projection.
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Richard Abanes?
Please.If you want to see the type of "scholarly" use to which Abanes has put his quotes, feel free to click on any of the links below. Each of them examine a single use of a fact or a single citation improperly used by Abanes. Each of them explains the reality behind the quote and the truth behind the fact. As you explore this information, we are sure that you will begin to recognize Abanes as a "surrealist" writer, who is bent on doing with words exactly what Picasso did with pigments--present a twisted and surreal view of reality. In this case, the reality of normal people living normal lives and seeking to worship and serve God to the best of their ability.
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/ |
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One Nation under Gods, page xv
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/pg0xva.html
One Nation under Gods, page xv
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/pg0xvb.html
One Nation under Gods, page xv-xvi
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/pgxvia.html
etc.....http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/
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"For those paying attention"
(?)
Where have you been? You brought it up.
"(according to your source)."
Hey genius, my source is the same source that you told me to look at, Hello? one of the authors of the book Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders (1988).
Man you are great. Speaking of paying attention.
Again, besides your projection, what was the role of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the Mark Hofman trial and how did they influence him to accept a plea bargain?
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"We all know LDS controls all the levers of power in Utah and SLC."
Really?
"They certainly could - and should - have gone for the maximum penalty for his crimes. The guy was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage."
When you say 'they', you mean the presecution right?
"So why give him such a lenient sentence? Because he fully disclosed the extent of the fraud?"
You are asking the prosecution right?
"Sorry, it doesn't make sense to give him a light sentence and execute Gary Gilmore."
So what does that have to do with the church?
Ask the prosecution. Ask that same question to the many prosecutors that allow lighter sentences to murderers that confess and give details.
Its the court system, not the Mormon church, unless the mormon church runs the judicial system throughout Utah and the rest of the US.
Dont let the truth get in the way of some good story telling.
White Salamander- THE DRIVE BY POSTER
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thats what i thought the looney mormon defenders site . noted for their ability to lie about their cult |
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No guts?
You were saying that Abanes did his homework.
He clearly didnt.
Hey, you said he was a scholar.
He clearly wasnt.
Now you get huffy.
Jim Beam, Cimmarone, Bill the Carpenter, assistant to the DRIVE BY POSTER.
Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story. |
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You are right, I am not that naive.
"I'd like to know why a bunch of angry Mormons weren't descending on that prosecutor's office DEMANDING the death penalty for Hoffman."
What good would that have done?
The Church doesn't behave like you and your anti prop 8 leftists.
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your not mad are you ?arbanes has a great rep as a scholar except for the few deluded cultists that imagine they can become god,and perhaps have their own planet . what the hell kinda name is kolob anyway ? do you really wear magic underwear? honestly ,does it chafe in hot weather ? do little mormonites give each other magic snuggies? how do you read the book of mormon with a straight face ?how can you argue that indians were somehow isrealites without a shred of evidence, archeological or genitic? how do you reconcile joe smiths 30+wives some as young as 14 and numerous adulterous affairs ,some with prostitutes, with what you are currently taught ? do you still preach blood atonement ? what about the numerous murders committed by the dannites ? were these ordered by brigham young ? did the doctrine of blood atonement play a PART IN THESE MURDERS ? did brigham young order hosea stout to murder smiths brother so he could seize control of your cult after joe smiths death? |
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"Come on, a powerful church wants a story squealched, and it gets squealched. That's the way of the world, unfortunately, and it's not limited to the LDS."
The story was in the news for along time, how would acting like rabid leftist idiots make the situation better?
"I mean, it seems you have more anger at me for making jokes about your cult than this guy who tried to destroy it from within..."
I think Hofman is a slandering murderer, I think you are a slandering coward. Both of you are apathetic agnostic atheists.
"Unless like Hinckley, you are just happy you didn't have the embarrassment on national TV for weeks... "
Uh, we get "embarrassment" on national TV for alot of things, like right now, your anti prop 8 buddies and the DRIVE BY MEDIA for example.
"Ah, the tangled web we weave, when we labor to decieve..."
That is rather ironic, coming from you Mr.DRIVE BY POSTER. |
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your not mad are you ?arbanes has a great rep as a scholar except for the few deluded cultists that imagine they can become god,and perhaps have their own planet . what the hell kinda name is kolob anyway ? do you really wear magic underwear? honestly ,does it chafe in hot weather ? do little mormonites give each other magic snuggies? how do you read the book of mormon with a straight face ?how can you argue that indians were somehow isrealites without a shred of evidence, archeological or genitic? how do you reconcile joe smiths 30+wives some as young as 14 and numerous adulterous affairs ,some with prostitutes, with what you are currently taught ? do you still preach blood atonement ? what about the numerous murders committed by the dannites ? were these ordered by brigham young ? did the doctrine of blood atonement play a PART IN THESE MURDERS ? did brigham young order hosea stout to murder smiths brother so he could seize control of your cult after joe smiths death? THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE! |
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Incoherence.
Did your feelings get hurt by some Mormons when you were a kid too?
Lay off the sauce,
pick a topic already.
Why dont you ever quote any sources that shed any light on your slander?
Stop hiding behind the bottle of Jim Beam and get coherent.
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just asking a few questions. it's only slander when it's not true. the truth will set you free . man up and answer the questions if what you believe is true ,it should not be a problem.
where is the garden of eden? do you really think you become a god? don't you really want several wives just like they had in the good old days? are people of color really cursed by god as your book teaches ? did mitts overuse of hair oil create the gas shortage by running up the price per barrel? that questions just for fun. |
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No guts?
I took you to task on your Abanes(not Arbanes)scholar.
Man up and quote some sources to your drunken stuporifous slander.
Jim Beam, Cimmarone, Jim the Carpenter-Assistant to the DRIVE BY POSTER. |
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I implore you to stop wasting your time with these guys. Please come on out of the gutter. Lurkers will come to conclusions that are incorrect. These guys aren't going to change, leave them to it. |
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I know,
I just find the irony in all of the hatred and mis-information, it's the same whether it comes from the right by those who profess a belief in Christ or the left who don't like anything about religion.
The religious right team up with leftist agnostic apathetic athiests to bash mormons during the primaries but can't seem to see the irony that these same leftists feel the same disdain for them as well, instead of trying to create an alliance with us against the left, they team up with the left to slander us.
Case and point the movie "Religulous" with Bill Maher, oh the religious right gets huffy about how their religion is depicted yet spew the same crap as Maher does about Mormons during the primaries. Irony.
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to task? you really are delusional.read the book check the footnotes and be honest. honesty is not a trait of your cult deception is . THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE |
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Gordon B. Hinckley has passed away. The new Prophet on this earth is Thomas S. Monson. Study this man. He's equally as awesome as Hinckley and the others that came before him. Anyone can be a pastor. Only one man can be a prophet. |
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We've elected Obama and our economny is tipping. Obama is green wood and not an economist. He's an experienced political social worker--grass roots networker par excellence.
Romney has a business track record of turning around sick companies. His father was a skilled executive in government and in business.
Getting into personal reasons for bashing a person's faith is using this thread to settle old scores.
Deliberately smearing Romney's religion instead of discussing his ideas about the car industry is both annoying and inappropriate.
Where is it written that all members of all faiths are always excellent human beings? People are people. Trust those who have earned your trust but don't get stuck in time and project that hatred on TH posters.
When people of all Christian faiths endeavor to follow the Savior: cudos, not criticisms, to them - whether or not all faith doctrines are identical!
We waste our intellect and our media time when we dissemble and backbite.
I am a Christian of the LDS faith and allow all of you to believe in Christ or not, as you see fit.
Meanwhile, we are all Americans and this is a time of Thanksgiving, a time to pause and reflect on our national heritage.
Expecting our US history to be perfect is on a par with expecting ourselves to be perfect. Ours is one of the few nations in history which attempts to self correct its moral and social mistakes!
The fact that Senator Obama is our president elect is a great compliment to our nation and a good indicator that we have as a culture have overcome much of our racial mistrust and offenses.
While I disagree with his governing principles, I rejoice in his opportunity to serve this nation.
Is this a great country, or what?!
Happy Thanksgiving Day.
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Jim Beam: Fortunately, his sources can be checked. If you want to see the type of "scholarly" use to which Abanes has put his quotes, feel free to click on the link below.http://www.fairlds.org/apol/onug/
ABANES: The statements you make are inaccurate. The link you provide is NOT scholarly, nor is it reliable. In fact, it is not even about a current edition of the book. The version to which this FAIR article refers has been out of print for YEARS. Moreover, the criticisms are filled with half-truths, misperceptions, faulty logic, poor reasoning, and nit-picking.
I will be posting online a new response to this material by "FAIR" (so-called). After 6 years in print, all FAIR can come up with is 27 so-called errors, most of which are utterly ridiculous and wholly misleading. Anyone who wants a copy of my response, or an alert when it is released can email me at my home site, http://abanes.com.
thank you,
R. Abanes
Reviews of my book from non-Mormon biased readers can be found at http://abanes.com/reviewsonug.html
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Are your words and attitude indicative of Mormonism in general? If so, then that in itself is a problem, IMHO. But I wish you all the best anyway. Indeed, the truth will set you free.
R. Abanes |
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