Tuesday, November 10, 2009
|
|
"If Health Care Becomes About Abortion or Any Other Issue But Freedom, We Lose"
|
|
Posted by:
Meredith Jessup at
12:15 PM
|
|
The brewing abortion debate and Dems' latest "strategy" for passing their health care overhaul is a giant red herring designed to distract attention away from the overall problem with Obamacare: its infringement on freedom. RedState's Erick Erickson has a analysis out today that rightfully cautions the GOP not to take its eye off the prize and to remember what the party should stand for in this ongoing debate. Read and take to heart, conservatives:
Let me be clear to the conservative movement and the organizations participating in the health care debate: the fight over health care is about freedom, not your ridiculous little scorecards. ...
...[F]or each issue the GOP raises to be addressed in the [health care] bill, the Democrats and a token Republican will play accommodationist as the media fawns over the bipartisan nature of each compromise. The danger is that the GOP will start with the presupposition that the health care bill will pass and work to “improve” it. The GOP must get out of that mindset. Republicans working toward destroying legislation they believe will inevitably pass will not destroy the legislation. At the end of the day, the GOP must flat out oppose the government take over of 1/6th of the American economy. Instead of clamoring for issues to be addressed, the GOP must contrast freedom with the tyranny of the legislation. ... Mandates must come out because government should not force people to purchase health insurance. The public option must come out because it will destroy competition and intentionally undermine contracts between private entities. Triggers must be abandoned because Obama will have every incentive to trigger the trigger. Payment restrictions to doctors must come out because government should not set wages for doctors. It must be a game of subtraction. After the GOP is done demanding things come out, not be ameliorated or added, there will be no bill left that the left can support. Additionally, the GOP must orchestrate a strategy to put Democrats up for election in difficult positions — offering up amendments that the Democrats cannot say no to, but that take away votes from the overall legislation once agreed to. This bill doesn’t just have a few things wrong with it, it’s a thousand pages of bad ideas that will hurt — not help — America. There are real health reforms that our country desperately needs (tort reform, interstate competition, tax equity, etc) but none of them are in this bill, and Democrats will never allow them to be. This is a showdown between freedom and socialism. The Senate Republicans and right-of-center interest groups need to stop trying to negotiate a surrender and join the fight.
This is a tremendous lesson for the Republican Party to learn and act upon. The only acceptable victory for the GOP in this debate is to defeat the legislation in defense of freedom.
|
|
...were/are a victim of another Government scheme...the "Dumbing Down of America" because your inquiry is fascinating since it has been discussed by Wax-faced Nancy and Reid for the past several weeks. Not paying attention, are you?????
Sooo, to reiterate your stupidity....Septic, a.k.a., Cesspool says: "Where in the plan are all Americans required to buy the Government Owned Insurance Plan or face an imposed fine $250 to $2,000; or go to jail for 1-5 years. Where in the plan? It is on line. Show us, Bea."
Go to the following site, sections cited: wttp://biggovernment.com/2009/11/06/committee-confirms-comply-with-pelosi-care-or-go-to-jail/
And as to your friend's illness vs. your example of his discussion w/his Doctor TODAY (w/private insurance)....WHAT THE HECK does today's counseling as to pancreatic cancer (a heinously, terminal disease), w/the Doctor of your choice, have to do with what will occur when Socialized Obamacare is implemented 3-4 years hence????? Dope!!!!
Please do not provide examples of today's health activities and personal counciling w/the Doctor of your choice and family vs. what will occur 3-4 years hence.
See below a WSJ article on Rationing, which is in essence, addresses the elderly, disabled, and chronically ill. Do not address me with your idiotic examples from TODAY. Talk to me 3-4 years hence, post this plan's implementation.
If it is such a great plan why is it that no Senator or Congressperson would even remotely consider buying it for themselves and/or their families.....under any circumstances.
Wax-face Nancy or Reid wouldn't touch this plan w/a ten foot poll!!!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702038632045743 44900152168372.html
If you are getting paid for your drivel, please be honorable and research your challenges. |
|
|
lets take a tax holiday for a couple of years and see if they can pay for it . if just 10% did not pay,filed numerous extensions just slowed the tax income down it would be a disaster. i'm debt free enough to close my business and freelance just enough to pay household bills and basic expenses and pay no tax and why should i bust as$ when i can't keep it anyway |
|
Ditto on what Baradiel said.
Although I still oppose the bill due to the individual mandate, the public option, and ballooning costs, it would be inappropriate if I did not at least tip my hat to Bart Stupak. Thank you sir for your sincerity in standing up for the unborn. |
|
It is also about freedom. Freedom to live.
Abortion is a clear violation of the fifth ammendment.
Abortion and the health care bill are both equally oppressive. |
|
I'm wrong about how rich women have always been able to have abortions, is that what you are saying? That calling them by other medical terms hides the conduct? That the morning after pill eliminates the need for the woman to ever know if she actually conceived?
Now Bea, how does the health plan that the Hous plan negate your choices? Implement rationing (any different than how insurers ration care now)? Where in the plan does the government impose actuarial limits rather than using them the way my dear friend just had to do...husband is 72, fast increasing dementia, advanced pancreatic cancer. Doctor sat them down with actuarial numbers....cost of chemo, prognosis, cost of radiation, prognosis, impact of treatments on the dementia, prognosis. They decided based on those factors. Where does this health plan say that anyone besides doctor and patient will do that still?
Where in the plan are all Americans required to buy the Government Owned Insurance Plan or face an imposed fine $250 to $2,000; or go to jail for 1-5 years. Where in the plan? It is on line. Show us, Bea.
You won't because you cannot. |
|
....of Meredith's headline: "If Health Care Becomes About Abortion or Any Other Issue But Freedom, We Lose".
However, it is my belief that ANY "imposed" GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE plan which will:
1) Negate choice;
2) Impliment rationing;
3) Implement actuarial charts relating statistical studies as to "risk vs. life expectancy", or the more vulgar "cost to cure vs. the calculated, remaining life" of each individual when considering: his/her age; chronic disease; disabilities, etc.
4) Negate Constitutional FREEDOMS: force all Americans to purchase the Government Owned Insurance Plan (zero choice); or face an imposed fine $250 to $2,000; or go to jai for 1-5 years.
The above are just a few of the more moderate reasons that Socialized Health Care is not about helping Americans who are without coverage: IT IS ABOUT GLEANING POWER; IT IS ABOUT GLEANING CONTROL; IT IS ABOUT ENSLAVING AMERICANS IN PERPETUITY; IT IS ABOUT REDISTRIBUTION!!!
Sooooo, for me vs. my rather simplistic rationale; it is NOT RELEVANT what ANCILLARY issue IS OR IS NOT "IN OR OUT" OF THIS PLAN. The PLAN itself, with zero ancillary issues involved ROBS US OF OUR FREEDOM AND SHREDS THE US CONSTITUTION. THE PLAN IS THE ENEMY OF FREEDOM!
I advise all Americans, regardless of their political affiliation, NOT to permit the destruction of the US Constitution and our FREEDOM/LIBERTY. If you foolishly construe that this can be remedied, AFTER THE FACT, you are very, very mistaken. Think FREEDOM and DO NOT LET IT SLIP AWAY. I implore YOU TO THINK and bone up on WWII History and the evolution thereof. Note the naive thought processes of the multiple EU populous. SAD, VERY SAD! |
|
|
The real question is this: what are you going to have to do for the government to make sure you keep GETTING health care? |
|
Erick Erickson hit the nail on the head. This is about our freedom. This is about total war and total victory.
Only an opposition based on *principle* can defeat this bill. Ayn Rand explained this. When you quibble over technicalities, you cede the basic moral premise behind the issue to your enemy, who then feels emboldened to assert that *he* is the one in the right. Outsiders will watch this and assume that the one acting morally assured is the one in the right--after all, even his opponents are not arguing his basic premise--and they will start talking in your enemy's terms. Your enemy now has the momentum and will then escalate his efforts while you are left defending and retreating.
Here, this will take the form that Erickson suggests, with liberals throwing little bones at us while they engulf the health care carcass.
The House bill passage was a small setback, and it was derailed by a small faction pursuing its own agenda at the expense of our freedom, and that never should have happened. But the fight is now in the Senate, and if the GOP follows Erickson's proposed strategy, they will be completely victorious. This is no time to be timid or faint of heart. They must attack. I smell blood here.
The base must help them. If we reinforce their attacks and, at the same time, focus on persuading individual Blue Dogs who are vulnerable to re-election, we can get at least one of them to stand with the filibuster. And we only need one to win. |
|
gives legitimacy to the debate simply by trying to influence the particulars of the legislation. Thoreau writes,
"Those who, while they disapprove of the character and measures of a government, yield to it their allegiance and support are undoubtedly its most conscientious supporters, and so frequently the most serious obstacles to reform.
"I do not hesitate to say, that those who call themselves Abolitionists should at once effectually withdraw their support, both in person and property, from the government of Massachusetts, and not wait till they constitute a majority of one, before they suffer the right to prevail through them. I think that it is enough if they have God on their side, without waiting for that other one. Moreover, any man more right than his neighbors constitutes a majority of one already."
http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html
Erikson is correct. This is about Liberty v Tyranny. |
|
|
I am afraid that most do not realize that you are right. This is nothing about abortion or health care. This is more about control, more about the government controlling your most important asset your health. The government will decide who lives and who dies. They will be able to take more and more of your money and make you more and more dependent on them. We are going down a dangerous path and it certainly has nothing to do with abortion that is for sure. |
|
why would i do that when the septic one fills its posts with lies and innuendo. |
|
is ALL about. NOT abortion. That is a distracting sidebar that can be used, as Red State says, to look like compromise, working-together, yamma-damma-doooo. It's a feint. It's camouflage and distraction.
This health Care Pozi Shipwreck is about the Vast Diminishment of American Liberty.
____________________________________
12:55..Wild (Snicker)Guess: A pluperfect example of Gov't schools. IF only the pathetic stooge were joking! |
|
most rich women can get 'abortions' and always did, even before Roe. They were always called D&C's and done for 'medical' reasons, endometrial polyps, endometriosis, fibroid tumors. Trust me, Eddie, lots and lots of these procedures are done annually and are not even classified as abortions. Have been for years.
The morning after pill allows a woman who doesn't even know if she's conceived to eliminate the possibility. Again, not an abortion.
Unless you favor banning all abortions, even for rape victims (this is where you lose a lot of support, by the way), you pick and choose. Why should the woman's life, by the way, be more important than the fetus', right? Gosh, a mom of 4 finds out that continuing the pregnancy will increase her chances of a stroke, so she needs to abort, but you folks say no. So four motherless kids to save one 'pre-born'.
If either side were rational, this would not even be an issue.
If you are so worried, by the way, that Islam is telling people how to live, worry more that Pelosi spoke to the Vatican before the health care vote. Why is that? |
|
what is in the 2,000 + pages of the law that will dictate your medical and insurance coverage.
what an idea, that 2,000+ pages of beaucratize will have NO IMPACT on peoples' freedoms.
how do these leftists come up with these comments?
to say leftists live in Alice's Wonderland is a vast understatement.
they make the Queen of Hearts look reasonable. |
|
"the fight over health care is about freedom, not your ridiculous little scorecards."
If and when national health care is passed, what freedom(s) will I lose? What is it that I can do today that will be forbidden in the future? |
|
There was recently an article which said the Army for the first time was having a very difficult time finding recruits who are qualified. The top reasons were obesity, illiteracy, and lastly, criminal records!
So, the answer is: yes, fellow citizens are unable to reason on their own behalf.
This is how the politicians get to stay in power for life! |
|
|
|
dem health bill will benefit. the first are totalitarians. it benefits them by increasing the size and power of government. it is just another step on the way to depriving God-given rights to all human beings.
the second, is lawyers. with two thousand pages of ill-thought, ill-prepared beaucratize, it is a lawyer's paradise.
just imagine what this catastrophe of a bill will require in additional courts and lawyers to litigate what it actually means.
remember also, that judges are the most corrupt class of people in our society. do these people really want to put themselves and their futures in the hands of the most corrupt group in our society? |
|
is called many things. A D&C. Polyp removal. That's all that's going to happen. The hysteria will stop. Doctors will simply find a reason to evacuate the uterus. Morning after pill will not even let the woman know if she ever conceived.
Technology will make it harder for anti-choice types to make their argument. Ironically, technology will also limit the number of abortions over time. Roe is triggered by 'viability'. The earlier fetuses are viable, Roe will limit the right to abort the fetus.
Time passes. Problems resolve. And conservative women, tons of them, get abortions every year. |
|
the beaucracy exceeded individuals in compassion and generosity? |
|
program you would consider efficient and effective? |
|
run program saved the taxpayers' monies? |
|
believe the government cares more about their medical care and health insurance than they themselves care come from?
has our education system really fallen so low or become so propaganda oriented that our fellow citizens can no longer reason even on their own behalf? |
|
|
|