Tuesday, April 24, 2007
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Contemptible
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Posted by:
Dean Barnett at
1:56 PM
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Harry Reid has said he will not believe David Petraeus if Petraeus reports progress in Iraq as he’s expected to do. In other words, in addition to his declaration of defeat last week, Reid has now in essence called General Petraeus a liar. Let us not forget that this is the same senator who nearly clucked with joy over the prospect of gaining additional Senate seats because the situation in Iraq would be less than satisfactory when the next election season rolls around.
Click over and watch the video. I guarantee it will anger the blood.
Compliments? Complaints? Contact me at Soxblog@aol.com
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RIP, Pat Tillman. You are a true hero among many in this war.
I think Churchill said that war is just a series of catastrophies with a winner and a loser at the end.
It is also fought by soldiers and directed by generals, who are, like civilians, human, and thus prone to mistakes.
Let's give General Petraeus everything he needs now, and let the chips fall where they may. After all, an idiot with a bomb strapped to his car that successfully detonates represents an military victory for the terrorists only in the eyes of the MSM and the terrorists themselves (as well as some who have posted here). |
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»»my statistics which show rising violence levels.««
This is war. It is not a constant high, rather a series of highs and lows.
I wonder what you would have said during WWII; we'd be speaking German and Japanese right now. |
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I am coming to the feeling that, maybe, we need for the Dems to take over next time, that we need to see what it will be like to be the easy focus of terrorists under Dem rule.
Maybe this American experiment has to break in order for us to fix it right proper, to run it into the ground so we can get a new one that looks like America looked at one time.
We are headed for Civil War if this doesn't stop.
Sometimes, that's what it takes to recover, to get this train, derailed by DemocRATS, back on the tracks. |
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Haven't we come to expect this crap from the terrorist-friendly Dems? This isn't a surprise, people. However, Barnett is correct; it IS contemptible. Even below contemptible.
Our focus, of course, needs to be the election next year; and we need to remember and keep people reminded of the fact that these Dems are the lowest form of political life in these parts for their damage to America in these times of war.
Keep in your mind and the minds of others how low Dems stoop with their namecalling and other insults as subs for honest discussion.
Remember the Dems next year, people! |
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The Tillman family seem to have forgotten somewhere along the line that this nation is at war.
That it wasn't just their son Pat at war.
But that it's the entire nation.
Here's another little fact from history, concerning Jimmy Doolittle, he who led the suicide raid on Tokyo after Pearl Harbour.
Doolittle was subsequently promoted. And after we Overlord went forward, our troops were bottled up in the Hedgerow country of Normandy. We were making half an acre of progress a day, if that, and we were well and truly stuck.
Our Army Air Corps was called in to provide air support to enable our forces to get through. This wasn't a matter of mere tactical air support, {fighter strafes, fighter bomber attacks}. No, this was STRATEGIC air support, 2 and 4 engine bombers.
PREVIOUS episodes of such support dictated that the bomber stream fly PARALLEL to the front line, NOT PERPINDICULAR. Because perpendicular raids frequently resulted in bomb falls "shorting" the target, which meant those bombs that fell "short" fell on our own forces.
The operational plan specified that the raid that Doolittle led in Normandy would go in PARALLEL to the front.
But he, determined, headstrong, convinced of the accuracy of his strike force, LED THE RAID PERPINDICULAR to the front.
Many, many bombers "shorted" their bomb loads on our own troops.
THOUSANDS were killed.
The Army brass was absolutely outraged and demanded Doolittle's head on a silver platter.
The matter was so heated, and since Doolittle was so famous, that Ike kicked the whole matter upstairs to Marshall. Who was equally appalled by the way.
So what happened?
How many of you even heard of this story?
The Army and the Air Corps covered up what happened.
Doolittle's reputation before the public was never tarnished.
Marshall let the whole thing die.
AND BEFORE ANYONE HERE denounces me, you should all know, my family has long been at the tip of America's spear.
And we've sustained losses through such blunders as I've now related for you.
My own father, because of such blunders, was the sole surviving son.
And yet he was deployed to Korea.
His sisters, concerned for the family line, pleaded with the government that since he was the sole surviving son, he be exempted from service in Korea. But since my father's parents were dead, they were told that the exemption for sole surviving sons only applies when the parents are alive.
Since the parents were dead, the exemption didn't obtain, so he stayed in Korea.
Where he spent months behind enemy lines, calling in air strikes and off shore bombardment on enemy troop concentrations, supplies and other worthwhile targets.
Did my Aunts hold press conferences?
Did they demand an inquiry into such a rather cold blooded application of policy?
The fact that the Tillmans wanted to know what happened to their son is natural, and not unusual.
The fact that they pushed for knowledge that only would hurt them, the fact that they besmirched the careers of people only looking out for their best interest, and that of their son, reflects no credit upon them.
It's as I said earlier.
THE ONLY THING they managed to accomplish was surround the memory of their son, who was an incredibly brave and honourable man, the only thing they did was surround his memory with a black, toxic and political cloud.
THAT'S IT.
The Army and the Marines ALREADY take the utmost in precautions to prevent such blue on blue incidents.
There's nothing more they can do.
To do more, would be to blunt the natural aggressiveness of America's combat infantrymen. It would be to put at risk those are unable to respond rapidly to fire because of too constrictive a rule of engagement.
MEN HAVE ALREADY died because of such constrictions, because of burdensome rules of engagement.
But those family members don't get the media coverage of the Tillmans.
Those family members don't get the media juice that's saved for the Tillmans, because the Tillman incident reflects poorly on a Pentagon that was administered by Rumsfeld.
The media hyped the Tillman episode to tarnish Rumsfeld, and to erode the credibility of this White House.
And the Tillman family let themselves be used in that way.
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The Democrat Party is now officially fully invested in its own nation's defeat.
The unilateral withdrawal of American troops from Iraq is surrender. Just another word for defeat. Our defeat is the Democrat Party's gain. They win in 2008 if they can bring about a loss in the first stop in the War on Terror, and blame it on the Republicans. A successful outcome in Iraq before the 2008 elections will bring about the defeat of the Democrat Party's plan to re-take the White House. It may also spell the end to their short-lived reign in Congress, as most of the Blue Dog Democrats haven't fulfilled their campaign promises that the American people took to heart. They lied.
A failure to secure Iraq in the form of unilateral withdrawal and surrender by the Bush Administration, and a sectarian genocidal bloodbath they can pin on Bush, is the only way the Democrats can extend their political win streak to two straight elections.
They are in desperate times. They obviously feel that desperate times call for desperate measures. This is a sad state of affairs when one major Party is in a position of having to undermine their own military during wartime in order to win elections.
Please, someone remind me, at what point does this become treason? |
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Thanks Captain Cut-N-Paste |
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Thanks BD, very well said! Defeat and withdrawl is simply not an option. Do any of you really think that Iraq will not be completely run over by Iran or AQ if we just up and leave? Where will this leave us? In a much worse position than we are now. The terrorists are not going to say, "oh whew the Americans left now we can go back to business as usual." They will come after us folks!
Granted, things have not gone well, mistakes and misjudgements have been made. But quitting and going home is not an option.
Also, Reid and Pelosi's actions and commets recently I believe border on treason and I just wish someone with some national exposure would say something to that effect. Unbelieveable that they would say and do these things when we are at war! |
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"neo-cons", "Lies", blah blah blah.
In his confirmation hearing, General Petraeus made clear what he intended to do if confirmed - implement a implement a counter-insurgency strategy to secure Baghdad, and that it would be summer 2007 before he'd have enough troops in place to fully implement the strategy. Oh, and he also told the Senate he'd level with them if it wasn't working.
General Petraeus was confirmed by the Senate without a single vote being cast against confirmation - no, not even by military genius Harry Reid.
Now we see Democrats amazed and disturbed that casualties have increased over the past few months (I guess they believed the enemy to simply surrender after Petraeus was confirmed), take it as a sign that counter-insurgency should be abandoned before General Petraeus even gets the troops he said he needed in place - - and repeat their same old mantras (vigorously).
While you keep picking at the past, you ignore the future: what will be the likely result if we adopt your strategy and quit?
It'd really be fun to read your case that quitting in Iraq will make everything all better.
Oh, and if you're going to pitch the "political solution" argument, tell me:
When was the last time Harry Reid had a winning hand in a legislative battle and decided that, rather than claim his victory, he'd compromise with the Republicans?
People don't give up "victory" for "compromise," they compromise because they fear continuing the fight will lead to their defeat.
Based on their comments, here's the Democrat position on "winning" in Iraq:
First: the Iraqi government is not making enough concessions to our enemies.
Second: we should put the pressure on the Iraqi government by letting it know our patience is growing thin and we're going to leave the country soon no matter what.
Third: whether our enemies are even interested in or capable of agreeing to a political solution is irrelevant.
We've seen this negotiating formula (100% pressure on our ally to make concessions without any consideration whatsoever of the conduct of the other parties). It doesn't work - though for some reason Democrats still pat themselves on the back for their devotion to diplomacy, etc.
The actions of Reid and his party in Congress do nothing to bring about "peace" - why would they?
Our enemy is indifferent to its casualties.
Our enemy considers us weak & inferior and believes with all its heart we will abandon the field to them if it simply endures.
And every day, our enemy sees another statement, another action by one of our political parties which reinforces their impressions of us.
Why in the world would they accept 1/2 a loaf from us today when you'll gladly give them the whole loaf in a year? |
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I’ve reserved my opinion on this subject until just now. I think the time has come for us to call the behavior and demeanor of leading Democrats exactly what it is. I’m so angry at these demagogues, I could spit!
It’s one thing to oppose an Administration. It’s entirely another to use hindsight as a political weapon to undermine the Administration’s conduct of the current ongoing war simply because one does not agree with its premises.
It’s one thing to criticize an Administration for a lack of progress. It’s entirely another to ignore the progress and report only failures, of which there are many in any war situation, all in the name of political opportunism.
It’s one thing to offer constructive criticism of an ongoing war and its strategy. It’s entirely another to have no particular remedy in mind, only use the benefit of hindsight to weaken your own Administration.
It’s one thing to play this out in private, so the enemy does not hear our strategy and unnecessary infighting over the loudspeaker of an unsympathetic domestic media. It’s entirely another to ignorantly cue the enemy as to what will ultimately be their most effective strategy against us.
It’s one thing to do everything in one’s power to convince the Administration to change its tactics. It’s entirely another thing to undermine one’s own Administration’s conduct of a war, carry out political homicide of the opposing Party, putting one’s own troops in harm’s way, all while simultaneously assisting our enemy to defeat one’s own military.
And it’s one thing to have the stones to cut off funding, which is the only Congressional oversight of wartime efforts. It’s entirely another to constantly threaten the act when there is no real intention to carry it out, merely to intentionally distract and preoccupy the Administration from this critical task and bully them into surrender at what could be the most critical point in the war.
Democrats are engaged in a coordinated effort to undermine our Administration, our military operations, and the public’s support for the War on Terror, claiming it’s not the danger the Republicans say it is. At the same time, they are somewhat unwittingly assisting the enemy in formulating precisely the plan that will render said enemy the victor in this war, simply by waiting us out. At the same time, their motive for all of this is to appease their leftist base, and the leftist secular governments of Europe, and to discredit our decision to go to war against Radical Islam in the first place so they can win the next Presidential Election. NONE OF THIS IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Democrats are doing everything in their power to weaken their own Administration, and strengthen the enemy’s resolve. At the very least, this is involuntary treason. I can’t bring myself to think of what this may be at worst.
Just exactly how could it possibly be that intentional actions on the part of Democrats to weaken the Bush Administration and strengthen our enemy are NOT treason? Can anyone explain this?
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1. funny how when small things don't work when normal Americans try them you shriek that we should quit, reform, add more laws, run away, stop etc. but when your stupid programs are proven time and again not to work (sex education, midnight basketball, public education) you insist that MORE of the same is needed, more effort and more money.
2. please don't ever tell us you are compassionate ever again. After leaving the Afghanis and Iraquis and future friends to die because you want to win an election - we don't believe you. |
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...when Harry Reid says, "we have lost...", maybe he was referring to, "we democrats"(?) If that’s the case, I say GREAT! Get out of the way and let us win this war!!! |
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no, but I can see how you interpret that.
and your interpretation is what I have aluded to in the above posts.
the war has had its problems, but it is just and the correct war to be fighting. |
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We Republicans dug ourselves a pretty deep hole from 2004-06, but the Democrats are giving us a lifeline, just by being their usual stupid selves.
I said before that the Dems high point was in January and was ridiculed, but it's coming to pass. Pelosi's disaster of a visit to Syria - which was completely avoidable, Reid's recalcitrance on war funding, the Dems' backsliding on ethics and pork spending barely four months into their term. It's all adding up. Congress' approval rating keeps dropping every month.
The military blogs and the objective observers are noticing the surge is working, and it's not even complete.
Then we've got the rank and file Democrats thinking they've already got 2008 locked up. Pride comes before a... what? So Reid's solution is to plug his ears and pretend he doesn't hear anything that conflicts with his perception of the world (while accusing Bush of living in a bubble). The Democrats really are the best thing to ever happen to the Republican Party.
Keep watching. It's going to be a very interesting summer. If the Republicans can keep from eating their own, it'll be a much different poltical dynamic as we head into 2008. |
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If you actually read liberal and centrist websites, you'll find that most commentators give Petraeus a considerable amount of credit as a professional soldier. That doesn't mean anybody feels an obligation to assume that a serving General will tell the truth to Congress or the Press, however. After all, if you think that, the next thing you'll do is believe a diplomat.
I think that the most that can be hoped from Petraeus is a holding action that keeps things from getting too much worse before Bush goes and a reasonable leader gets us out of the trap. We just don't have enough troops to win an insurgency, and even Petraeus has given up on the prospects of the Iraqis doing the fighting for us. Things will get worse and get better from time to time, but there is precisely zero prospect of the American public putting up with ten or fifteen years of occupation. And we shouldn't put up with it. It simply isn't worth the price. |
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Briggsy, as I recall from Saving Private Ryan, Miller's quote was a classic foreshadowing device: Miller's sarcastic comment that "this is an
excellent mission, with an extremely valuable objective, worthy of my best efforts" (that is, the mission to save Private Ryan) turned out to be THE ultimate message of the movie. Likewise, I, your TownHall compatriot, urge you likewise as to the war in Iraq. |
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"We've been lied to for four years about "progress" in the Shrub's war and about numerous details of that war. There's very little chance the lies will end today. Senators have better things to do than be lied to. So does everyone else."
no we have not |
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again you do not know, the men I talk about in my post above completely understood what the reality was and what their job was. They would act out the part as in the movie and would do it with pride. They are not being coerced into doing it or fooled, they do it by decision and it will continue to be done that way. Until someone lives with the military and knows the people that make the military they will not understand what it is all about.
They will sit around drinking beer and complaining about their CO or LT or SGT and acknowledge the politicals have their head up their arses, but when called to duty they will do what they are trained to do and they will do it well.
because they choose to do it and because they are warriors. |
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I grew up a military brat, albeit the Canadian military.
And while my Dad was stationed in Europe I had the opportunity the meet and get to know some men who served in the 1RCHA, RCD and Royal 22nd Regiment.
I KNOW, DOWN TO MY DEEPEST BEING that these men would have fought any enemy of freedom in the manner that Tillman did. It is 30 years later but my memories of the men that I met and partied with as a teenager are true and I will stand by it until the day I die.
But for the circumstances of life I would have followed my co-members of the RCD Cadet Corps into the regular force and would have made my family proud on the battle field as my grandfather did in WW I and my mothers father did in WW II.
It sickens me now to hear my sister describe the PC disease that is now spreading throughout the Canadian Armed Forces.
The double edge sword of the Military and War is that it is best fought by the young who believe that they will not be killed and will not make a mistake. The young have not yet learned what they will miss if they die in war and therefore will fight much better than I can, now, as a 44 year old with three children. If my son decides to enlist I will stand with him in all he decides to do.
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How about Reid being against partial birth abortion before he was against Sam Alito's decision to uphold the law Reid voted in favor of. The incredible Harry Reid speaks!
I will rely on General Petraeus--thank you very much.
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Of this thread, and one the right wing cannot convincingly answer, is the first one.
We've been lied to for four years about "progress" in the Shrub's war and about numerous details of that war. There's very little chance the lies will end today. Senators have better things to do than be lied to. So does everyone else.
Petraeus is, in the end, just another hack with stars on his shoulders, and will go the way of Abizaid and Casey. |
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There are no such persons, "Reiben" and "Miller." |
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nicely done.
you are not completely lost after all. ;-) |
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My earlier comments were not "contemptible," they were simply the facts.
Pat Tillman did not enlist to hinder the war effort.
And I've no doubt that he would be privately appalled by the way his death has been manipulated by the defeatists in our midst.
Throughout our history, members of the military have shielded families from the full details surrounding the deaths of their loved ones.
There's nothing contemptible about that.
And only a lunatic would suggest as much.
Or someone clearly clueless about the great lengths that many a service member went to, all in the attempt to prevent additional and needless pain being inflicted upon a family who just learned their son was dead.
The military was looking out for the Tillman family, the Army and the war effort. They were looking out for the family when they tried to shield them from the additional pain they would have to endure if they knew the specifics of his death. If they knew how unintentional blunders led to the death of one of their own.
The military acted in this manner as they always did, and what's more, they acted as the nation always expected them to act.
But now?
But now?
Now there's some weird new idea afoot. And that is that every single detail, no matter how demeaning, must be disclosed, otherwise, COVERUP! Otherwise, GOVERNMENT LIES! Otherwise, administration DECEPTION!
It's a bizarre notion.
And completely ahistorical.
If a soldier defecated in his uniform before he died, should that be disclosed?
If a soldier pissed his pants in fear before his death, should that too, be known?
If a soldier blundered, and that blunder led to his death and those of some of his squad mates, should that too, be disclosed?
Please explain to me how that knowledge makes the death of a son easier to endure?
If a young commissioned officer makes a bad blunder when calling in an air strike, and inadvertently calls in the strike on his own men, {which has happened many a time by the way...}, should that too be disclosed?
Should the officer's family be informed? What about the men in his command, should their families too, be told the whole sad story?
Of course the very notion is utterly ridiculous.
The Rangers that fired on Tillman's position were responding to the muzzle flashes.
They were being aggressive. They were trying to suppress enemy fire.
They weren't trying to kill Tillman. They were trying to destroy terror loving dirtballs. That's what they were doing.
And they're probably more grief stricken over the thing than anyone else.
The fact that the Army tried to conceal the facts around his death, {or as the truther types say, tried to "cover it up"} means nothing, absolutely nothing.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last.
The military has long had a way of dealing with such nightmares. And that's by trying to tell the family a portion of the truth. Here, they told the family that he died heroically.
Well, didn't he?
Was that a "lie?"
Was that a "cover-up?"
Isn't that the God's honest truth. Tillman immediately responded to an enemy attack upon the men in his unit. By doing so, he placed himself in a position where he could put the enemy under fire, but he also placed himself in a position where he could be confused for the enemy, and be fired on as well.
The Army tries its best to prevent such occurrences, as do the Marines.
But when you have young men, excited, nervous, fearful and anxious, tossing around loads of lead in the dark, such incidents are BOUND to occur.
That's a sad feature of the fortunes of war.
And Pat Tillman understood that.
And he accepted the risks. And that's why we honour him. And always will.
His family have become slightly unhinged.
And for what?
What was the details of his death that warranted all of these inquiries and wild accusations?
He was killed in a skirmish with the enemy.
How many such men have died in similar skirmishes with the enemies of the United States?
And under the same circumstances as Pat Tillman?
These details that the family INSISTED be disclosed to them hasn't helped them come to terms with their son's death.
This hasn't helped them.
If anything, it's harmed them. They've only deepened the wound by their morbid fixation on details that they were better off not knowing.
And America's military KNEW that those details would only add to their pain.
And yet the military, trying to shield the family, has been made the heavy in this drama.
It's bizarre, absolutely bizarre.
THE ONLY THING that the Tillman family has succeeded in accomplishing is attaching a black, toxic cloud to the memory of their incredible son. Who was an honourable man.
Is that what they wanted?
Is that how they want their son recalled.
His deeds have been forgotten, all because of a morbid quest for details that the nation was better off not knowing.
That's the ONLY thing that's resulted from this whole drama.
No one can say the Army is taking additional measures to prevent such occurrences in the future, for they're already doing everything they can now. If anything, they might be erring on the side of caution.
They might be positively risking themselves all in the attempt to avoid blue on blue incidents.
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the very thought of Cheney with beer in one hand and a gun in the other and scowl makes me quiver - now I know how that poor lawyer bloke of his felt in that hunting "accident" that day! I am sure Reid is in his last throes of fearlessness here.. |
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ANN ARBOR, MI ? The Thomas More Law Center today announced that it will request the Secretary of Navy to investigate allegations of improper and unconstitutional interrogation methods employed by Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) agents against Marine witnesses. Law Center attorneys obtained the information during interviews of several key Haditha witnesses.
The Thomas More Law Center, a Christian legal advocacy group based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, is representing Marine Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, who is charged with failing to investigate and report 15 Iraqi civilian deaths in connection with a Marine response to a terrorist ambush that occurred in Haditha, Iraq on November 19, 2005.
Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Law Center, commented, ?There are disturbing reports that American servicemen were treated like POWs by their own government. In fact, more concern has been shown toward the treatment of Iraqi prisoners than towards our Marines. An investigation of these allegations is in order. ?
According to Marine witnesses, in some cases interrogations lasted up to 18 hours. During prolonged questioning sessions, Marines were not allowed to eat, drink, or use the bathroom. In some cases, Marines were kept in segregated rooms of an old Iraqi dam that were damp, dark, and ?dungeon like.? These interrogation sessions occurred while the Marines were still involved in combat operations in Haditha, a hostile insurgent city.
Many witnesses reported that the questioning was accusatorial, confrontational, and at times insulting. One officer stated that agents yelled and threw things at him during his questioning. Witnesses believed that the agents had already concluded that there was wrongdoing and were not interested in information that would tend to exonerate the Marines. One witness stated that it was his perception that the NCIS agents had an agenda?they were going after the officers in the battalion.
Witness interviews revealed that Marines in Iraq raised concerns about the NCIS interrogation techniques immediately upon receiving reports from the Marines who were questioned. One senior officer from the battalion stated that when he brought these allegations to the attention of the senior NCIS agent in Iraq at the time, the agent ?blew him off completely.?
Recent news stories corroborate the allegations of mistreatment on the part of NCIS agents. According to a North County Times article, in some cases NCIS agents refused to provide attorneys for suspects who asked for them. The article reported that ?[s]ome of the interrogations that took place in Iraq before the regiment returned to Camp Pendleton in April took place over as long as 12 hours . . . and the suspects were not allowed to take bathroom breaks. Instead, they were given bottles to use to relieve themselves.? The article noted that ?[t]he treatment of the suspects was so bad that at least two officers who were not a direct part of the investigation complained to their superiors.?
These latest revelations add to the increasing difficulties facing prosecutors. From the beginning, the case has been fraught with legal problems and inappropriate pre-trial publicity, which has prejudiced the ability of the charged Marines to obtain a fair trial. In fact, Air Force Lt. General Thomas McInerney, a 35-year veteran of the Air Force and former Joint Force Commander, has already publicly stated that all charges against the Marines should be dismissed because the Marines could not get a fair trial as a result of undue command influence. McInerney was referring to the outrageous statements of Pennsylvania Congressman John Murtha?statements that were made before the investigation even concluded. Murtha declared that the Marines had committed ?cold-blooded? murder of civilians in Haditha on November 19, 2005 and that the officers were covering it up.
Thompson concluded, ?This entire investigation has been nothing but a political witch- hunt instigated by insurgent propaganda operatives, anti-war media, and anti-war politicians. The government has spared no expense seeking to find wrongdoing on the part of our hard-fighting Marines. They should spend like resources investigating these serious allegations of investigatory misconduct. Our servicemen deserve as much.?
The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through education, litigation, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization. You may reach the Thomas More Law Center at (734) 827-2001 or visit our website at http://www.thomasmore.org.
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Part of being a dhimmi is making the calculation that it's just too hazardous to take on muslims.
Part of being a dhimmi is concluding that it's more trouble than it's worth.
Once that conclusion is reached, then the creature becomes a dhimmi. A dhimmi is simply trying to find some quiet portion of his neighborhood to live out his little, unambitious squalid existence.
It's a rather squalid site.
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Hey Captain,
Why not bare your mighty warrior soul and tell us who you REALLY are?
Name and location would be nice, too, or are you only courageous enough to post anonymously?
As you know, this is my FOURTH request. Can't you--just this once-- summon up the guts to answer? What are you so afraid of?
At this point, I can only conclude that you are not a marine but simply a coward and a fraud.
One more thing: When are you going to stop using that Hoar quote that another reader utterly discredited?
Bruce Sherman
Oakland, Oregon |
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At what point can it be said that those of us who don't think this war is worth the cost shouldn't be called dhimmis or "dims" or traitors or what have you?
Or when using the term "neo-con" shows that you're secretly a raging anti-Semite who reads Chompsky religiously in between bowing deeply toward Islamicists?
Those of us against this war don't hate America or spit at American soldiers. It is precisely our love of America that motivates opposition to a war you only stubbornly cling to for fear of being labeled wrong.
I am not a traitor for being against the Iraq War. You so-called patriots are weak men for using the word so easily.
DU
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At least one of them speaks out against Reid. It's always the same guy with the Cojones.
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If the world can't help the people of Iraq they have zero moral authority. I find it funny when people talk about protecting the sovereignty of countries like Iraq. The only sovereignty being protected is that of Saddam, extremists, dictators and the like.
70-80% of Iraqis (men, women and children hand in hand) braved possible violence and voted...the worlds response was...it is too violent to help...HUH? The hypocrisy is too great to understand.
Iraq like no other country was in the position to be lead down the path to freedom...cowardice, apathy and racism laid a heavy road block on the journey to a better world. |
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do not necessarily imply rising wide-spread violence. A very populated region can sustain several casualties, when other areas, previously riddled with violence, are controlled. And, if a large landmass is variably populated, then a casualty report may lead to an erroneous conclusion, right?
As with most complex issues, a firm position really can't be substantiated with a statistical analysis of a single variable.
This is stipulating to the idea that casualties decide whether an effort is just, and I would argue they do not (reference: Normandy).
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Reid is just following his BASE in Kos, Move-on and Code Pink. They hate America every time our military is used to actually do things like killing the enemies of America!! Pat Tillman is a hero but it has nothing to do with the reality of the deadliness of Islamofascism in Iraq, Iran, in Palestine and in 56 nations round the globe. We are in a world war whether the Left and the Quislings , Tokyo Rose's and Lord Hee Haws know it or not. The liberals always blame America and now even if we stop the advance of the Islamos including the Syrians, the Iranians, the thugs creeping in from all the ME nations with jihadist mentalities, the Left will still cry out, corruption, surrender, America is evil and only liberals know how to diplomatically put us in even a worse shape !! To them, the UN and the French are the examples of dealing with evil. And Islamofascism is evil whether Harry, San FranNan or any of the lefty loons believe it or not. |
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Your question to me:
"VOR: where do you get all your information about the violence levels increasing? I read several sources daily--most are direct military blogs--and they do not support your position."
I just provided you with the source of my statistics which show rising violence levels. Not sure how else you would measure them. |
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Do you mean to say that your entire position is based on numbers of casualties?
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He doesn't even bother to hide it anymore. He glories in his cowardice and treason. Instead of being spit on by the whole country, he'll likely win.
This country so richly deserves what is coming. We will have done it to ourselves. I just hope the Harry Reids survive long enough to see what they have done although they'll still be blaming W for it all. |
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My husband is not a child, he is a 24 year old MAN serving in the Navy. I'm sick of hearing people on this post, from the Congress and whoever else, describe the military as children. I honestly believe all of the "people" who say bring our children, oops I mean troops home, do not give a da_n about the troops. The insincerity is so obvious, so do me a favor, stop using my husband for your political points.
P.S. Harry Reid is indefensible. |
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Listening to Sen Reid's conclusion that "the facts" show "the situation in Iraq is not getting better" and prejudging what the commander on the ground will tell him, when that commander promised the Senate that he would gives his personal opinion and not some Administration slant, is just shocking to me.
The only possible conclusion for me is that since they have made the political decision to call for a pullout, then any facts that would make that the wrong decision must be ignored or discounted. I really find it hard to believe that Democrats are essentially boycotting Gen. Petraeus. |
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What IS the deal?
Why is it that Pelosi goes on her foreign affairs trip, gets criticized, then is right back in the face of the media explaining herself (ineptly, but still....) And we just sit there, blinking. McConnell is great but COME ON. I think they still don't get it--that they HAVE TO WORK THIS MEDIA.
It seems to me they are just playing this "well, he's acting insane...we'll just ignore people who act insane and maybe they'll go away. The 'civilized people' know he's acting insane." People like some of the posters here get momentum because of this mess.
Are they just too old?
Pasadena Phil: That "neocon" is getting synonymous with "loose chang-er", "nutter", etc. It's like the people using it are actually causing the word itself to change meaning--attributable to their wack-O characteristics....
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Harry Reid: "Screw the women and children of the world with brown skin! Those Mooslems don't want and can't handle democracy and freedom anyway."
Q: "Didn't they say the same thing about slaves in America?"
Harry Reid: "Our tiny little boys and young young little bitty girls in uniform certainly do not want to fight for people who don't deserve freedom anyway. If only we didn't have something vital to gain by winning! Like the cause for global warming, the discussion is over. There is a consensus - we will lose and we will do it with passion."
I get a lump in my throat just listening to this great American chicken. |
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YOU were obviously a Marine! |
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On that note, how about sending some letters to the troops letting them know two things:
1: WE think they're doing a great job and to hang in there
and
2: While Senator Reid is entitled to his opinion, he only represents a small state wedged into the middle of the desert that is best known for casinos and brothels. He's only important to MSM and the soon to be back in the minority (thanks to brilliant political moves like saying a war is lost while voting more money to its prosecution) democratic caucus. |
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Reed is contemptible: Too not believe his own general in command in Iraq is contemptible. To preemptively call his general, who he voted into command, a liar, is contemptible. |
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Marines complain but never outside their platoon. USMC's comments make me think you were actually in the Navy. |
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Dean,
How about encouraging listeners and readers to take action and contact our representatives about this? I did. Let's take action instead of just having knowledge about this. Please add a post to take action and contact our representatives. Thanks. |
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It worked in NYC before Rudy, it worked to encourage Hitler and Tojo, and it'll work now. Come on Tokyo Nancy P. and Harry "Game over man, game over!" Reid! Put your yellow bellied lily livered Benedict Arnold selves into it! We're all counting on you. |
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Either Petraeus is going to lie or he isn't. Insinuatiung he doesn't have the courage to do anything but spin is more insulting than calling him a liar. Taking the middle course as in the I-support-the-troops-but-not-their-mission stuff is just plain cowardice anymore. No one wants to be caught dead dissing the troops or their field commanders except maybe the Martin's and Hairy Reed's of the world. Fine. At least they have the stones to take a position. The Left in this country think government needs to be everyone's daddy, including the poor, downtrodden, misused and abused troops as if they were a bunch of pathetic losers who couldn't wipe their own butts without a direct order. A wave of nausea has risen in my mouth when politicos have talked about how concerned they are about the "troops." BS!! Major BS!!!
From Hairy Reed to Ronald Dumsfeld, these whiny twits have cared more about winning arguments against each other then they've given two hoots in hell about the "troops" or even the wellbeing of me and mine. The evil in Iraq and the Middle East is not us. It's those who believe it to be Allah's will for them to strap a bomb around themselves and kill women and children on a bus, those who believe it to be Allah's will they cut off heads of hapless victims on international television. I want these evil bastards dead, every single one of them, if nothing else to spit in Satan's eye. The "troops" understand this. They have my undying support for them AS WELL AS their mission. God Bless the USA.
The "troops" are not children. They are probably the only honorable men and women left in America anymore. The rest of us try straddling both sides of an argument in ultimate testimony to the cowardice of postmodern belief. It's time to choose a side - there's only two. Martin and Hairy Reed have. So have I. Now it's your turn. |
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Who new the University of Southern Montana Crackpot had a chess club? |
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Thanks. I've seen that quote written several different ways. If comes from the talmud and was made famous by Anais Nin. I used it to name my blog just as a reminder of how little any of us really "know". I need reminding too. |
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"We don't see the world the way it is. We see the world the way we are." Or something very close to that.
That is awesome.
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I thought Afghanis and Iraquis voted freely and Al-quaeda is going nuts trying to disrupt the new Iraqui government because it will actually work if we give it time and support? Gosh! This didn't happen?! I coulda sworn it did. Oh well, the unpatriotic Leftists like Harry Loser Reid must be right. Nothing is working and we must not be winning. I think the best thing to do is leave now so the bad guys can go do some cleansing of the infidels. That's what's best for Dems in '08. How else will the Dems win if there is good news for America? I'm with ya, traitors, turncoats, losers and cowards - Go Islamofacist Terrorists! |
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You like to use the term "neocon" alot is lieu of reasoned argument. Are you, by chance, one of those "conservatives" who thinks "the Jews" control the world? Neocon is a pejorative term whose origins are very anti-Jew. Do a little research. If I see you continue to use it, it is safe to conclude that you are intellectually lazy, that you use words gratuitously and that you hate Jews. Whether this is a fact in reality is irrelevant. That is the accepted connotation among conservatives. There is a reason why only libs and other whackos like you use it. Are you or aren't you? My bet is that if you were actually a Marine, you probably had a desk job somewhere and missed out on the glory. You don't sound like any marine I know, and I know quite a few. You are a disgrace to the military in general. |
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Excellent post. Thank you.
New Topic
WRT Reid: A dimwitted, opportunistic scumsucker representative of Democratic Party "leadership." And those may be his good points. The situation won't improve in 2008 regardless of Dim candidate selection. |
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Props to the Captain and his rationality, his perspicuity, hishis eagle-eye for Neocon spin. A tough guy, with a tough act to follow. |
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Yes, you are privvy to the military blogs, and to the other bloggers embedded in the military. They are easy to access. Here is one:
http://fightin6thmarines.vox.com/
There is a nice video of the accomplishments of their unit.
You missed the entire point (or maybe I lacked eloquence--a typical blunder for me): no we cannot bring the troops home. Getting the infrastructure established is going to take a long time. I agree, it's hard for me to look at the pictures posted of the men who have lose their lives.
Let me ask this: if this is such a terrible mission, and all the armed services understand this, then why do many keep volunteering to go? Why are there lines of Iraqi men standing in lines to become policemen and soldiers (even when they know they might be killed just standing there)? And, please, spare the tired excuse of "they have no other options" and "they do it just for money." The people who are actually there don't say that. Could it be that they actually understand this better than we do?
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I don't know who makes me more furious, Copperhead Harry the Squawking Dork, or the spineless Republicans who never call him on his treasonous statements. I just called my two Senators and Mitch McConnell to ask thenm to grow a spine and do something about this little creep. I'm not holding my breath |
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we are not privvy to all the military blogs - but if indeed they paint a much different picture (lots of progress, decreasing violence, stability), then the mission is truly accomplished, right (ok, the new "mission accomplished") - the surge was designed to provide stability and security and if the military blogs are saying that it has been acheived- then why do we need to stay there any further - surge has worked, stability has returned, rugs can be bought in the marketplace, schools are open, iraqis have "stood up"..so, we can stand down and bring our troops home, correct?
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His comments regarding the rebuilding effort requiring political manuevering (and frequently misrepresented by the Left, as now by Pelosi/Reid) is not misunderstood by many Conservatives. Thomas PM Barnett makes this point: security is 90% of your problem when you don't have it, but only 10% of the problem once a place is secure. The rest is infrastructure development--that's what Petraeus is talking about. He means it's going to take a long time to maintain security while the new government forms.
You may be right that "most Americans" don't understand this. To some degree, this is their own faults for failing to stay abreast of what is going on (such as using the nightly news organizations to get all the information that "violence is up everywhere"), and it is the failure of this Administration to get the proper information disseminated in an adequate fashion.
VOR: where do you get all your information about the violence levels increasing? I read several sources daily--most are direct military blogs--and they do not support your position.
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How about the military not make up lies, lie to the family's face, cause lies to be recited at his funeral, tell them they can't get over it because they're not Christian enough, and quit using tools like you to excuse blatant dishonesty and the disgrace of a brave man's memory? |
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How many times in our past have soldiers sent letters home veiling the true details of how someone bought it?
It used to happen all the time.
A platoon commander wouldn't write home the truth, that some guy fell asleep on guard duty, and had his throat slit by the enemy who was probing our positions. A squadron commander wouldn't write home that some pilot was goofing off after making it back, was stooging over the airfield, and augered in.
A company commander wouldn't write home that one of his officers got a bad case of twitch, and his own men shot him to save their own hides.
It simply wouldn't have been done.
It's only been recently that some families have developed the strange notion that they have a right to every single detail surrounding the death of one of their own.
Were this the Second World War, who here thinks that the full details of Tillman's death would have ever emerged? Yet none would suggest that because those types of details were veiled that America's military was involved in some vast coverup.
But today, after the chomskyites, the Michael Moore types, all too many are all too eager to rush out there and proclaim coverup to the high heavens.
And for what?
In what way has the Tillman family been served by this new-found knowledge of theirs.
In what way has America been advanced in her war effort?
Where was there wrongdoing in the death of Tillman that would warrant this over-the-top fixation on how that fine man was killed.
He was killed in action. Mistakes were made. Mistakes are always made in war. Off Sicily our own Navy blew out of the air troop transports of the 82nd Airborne. Men on deck were cheering, positively jumping for joy as planes were going down in flames in a night sky. IT WAS ONLY THE NEXT day that they saw the wreckage of American troop transports, and saw the bodies of their fellow Americans floating all around them. Hundreds of American paratroopers were killed. And that's just one instance.
What makes the Tillman family think that their son was somehow inoculated from the strange and painful fortunes of war?
What made them think that blue on blue incidents never occurred?
Hell, during the Reagan years we had training accidents all the time. And that was just training.
The nation would have been better served had the Army stonewalled the Tillman family, stonewalled the investigation, and simply allowed the thing to slowly die from lack of oxygen.
Pat Tillman was a fine man. He wanted to serve this country at war. He did so. He was killed in action. He now knows that fellowship of American battle dead.
He understood.
Even if his family cannot.
It's only today where a military that tries to veil the details of how a service member was killed |
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We've been hearing about progress in Iraq for more than 4 years now from this Administration. Never once have their representations been accurate. Now, you expect any of us to swallow more of this pablum in light of the the reporting in Iraq over the past 3 months? Civilian casualties are up, military casualties are up, sectarian violence is up and we are now on the verge of seeing the peaceful Kurdish areas explode. Where exactly is the progress Dean?
Thankfully a majority of Americans have seen through the fairytale being told by incompetent hucksters running this war. Not only will Reid not believe Petraeus, neither will the majority of Americans. And, by the way, I do not believe Petraeus is lying. I think he is caught in a terrible conundrum. He knows this new war cannot be won militarily, but like a good soldier serving his CIC, he has no choice but to put the best spin on the situation -- because it is his duty. So while Petraeus has an excuse, you do not. |
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No matter what the facts are, his opinion will be undeterred? That's not reason, that's faith.
The left really does have a religion. |
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I won't believe Petraeus either.
Just watch this hearing on Pat Tillman's death and Jessica Lynch's rescue. Our military caused outright lies to be spoken at Tillman's funeral and delayed Lynch's rescue for a day to get media coverage in place. |
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