To be sure, using the imagery of Nazi tanks rolling into Poland was a bit hyperbolic, but Obama idiotically opened the door for this accusation. And what better time to bring it up?
Obama has specifically stated on too many occasions--and has memorialized it on his Web site--that he would speak face-to-face with troublesome enemies. The first time he made the mistake, he demonstrated how little he understands about diplomacy. He has to live with his position. The only way to back away from his remarks is to admit that he's been naive. Fine. But Obama shouldn't be allowed to get away with lying that he didn't say what he said. |
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Appessement is NOT the same thing as talking to...
Chamberlain appeased Hitler by giving in to his demands to avert war. He did not have to give in.
Did you not know the history or did you know where Chris was headed?
Why dont the Republicans start the draft again and send millions of Americans to fight and die against the Muslims..??lack of courage.??
They always have to have some group to scare people about..communist...Muslims...someone.. |
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If anyone just saw Hardball with Chris Mathews you saw Kevin James get his head handed to him on a plate.
I don't know who Kevin James is, but I seriously have never seen anyone do such a horrible and stupid job on a TV news show.
It was so fricking funny.
James...be a little prepared next time. You need to do a little more than just yell.
Wow...unbelievable. He made you look like a complete a-hole, and a dumb one at that.
How embarrassing.
Wow. |
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Kevin - if you can't appear on national television without looking like a fool then maybe it is best to stick to your radio show. Matthews embarrassed you by pointing out your lack of knowledge. It made you look like a pathetic person parroting the talking points of someone else without truly understanding what they meant. |
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Wow! Yes Kevin James got his hiney handed to him on hardball. So many republicans and O'riellyans are such ditto heads and don't know a darn fact about anything. Well Kevin James got busted on National TV. Hee hee. |
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What a doofus ignoramus imbecile; Matthews ate him alive. But this is precisely what the right wingnuts do: make worthless shallow accusations and then try to run away without taking responsibility. Mathews held his feet to the fire, James kept trying to obfuscate about not knowing what Neville Chamberlain actually did to "appease" Hitler, and Mathews all but tossed his sorry butt off his show. It's rare when the ignorant right wing shouting heads -- and James was literally screaming his inanities the entire segment -- get truly taken to task, because they are so loud, if not so swift. So, kudos to Mathews, and head to the woodshed, Kevin! |
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I never heard of this guy until Hardball tonight and I had to google him. KRLA has got a real idiot on it's hands. I mean he makes Dan Quayle look smart. I 'm sure he will soon have a show on Fox. |
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McCain would not be the nominee. It just doesn't matter that Bush is right. In 2008, it's the attack that is the issue not the issue itself. If you criticize Obama, you are an anti-black bigot. If you attack Hillary, you are a male chauvinist bigot. If you criticize McCain for his amnesty bill, you are an anti-Hispanic xenophobic bigot. If we could all be willing to focus on issues, we wouldn't be having these problems. |
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LOL...I just saw the funniest thing on Hardball. This is a clear example of how this "hear something dumb from an ignorant person and and repeat it" mentality has poisoned the minds of so many Americans. Like Kevin James, there are those who would rather just repeat every silly little thing they hear instead of actually doing some research and making an informed intelligent decision or forming an opinion based on facts rather than what their idiot uneducated friends have to say. Within seconds of his interview on Hardball today, here's what wikipedia.org had posted about Kevin's appearance on Hardball:
"On May 15, 2008, James appeared on Hardball alongside Mark Green of Air America Radio to debate host Chris Matthews in support of the remarks made by President of the United States George W. Bush on May 15, 2008 during a speech to the Knesset in Israel. Bush implied that there was a connection between British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement towards Hitler and the policies of leading Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama, in reference to Obama's expressed willingness to meet with the leaders of American adversaries in the Middle East. James was challenged by Matthews to explain exactly what Chamberlain did, which he was unable to do, instead repeating, "It's the same thing" during five minutes of repeated questioning. Although claiming to reiterate what Bush said, he eventually admitted " he did not know" what appeasement meant, or who Neville Chamberlain was, leading Mathews to state: "if you don't know what appeasement is about then don't talk about it." Matthews dismissed James as "pathetic," going on to draw a distinction between appeasing one's adversaries (by giving them something) and simply talking to them. The episode continued on for about 10 minutes.[4]"
LOL!! ALL ABOARD! THE IGNORANCE TRAIN! ALL ABOARD! |
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Yeah, keep attacking us conservatives. I didn't see the Kevin James thing but everytime you RINOs indulge in these gratuitous anti-conservative piling on orgies, your candidate Shoeless John sinks deeper and deeper. The Stupid Party indeed. Admit it. You guys work for Kos don't you. |
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....that comes out of Bush's mouth is a lie. That includes "and" as well as "the."
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Wow..... Kevin James exhibited most all of the qualities (of MOST, not ALL) right wing radio blatherers/comedians/entertainers, on HARDBALL this evening, to wit: Being history-free, fact-free, RUDE....and the shouting,talking over other people, babbling, not staying on topic, serial misnforming, smearing, LYING, name-calling and cretinesque attacking.
Mr. James, did you even attend a BASIC HIGH SCHOOL history class? MY GOD !!!!!
And this ilk of "people" are on the radio?
NO WONDER this nation is so UNINFORMED and MISINFORMED.... Limbaugh is the king of these type of clowns.
A quick quiz for Mr. James:
(1) Is the Federal Reserve a private or government concern?
(2) Who was Mohammed Mossadegh ?
(3)WHAT DID Neville Chamberlain do wrong?
(4) Who wrote THE PATH TO 9/11 (crap) that you cited on TV as history? (Geez!)
(5) What countries and associated corporations SOLD Saddam Hussein WMDs and poison gas IN THE FORST PLACE?
(6) Did the CIA have anthing to do with creating Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Marcos, Pinochet, Theiu, Diem, Mushsaref and Noriega ?
TRUE or FALSE.
(7) Does Defense Sec. Robert Gates support employing diplomacy with Iran? YES or NO.
(8) Mr. James people ACTUALLY LISTEN to a radio show like yours? HAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!! |
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KEVIN JAMES you are a parroting moron. Know your facts before going on hardball. Chris Matthews had you shove your big foot so deep down your damn throat that you choked on your own vomit. If you didn't know the history of world war two, how can you call Chamberlin an "appeaser"?
Thanks to Chris for exposing your AIR HEAD. You are so empty, light and shallow that your clothing carries more weight than your intellect.
You are an imbecile. |
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"these types of..."
"first" place
correction of errors above
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Straight out of Daily Kos. Quite a following. |
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Wow, I'm completely amazed that any sensible person does not recognize the true importance of dimplomacy, which by thew way is defined as: the conduct by government officials of negotiations and other relations between nations. I got this straight form the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, so any idiot who really thinks that America flaunting our big ego and piece of crap intellect is actually making themselves look like th ebiggest fools and are truly ignorant of all human history. First off, being 16 I find it funny to see a country full of people who actually think that negotiation is something dangeorous, risky, or undemocratic. First off, if you think that you can tote your shotguns and invade any country posing a legitimate threat to the ideology you call democracy and completely distort through your luncay is obviously the ignorant one on foreign policy here. the only means that have achieved peace are negotiation, not isolation. Diplomatic isolation has been the catalyst for numerous empires, especially Han China who could not adapt to the changing cultural waves of the 15th century and indeed feel to foreign domination. However of course, you fools have no sense of how the world works and blindly submit to actually believeing this complete idiocracy and this pitiful man. I honestly feel sorry for you all. Now, if you were to actually know world history to any degree you would see that ignoring the terrorist threat, as you would of course misleadingly call it, is simply the worst thing to do and having the utter arrogance to snob any other peopel around the world simply because you're American only warrants that you should seriously be deported and develop a world view consistent with the real world and not your own comfortable stupid ,fat, and American existence parading around yelling about crap you can't even justify. SHUT UP! |
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CIA & TORTURE:
http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/17/professor_mccoy_expos es_the_history_of
I was in the 'Nam.... this HAPPENED:
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/operation_phoenix.h
tm
I agree with a post of General, above, to wit:
Most of the Republican war lovers DUCKED OUT OF the 'Nam !
NOTICE: All you young Republicans: If you want to mouth off on a blog about WINNING in Iraq....
there is a recruiting office near you !
Gen. Anthony Zinni (Ret) called people who DONT FIGHT THEMSELVES IN COMBAT, DODGE THE DRAFT in the 'NAM ERA, BUT DONT MIND -NOW- like Bush and Cheney and Gingrich and Limbaugh, et al - SENDING OTHERS INTO COMBAT.... "CHICKENHAWKS".
Well put, General.
And Bush "gave up golf" ! |
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Is that all you can post? daily Kos?
I get my deep history material from the DEEP and WIDE reading of things called BOOKS.... all differnet genres of history books.... not some partisan website.
Nice try, though..........
And Kevin James got his NON-INFORMATION and LIES from....where????????????????????? |
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I do not know or actually care who Kevin James is. Sounds like a way to not address the intent of this article by Michael.. The fact is that if Americans were listening to Barrack Hussein Obama today and if they actually cared about something besides American Idol, then he would have just kissed his chances goodbye with that STUPID attack on Bush. He admitted that he would like to talk (negoatiate) with the terrorists, yeah how is that working out for you BHO!! |
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I have no idea who Kevin James is. I'm just commenting on the gratuitous anti-conservative attacks here on a subject that has nothing to do with the topic Medved is writing about. Medved's threads are always hostile to conservatives and this thread could have been cut-and-pasted right out of the Daily Kos. Says plenty about Medved's audience and what it means when he defends McCain as a conservative. |
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BUsh 41 met with Asad of Syria IN THE WHITE HOUSE! Face to face! OH MY GOD!
Was G H W Bush "delusional" and an "appeaser" for meeting Asad I ?
I guess G W Bush thinks his father is ! |
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Just watched "Hardball" with Chris Matthews and that fool, Kevin James. What a moron! Bush was (and is) in the wrong. Senator Joe Biden, on the other hand, hit the head on the nail! My only complaint is that Matthews did not press the "disconnect" button on Kevin James quicker.
Then we have John McCain, Bush's evil twin and Alzheimer's "Poster Boy" calling on Barack OBama to "explain himself" after Dictator Bush's stupid comment. First he said he had to give up golf because the Iraqi War (which he started based on false pretenses) interferred with his golf games. Can you imagine such a severely mentally ill person like him saying such a thing? And can you imagine a total dope like Kevin James agreeing with Bush???
I think the best (and only) solution would be for James, Rove, McCain, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Colin Powell, Joe Lieberman, Lindsey Graham, and all the other idiots that believe in pre-emptive strikes to go to Iraq (IN HASTE!) and fight alongside our brave men and women. And include Jenna and Henry in that list too!
This is an unwinnable war. We should've been sitting down at the bargaining tables years ago, to prevent this stupid war from happening in the first place. We are there for one reason and one reason only - OIL! We are not there to spread Democracy (the Iraqi's don't want it), and we are not there to stop terrorism.
The U.S. should be at war with Osama bin Laden, who orchestrated the 9-11 attacks. He is still at large seven years later, but Saddam Hussein and millions of other Iraqi's are dead.
Kevin James, the next time you have something to say, check your facts and take a history course. Now everyone knows you for what you are - a loud-mouthed moron!
Impeach Bush and Cheney now.
Then send them to Guantanamo where they belong! |
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I bet your proud of this moron! Send him back to research school to get the facts before this immature moron opens his mouth again.
What an imbariousment to KRLA.
I have a 7 year old grandson that can debate this guy, your probably saking yourself about now, Who hired this guy? |
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I DO NOT support McCain's or Obama's positions.
Are you both caught in the classic Hegelian Dialectic?
This vs. that? Dems vs. Repubs? Left vs. Right?
Conservative vs. Liberal?
NO CRITICAL THINKING INVOLVED AT ALL.
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Please learn how to spell.
Those were not just errant typos ! |
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What with the sassy wife and the crazy father-in-law living in the basement! ha! laugh? I thought I'd die:0 "King of Queens" rules. |
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...."it is better to jaw-jaw than to war-war".
Oh yes. That's right. Winston Churchill.
Kevin James utterly humiliated himself on Hardball today. If he had an ounce of shame or self-awareness, he would remove himself from public life forever. |
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Isn't Iran trying to move into Iraq? They already run Syria. So appeaser as a label for Huessein Obama isn't that far off the mark, considering we're at war and Iran is funding those who attack us. Obama and all Dem/libs want to approach from a position of weakness and fright. Just like Chamberlain. I just know it will work this time! |
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Oh that hurts!
Now do you have anything intelligent to say?
Spit it out!
Thought not!
My point got across to apparently.
Kevin James and KRLA are morons!!
Go Obama, go Obama, go Obama!!!!!!!!!!! |
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I am not drinking anyone's Koolaid. But this thread has been taking over by some serious koolaid drinkers. If you can't answer the question or face the facts, change the subject and throw in non-sequitors. Kevin James aint the problem here, the problem is we have too many people that cannot remember the evil tyrant that fed people into shredders feet first and his sons who covered them with honey and sent in the bees. So we would be better off if that piece of human excrement was still alive HOW!!! And furthermore, how can you negotiate with such a piece of filth.
How people can forget that soon and how they can be dumb enough to think we should have tea with terrorists is beyond me. |
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George Bush has been making this case in numerous speeches. I don’t think it was a direct attack on Obama; it was a direct hit on lefty foreign policy. It was okay for former President Jimmy Carter to meet with Hamas—no indignation from the Democrats or Republicans I might add, and it was perfectly acceptable for Pelosi to go to Syria. These two latter examples are far more outrageous than Bush’s civil and personal comments, at a venue that appreciates Bush's stance on the matter—exuberant applause ensued after Bush’s remarks. |
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Right wing parroting, smears, 1/2 truths and lies all fall SILENT when presented with ACTUAL HISTORY - deep and TRUE history - and FACTS.
Yup. No actual debate OFF OF FACTS... no nothing.
Just silence. Or regurgetation of babbling points. Or ad hominem attacks....
JUST LIKE MR KEVIN JAMES..............
So they go on the radio and rant and screen their calls.... i.e., HIDE. |
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..... there you go.
AGAIN.
Republican Senators and Congressmen went to Syria and met with Asad TOO !
Geeeez.......... |
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Have you read all these posts on this thread?
Bush 41 met with Asad in the WHITE HOUSE.... are you going to attack HIM ?
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First off, Mister Scarlet, you are very misguided, obviously due to the false rhetoric spread by this administration to captivate audiences like youreslf, but sir, honestly, yes Iran may be funding those who fight against us in the Middle East, but, you legitimately act as if Iraq is a democratic stronghold in the region, when in fact through neo-colonialism the West has again resumed its push to disregard the cutlural heritage of the regions we try to be active in, except for this administration of course because we are supposed to wait until we are "attacked" right before any kind of election to justify the further use of imperialistic military measures, I mean seriously, the middle East has no previous results to ever implement or support a Democratic or Western political model in their region, because America blindly assumes that democracy is the sueprior ideology, which of course mirrors social Darwinism, you people act as if forcing democracy on a region with conflicting world views and a conflicting cultural heritage, which happens to be completely shaped by the intense importance of Islam in the region, a trait seen throughout its history since Islam first existed in the 7th century,and it only results in actions that place America and every other country it colonizes in the name of this "democracy" against a movement that you label as an entire religion, which is of course completely innacurate. But why do you think these people want to kill us over in the Middle East? Do you not think they have a legitimate reason or are partially justified in any way? I mean, just because you're American doesn't mean that the past history of complete Western domination and exploitation of the Middle Eastern social, political, economic, or religious structures will simply go away. there are completely legitimate factors to why there is such anti-American sentiment there and it is not simply because Islam is evil or that those peopel are terrorists. |
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I mean, what would you call the Minutemen in the Revolutionary war who kidnapped, ambushed, and did the same moral level of actions as those in the Middle East today if you were British back then? I mean you completely obviously have no idea of the history of the region and therefore cannot make an accurate analysis of the situation over there and the ffects of the specific relationship of idiotic hate and innacurate blame that we are building with not just Iran but the entire Muslim world. |
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Have you ever been out of the country?
Have you lived in Israel?
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They dont READ.... they just listen to right wing radio..... |
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....or they watch the TJPC (The Junta Propaganda Channel) The Ailes Channel |
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really Jan? Piece of Filth? You have the utter arrogance to call anyone in this world a piece of filth? I have a question...are you a Christian? If you are, you would know that everyone is as much a piece of filth as everyone else in this world because there is no severity level of sin. There is no righteous man, everyone is sinful, IDK, if you really are a conservative I'm assuming you realize this and know that you have absolutely no intelligent justification for not negotiating with anyone. I mean how are you relevant to make a judgement liek that? You don't even know anything about foreign policy, or at least as the Bush administration has shown you, to completely withdraw from the mIddle East and compeltely unite our coutnry under the misled judgements over a religion you or any of your party even take th etime to understand. You honestly sicken me to even talk about how there is justification in not negotiating. The point of negotiating is to solve th eproblem ,it's not as if you're giving into anything, its just immature to give someone the cold shoulder and ever expect that they wil say, I'm so sorry, you are the best country in the world and I want to talk to you, NO. You have to establish mutual understanding concerning the issue at hand in order to evaluate from all points, but I guess you're just the type that gets internationsl conflicts started by being a complete idiot! |
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UH yessir I have been outside of the ocuntry and I gaurantee you I know more about Israel, from its 1948 founding up until today than you do, so how bout you give a legitimate argument to refute my point, that's what's called intelligent debating. |
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Let's say, China, invaded and occupied Mexico and Canada.... what would you cheerleaders of the Iraq-Afghanistan (and Iran?) wars want to do then? What US policies would you advocate for? |
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I simply asked you 2 questions.
And you, WHILE NOT EVEN KNOWING ME, nor ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT I KNOW OR DONT KNOW... say you know more than I do.... Wow. |
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Ok once again you should def. present a legitimate argument, because the point of the statement was to communicate th epoint that you have provided no relevant evidence to actually confirm that the two questions in any way refute mine or prove your point, so, I'm still waiting for your justification... |
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Oh, sorry, Justme, I thought you were Jan responding to my last response |
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If I sidetrack the issue, if I tell the person of opposing opinion: they are an idiot, they haven't lived outside of the country, they must not be college educated, you must be a racist, it will go away. If I hold my ears and sing la la la la la, I'll drown out what I don't want to hear, and I’ll never address the issue at hand with insightful dialog and relevant examples to make my case. I’d rather skirt the issue and use emotion and deflection to make no case other than to accuse you of stupidity, and pretend I’m “right” at all costs. |
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Justme, I guess he hasn't even responded to either of us, my mistake |
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I laugh at you Jan, I've been presenting relevant facts to justify my thesis but you act as if you can avoid admitting that your argument is simply wrong by accusing me of nto promoting relevant sides of the issue? You haven't even presented a single relevant point! I mean I don't really know if you even have an argument yet... See what I mean? |
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..... the ignorance (simply not knowing much at all) shines through in right wing circles regarding the Middle East, and there is plenty of vitriol, smears, and lies to go around on the far left , too.
Most Americans NO LITTLE OR NOTHING about the Mid East, beyond what they have been told by the American media....
It would be interesting to know what they knew about the Mid East BEFORE 9-11. |
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Hey I have a simple question about you're so-called "exuberant applause" for Mr. Bush, do you really desire applause ringing through the halls of a single building in Israel to some lunatic who preaches about comparisons of his opposing poltiical parties to Nazism? Or is it better to simply have a present engaged in foreign policy in order to actually build something we call "relatinships" with the rest of the world, who believe it or not, we have to live with for our entire existence... Right, so in reality, your entire argument is based on the assumption that as Americans we possess some kind of superiority over foreign ideals. |
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"Isn't Iran trying to move into Iraq?"
No. They don't need to. The US toppled a secular, Sunni-led government hostile to Iran and allowed a Islamist, Shiite-led government friendly to Iran to replace it.
I don't know if that was the intention of the Bush administration at the time they invaded. If it was, they succeeded brilliantly. |
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Very correct, the media portrays the middle East through a painted picture of terrorism and evil while they don't actually give relevant reasons for or evena history about how foreign ideas like the dreade "ISLam" develop and shape the relatinship between us and other regions. I mean without an accurate knowledge of history, anyone can be fooled into thinking anything |
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First learn to read (spelling in your case would be a good thing too)
The person who said that was not Jan it was me
So lets stop the attacking on Jan.
Yes, I did call him a piece of filth and a piece of excrement as well. (actually there are many other names I wanted to call him but held off). and yes I am a Christian and no that does not mean we need to all get together and sign Kum Bai Yah. If you read the old Testament the God of Issac,Abraham and Jacob (same God today by the way) told the Israelites to wipe out several races and was rather upset when they did not wipe them all out. He did not ask them to negotiate..
You can negotiate with sane people, even the USSR understood the concept of MAD, but, as an example, the leaders of Iran and N Korea are far to insane to even understand that simple concept. As a child I sometimes had to just punch the bully in the face, the only way to get his attention and luckily we have some leaders today that still understand that principal.
Ok here is one for you- say you are given the task to feed the people of Burma that are starving but their leader won't let you in or even take the food to the people- What do you do??
Oh yeah negotiate with him DUH!! |
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See? More offal. QUOTE: "typical lefty" responses.... He assumes I am a "lefty".
No actual facts, material or responses, Jan....
just a series of suppositions. YOU made up the rest of your posted litany, not me. |
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Then why is the Bush Admin. negotiating rather directly with N. Korea and Kim Jong Il AS WE SPEAK?
and it is spelled: Kumbaya |
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What is your evidence that the leaders of Iran (or North Korea, for that matter) are insane? They seem to be behaving like leaders of countries all over the world - in their own self-interest. |
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Kevin James, if by any miracle you have not ended your life by now, and if you are in fact reading this, I would like to say to you that you are a complete and utter pillock. I'm sure that's a word you've never heard of - similar to appeasement. If you get off of your stinking a$$ for one second, pick a dictionary and look it up, you may in fact discover that you are an unabashed brainwashed idiot. You cannot form coherent thoughts of your own, so you parrot the diatribe an inanities pressed upon you by your masters.
You are a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world.
Meaningful to no one, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done. |
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all americans regardless, Yes I have lived aboard, a year in Saudia Arabia as a civilian contractor, and a year in Iraq on deployment with The Army national Guard. Diplomacy is all fine and good when it works but Radical Jihadists have declared war on all americans, no appeasment, you can use all the rationallity you have and be so wrong in your conclusion on what you think you've accomplish with them, in the end they want to torture and behead you on Al Jazerra TV!!!!! It is just that simple. |
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Haha, ok, finally someone who has a sliver of an argument, but yeah, do you not understand the relevance of the Old Testament? When was the last time God asked you to wipe out several races? So you honestly take the Old Teatament, with completely relevant purpose to what God asked those people to do in that specific period of time obviously defined differently than now, which is of course to display specific aspects and traits of God's sovereignty, and are used not as literal commandments to us as Christians, now because the death of Christ fulfilled the "Law" as we call it, to determine your foreign policy now? That was nto a model for that kind of thing and btw, I like how you assume these leaders are too "insane" to listen to what you say, but ok, let's take this one step of a time, first off I would appeal to the international community to begin heavy negotiations, alot of talking, with the Burmese government and unite wiht many different countries, not just by myself, to begin to get the message across to the Burmese government. I would nto just simply go in and "invade" and if it came down to it and there was absolutely no cooperation, I would in the United Nations fight for approval to take in an international coalition of troops into there in order to overthrow the military junta, its weak military, and also keep the relative peace in a time of instability for the Burmese people. |
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..... it is precisely that kind of world view that causes fiascos like Iraq. |
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"classic Hegelian Dialectic"
What on earth are you talking about? Speak English. I have no idea what it is that I said that you are responding to. |
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Hey I have a question? Why do these terrorists want to kill us? I have that single question in mind? Do you even know because I honestly don't think you do. However, say that you're a terrorist, who wants to kill you then? It is the same across the board, of course both sides will have the same sentiments. And so, it is jutifiable to fight the militants physically attempting to kill your troops, but negotiation cannot be thrown aside as if it can't accomplish more than that. Maybe if you looked as specific factors of our country, just how anti-Muslim our people are, the kinds of messages and values our government portrays to our people, then maybe you till see that ignorance is on both sides of th eplate, as they do not clearly understand many of our motives, our messages, and our views, their thought process being shaped by fundamentally different ideas. Then look at the same aspects on our side. That is how your argument breaks down. And by the way, why would you decide not to negotiate if people are trying to kill you? they obviously feel some source of threat for our location in Iraw and the Middle East and so you have to look at the things we do in order to correctly assess the way they justify their actions. BTW, Islam is completely distorted byt hose men just as democracy is cokpletely distorted by many here, so go figure... |
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Leave Jan alone. I'm still waiting for her to respond to my asking her for a date tomorrow. Whadya say Jan! Dinner? Movie? My treat. |
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Hey bud, btw a dialectic is the act of persuasive presentation of arguments and counter-arguments that simply refute and affirm one another through inconsistency, so maybe you should think back to your college days and that Greek philosophy class you took, that is if you went to college, I don't know. |
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Tom asks:
"Ok here is one for you- say you are given the task to feed the people of Burma that are starving but their leader won't let you in or even take the food to the people- What do you do??"
"Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.
Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.
Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to naught.
Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.
Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"
Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.
Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers."
- Rudyard Kipling |
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1) The Pentagon Papers (I was an asst. medic in the 'Nam, 5th Cav Charlie Horse, Quang Tri).
2)The 1970 ARMY COUNTERINSURGENY MANUAL
(I had to study this manual)
3) The 27 ARTICLES, by T E Lawrence
4) The Great War for Civilization by Robt. Fisk
5) FIASCO by Thomas Ricks
6) Read all you can about the French occupation and war in Algeria 1954-62)
The 'Nam is NOT the parallel at all to Iraq.
Algeria is..... A Western Christian Caucasian occupying power who tried to subdue/change/ modernize an
Arabic/Bedoiun/tribal/clan oriented/extended family culture, in a DESERT, URBAN, country... with all the folkways, mores and cultural customs involved, including, but NOT in the main, Islam......
The French had, at the war's peak, 500,ooo troops - count them - 500,ooo troops in Algeria. The French had prisons, they tortured captives, they terrorized the indigenous population. Night raids on homes... the whole program.
READ ABOUT HOW THAT WORKED OUT.
A final note to everyone in here who SUPPORTS the Iraq-Afghanistan Occupations and is of service age: If you do, THEN GO SIGN UP AND GET OVER TO THE MID EAST. Now. And as Stan Goff pleaded: HANG ON TO YOUR HUMANITY.
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Yeah Nice Kipling, but that is a very imperialistic view of world relations, realize Kipling was the leader at the forefront of the British push to Imperialize Africa in the late 19th century and his writings, especially seen in the Jungle Books, display his Socially Darwinistic nature, resorting to the view that by going into Africa and taking those people by force, it would benefit them with the implementation of "Civilized" culture and religion, being for their best. So tell me what happened to Africa after unhindered self-interest was advocated by one of the most powerful British figures at the time? Africa was completely exploited for its vast natural industrial resources and lef wihtout the development of industry or infrastructure, one of th emany reasons it continues to be one of th emost pitiful areas of the world, left with continuing ethinic conflict because the Imperialistic Industrialized nations simply went into Brussels and divide Africa up on a map, completely disregarding the specific structure of the entire continent. Africa was left completely on its own and could not accept or even successsfully implement the Western ideologies, ending up in a continent completely at a loss, dependent on foreign economies, having no self-determination, and leading to the emergence of very exploitative dictators exhibiting similar cultural values as to those of the capitalistic west by the time de-colonization had occurred. |
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A) I went to college. Grad school.
B) Hegel is German, not Greek.
You could even Google it. |
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Whoever backs Bush is sad!
It is easy for the right wing cowards to flap their gums and send our children to war when they will never go them selves.
For all of you that want to keep fighting in Iraq the enlistment office is down the street and they need you!
I have seen death and distruction first hand and you, who are quick to defent Bush, please go defend our country or shut the hell up!
I have no respect for the cowardist right.
And Just Me, sorry for the miss spelled words, I like some of the things you had to say. |
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http://harpers.org/archive/2007/02/0081384 |
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You can't honestly look at terrorists and say "Wow, complete distortion and destruction of humanity has never occurred to the extent that it has in these individuals!" Because if you know any history at all, this occurrs in every culture, no matter whether you're American or Iranian, or Muslim, the world always consists of the complete insanity in the form of senseless killing, conflict, execution, torture, w.e. you want to say but the main question at hand is to find a means to some how regulate the destructive human nature as observed throughout history in order to find a means of penetrating the psyche of all people involved in the means of finding a complete solution for the world to simply control themselves, not supporting any kind of tension and conflict because everyone is human and everyone shares the same fatal flaw, whther it is visible in some is completely determined by the events and lives of the person, so don't act as if Americans are any different than these people because everyone shares the same potential. This flaw is simply seen more in the flawed thinking of these people and the only way to ever escape this flaw? ENLIGHTENMENT... |
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I was agreeing with you in my quotation of Kipling. I guess irony doesn't come across well on the InterTubes. |
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I'm glad you went to grad school, so you should realize that destruction only begets destruction and only begets compelte destruction of humanity inherent in anyone, that is the source of the problem, so that should be the direction of the solution. On a practical level, only communication can achieve a mutual understanding of this issue, maybe over a long period of time and through failure of understanding on both sides, but unless a focus on solving this problem is not utilized in foreign policy, thsi world will not cease to experience the terrors you propose to support... |
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Investigate how the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Mesopotamia worked out for Alexander the Great, the Russians (twice), the British and the French, and even The Ottoman Turks.
Regardless of what anyone THINKS, FEELS or BELIEVES or OPINES about the US Occuaptions in the Mid East.... the US military WILL LEAVE...and the US Treasury will be drained beyond recognition.... The Congress, each Party, took out a credit card and BORROWED AND SPENT on these 2 FIASCOS..... and US citizens will be paying for it for DECADES. Not to mention the many Vets and their families being destroyed.
And Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Feith Cambone, and Gingrich, and Wolfowitz and Perle and Rice and Tenet and Powell and Rove, and Ledeen, and Frederick Kagan, and Kristol and MOST fo Congress, and the Clinton Admin., and Madeline Albright, and Z. Brzezinski and The Pentagon Brass will live wealthy comgfortable lives.....
... the REST OF US WILL PAY FOR IT ALL.
OOPS... I forgot to mention the MASSIVE CORPORATE CORRUPTION in Iraq ! |
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I know you were, but I just don't think the Kipling-advocated mentality is exactly what I was going for just because of what it implies, but I'm glad you see that any solution would have to involve the rest of the world, I'm just tired of the U.S. utilizing foreign policy that acts as if we're the only country on the planet... kno what I mean? |
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Nothing is false about Bush's statement, but Obama realizes this is the issue that will spark defeat for him in November so he wants to 'pretend' that his 'appeasement' plan will work. Didn't Clinton try that for 8 years? What did that get us except USS Cole attacked, Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies attacked and of course the 9/11/01 attack on our soil. If Barak is proud to negotiate with terrorists - he should say it loud and proud. Not say it loud then change his mind then accuse others of lying when they quote him and his flawed foreign policy. Hey Barack - you may have disowned Wright (not that americans believe you) but we have you on tape saying you will meet with the Iranian president without any pre-conditions. Whaaa???? |
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AL
I agree in the main with your posts. Yes.
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Would the Leftbags who have tried to change the subject to a conservative punching bag no one has heard of address the fact that Obama has been busted by Bush in a REPEATED LIE????
Democrats follow the strategy of repeating mantras over and over in hopes someone thinks it's fact. And 20-30 percent of people really are that stupid. So when Bush calls them on it, as he did today, it's very amusing to hear A) Obama deny he's said something, let alone repeated it constantly and put it on his web site, and B) for you to chatter repeatedly like the double-plus-good quackspeakers you are that when a leftist wack-job like Chris "I get breathles when Obama speaks" Matthews brings on one of the few conservatives he could actually beat up, somehow this invalidates A) the argument or B) the fact that Obama denied he said what everyone knows he said. For heaven's sake, it's one of the few statements he's actually ever said about what he'd do as President.
Maybe you should put on your Chris Cocker eyeliner and go on YouTube and scream "LEAVE BARAKIE ALONE!!!!!" through your tear-stained mascara.
Wow - babblin Bush catches the speaker of the ages and leaves him with a press statement that denies what his web site has been saying all year, and frankly, was pretty poorly written and horribly reasoned... funny that.
By the way, if the leader of Iran continues on his chosen path without being stopped, comparing him to Hitler or the democratic leadership to Chamberlin will be considered unfair to Hitler and Chamberlin. |
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Sarah:
Please.......
Go back and read the posts in this thread so we dont have to repeat ourselves. Thank you.
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Kevin was simply wonderful tonight. Kev-o, you rocked... Job well done there big guy! I have already asked Chris to have you back on.
Well, actually, I am begging Chris to do it again!
Please??? |
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Wake up!! YOU MAY HAVE GONE TO GRAD SCHOOL AND BELEIVE IN DIPLOMACY SUCH AS CARTER'S CAMP DAVID FAILURES AND CLINTON'S FOREIGN POLICIES THAT ALSO FAILED. WE WERE ATTACKED PLAIN AND SIMPLE, WE LOST CIVILIANS WHO MOSTLY WERE JUST GOING TO WORK AND MAKE A LIVING. ME BEING IN THE MILITARY AND SERVING IS SOMETHING I AM VERY PROUD OF, INSTEAD OF JUST STICKING MY HEAD IN THE SAND AND PRETENDING ALL IS WELL AND LIVE LET LIVE POLICY AS YOU WERE TAUGHT DOES NOT WORK WITH JIHADISTS. I'LL TAKE ANY 18 YR OLD SERVING IN THE MILITARY NOW OVER ANY GRAD SCHOOL PERSON WHO UNDERSTANDS MATTERS ON NATIONAL SECURITY. YOU TALK A GODD TALK BUT SIR DO YOU KNOW WHAT A TERRORIST IS?? |
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See? KKAT proves the point of some of the posts in this thread..... vitriolic name-calling, fact-free posting, ranting and "gotcha" offal, backed up by: THE AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA !
THIS vs. THAT
RIGHT vs. LEFT
REPUBLICAN vs. DEMOCRAT
LIBERAL vs. CONSERVATIVE
What a black hole that is to fall into. |
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Really Sarah? Recognizing your desire to end the problem of Iran's support of terrorism, it is only rational that you negotiate wiht the leader of the nation, the man himself, if you don't, then you don't accomplish anything. You just are being prideful by saying that you would never negotiate with him because he is a terrorist, so you obviously rely on a complete generalization of the man. Meet with him, learn his opinions, learn his policy about it, confront him peacefully about the issue, utilize sanctions, utilize important peaceful strategies to pressure him to cease his actions, get th einternational community more involved, let him know the consequences of his potential actions, I mean, the list goes on, but tell me this, what will you acccomplish by ignoring this threat that is growing? Why not try to make it disappear through peaceful measures, because if you don't do anything about it or recognize that we are'nt the only ones who have power or decision in this situation then you are truly a failure in your foreign policy. Your, and most of the ignorant Americans who believe that we are above the level of all of these other human beings, policy just isn't justifiable and will not work ,so please don't propose something like that. |
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Ray:
If youy think Kevin James "rocked" (WOW!)..... man, I would shudder to think of the person you would launch an ad hominem attack on for "not rocking" or being "FACT-FREE" or "NEANDERTHAL" or "CRETINESQUE"
UNBELIEVABLE..... STUNNING. |
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You sound like one of those commies always citing high-concept principles that don't have any real world applications. "Raise high the banner of international proletarianism!!!" Do you ever say things like that? Do you know what a pedant is? Do you know what a mirror is? Do you know how to use a mirror? Now look up the word "pedant" and then look in the mirror. Now look up pretentious stuffed shirt. After that, look up pseudo-intellectual. Sorry for my directness and for using plain English. It is so-o-o-o-o-o declasse. |
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Lol, Arngret, I'm 16...... Yes, only 16... but of course I believe in the Camp David Accords because the only reason they failed is because of Sadat's assasination... he was truly a Muslim leader that recognized the importance of peace...Yessir, of course I understand the meaning of "terrorist" and the fact that there are people in this world who want to kill us, but ok, we are killing them systematically as well, Iraq has lost almost 1,000,000 civillians in this conflict, so I ask you, does the killing of one person justify the killing of another? Or is it the complete disconnect... that maybe killing is something that cannot be rationally justified in our existence... So yes I support you and your work, sir, but do not let your experiences with these people let you develop a world view that does not take rational steps in every instance, and my presented plan is not live and let live, it is simply to approach the conflict with the intention to preserve life, not to immediately do whatever it takes to carry out your desired policy, because the result is completely injustifiable on any side. |
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Warning: Please save your military chauvinism and "WAR FIRST" mentality for someone other than myself.
Thank you. |
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Now you call me MORE names.... Commie, stuffed shirt... etc.
How mature.
Have you ever been in combat? Just asking. |
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READ THIS OFFAL BACK TO YOURSELF:
You sound like one of those commies always citing high-concept principles that don't have any real world applications. "Raise high the banner of international proletarianism!!!" Do you ever say things like that? Do you know what a pedant is? Do you know what a mirror is? Do you know how to use a mirror? Now look up the word "pedant" and then look in the mirror. Now look up pretentious stuffed shirt. After that, look up pseudo-intellectual. Sorry for my directness and for using plain English. It is so-o-o-o-o-o declasse. |
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Wow, I agree with you on the point that Barack should not deny that he proposes to appease terrorists, but that is not what he said, he said that he would negotiate with the President of Iran, so making generalizing labels and replacing the actual words of his statement does not take into acccount any of the significance of the quote itself, so please spare me...So,I also don't see what you use to support the complete political isolation between us and Iran
And btw ARNGRET, the Clinton and Carter attempts at political policy brought us the closest we've ever come at achieving relative stability in the region. Until that is accomplished, we can't take steps to ensure the mutual benefit of all there, so being involved in the middle East through foreign policy is exactly what our government is supposed to be doing, or else there is no such thing as "diplomacy", only the violence and potential catastrophe you support. |
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Ok Ok Ok, please read my comment CAREFULLY... there was a hint of sarcasm in my entry....
Maybe we should just all take a big breath, close our eyes and say "Foozbraha" ... (line from Anger Management)
lol
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Pasadena Phil,
The 'Nam was a "real life application" and had nothing to do with me being a "commie".
Please go do some reading and learning and stop with the personal attacks.... they reveal the fac that you cannot come to terms with the FACTS that I have posted.
(HINT: I am NOT a "Leftbag" or any other label).
Labels show a COMPLETE LACK of critical thinking.
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yeah, I really am, I'm a sophomore in high school |
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President Bush's comments were more relevant today than at any other time. Israel exists today because Neville Chamberlein achieved "peace in our time", which allowed Adolf Hitler to launch his assault on Europe and the "final solution" to the "Jewish problem". Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has made it perfectly clear that he will complete Adolf's unfinished work as soon as he is able. His nation's policies supports the work of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Sadrist in Iraq. I do not think the President of the United States will convince him to alter his beliefs and intentions.
President Bush denied a relationship between his comments and Barak Obama. I would have no problem if the President had named names. Obama has already stated his intentions. Bush should be open and warn Israel and the world that his successor, like Chamberlein, may open the door to the next Hitler and the next Holocaust.
I am not suggesting that Obama would do so intentionally, however, we all know with what the road to hell has been paved. |
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16 years old..... and a thinker. |
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I just watched Hardball. Kevin, you have won a place in history as one of the most embarassing conservative commentators I have EVER seen. Seriously buddy, that was pretty bad. I could not stop laughing when I saw the look on your face when Chris Matthews shut you down. Read a book...man, that's all I can say. You should seriously spend less time at the Abbey holding on to that dude you were with Thursday and more time holding on to a history book. But, I don't hold out much hope for you. |
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Wake up smell the coffee!!! this world is not all the roses that a left wing nut who want to beleive in. There are people who beleive in defending this country's enemies foreign and domestic. I beleive in peace but when there is a mission objective to be done I beleive in accomplishing it and not surrendering and running away, something you won't understand by the leftwing agenda. |
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1) His name was spelled: CHAMBERLAIN.
2) Do you really believe your post, and are you serious?
3) Who took "your" country? |
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There's only one disconnect to your entire argument sir, and that is that Obama has not said anything about appeasement to terrorosits that you claim, the only reason this word: appeasement, is even being used in these conversations is because someone mentioned it today, i mean abrack has establishe dhis foreign policy as trying to peacefulyl pressure iran into ceasing, so is that not enough for you to ask for? Honestly, I don't see what is wrong with simply talking with the man, because you obviously aren't thinking realistically in saying that this is in any way comparable to Chamberlain in '38, because you wouldn't ever have made that connection unless it was heard on Hardball or unless someone on this website or any other conservative website had said it, because they are actually not even parallels... |
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Why is the language of weakness and cowardice so complicated? Here is little story that might help you cut through the crap of pseudo-intellectualism. I once trained in a gym where a very talented tae kwan do athlete who went on to almost make the USA Olympic Team also trained. He was very, very good but he was also very, very obnoxious. One day, for no good reason, this other guy, a stocky but much shorter former Greek soldier who was only about 21 but looked 45 decided that he was tired of being insulted by the guy and called him out. The TKD guy warned him that he entire body was a lethal weapon and that he could kill him "ten times before he hit the ground". The Greek guy, without uttering a single word, then punched him in the chest and knocked him out cold. I later asked him what made him so sure he could lick a proven fighter like TKD and he explained that "All he had was great technique but that couldn't stop me from hitting him." Moral: power trumps technique. Put another way, guns trump words. That is why is why we have an eternal and universal law that says: "dem wit de guns make da rules."
Sometimes, you have to accept your enemy's word that he doesn't want to talk and is determined to kill you. You can't risk that he might not mean it.
That Greek guy became everyone's best friend. We loved him. He was a quiet, soft-spoken immigrant who already had his own business. It's amazing how civilizing having a guy like that hanging around can be. Kind of like packing a gun. An armed society is a polite society. But you wouldn't know that. People who talk like you usually support mass murderers like Castro, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. One well-placed bullet short of freedom. |
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Dear Arngret:
Please RE-read what you just wrote:
Wake up smell the coffee!!! this world is not all the roses that a left wing nut who want to beleive in. There are people who beleive in defending this country's enemies foreign and domestic. I beleive in peace but when there is a mission objective to be done I beleive in accomplishing it and not surrendering and running away, something you won't understand by the leftwing agenda.
______________________________________
"something I wont understand" ?
"left wing nut" ?
NO Quang Tri wasn't roses. |
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Dear Arngret:
Please RE-read what you just wrote:
Wake up smell the coffee!!! this world is not all the roses that a left wing nut who want to beleive in. There are people who beleive in defending this country's enemies foreign and domestic. I beleive in peace but when there is a mission objective to be done I beleive in accomplishing it and not surrendering and running away, something you won't understand by the leftwing agenda.
______________________________________
"something I wont understand" ?
"left wing nut" ?
NO Quang Tri wasn't roses. |
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My God!
The inane ignorance and blatant stupidity of this nut, Kevin James was unbelevable on Hardball tonite. He had absolutely NO inkling of history yet wanted to spout invectives based on a warped historical interpretation of the concept of 'appeasement.' Whatever show employs this ignoramous should can him out of embarrassment. Its one thing to be conservative or a staunch conservative; however, to be an ignorant conservative who does not even research the facts upon which he bases his warped argument is fully beyond comprehension. May I suggest changing your career to carnival barking. |
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O, ok, I see, so you advocate multiplying our enemies by the hundreds in order to "defend" our nation domestically and internationally? So why the hell is there no means of sealing our Southern border? I mean, if you preach this "kill all enemies" mentality with such fervor, then actually back up your talk, the administration here has completely bowed down to special interests to advocate and preach this crap to people, as if we're defending ourselves for being in Iraq. The terrorist threat there only developed clearly after we invaded, you know why? Because th eintense hate of America that unifies the Middle East... DUH! Ever since the West has flaunted their huge egos there, they obviously feel a sense of loathing for any imperialists liek the u.S, so obviously we've only made ourselves more enemies bby uniting the Muslim World to a common cause of exterminating us...maybe you don't have the sense to know that, but we've completely brought two countries with a history of complete conflict that goes back to the Sunni-Shi'a split in Islam together under the commonality they find in hating us because of our actions. Seriously, you shoudl be the one to get real. By doing crap like this and proclaiming that it is to keep us safe and destroy our enemies is a complete lie... |
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Speak English and maybe we can communicate. I have no idea what you are talking about and this is not an exercise on who knows more Hegel or Durkheim or Clauswitz or other famous German. The issues here are simple as should be the terms of discussions. |
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did reagan negotiate face to face with the leaders of the greatest enemy this united states has ever faced, russias leader, three or four times. will you renounce what he did.
did nixon negotiate face to face with Chinas leaders Renunciation.????
i could go on to show how very stupid bushs ramrk realyy was. what you are saying is that if we pretend they dont exist maybe they will go away. if we dont talk to them they wont be there. such is the state of foreign affairs by the republicans. stupid and very hippocritical. dont you agree |
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Thanks for the little irrelevant tidbit about the soldiers in your gym man, I appreciated its irrelevance, but that mentality of guns triumphs words is exactly what got WWI, WWII, KOREA, VIETNAM, THE CRIMEAN WAR, TEH SEOND CONGO WAR, and every other major world conlfict in history started, which is exactly why it HAS NEVER WORKED!!!!!!! I mean you ignore every apst model of the strategy you advocate and assume that for some reason it will work in this age?? It is just out of ignorance that you believe that we should even be "making the rules" I mean what justifies us making rules over other countries anyways? That's called extraterritorialism bud, and it has resulted in nothing but bad feuds and huge grudges seperating not only ethnic groups, but entire cultures... |
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WOW>>>>>>>>
"People who talk like you usually support mass murderers like Castro, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. One well-placed bullet short of freedom."
Nixon's/ Henry Kissinger's MASSIVE BOMBING (dem wit da guns have da power) of Cambodia HELPED CREATE the power vacuum that Pol Pot stepped into. THEY HELPED CREATE Pol Pot, via YOUR John Wayne philosophy, not mine.
I have never actively supported ANY dictator, but my country has... lot's of them.
Wanna list?
Starting with Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein? |
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WOW>>>>>>>>
"People who talk like you usually support mass murderers like Castro, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. One well-placed bullet short of freedom."
Nixon's/ Henry Kissinger's MASSIVE BOMBING (dem wit da guns have da power) of Cambodia HELPED CREATE the power vacuum that Pol Pot stepped into. THEY HELPED CREATE Pol Pot, via YOUR John Wayne philosophy, not mine.
I have never actively supported ANY dictator, but my country has... lot's of them.
Wanna list?
Starting with Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein? |
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I give you credit fro claiming to be a thinker, but your premise and conclusions are wrong but I won't fault you for that, just being in high school, probably had a lot of liberal teachers sticking itin your head so I'll fault our educational system and our liberal biased media for that, and on the middle east I knew alot of good Islamic people from iraq and Saudia Arabia. I am mostly referring to the fanitacal jihadist that want to kill americans period, they don't want to negotiate, they want to kill all infadels so that they will get there 70 virgins and be in paradise. |
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Damn straight, who do you think supported Castro? Marcos? Franco? Huh? do you really shoot down your argument that quickly? and btw, how do we people usually support dictators? and there is no past example of any armed society being polite. That's just something someone who likes guns would say to justify his incorrect argument.. i mean really, you should use actual historical examples instead of just saying crap you can't defend. That's called learning from mistakes... |
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Phil:
Ok, IN plain English:
Dictators the US Govt has supported since WWII under ALL Presidents and Parties and policies:
Saddam Hussein
The Shah of Iran
Marcos
Pinochet
Diem
Thieu
Norriega
The Greek Junta
The House of Saud
Mubarak
Somoza
Charles Taylor
A SLEW of them in Africa
Alcaron
I could go on...........
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Phil:
Ok, IN plain English:
Dictators the US Govt has supported since WWII under ALL Presidents and Parties and policies:
Saddam Hussein
The Shah of Iran
Marcos
Pinochet
Diem
Thieu
Norriega
The Greek Junta
The House of Saud
Mubarak
Somoza
Charles Taylor
A SLEW of them in Africa
Alcaron
I could go on...........
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Really arngret?? I'm pretty sure the media is biased towards Republicans... It makes completely incorrect and unjustified arguments by our very own Mr. GW make sense to the people based on false accusations and generalizations. You Help prove my point btw, Islam is not evil by any means. Muslims are devoted to a religion that does not beleive in opressions, so naturally when they get opressed by foreign ideologies, what would they do? Attempt to rid their lands of it... just like they are attempting now. You should really analyze the other side of the point from the Muslim's standards before you talk about how significant it is that they want to kill our troops. Plus, because the radical Muslims make up so little of the Muslim population, why would using arms ensure benefit for all muslims? Has it really ever accomplished anything over there? I think not. It only results in mass loss of life and completely unsolvable conflicts. There's obviously a reason for the radicals to want to kill us, so try and think about what that is before you assume it doesn't exist and that these men are simply evil and bloodthirsty. |
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Sorry about the spelling error. I am serious and I do believe my post. By the way, I am also intelligent enough to make the connection myself and do not watch Hardball.
Look what Iran is doing today with respect to sponsorship of murder and the killing of innocents. Do you really think you can reason with people like this? When someone threatens you, you take them seriously; don't fool yourself into thinking they can ever be trusted. |
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Oops.... I forgot Franco, and -early on - American Industrialists SUPPORTED Hitler and Mussolini.... I hate to break the news.
These are not LEFT WING "ideas" or RIGHT WING "ideas".... these are FACTS. |
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Oops.... I forgot Franco, and -early on - American Industrialists SUPPORTED Hitler and Mussolini.... I hate to break the news.
These are not LEFT WING "ideas" or RIGHT WING "ideas".... these are FACTS. |
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Ok then, so you stand against the killing of innocents?? Then how about do something about the ocnlflict in Darfur?? Why focus on Iran?? I mean 400,000 INNOCENT peopl dead and you talk abotu ow important it is that Iran does not kill innocent people. What about the 20 million Native Americans the U.S. goivernment systematically killed?? Were they not completely innocent? Or maybe noone is innocent, because everyone has committed wrongs, so by taking that position, you would be advocating the destruction of every country in the world sire, quite absurd. To clarify your argument better, they are killing AMERICANS, U>S> citizens, it has nothing to do with the fact that they are innocent, so don't even propose that as your fundamental position or sles you would advocate the U.S. involvement in almost all of the intense mass killings of people everywhere. EAST TIMOR?? DRC?? AZERBAIJAN??? CHECHNYA??? tell me my friend... |
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I learned about the concession of Czechoslovakia in seventh grade. This idiot has a law degree? Really? Can't you find out any other bombastic and boorish commentators who aren't imbeciles? Strike that, I know the answer. |
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In answer to your question about the old Testament, yes it is still relevant. And yes it it Israel's land and perhaps you do not know your history as well as you claim to either. The British promised Palenstine to the Jews after WW I to thank Chaim Weizmann for developing a lab version of cordite. ChurchHill was a strong supporter of granting this as well. BUT the British gave into the anti- semites and reneged on the offer. And you know the rest.
Or go back further to Mark Twain's time and find that no-One was living in Palestine at the time. (oh yes and the name was given to the land by the Romans as an insult to the Jews (named after their nemesis the Phiilistines)
SO yes it is their land and yet the anti Semites of the world continue to lie and lie and the world continues to beleive them.
As for the Burma situation- I would air drop food, not attack.
Oh and by the way, I am not pro Bush, I am pro Israel.
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I'm tired of having to respond to all of these ignorant "we have the guns so we deserve to dominate" It only show the neo-imperialistic culture that convinces people to take up their guns to solve the world's problems. There is obviously no value for life or peace in this although they would have you think differently, so if people will not actually present true arguments and relevant hsitorical evidence to back their strategy up, claps for them,but until then, go ahead and practice U.S. domination as a foreign policy. If you lived in a diff. country I'd laugh so hard to see your faces... G'night |
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The left wing blogs and forums have the same zealous ideology.... but right wing sites are FAR WORSE.... and much more FACT-FREE and HISTORY-FREE.
BTY... Churchill had no problem using poison gas on the "brown people" in Africa. |
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Even when you're right, you're wrong.
"I have no idea who Kevin James is. I'm just commenting on the gratuitous anti-conservative attacks here on a subject that has nothing to do with the topic Medved is writing about."
-- Exactly right. This flood of trolls ranting over one of the SIDE DEBATES regarding Bush's speech, rather than debating Medved's column or (God forbid!) the issue of negotiating with terrorists and radicals, is annoying and pathetic.
"Medved's threads are always hostile to conservatives and this thread could have been cut-and-pasted right out of the Daily Kos. Says plenty about Medved's audience and what it means when he defends McCain as a conservative."
-- The fact that some liberals post here means something significant? What? Does it mean the same thing when I post solid conservative opinion on liberal blogs? What would you prefer, 100 or so posts for every column, each of them saying "mega-dittoes, Rush"? I, for one, enjoy having views with which to disagree.
And another thing: Does it sound like ANY of these liberal trolls actually agrees with Medved's opinion on this one? Appears to me that this flood of anti-Bush, prO-bama sentiment goes to show how CORRECT Medved is on this one. |
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Pasadena P I enjoyed it,but I'm afraid it's lesson will be lost on some of this crowd.The fact that they even admit to watching Hardball is telling. |
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Your nick says it all.
What do you "RULE" ? |
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Uh, buddy, I'm pro-Israel too, but I just don't advocate killing in the name of priority for another group of people, that's just not how it should be done. BTW, your Burma air-dropped food would simply be seized by the military government, that's the point of what they're doing now, just siezing all of the aid entering the country... And of course the story is relevant today, but that does not warrant slaugthering anotehr race. Unless God told you to dos so, then you don't do it...That's the point, God told the Israelites what to do in order to ensure their survival, so don't ever base actions ot preserve their welfare on human logic or reasoning because we are severely flawed as human beings and cannot possibly comprehend the thought process of his supreme being... An btw, I do support Israel's existence, which was actually promised to them in the 1917 Balfour Declaration sir, although the British had also promised the Arabs a homeland in the region because of the military service of both groups in the First World War, but just another example of how the West has severely screwed up and obviously a reason why the Arabs would have a common hate for the West or anythign that resembles its influence in the region (Israel), not to mention the intense conflict between Jews and Muslims that has also preceeded the homeland issue |
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I agree Islam is a peaceful religion but fanatics of any religion or organizations corrupt and twist it to there interpretations just for their cause and agenda. I know alot of peacful muslims both here in the U.S and in the middle east and we are respectful each other. They hate terrorists too and think they should be put to death. So I do not think you fully understand my point. It is not a textbook situation and discussion Q&A as they have in high school, but just keep beleiving what you beleive no matter how you err in your thinking. |
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Praise Jesus!
SOMEONE IN HERE actually knows about the Balfour Declaration !
A 15 yr old like AL has more history on hand then all the radio talk show/TV American media "followers" in here.
WE HAVE NO MEDIA, really.
And Both the "Left" and The "Right" scream endlessly about BIAS!
While the Corps and the ppl who actually RUN things put us ALL AWAY.
And Angret told ME to wake up?
LOL |
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You might be right. I'm admittedly not inclined to cut Medved any slack because of how he called shamelessly called conservatives bigots when the amnesty bill was being contested. He is a knee-jerk apologist for the Bush admin and I suspect has grand ambitions of replacing Limbaugh as the "voice" of something. Limbaugh was conservative before it was even cool. Medved is just cutting in line as it were by discrediting anyone he has to while looking to the White House for approval. He is an establishment tool. His posts are usually dominated by nasty RINO commenters so I may have lazily commented on this thread without making the important distinction you just explained. |
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I do not advocate killing either, but franly people like Arafat etal do not unsterstand anything but the gun. If you listen to the leaders of these Arab countries, most of them want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth,not share a homeland with them. Omert has shown that making deals and land for peace does not work with people that hate you.
ANd yes , I know that Arab are semites, kinda ironic isn't it that they are called anti semitict. |
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ANGRET,
Radical religious zealots, like the right wing Christian zealots we have in this country?
Hagee
Falwell
Parsley
Robertson
Oh... and I heard a preacher here in NC on AM radio say he wanted to bring back the "ritual of stoning".
And the KKK was FLLED with religious psychopaths.
YES, I AGREE with you... radical psychopaths are all over th world. |
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Dear TOM:
Yes, true.... I lived in Israel for awhile in the early nineties.... It is a VERY, VERY COMPLICATED MESS. A huge catastrophe on both sides.
That is PRECISELY why one cant SIMPLIFY IT.
Thanx for your posts.
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A little dense are we? In your utopian world, how do you enforce the law when violent people refuse to comply? Do you know why there is no history of people living under those rules of non-violence? Because they don't live long enough to write it. I have a neighbor who spouts your kind of nonsense and everytime I present him with such situations, he goes blank then starts trying to deconstruct the argument then tries "arguing by banality" with nonsense like "where there is a will, there is a way" and so on. Often, and seemingly always at critical and opportune times in history, victory goes to the swift. Survival is THE primary moral imperative in every religion. It is a moral DUTY at times to kill those who would murder the good. If you can't understand that, you are a fool who is programmed for extinction. Put down those goofy books you are reading. I've probably read them myself. The important things in life are much simpler than is required to buy into those hopelessly complicated socialist ideologies. |
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AL....According to Phil's tenents, Jesus was a hopeless communalist. He did not advocate killing one's enemies.
So Phil, you have to reject the teachings of the ENTIRE New Testiment. DO IT NOW, Phil.
Renounce the entire New Testiment. |
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You don't have a clue about international politics. It is not driven by ideology but by national interests. Period. We often form alliances with countries, cultures and leaders we find culturally abhorrent for the purpose of defending our national interests. That's the way is has always worked and I see nothing that will change that. There is only ONE America. If we are going to live in peace in a world where most people live under dictatorship, that is just the way it is going to be. You can sort them out in your subjective way into "liberal" and "conservative" but that has no meaning. Your favorite liberal Jimmuh Cahtah conspired with the current Iranian regime to undermine the Shah and it ruined his presidency and the ME has been a mess ever since. That fact alone will kick the legs from under most of your list. Maybe you're not as smart as you think. Intelligence is like being good looking. You don't tell people you are handsome or smart, people tell YOU. |
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So now we get to the crux of the matter. You're an ignorant bible-thumper. This conversation is over. Might as well be shouting "Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar!". Can't talk to people who want to bring back the evil of ignorance that defined the "Dark Ages". I certainly don't need YOU telling telling me your version of Christ. That's the problem with evangelicals. The evangelical part. Everyone is a preacher. Very obnoxious. |
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Get your facts straight. The ME mess started when the West got involved way back when.
The British started and messed up Iraq forevermore.
The US installed the Shah in Iran in the '50s.
Israel was founded thanks to the United States and other Western countries' willingness to back the Zionists when they invaded and kicked the Palestinians out in 1948.
Funny thing about facts. They don't lie, and they don't conform to your arguments if you're on the wrong side of them. |
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Dammit! Here I go laying into you (and not for the first time) for dissing Medved, and in the meantime you go and write a post [Thursday, May, 15, 2008 10:45 PM] that gets EVERYTHING right. The harsh response you received from a couple of our "visitors" should be the last word on the wrongheadedness of their opinions.
John McCain's hero, the man for whom the "teddy bear" was named, had it right when he said what he said about diplomacy. Ronald Reagan knew it when he initiated the process that led to Libya's eventual capitulation as a state sponsor of terror. So, yes; we can speak softly to Iran, through State Department channels -- all the while carrying the big stick, ready to use it if they develop a nuclear weapon and/or attack one of our friends. |
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I don't claim to rule anything. King's X, the hard rock/heavy metal band active since the 80's -- THEY rule. Nothing more than a shameless pander masquerading as a screen name. |
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look at the Dem/libs' guilty reactions to what W said. hahahahaha |
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is not talking to your enemy it is giving them something for nothing.
chamberlin made a deal to give germany half of czechoslavakia (spelling incorrect)
to appease him to stop him from invading other countries.
israel has made peace with egypt and jordan and they once too, said they wanted to wipe israel off the map.
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I don't claim to rule anything. My screen name is nothing more than a shameless pander for the hard rock/heavy metal band (active since the 80's) -- King's X |
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These people think appeasement is a good policy. They have believed that since they sold South Vietnam. President Ford was denied the funding he needed to save saigon. We lost 58,000 men for nothing thanks to the left. They are weak and treat tryants with kid gloves. |
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Mark Steyn just blew Democrats out of the water on this. Dana Perino did a pretty good job of it too.
Love it! |
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Appeasement, which INCLUDES talking with one's adversary (what did Chamberlain do with Hitler; play charades?), is about giving something -- or giving-in on something -- in exchange for peace, NOT "giving them something for nothing".
Regarding Israel; what did they do to Egypt and Jordan BEFORE making peace with them?
That's right. |
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Imagine a scenario where a country attacked you because they hated you, so you managed to defeat them and took some of their land to try and keep them from attacking you again. Then years later, more of there buddies joined in and attacked you (you still have done nothing but existed), then you defeat them as well, and take some more land to make your postion more defensible. Then the bullies that attacked you demand that you give them the land back so that they can attack you again
Hmmmmmmm Welcome to Israel!
By the way, a few more facts- The Balfour declaration granted all this land to Israel, but Britain wanted to play footsies with the Arabs and took away some of the land they were supposed to grant to Israel and gave it to the Heshemite Kingdom of Jordan (which promptly kicked out the people now known as (Palistenians) out of there new country. Thus creating the refugees.
Oh by the way, Israel has offered several times to build real homes for these poeple, but then the Arafats of the world could not blame Israel for their plight,so they refused.
Please read actual historical facts before you start calling everyone an idiot that disagrees with you.
Oh and by the way, the US has turned on Israel several times and actually made her give back the only land that she had that had oil on it. We are not the friend of Israel that we should be. But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. |
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CUBSFAN:
I am a Cubsfan too, however:
I was in the 'Nam. Your post is so very wrong and untrue on SO MANY LEVELS.... it would take a HUGE post to correct it. But I am tired.
There is SO MUCH offal to cut through ...and so little time tonight.
The US military would have left the 'Nam SOONER OR LATER. It was over before it started. |
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Oh................ Please.
I was in the 'Nam. The US military would have HAD to leave soonr or later. And BOTH the Diem and Thieu regimes were BOTH murderous dictatorships. GOOGLE in "Operation Phoenix". |
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Dana Perino didnt even know about the Cuban Missile Crisis. She is HISTORY-FREE and say what she is told to say, like in EVERY Administration....
.... and you "root" for shills? WOW....
Oh, and Mark Steyn know LESS THAN NOTHING about foreign policy. He PROVED IT. |
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Tacodawn:
Dana Perino says what SHE IS TOLD TO SAY.... like in EVERY ADMINISTRATION.
Dana didnt have ANY frame of reference for the Cuban Missible Crisis !!!!!!
She is HISTORY-FREE and FACT-FREE... just like her employer. |
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Tacodawn:
Dana Perino says what SHE IS TOLD TO SAY.... like in EVERY ADMINISTRATION.
Dana didnt have ANY frame of reference for the Cuban Missible Crisis !!!!!!
She is HISTORY-FREE and FACT-FREE... just like her employer. |
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George Bush was quoted saying "I traveled all over this country, i've been to 57 states so far and have one more to go". Dumb George also said "We don't have enougth translators who speak arabic in Afganistan". Poor dumb George, he dosen't know there are only 50 states in the union and they don't speak arabic in Afganistan. Oh wait, it wasn't Bush who said these things it was...........Obama! |
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Im gonna lose my job at daily kos. |
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A big 10-4 to your last post ! |
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I think this was a test for Obama. And he reacted just as Bush planned. If Obama was smart he would've just agreed with the President but no, he automatically thought it was a political attack and fought back well knowing he wants to meet with foreign enemy dictators like he said in July of 07. Bush did not even begin to mention Obama's name in his speech but course Obama figured it was an attack on him, why's that, Barack Hussein Obama?? Feeling guilty on something you've said? |
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Peacefrog2r :
First: It is "What aN Idiot" not "What a Idiot".
Secondly, there is some Arabic spoken in Afghanistan, along with Pashto, and some Vedic based languages, and a bit of Farsi.
Thirdly: BACK UP YOUR QUOTES AND ASSERTIONS in your post WITH SOURCES AND LINKS (hint: radio talk show entertainers' "said sos" DONT COUNT, nor does ANY TV pundit).
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GOPsu_Dom,
First of all, I do not support ANY Presidential candidate.
Secondly.... are you bigoted against Arabic people?
Thirdly, Bush has probably never PLANNED anything in his life. |
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Some people in here:
1) Do not have the true, deep and complex FACTS regarding history and the issues we now face.
2) Have no historical context on ANY issue.
3) Have radio hosts as their main sources of information.
4) Cannot critically think.
5) Obviously don't read.
6) Are unable to see an issue from many different angles.
7) Resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks when they CANNOT Debate AN ISSUE HONESTLY.
8) Parrot what they have been told.
9) Actually CHEER for ppl like Bush, James and Perino.. (this is NO video game or sporting event)
10) Talk about war and combat in a manner that tells me THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN COMBAT.
T. Jefferson said that a vigilent, informed citizenry is crucial to the survival of any republic....
SO: Reading some of the posts in here....One must say: God help this republic! |
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Wrong.........35% of the population speaks Pashto, 50% speak Dari, 11% speak (Uzbek+turkmen) and the rest speak Baluchi,Pashai and Nuristani. Also you can find Obamas 57 state quote on You Tube. How's that for facts? |
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Peacefrog2r,
That is good enough... but it took you a LONG time to Google it.
Ever been in country? That's is where my post info came from.
Your "LOOKED UP- CUT &PASTED" post is more detailed... but MY POST STANDS.
Nice "gotcha" try though. |
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http://www.thesmokehammer.com/images/bush_head2.jpg
..... a pic of the WORST president this bleeding republic has ever had, by ANY measure. |
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Well Iguess your post is wrong now isn't it! ALso your wrong again about me cutting and posting. To be honest and at the risk of the ridicle your about to heep on me, I dont know how to cut and paste. |
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Just me,
I sorry if I offended you. I just believe strongly that Communism what something that needed to be beat. We didn't want another East Germany. The soviets were awfull people. Thank god they were defeated in the end. |
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Cubsfan,
No problem. Totalitarianism in any form. Yep.
How 'bout them Cubs ? LOL
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Peacefrog2r,
I would never ridicule anyone for not knowing how to cut and paste. Ever. I am a computer "know-so-little" LOL |
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I can take anything i want from a liberal including his life because he/she is a spineless fool. You cant talk to me beacuse I just want to do what i want. You can try to appease me, but ill still take what i want. You wont try to stop me because you are a weak coward. You CANNOT try to stop me with force because this goes against what you believe. You think that talk will stop me from doing what i want. You are wrong now and will always be wrong. |
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Far enougth. Thanks. Im gonna split now. Take care and God bless. |
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activated :
WOW!
QUOTE:
Liberals are weak cowards
I can take anything i want from a liberal INCLUDING HIS LIFE because he/she is a spineless fool. You cant talk to me beacuse I just want to do what i want. You can try to appease me, but ill still take what i want. You wont try to stop me because you are a weak coward. You CANNOT try to stop me with force because this goes against what you believe. You think that talk will stop me from doing what i want. You are wrong now and will always be wrong.
------------------------------------------
I am NOT a liberal.
I am NOT a conservative.
NOW.....
YOU TAKE THE PRIZE FOR POSTING a GREAT EXAMPLE of:
Some people in here:
1) Do not have the true, deep and complex FACTS regarding history and the issues we now face.
2) Have no historical context on ANY issue.
3) Have radio hosts as their main sources of information.
4) Cannot critically think.
5) Obviously don't read.
6) Are unable to see an issue from many different angles.
7) Resort to NAME-CALLING !!!! , and ad hominem attacks when they CANNOT Debate AN ISSUE HONESTLY.
8) Parrot what they have been told.
9) Actually CHEER for ppl like Bush, James and Perino.. (this is NO video game or sporting event)
10) Talk about war and combat in a manner that tells me THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN COMBAT.
T. Jefferson said that a vigilent, informed citizenry is crucial to the survival of any republic....
SO: Reading some of the posts in here....One must say: God help this republic!
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Dear Peacefrog2r,
YOU 2 ! Take good care and blessings right back atcha. |
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Meg:
First, I am neither a conservative nor liberal (what a black hole of non-critical thinking labels & ideologies are!)
Thank you. You proved the points in one of my posts.....to wit:Some people in here:
1) Do not have the true, deep and complex FACTS regarding history and the issues we now face.
2) Have no historical context on ANY issue.
3) Have radio hosts as their main sources of information.
4) Cannot critically think.
5) Obviously don't read.
6) Are unable to see an issue from many different angles.
7) Resort to NAME-CALLING !!!! , and ad hominem attacks when they CANNOT Debate AN ISSUE HONESTLY.
8) Parrot what they have been told.
9) Actually CHEER for ppl like Bush, James and Perino.. (this is NO video game or sporting event)
10) Talk about war and combat in a manner that tells me THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN COMBAT.
T. Jefferson said that a vigilent, informed citizenry is crucial to the survival of any republic....
SO: Reading some of the posts in here....One must say: God help this republic!
Meg: GEEZ! READ YOUR POST Back to yourself!
a "HOME RUN" ???
________________________________________________
Oh, by the way (and this is NOT a defense or attack upon either Mr Bush or Mr Obama...let's GET THAT STRAIGHT UP FRONT):
FACTS:
1)The USSR sponsored terrorism worldwide and ALL Presidents from Kennedy onward TALKED WITH THEIR LEADERS. (Oh, and the US govt. has sponsored terrorism historically and other nations met with us.)
2) The same with communist China.
3) The same with Syria (except for Bush 43).
4) Bush 41 and James Baker both went to Syria REPEATEDLY and had Asad I in the White House. I am glad they did so.
So, Meg, is Bush 41 a "traitor and appeaser" because he talked with Asad I ?
Tough Diplomacy & Appeasement are two COMPLETELY different things.
Watching TV pundits and listening to radio hosts who know LESS THAN nothing... can give you brain damage.
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The exact Obama quotes:
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go." -- retrieved from The L.A. Times
The result of fatigue, to be sure; plus, it's spawned a cottage industry producing 57-state flag pins.
From ABC News:
"Obama posited -- incorrectly -- that Arabic translators deployed in Iraq are needed in Afghanistan -- forgetting, momentarily, that Afghans don't speak Arabic.
"We only have a certain number of them and if they are all in Iraq, then its harder for us to use them in Afghanistan," Obama said.
The vast majority of military translators in both war zones are drawn from the local population.
Naturally they speak the local language. In Iraq, that's Arabic or Kurdish. In Afghanistan, it's any of a half dozen other languages -- including Pashtu, Dari, and Farsi.
No sooner did Obama realize his mistake -- and correct himself -- but he immediately made another.
"We need agricultural specialists in Afghanistan, people who can help them develop other crops than heroin poppies, because the drug trade in Afghanistan is what is driving and financing these terrorist networks. So we need agricultural specialists," he said.
So far, so good.
"But if we are sending them to Baghdad, they're not in Afghanistan," Obama said.
Iraq has many problems, but encouraging farmers to grow food instead of opium poppies isn't one of them. In Iraq, oil fields not poppy fields are a major source of U.S. technical assistance.
There are other infrastructure problems both countries share that U.S. advisors have struggled to address -- a lack of safe roads, schools, adequate electricity, etc. -- but Obama did not mention these. |
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Obama protests too much... |
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Founding Fathers hope for our country and the whole world. "A just and solid republican government maintained here, will be a standing monument and example for the aim and imitation of the people of other countries; and I join with you in the hope and belief that...our revolution and its consequences, will ameliorate the condition of man over a great portion of the globe. What a satisfaction have we in the contemplation of the benevolent effects of our efforts, compared with those of the leaders of the other side, who have discountenanced all advances in science as dangerous innovations, have endeavored to render philosophy and republicanism terms of reproach to persuade us that men cannot be governed but by the rod." THomas Jefferson |
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"On the people, therefore, of these United States, it depends whether wise men, or fools, good or bad men, shall govern... Therefore, I will now lift up my voice and cry aloud to the people..." "From year to year be careful in the choice of your representatives and the higher powers of government. Fix your eyes upon men of good understanding and known honesty; men of knowledge,improved by experience; men who fear God and hate covetousness; who love truth and righteousness, and sincerely wish for the public welfare...Let not men openly irreligious and immoral become your legislators... If the legislative body are corrupt, you will soon have bad men for counselors, corrupt judges, unqualified justices,and officers in every department who will dishonor their stations... Never give countenance to turbulent men, who wish to distinguish themselves and rise to power by forming combinations and exciting insurrections against government... I call upon you also to support schools in your towns... It is a debt you owe to your children." |
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Joycey:
UNBELIEVABLE POST FROM YOU THERE.... I actually thought you were kidding !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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kingsRrulz:
I appreciate that you - ONE PERSON IN HERE - has actually provided some sources to back up their comments. Thank you.
That is more than what most of the sheep-le-esque mentality does in here.
WARNING: Listening to political talk show hosts of ANY ilk or stripe or persuasion CAN CAUSE BRAIN DAMAGE, MENTAL ILLNESS, and THE LACK OF FACTS. |
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I think a constructive voice is called for here. It's patently easy to pile onto Kevin James. Let's "ThereButForTheGraceOfGod" ourselves a little, and offer something constructive. Kevin just needs to brush up a little - something that anyone can appreciate. In the spirit of keeping this conversation positive, I offer a short list of salient books and articles that may help ALL those of us who didn't exactly dot every i in history class:
BACKGROUND: "Timmy's Cereal Box Synopsis of the Treaty of Versailles" by Mank Inde
LEAD UP TO WWII: "Dick and Jane Proudly Join Hitler Jungen" by Hal O. Caust
RETROSPECTIVE: "How'd All Those Nazi War Criminals End Up In Our Own CIA and Media? Where Are They Today?" by P. Freely
These writings will give one a fair and balanced look at our Great Country's history. And I'd just like to take this opportunity to tell you all what GREAT AMERICANS we all are!!!!!
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We are failing in our duty to our country and therefore the world. The candidates must be held up to these standards. These standards are not old-fashioned or out-dated. They are set in stone.
George W has pointed out to we the people a danger to be avoided. We cannot make concessions with radicals or terrorists. We cannot be naive about this enemy. It is a topic that must be openly discussed before we choose a leader. George W cares about our success in Iraq, which will effect the whole Middle-east. We should also, for our sake and for the rest of the world. |
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Wasn't Neville Chamberlain's nickname 'Wilt?' |
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I hear callers calling hosts "Great Americans" and vica versa. Is "Great American" some kind of Leo Straussian code word? |
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Obama has so much baggage and has said so many comments highlighting his inexperience and radical leftist views, the Republican machine should have a field day come Fall. A few suggestions for ads using his own words and or those within the Democratic circles':
- Pastor Wright's comment about Obama being another "politician" (after Obama disavowed the pastors views, despite having been a member of his church for 20+ years)
- Obama saying that he would meet with terrorist leaders (ex: Hamas) without preconditions, showing that he can't really be trusted with national security
-Obama's comment about small town folks clinging to guns and religion, showing him to be a liberal elitist
-Clinton saying how McCain has experience and that Obama gave a speech way back when
-Reports about his personal associations such as Ayers, Wright, etc., showing poor judgment and his true convictions
-Price tag of Obama's social engineering programs, resulting in higher taxes
-Higher taxes and govt regulations resulting in further damage to economy
-Consequences of Obama's proposal for immediate pull out from Iraq on national security
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mccain gave a speech yesterdy. he described it as important.
conservatives decided to stay away perhaps, they said, if we put our hands over our ears very tightly he will go away. |
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When and what unit where you with at Quang Tri
Just curious because I was there also. |
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Sorry all you deniers of appeasement. Whenever a person sits down to talk to ANYONE certain presuppositions are always at play. I pre-suppose and you pre-suppose we want the same thing- ie:peace/ stability/equity etc. etc. In actuality when Chamberlain spoke with Hitler it was less appeasing than for us to talk with the Iranian madman. Hitler (though lying- and his recent actions demonstrated it) was willing to say he wanted peace and would lie about his willingness to have the same goal as the Western nations. In the nut job from Iran's case he holds back not at all. He wants and desires the destruction of a sovereign state (Israel); he sponsors terrorism around the world and in particular against our own troops in Iraq and elsewhere, he calls us the great Satan, he denies the holocaust. Beyond that he is a reasonable man capable of dialogue about what exactly? If your neighbor down the road hits and attacks your children, poisons your animals and threatens to kill you off do you walk down to his home and ask to sit down with him, or do you call the police or buy a weapon and/or tell you children to avoid that area? Common sense dictates that you protect yourself. Now, if that individual states he/she wants to talk and is willing to denounce their previous behaviors and words well then you talk. When Obama invokes Reagan w/ the Soviets it is disingenuous as Reagan had demands he stuck with and not talk to them until there was a thaw in the rhetoric from the Kremlim (a change of view which amounted to be willing to concede on issues). The wak job from Iran fits none of these criteria. Hey Libs hating Bush is no reason to throw away your entire mind! |
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bush and petraeus not only talked to sunnis who had been killing americans 18 months ago (doesn't that qualify as terrorism) but are paying them 300 dollars a month not to kill americans now.
talk about appeasement.
reagan talked to gorbachev in iceland.
americans have had enough of this name calling and fear mongering.
if bush has been successful in any aspect of his mideast policy maybe he would be credible but all he an cheney know is
no talk--- just war war war.
that is why they have the lowest approval ratings of any adminstration in histroy.
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Now that Bush negotiated with Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi, is Libya a democratic nation? And did John McCain's choice to manage the GOP convention this summer lobbyist Doug Goodyear, negotiate with Myanmar's Junta government create a democratic nation? Tell me Michael Medved, Criticizing Barack Obama is fine with me, like Bush, your fearless leader, is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, but to say he's trying to appease Iran is farcical.
9/11 was an inside and Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich for president |
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You guys are a true reflection of the nutitude which has gripped this nation. Facts don't matter- only ideology. Gaddafi was a scared rat after the invasion of Iraq/ and Reagan ONLY agreed with a talk with Gorbachev after Gorbachev instituted a more liberal line and the US had placed missles in Europe. Strength was what worked with these monstrous regimes. Petreus talked with the Sunni's as the US put pressure on the insurgents. All of this is FORCE. These groups respect nothing else. History is replete with this stuff. But hey "we were behind 9/11 right?" and "Hey, we probably caused WWII and WWI." We probably really ARE the evil empire and Bush is the great Satan and the Martians are coming, and Osama is George Washington and what the hell maybe Manson is Jesus?! Why not? In the far left world ALL IS POSSIBLE!! |
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I honestly can't believe there is even a question on the issue of negotiation with an entire foreign nation such as Iran in such a critical time as this!! it's not as if the u.S. is inheriting a position of weakness by simply communicating with the Arab nations of the Middle East who hate us so... I mean, there shouldn't even be this argument in the first place because anyone who says that negotiating and appeasement are the same thing are simply idiots. there is a finer line drawn by definition of appeasement and it has never ever even come close to resembling dimplomacy. Diplomacy is something that happens in order for world governments to communicate with each other, not appeasement, or selse you clearly don't speak the same english or even have the brain to understand that simple fact. There is no solid connection between appeasement and proposing to talk to President Ahmadinejad, it's simply ridiculous to say that and is obviously only because the republican media spouts out the tiniest connections they can find with any remark and the idiotic fools like yourselves who even dream to compare negotiation with appeasement eat it up and make it your own blindlessly, so I honestly pity anyone here who even starts to compare foreign policy with appeasement, or else every single leader int he world, past or present, is guilty of appeasement in your terms. It's not like anyone is proposing to abandon our military strength and never use it to enforce measures to keep the world from harm ,but you can't flaunt that kind of crap in the faces of other cultures, nations, religions, or else all you do is make a hugely arrogant opinion and reputation for yourself in the world community, so, Phil, it's not the question of whether to negotiate with Iran or whether or not to let Iran know that we will use action and force if neccessary, it is simply what to do as we find out Iran's level of compliance. |
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So, we negotiate, we negotiate with persuasion, we negotiate a message shared by the international community, we negotiate clearly, and we don't simply portray ourselves to the world as a bunch of hillbillies with guns ready to start an armed conflict unless every other country, especially because Iran is Islamic and anti-Israeli,simply bows down to us, it is a horrible policy of intimidation and ignorant blabbering that is obviously what you people see would be effectuive, of course out of historical ignorance to the ocuntless times this policy just doesn't work. So quit even using the term appeaser, you wouldn't even have drawn that conclusion or taken that view Barack's policy if you had known about it when you first heard of it unless Bush's speechwriter hadn't thrown in that crap that he knew the blind fervor of the Republicans would get the American people to believe. |
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McCain Was For Talking To Hamas Before He Was Against It…
RUBIN: “Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?”
McCAIN: “They’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it’s a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not | |