Monday, June 30, 2008
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"[A]side From Being Tortured, What Did McCain Do to Excel in the Military?"
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Posted by:
Carol Platt Liebau at
10:11 PM
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Lefty John Aravosis over at AmericaBlog wants to know: "Honestly, aside from being tortured, what did John McCain do to excel in the military?"
If this doesn't expose the gap -- in sensibility, understanding and everything else -- between the left and the right in this country, nothing ever will. For sheer ingratitude and disgracefulness, it's a hard question to beat.
I'm waiting for all the proponents of "civility" who condemned "conservative bloggers" for criticizing John Kerry's stories about his military service and his behavior after it to start sputtering with outrage.
These are the people who support Barack Obama. This is the kind of argument they're willing to make to defeat John McCain.
Here are the facts for any honest lefty who wants to traffic in truth rather than smears. An overview:
From his five years in a North Vietnamese prison camp to his tenure as the Navy’s liaison to the Senate, John McCain’s Navy record boils down to a series of unadorned paragraphs that bestow upon him some of the nation’s top military honors.
That includes 17 awards for excellence, including the Legion of Merit, where he was praised for providing Navy leaders “with sage advice and sound judgment for enacting critical legislation during a period of severe fiscal constraint” in his capacity as liaison to the Senate from the Navy’s Office of Legislative Affairs.
And for details on the torture that Aravosis dismisses so cavalierly, check out this podcast (##89-91) (HT: Ed Morrissey at Hot Air). It's not pretty. What's more, he was "singled out" for especially brutal treatment because of his father's and grandfather's roles in the Navy. And yet he still refused the enemy's offers for early release.
John McCain wasn't my first choice to be Republican nominee. But the sheer indecency of these kinds of tactics may be helping to ensure that even less-than-enthused conservatives will start flocking to McCain's banner.
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"Anything to win!"
He is showing the kind of person he really is: willing to say or do ANYTHING to win the Presidency.
Say what you will about McCain, he at least still has some principles. |
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first of all, Obama didn't say this, a blogger did. You people can't read can you?
And you are the same blithering idiots who denigrated Kerry's service four years ago! Can't you see how hypocritical you idiots are?
Guess what? Being a POW doesn't qualify you to be Commander in Chief! Claiming so makes you look like a moron. Being a POW is a testament to fortitude, not ability.
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Sorry, ReTardaBook -
The people that denigrated Kerry's service were follow military - not bloggers. If an 85-er like Aravosis is the best you've got, bring it on.
As for fortitude, looks like Obomber can't even keep his sorry positions straight while being king of progressive hill.
I don't know who'd be more disappointed with an Obomber presidency - progs, when Obomber is proven a flip-flopping, spineless imbecile; or conservatives, when Obomber is proven a flip-flopping, spineless imbecile
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Btw did you bother to read Faith of My Fathers.
I didn't get to read Kerrys' epic abut his three months in Vietnam. |
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Wednesday morning, beginning at 6:00 a.m., the members of the incoming class of U.S. Naval Academy candidate report for the first day of their Plebe Summer. If Obama and any of his supporters and surrogates wants to get their rears out of bed to go observe one day of their activities, get out there to Annapolis.
I'll take a guy who has the character to make it through Annapolis, a naval career that included five and a half years as a POW, and 25 years in Congress over Obama--an unaccomplished, half-a**, double-talking, twit--any day of the week. |
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My choice is between a guy we wouldn't even be talking about if he weren't black who had his character formed in Jeremiah Wright's church
or
a man who, as only a four-year part of his life, had his character developed in a program like this
http://www.usna.edu/PlebeSummer/
McCain all the way. Obama has his surrogates engaging in this because he needs the distraction. It's part of the four-corners stall game he's decided to play. |
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I see our method of operation is to spew a few words about the right maybe argue wih a couple of right wing bloggers then duck and run to the next blogspew some more gobblygook and duck and run like a democrat and the mainstream media. So pathetic!!!!! |
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pent up anger come from? I'm truly worried about you ,don't you have anyone to hug you and release some of this tension that is obviously turned you into some bitter hate filled obsessive creature whose only purpose is to write negative posts on how the GOP has screwed up your life.I have nothing but pity for you and your pathetic existence. |
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John McCain didn't return from Vietnam and accuse his fellow soldiers of being murders and he didn't throw his metals over the fence during a protest of US policy. Also, John McCain wasn't in Cambodia during Christmas of 1968 like Kerry claimed. He lied. Also, he indicated that Nixon sent him there, He lied.
I know of no soldier, who served with John McCain that has made disparaging remarks about his service. In contrast, many sailers who served with Kerry both under his command and his superiors took issue with John Kerry's service.
There have been two books written that disputed John Kerry's claims, and as of yet I have not learned of any proof disputing the assertions in the two books. True, I have heard democratic partisans mouthing off about the unfairness and veracity of the books, but no actual proof to refute the evidence presented in the books. |
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like to have Kimber around standing on her soapbox telling us we're all crazy, and that things are our fault, then she ducks and runsaway and resurfaces on another subject then the cycle starts all over again.. So predictable!! |
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There are names that inhabit a pantheon. Some did not come back; some arrived so tattered as to scarcely resemble their former selves. We know them as heroes.
John McCain, like Gen. Jonathon Wainwright of Baatan and Corridor returned home tattered and shattered. Like Gen. Wainwright, he survived a brutal foe. Like Gen. Wainwright, he inhabits a unique place in the conscience of Americans.
Other names etched in the pantheon include Col. Fred Cherry whose time at the Hanoi Hilton after ejecting over North Vietnam included the type of medical care that would be visited upon Sen. McCain. Only on the island of Dr. Moreau would medical attention for these downed fliers have been more unforgiving.
Like Gen. Wainwright and Col. Cherry, John McCain demonstrates his war imprisonment with dignity and modesty in his daily life.
We know John McCain by one word that is etched deep in our understanding of him. One word that is known by those that remember Gen. Wainwright, Col. Cherry, the airmen of Stalag Luft I and III, those that remember Harold Russell's loss and his life after that loss, and those that can evoke Sgt. York and Audie Murphy as well as all the others; we know them by the word duty.
Duty is where they excelled. Duty is their claim to the roll. Call the roll. Call Sen. McCain.
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The Swift Boaters convinced me a purple heart means nothing because they apparently give them to anyone. Just kidding of course I respect John Kerry for his service and for his attempts to end the needless war sooner. I also respect McCains service. The Swift boaters and the republicans directly attacked a war hero and a 3 times purple heart recipient John Kerry who served in the war zone in Vietnam and instead choose a chickenhawk, AWOL draft dodger cocaine drunkard for our president who has since sent 4,000 men to their deaths on a lie.
No one that I know of attacked John McCain's service but Westly Clark, who helped win Bosnia without losing a single soldier, simply stated a fact that being shot, down, captured and tortured does not make you an expert in foreign affairs.
Your feigned outrage at this incident and disregard and support for what was done to Kerry shows what a foul person you are.
It took Jim Webb and the Democratic party to get the new GI bill passed. Soon and regularly more and more soldiers are figuring out just who really supports them and who sends them to battle with insufficient amour.
I am so happy about the coming elections. You disgusting fakes are gonna get the butt kicking you deserve for selling out our country and supporting the war profiteers. |
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"If this doesn't expose the gap -- in sensibility, understanding and everything else -- between the left and the right in this country, nothing ever will. For sheer ingratitude and disgracefulness, it's a hard question to beat."
But it's exactly the sort of things that Ann Coulter's been saying about McCain! |
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do a 30 second search on Wesley Clark. He is not without his faults. From most articles I read about Kosovo, Clark almost started WWIII and because of his actions in Kosovo he was replaced as SACEUR.
You might want to do some research and find out why Joint Chiefs Chairman Shelton and several other chiefs didn't even bother to attend his retirement ceremonies.
Don't make Clark out to be the military hero to beat all heroes. I tend to think there may be some other military people to come out and lambast Clark and his service if the attacks keep going against McCain.
Obama may try to claim his hands are clean on this issue, but he can't convince me of that. All one has to do is look at how he handled running for office in Chicago to determine what type of politician he is. He will do and say anything to win.
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A freudian slip or just a simple mistake either way it's funny.Now I am not thrilled with McCain but I am more impressed with a serviceman who actually fought and served our country than one that just ordered bombing which by the way was perfectly okay with the left and never questioned.Didn't Obama admit to cocaine use also? I guess no ones perfect. |
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One big advantage John McCain has over Barack Obama is experience. He served his country bravely--something that Democrats have repeatedly said is important if their anti-Bush rhetoric is to be believed--so now they're trying to find ways to denigrate his service record. It turns out that McCain had a very honorable record, and oh yeah, he has the ultimate trump card to combat charges that what he did was never dangerous or heroic. In a few weeks they'll start tearing down the other part of his experience advantage: his 26 years in Congress compared to Obama's one unremarkable term. |
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We don't like OBama for his lack of experience...Period. It ain't because he's black, (and half white, too), nope!
We don't want higher taxes and we don't want someone whose bus will soon be able to propel itself in Flintstone fashion...He has dissed his own voters, presumably many blacks in favor of private campaigning parties as opposed to the lowly box-checking dollar donating public on tax returns. Yep, those poor SOB's, the poor and poverty stricken blacks, whites, and hispanics cannot even donate 2-4k that the individuals at the Soreasss parties can.Their dollar doesn't mean jack shitt to Ovomit. Still see nothing wrong with that picture Monkey Girl? Still got your hands over your ears? (He's not a Christian, he's not a racist and he will make everything better than that meam ol RW Bush)...Is that what you're saying? No surprise there, hey? |
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The leftists are STUPID.McCain has been through more for this country and was offered the chance to leave early but turned it down.Obama is another Jimmy Carter with his economic policies,Obama voted for everybody that makes $31,850/year or more.
Besides,apparently Obama's new campaign slogan must be "No We Can't",because he says no to coal,no to drilling to get our own oil,and no to nuclear power,plus his understanding of the economy is like Jimmy Carter's,and Obama has 0 military experience.Obama is running on empty. |
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I've read where some of the authentic swift-boat veterans bitterly resent the use of the coinage "swift-boating" when refering to the attacks by Obama and his surrogages on McCain's military record.
I suggest a different coinage "gutterballing."
It could be defined as “a weak attempt to knock McCain down with the attempt far more often than not veering off lamely into the gutter.”
The nice thing about it is that it brings back to mind the wonderful image of Obama bowling an anemic 37 in Pennsylvania.
Though it’d be a mouthful, the corresponding blogging term would be “gutterball-blogging.”
Again, I like the idea of tying a humuliating event that is so closely tied to Obama and that many people still remember about him.
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First Clark did not say anything bad about McCains service record. You guys are so desperate to be outraged its ridiculous.
Clark said being shot down from a fighter plane and taken prisoner is not a requirement to be president.
The Swift Boaters directly attacked Kerry's record and they demeaned the Purple Heart. |
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Clark said: "Everybody admires John McCain's service as a fighter pilot, his courage as a prisoner of war. There's no issue there. He's a great man and an honorable man. But having served as a fighter pilot _ and I know my experience as a company commander in Vietnam _ that doesn't prepare you to be commander in chief in terms of dealing with the national strategic issues that are involved. It may give you a feeling for what the troops are going through in the process, but it doesn't give you the experience first hand of the national strategic issues."
McCain on the SwiftBoat Ad
McCain : I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crewmates have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.
The disgrace flows from the Swift-boaters and their supporters. |
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This whole argument is just pretty dumb. Here are a few facts to begin with.
McCain has never ever said that his time as a prisoner of war is related to his military leadership. He has said that his 25 years in the military including high profile jobs before being a senator focused on foregin affairs has given him authority in these areas.
McCain has said that his time as a prisoner of war relates to his character. His ability to deal with adversity. His ability to forgive.
In the case of Kerry I definately believe those attacks on his medals were dumb and McCain was right to denounce them, but the key assertion by the swift boaters against him was never refuted and the American people could easily see it. John Kerry denounced and rejected his comrades when he came back from the war and then embraced them when it was politically expedient. This was wrong on so many levels that it dealt Kerry the death blow.
Serving in the military is more about honor, respect and dealing with adversity than a job resume builder for president. Most presidents were governors anyway with minimal or lower level military experience. But even lowly officers like JFK used their experience in the military as a character builder that supported their entire career. |
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I know that this may be mean to say, but do we really have to get enraged at what is said on a liberal blog. If the NYT was blasting McCain's service it would be one thing, but I never heard of that blogger before and I have a heard time taking what he said seriously.
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" No one that I know of attacked John McCain's service but Westly (sic) Clark"
Clarks' comments are one of 8 Dem. attacks on McCain's military experience. Here are three other prominent examples:
WV Dem. Senator Jay Rockefeller: ""McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."
IA Dem. Senator Tom Harkin:
"Republican presidential candidate John McCain's family background as the son and grandson of admirals has given him a worldview shaped by the military, "and he has a hard time thinking beyond that. I think he's trapped in that. Everything is looked at from his life experiences, from always having been in the military, and I think that can be pretty dangerous."
The 8th, from an Obama advisor, argued Monday that the former POW's isolation during the Vietnam War has hobbled the Arizona senator's capacity as a war-time leader.
“Sadly, Sen. McCain was not available during those times, and I say that with all due respect to him," said informal Obama adviser Rand Beers. "I think that the notion that the members of the Senate who were in the ground forces or who were ashore in Vietnam have a very different view of Vietnam and the cost that you described than John McCain does because he was in isolation essentially for many of those years and did not experience the turmoil here or the challenges that were involved for those of us who served in Vietnam during the Vietnam war."
This is an orchestrated campaign to turn one of McCain's biggest positives (his character, as demonstrated by his military service and POW status) into a negative.
You need to either read more or proclaim less, muirgeo. |
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opened the door to "qualifications" for being POTUS. Let's see how the empty suit Obama stacks up.
Even Clark couldn't come up with qualifications for Obama being POTUS. As noted on another blog, about the only thing Clark gives Obama qualifications for is being some type of customer service rep. |
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McCain's service to this country is above reproach. I think most would agree on that point and also agree that in and of itself, it does not solely qualify him to be POTUS. We should further agree that it does add to his resume'.
So let's talk about oblama's service. Oh wait, he didn't serve did he? Must have been one of those conscientious cowards, oops, I mean objectors! Okay, so in fairness, let's talk about his experience in the Senate. Oops, been there one term, with most of that spent on the campaign trail.
Anything else you lefty-loons want to talk about? I dare all of you to contine attacking McCain in regard to his experience in any arena because it will force you to talk about oblama, which would be a short discussion indeed. Oh, did he tell you he was a community organizer and he was a state senator. |
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McCain didn't fly his combat missions at high altitude and just drop bombs. He flew A-4's, a small slow light attack aircraft. These guys flew down among the weeds and dropped their bombs with pinpoint accuracy. When flying into North Vietnam, our aircraft were politically restricted to certain avenues of approach which were full of anti-aircraft missiles and guns. The fact that he flew 23 combat missions before being shot down is testament to his skills as an aviator and his courage even before becoming a prisoner of war. |
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McCain's service, like many others, was not herioc. He served his country and that's commendable but not herioc.
Being a pilot does not make one herioc.
Starting the Lexington fire doesn't make one herioc.
Getting shot down doesn't make one herioc.
Being a prisoner of war doesn't make one herioc.
Being tortured doesn't make one herioc.
Rather,recipients of the silver star are heroes.
Recipients of the bronze star are heroes.
Recipients of the Congressional metal of honor are heroes.
Recipients of the purple heart may or may not be heroes.
Gen Clark was technically corrtect: McCain's service does not qualify him to be president. Rather, everythng we know about him tells us that we can rely on him to forsake any of his associates in the name of his self-rightenouness, a contemptable man. |
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