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Wednesday, October 04, 2006
Fred Phelps Sinks Lower Still (Audio: Mike Gallagher Convinces Phelps Crowd Not to Protest Amish Funerals)
Posted by: Mary Katharine Ham at 10:30 AM

I know it's hard to believe.

First, there were the God Hates Fags signs.

Then, protesting outside any church that offers support to HIV-positive parishioners.

Then, protesting outside fallen soldiers' funerals.

Now, the most reviled Baptist* church in the world will protest the funerals of the little girls who were murdered in Paradise, Penn. this week.

Naomi Rose Edersole, 7

Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12

Marian Fisher, 13

Mary Liz Miller, 8

Lina Miller, 7

Because, in Phelps' world, Amish girls between the ages of 7 and 13 are well-known abetters of the "radical homosexual agenda," and their funerals are the most appropriate place to protest that support.

*Spit* Could. Not. Be. Sicker.

Update: Commenter pilgrimsix points me to this Blackfive post on the intentions of Phelps and his followers in protesting funerals.

Update: *I should add that the Phelps church calls itself "Baptist," but isn't actually affiliated with, you know, normal Baptists who bring green-bean casserole to grieving families, not more grief.

Update: Salem's own radio host Mike Gallagher is doing the actual Lord's work-- not the Lord of "God Hates Fags" signage, which seems to be a very different one from the one I know-- by offering the Phelpses radio time if they'll promise not to protest these poor girls' funerals.

Normally, I'd object to someone legitimizing these freaks with a platform, but they're beyond legitimizing, so I think it's probably not a bad trade to spare the poor people of Pennysylvania some more sadness.

Plus, Fred Phelps' way with words has the effect of making any platform you give him look a whole lot like this one. Give 'im enough rope, as they say.

Update: Here's audio of the Gallagher interview with Shirley Phelps-Roeper, daughter of Fred Phelps. He agrees to give her an hour of his show if they'll skip the funerals. She says okay, but it has to be before the funerals.

Trusting that she is, indeed, a righteous woman, he takes her at her word. As I said, I'm not averse to giving her an hour of radio. Why? They'll hang themselves on national radio. Here's Shirley on the girls' afterlife status:

Phelps: "No, they're not going to Hell. They are in Hell. It's an immediate transition."

Gallagher: "So, am I going to Hell?"

Phelps: "It sounds like you are."

Sounds like somebody is.



View in ascending order View in descending order
GuyInCT writes: Monday, October, 09, 2006 8:36 PM
Why does Phelps hate the Amish?
The Amish? I'm totally confused. The Amish don't accept homosexuality. I read that they work with them to help them remain abstinent. And as for helping elect a governor who accepts homosexual marriage, I don't even think the Amish vote. Please explain. Does not compute.
Proud Lib writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 11:28 PM
To Mary Katharine
I would say the "you" is anyone who thinks that being gay is somehow "less" than being straight. I don't think that all who do are the moral equivalent of Phelps, nor do I think they necessarily hate gay people, but to me, having a "moral problem" with homosexuality equals homophobia, even if it is not Phelps's particularly outrageous brand. I do not say "the homosexual lifestyle," as gay people, like straight people, have many different lifestyles. Some gay couples (and straight couples) are monogamous, some are not; some gay couples (and straight couples) have children, some do not; some gay people live in small towns, others in large cities; etc. I realize I won't change many minds here, but if I can persuade a few people to examine their attitudes about gays and perhaps become more accepting, I will feel I've accomplished something.

And no, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is evil; if I did, I probably wouldn't even try to have this discussion. I'd say they're probably nice people who carry what I think is an unfortunate and unnecessary prejudice. Was everyone who didn't support, or just didn't think much about, voting rights for blacks in the pre-civil rights era the moral equivalent of a Klansman? No, but they needed to stop and think about their attitudes. Is a casual anti-Semite the moral equivalent of Hitler? No, but he or she is not exactly a friend to Jews. To me, likewise it is with attitudes toward gay people. And we can have debates about identity politics and public policy, but I don't think outright bias has any place in the laws of the land.
Mary Katharine writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 6:58 PM
Proud Lib
Who is the "you" you address in your comment? It it just general or directed at someone?

I think there's certainly room for heterosexuals to question various policies the Left gay-rights groups endorse without being homophobic. For instance, a lot of thing the traditional, Left gay-rights groups suggest are big-government and indentity-politics-y. I don't like either. Does that mean I don't like gay people? Does that mean I'm just cloaking the Phelps inside me with more delicate language? Certainly not.

One can even have policy concerns about changing the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples without being homophobic. Or, one can have a moral problem with the homosexual lifestyle without hating gay people, just as someone can have a moral problem with sex before marriage without hating everyone who has it.
Sensei Matt writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 6:46 PM
Phelps
Many have asked "Where is the outrage in the Muslim community about the Jihadist?"

So to make sure no one can say the same about Christians let me be the first to voice my outrage at Phelps. And as a Christian HE DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME, NOR DOES HE SPEAK FOR GOD!!!!
Proud Lib writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 6:37 PM
Phelps is heinous--but all homophobia is
Phelps and his crew are beneath contempt, but it's funny, people seem a lot more outraged now that he's gone beyond protesting only at funerals of gay people (granted, it's really bizarre how he stretches his insane dogma to say that any tragedy that occurs is somehow God's punishment to America for being too gay-friendly--which America, unfortunately, is not). Now, I know that not everyone who opposes equal rights for gay people, or even those who believe homosexuality is a sin, would endorse Phelps's "God Hates Fags" worldview. But it's all homophobia; Phelps's is just expressed in the most brazen, offensive, hateful way possible. It's easy to condemn Fred Phelps. It's more of a challenge to scrutinize your own belief system and ask yourself why you have something against gays.
sufficient_reason writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 5:56 PM
LOL Karl
Seriously, this family has been around for over 20 years protesting at the slightest provocation. Almost all of its adult family members are lawyers and above all they love the media attention. There are no *members* of this *Church* except the Phelps family...and it appears the god they worship is their demented father and his demented beliefs. While they would welcome the opportunity to sue for assault, etc., and have filed their share of frivolous lawsuits over the years and engaged in all sorts of courtroom antics in the process (I know Fred Sr has been disbarred and at least one of his kids censored or disbarred), they are driven by their father's meglomania.

You cannot drive anywhere in Topeka, Kansas on any given day without seeing them at SOME spot with their signs (normally their pre-teen girl children are sent out for this purpose.) It is truly a sick bunch. The only thing that seems to bother them is lack of media attention. So, Gallagher's offer was truly inspired and while I hate to see them get airtime, I would prefer that to them protesting the funerals of these dear young girls.
Thrillhouse writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 1:23 PM
Private…
I don’t know much about Amish culture or their burial traditions, however I would think/hope that any burial service would be on private property which would prevent these butt clowns from getting anywhere near them.
Pilgrimsix is right. These dirtballs use religion as a front, but many of them are lawyers who are trying to bait someone in to assaulting them or violating their right to protest so they can sue. It’s just a money making scam.

BeeBee writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 12:34 PM
This is a job for ...
The Patriot Guard Riders. I can't imagine they'd let Phelps and his ilk (or should that be ick?) desecrate these girls' funerals. I've also seen people on other message boards already making plans to be in the area to help shield the families from these creeps.
Karl writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 12:21 PM
A protest scene I'd like to see...
I rather wish Phelps and his crew would protest at a Muslim funeral.
pilgrimsix writes: Wednesday, October, 04, 2006 10:57 AM
Phelps' intentions
MKH, follow the link to a post on Blackfive that hightlights the fact Phelps is trying to provoke a violent reaction so that he can file a lawsuit.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/08/the_intent_of_f.html
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