Monday, January 07, 2008
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The Hillary Comeback
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Posted by:
Patrick Ruffini at
10:16 PM
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I’m not saying I buy this entirely, but let me play Devil’s advocate. Even if he wins New Hampshire as he seems certain to, I’m not sure that Obama has much better than even odds for the nomination. The key to this analysis lies in the Democratic calendar. From Wednesday morning until February 5th, the Democrats have only two delegate-awarding events: Nevada on January 19th and South Carolina on January 26th. Assume that Obama’s momentum hits its high water mark on Wednesday. He has to keep it up for 27 days under withering assault from the most ruthless political machine in Democratic history. And with an expected win in S.C., Obama can’t squeeze much more juice from the orange for the next four weeks. Unlike New Hampshire, Obama simply can’t ride momentum from state-to-state-to-state for the next month. There are 11 days from the New Hampshire primary until the Nevada caucus. Of all the early states, Nevada has been the most Clinton-friendly (though there hasn’t been any polling since early December). Four days before, a full week of settling out from New Hampshire, will be the Las Vegas debate, which will be covered as yet another make-or-break moment. It will happen during a lull in their calendar, so it will leave a bigger mark than New Hampshire’s drive-by debates. And let’s remember that the debates (with one glaring exception) have been Clinton’s strong suit. Nevada is also our first opportunity to see what a non-retail state looks like. It’s off the beaten path out West, so it hasn’t gotten as many visits as South Carolina. The population is highly transient, the core of the Democratic electorate is Vegas hotel workers, they haven’t had an early caucus/primary before, so the citizenry isn’t as inured in 24/7 presidential watching as IA/NH or even SC. Obama won’t be able to just turn on the charm here. Obama is at his height with highbrow voters and African Americans; Nevada has relatively few of each. Without any polling to go on, my instinct says these should be Clinton voters. Now, there is a chance Obama could tap into Hispanics, but he’d have to jump over Bill Richardson, who can be expected to run interference for Hillary. Why is Nevada important? Because I expect Hillary to make here stand there and practically skip South Carolina. She will have some time to right the ship during the longest pause in the calendar to date, the same way Bush had 18 days to avert disaster in South Carolina. These are naturally her voters. If she loses, we can start to talk about it being over. But not till then. Here’s how it could unfold. Hillary loses tomorrow night. Obama jumps out to a respectable 10 point national lead. The Clinton camp announces a big shakeup on Thursday, with an party old poo-bah brought in as “National Chairman” with day-to-day responsibilities. This is coupled with a new aggressiveness, with slashing negative ads that can work in drive-by states but couldn’t work in the living-room type atmosphere in New Hampshire. Hillary commits to a do-or-die strategy in Nevada, with the goal of racking up on one “W” before 2/5. She has a strong debate performance on the 15th. It’s a dead heat going in. Then Clinton narrowly prevails. The press starts writing the “Clinton comeback” and “Obama slips” stories. Obama wins South Carolina by single digits, but Clinton surprises and wins Florida’s beauty contest. Momentum is now back to an even keel and the national numbers are a dead heat. Obama remains strong in the red states and is guaranteed Illinois — but his states will be underrepresented in delegates. Clinton wins New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut — and it all comes down to California. Hillary narrowly wins there. With superdelegates, Clinton now has a not insignificant lead in the delegate count post February 5th. If the Democratic calendar were as compressed as the Republican one, or structured like the 2004 calendar with delegate events every week and Kerry emerging to make six Groundhog Day-like victory speeches in a row, Obama could bandwagon. But with the scarcity of events, and a potentially major stumbling block on the 19th, I’m still a little skeptical. I will leave with one final thought. It is rare in recent history that primaries are as linear as 2004 or how we expect 2008 to go. Momentum usually shifts (even Kerry had a little hiccup in Wisconsin). Early state shockers that seemed all-important at the time wear out as time goes on. And in Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama faces an opponent with an unusually deep reservoir of political skill and grassroots goodwill. His performances has been soaring at times, but it is also much more uneven. Historically, steady-as-she-goes is what wins primaries, not unevenness. He has had some cringe-inducing moments that displayed his unpreparedness (his terrorism answer in the first debate; his Bhutto reaction). One more and he could instantly validate the central Clinton critique of his candidacy. It seems doubtful that he will not be tested before February 5th, and he has very little margin for error. The above is a somewhat old school view of the primary process. It assumes 2008 unfolds somewhat the same as past primaries. But rules work, until all of a sudden they don’t. This could be a precedent-breaking year, like 1964 for the GOP and 1968 for the RFK Democrats. We could see something utterly remarkable happen: the hostile takeover of both parties by rejectionist forces from within, McCain-Huckabee on the Republican side, and Obama’s anti-Clintonism for the Democrats. If it did happen, it would signal that something dramatic has changed. But the cynic in me still says we have moments like this just about every four years. Until I’m proven otherwise, I’m not ready to write an obituary for “politics-as-usual” just yet. Hillary is down but not out.
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Oh my goodness, I thoughtful commentary on the Democratic race. Yes, the overwhelming majority who frequent TH are conservatives and anti-liberals, but the Democratic race does matter if you want to make an intelligent pick for the Repub candidate.
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i didn't expect it and am not sure it is real but it appears obama has caught the wave of a movement.
i was watching a c-span broadcast of one of his speeches and this young woman (30ish) says " i am republican and this is the second time i have come to see him. i can't get enough".
folks that is the stuff of historical significance.
not since bobby kennedy. |
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It's hard to say what effect Hillary's tears will have. Immediately after the event today her numbers rose by a couple of points against Obama.
I don't see how any of them, either party, can keep up the pace day after week after month without going into meltdown. Hotels, on planes and buses all the time, lousy food on the run, fourteen-hour days of Meet & Greet, media lying in wait to shoot them dead, never seeing home for weeks on end, and having to look and act and sound 100% perfect all the time. If they do the slightest human thing (get tears in their eyes, comb their hair, blow their nose, scratch their bottom) they instantly find themselves the butt of Internet jokes. I can't imagine why anyone would submit to this insane regimen. What European country is it that limits the campaign season to six weeks? Sounds to me like a good idea.
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I just get the sense that Obamamania is tapping into something big and will be very difficult to stop. I really think that most voters are tired of the status quo and even the "first woman" and "first black" president thing. Blacks got the right to vote before women so nothing says that Obama can't be next. Besides, Obama is genuinely likable and represents true change. If it is time to elect a black president, we can certainly do (and have done) worse than Obama. Hillary is utterly unlikable and represents what we are all tired of and want changed. This is NOT the woman we want to be the first.
I also still think that Rudy and Hillary are connected at the hip and Rudy's baggage will really hurt him against the youthful and charismatic Obama, even more than his age (he really does look like Hannibal Lechter). No Hillary, no Rudy. Yay!!! Don't ask us to hold our noses again and vote for the lesser of two evils. It may be Obama. |
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If Obama is able to turn on the youth vote in New Hampshire tomorrow, he will obviously try to continue that strategy in the other states. I know of no reason why he wouldn't be able to do this. It's hard for me to believe that Clinton could find the voters to counteract this strength.
If Obama can keep up the youth vote, Republicans should be terrified. While there are differences among the under-30 from region to region, they are not as signficant as the differences between the over-30 age group. (Under-30 Virginians are more similiar to under-30 Californians than over-30 Virginians are to over-30 Californians.)
Bottom line: Obama may be the only candidate capable of landslide. It is very easy to imagine that he can pick up Virginia, Ohio, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Arizona, Colordo, Florida and Nevada.
Depending on the GOP candidate and if the youth vote comes out in November, he could possibly pick up Tennessee, Georgia, Arkansas and North Carolina. May not be likely, but it is conceivable. |
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You say
"an opponent with an unusually deep reservoir of political skill and grassroots goodwill"
I'm not sure that describes Hillary. |
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He is an attractive hopeful guy. I am sorry in a way Mitt Romney has been so twisted by his handlers, because the pragmatic Massachusetts governor would have been a good alternative. But Mitt has managed to ruin himself in this process of being the perfect conservative.
It is not Mitt's change of heart on abortion. A few issues to change on are fine. The problem with Mitt is he changed on virtually every issue and all timed from being governor to being a presidential candidate. Mitt's problem is not the Evangelical voters, Mitt lost moderate fiscal conservatives like me, like Professor Bainbridge, heck he is even losing guys like Victor Davis Hanson.
Most people in this country are moderate on social issues. They want a strong economy, a good defense that keeps them safe, low taxes and less government in their lives. Strangely enough Fred Thompson says everything right as a conservative (I love what he says) but cannot get any traction. Maybe Pasadena Phil is right and no GOP canidate can win right now, but I still think McCain is the best bet given the alternatives. |
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with this sentence: "And in Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama faces an opponent with an unusually deep reservoir of political skill and grassroots goodwill."
IMO Hillary is not nearly as politically skilled as Patrick let on...she simply does not "connect" like her husband in the past and Obama in the present.
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Obamamania will last untile he has to have an actual position on anything.
Everyone is for change until they find out the change includes raising your taxes, limiting your freedoms, screwing with your life. Obama will get screwed by the details.
This will not happen in the Democrat primaries however. Democrat operatives run on emotions and not reality. |
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Re: Hillary Clinton
"Corruptio optimi quae est pessima," or, the corruption of the best is the worst.
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If Obama continues to garner support like has has in the first two states it won't matter who the R candidate is. Several Rs are already neck and neck with Hillary on the national level. People are tuning out in record numbers for Obama, not Hillary.
So I hope the Obama momentum dies because I hoinestly can't see those who are energized for the Barack-star coming out in near the same number for Hillary.
I hope so. |
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If Huckabee wins first or second in South Carolina, and then first or second in Florida, he'll be well on his way to locking up the Republican nomination.
Yes, Mitt spent millions, but Huckabee won the hearts of the people. |
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These declassified details notwithstanding, Romney elevated Black to run his counterterror advisory board. Despite deep, official dismay with Black’s pre-September 11 tenure, it’s been onward and upward for Black on Team Romney.
Few heads rolled after 9/11, despite the incompetence that allowed al-Qaeda to massacre 2,978 human beings. Cofer Black kept his head, and now uses it to advise a White House contender who promoted him in September, and praised him on CNN in late November.
This news should keep Republican primary voters wide awake at night.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDc1MDRmYmNlYTRkN2Y0ZT VhOTE0NDA0Y2RhNzIzOWQ= |
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hugh-
I guess it takes a bad call from a ref for Ohio Sate to win a national title.
They need to play a schedule before they hang with the big boys from the SEC. |
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If Obama can send the baby boom generation into political oblivion, he should get a medal.
The boomers need to be buried, 20 ft under.
Good riddance. |
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starring Hugh Hewitt and Mitt Romney. |
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...for the thoughtful analysis, Mr. Ruffini - one of the main reasons I still return to this blog.
Hillary hasn't had the time to sharpen a line of attack on Obama now that it's clear that she really does have to. Up until a few weeks ago, it must have looked to her like she might be able to saunter to coronation. In the last few days, she's been flailing, at times making dubious efforts to get to his left on a range of issues, implicitly reinforcing his unjustified claims to a trans-partisan politics. She has a hard time criticizing him where he's most vulnerable because she's been running for the candidacy of a party committed to ignorance and fantasy on Iraq and the war on terror. She can't now make the arguments that Republicans almost certainly will, or get much mileage out the contradictions between, say, what he now claims he said regarding the Petraeus Surge, and what he actually said. She's even tried to run to his left on abortion - when he's actually completely beholden to the extremist pro-choice wing (as a legislator he voted against a bill that would have required life support for babies that survived abortions).
Obama's feet are clay. That doesn't mean he can't or won't win, or that he doesn't in fact represent the greatest potential threat to American conservatism since FDR, but he can be beaten by a Republican once he's brought down to Earth. Hillary might still be able to do it, though she obviously has a narrower margin to work. |
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And that's what cost Romney his brand. He spent more time trying to prove he was a status-quo Republican instead of proving he was a competent innovator.
Now, he's trying to go back and prove that he's the closest thing to a change agent the GOP has right now. The sad thing for Romney is that, arguably, that was true 11 months ago. But now, after all the re-branding campaigns to prove that he was a conservative, a Reagan-Bush Republican, Romney's lost the credibility to argue that he can be a change agent.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22541240/ |
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Should Billary recover momentum it will be only after spending millions that she had counted on for the General Election. Rumors are that her cash has dropped from $50 million to $15 million at this point thanks to Obama and contributions are getting scarce.
Her recovery would also come at the expense of the loss of the air of invincibility and exposure of the fact that it is really Bill running in his wife's name.
Her recovery would also leave a trail of disheartened Hillary hating Obama supporters who could skip the General or vote GOP.
After SC, I may send her $10 as bait. I'll be ready for her then to be the Dem candidate.
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The results of the new Gallup poll are in...
Romney has fallen below even Fred Thompson...
Mike Huckabee 25% Rudy Giuliani 20% John McCain 19% Fred Thompson 12% Mitt Romney 9% Ron Paul 4%
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/01/gallup-clinton .html
Face it. The people of America can't stand this man! He reminds people of everything that is wrong with America from slick flip flopping politicians, to wealthy corporate elites (like Ken Lay), to cold government bureaucrats who care more about their own political survival than the people they're supposed to represent. |
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Is that it all seems to hinge on her going even more negative. IMO, going negative was in fact here biggest mistake. It makes Obama look more pristine by comparison. Unfortunately for her, now that she has let that genie out of the bottle she can hardly try to regain the high ground. Conversely, her experience strategy hasn't played out and she would be hard pressed to convince voters that she is the agent of change. I wouldn't count her out, but I can't imagine a strategy that would energize voters. |
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Heading into rarified Ron Paul polling success numbers!
+ + + |
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...are probably uppermost in her mind, but, following the observations regarding finances, you have to wonder if at some level she and those close to her don't hate the fact that, to bring Obama down, she'll have to risk beginning the Republicans' work for them for no gain. The negative for us is that she might toughen him up in the process.
If she's really as cynical as we all presume, she wouldn't let that stop her, of course, but she still won't attempt a real demolition unless she has some reasonable expectation that it could work, and still leave her in position to compete successfully in the general. Otherwise, both she and everyone around her, so desperate for new jobs and ins with the next Democrat Administration, would be sacrificing themselves merely to help their lifelong enemies (us).
I think that, if she's going to overturn Obama, on some level she has to reject, and cause her party to reject, his entire style-over-substance, can't-we-all-get-along theory of the race. That may entail going very negative, and would likely get personal if not necessarily nasty, but he's still a politician. It may look good now, but a refusal to respond on the real issues raised by his program, his views, and his record would begin to look very undemocratic, even apart from the intrinsic force of whatever attacks. Sooner or later he would respond in kind, and at that point he would begin to do her work for her. |
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I have heard B.Hussein Obama talk and have seen his web site and ask myself, Is he insane? How can he talk to real conservative independents and "so-called" republicans with his record? If you study the canidate and go to realclearpolitics you will see he is more liberal that hillary, and you want to tell me he is drawing republicians, No way. I knew he would run after his address at the last democratic convention because someone is prodding him and setting this whole canidacy up. I'm surprised that it took so long for the dems to figure out that a secular black man would have more of a shot than a jackson or sharpton. Osama is a socialist and a race baiter(wikipedia) with an agenda and hiding it well. Speaking of hillary, I'm glad to see a whore of satan can cry on cue like Billy clinton can. |
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Everyone knows what the democrats and liberals did to race relations so now as jackson said "the chickens are coming home to roost" and hitlery is powerless to stop it because of fear. You created the monster, so you will take it and like it! |
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That analysis was so excellent, I am scratching my head how it got Hugh's blog. Anyone that Mitt is conservative as far as I am concerned has the intelligence of a baboon. |
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She’s engaging in a rash of extremely self-destructive behavior, everybody can see it, but nobody can stop it. I’m talking about Hillary Clinton, not Britney Spears. Though both women desperately need an intervention—perhaps a full 72 hour observation-stay in the hospital. Because like Britney, Hillary is melting down:
1) There’s no crying in politics: Hillary gets weepy in a transparent attempt to soften her image with women voters when asked about how tough the campaign trail is. Video here.
2) Blacks should thank whites like her for their rights: Hillary compares Obama to Martin Luther King and herself to Lyndon Johnson in the struggle for civil rights, suggesting it’s politicians like Lyndon and her that really get things done. On what planet is this a flattering comparison? (I can’t wait to see Hillary’s appendectomy scar).
3) Hillary Rove-Clinton: Darth Cheney and Mini-Me Bush gave Hillary the same advice they gave Giuliani—if you can’t beat ‘em, scare ‘em. Yep, Hillary warns voters that al-Qaeda is watching so they better vote for her or prepare to die.
Ready to lead on day one, huh? Hillary’s getting that same glazed look that Britney had during her recent MTV Awards “performance”. Next up: getting photographed exiting a meet-and-greet with no panties. I hear Dr. Phil is making his way to Clinton campaign headquarters as we speak. The real question is: Will Hillary lose custody of Chelsea to Bill?
READ MORE
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/hillary-clinton-an d-britney-spears
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She and Bill appear to be as shocked as us Righties that Obama's spanking her this way. The Imperial Assumption of Entitlement is G O N E. Lady MacClinton, being the sensitive, gracious, lovable little fuzzball that she's renowned for, has got to be spitting bullets behind the scenes. Would be fun to be a kevlar wearing fly on that wall! Pride commeth befo'de'fall.
mmagic: Interesting. I keep thinking Obama's the better candidate for us to go up against. For a variety of reasons. Not least of which is his transparent--and shocking--desire to turn his country into Chirac's France. A Lazy Socialist shipwreck. I believe that Romney or Rudy can beat him handily. Not Huckleberry or, probably, McCain.
FAVORLESS: Tone the hatred down, Pal. That 3:05am comment is retch provoking.
Joe: No offense, but do you live here at HH? |
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"Obama simply can’t ride momentum from state-to-state-to-state for the next month"
Yes, he can. Geeze, Patrick, get a clue. Iowa and now New Hampshire have shown that this is not 1960 any more and a "ground game" and tons of cash buy you precisely nothing. Both Mitt and Hillary had the organization and the cash that in the old days were the keys to victory and Obama and Huckabee beat the stuffing out of them working on a shoestring.
Obama is a religious crusade now. He's the answer to the Democratic voters' prayers of "anyone but Hillary!" It doesn't matter what he says or what his positions are. He's magical right now. He'll ride that momentum all the way.
It's mystifying to see people like you totally miss what's happening here. Mitt and Hillary are going down in flames despite playing the perfect 1960 campaign game. That's because it's 2008 now.
Get with the times, dude. |
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Maybe so. But, among the adults here who've watched the Clintons a long, exhausting time, there's understandable superstion about eggs in the basket so early. Things change in this Huge Historical Time very swiftly. Events can conspire on the world stage that can expose & emphasize Obama's blank resume & empty suit. Just ask Baby Kim, half a world away.
Your confidence in The Huckster is way overplayed, I suspect. The man's a slick grifter and flim flammer and could be buried by Bazama or Lady MacClinton. |
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I am deeply troubled by the tears from senator clinton. I am also deeply troubled by her anger in the debate, for some reason I can't forget those eyes, they were wholly frightening. |
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Unfortunatley Obama can ride the wave state to state, there's a whole of breathless blabbering after this new "golden boy", I do believe with much, much disgust that HE will be this countries next "leader", God help us all ! |
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I'm not invested in Huckabee in any way. I'm just pointing out that the dynamics are different here. Hillary has the establishment behind her, a ton of cash and a seasoned campaign team and she's getting slaughtered. Romney's not much better. There's a new force at play here and the analysis in this blog post doesn't yet recognize it.
To be honest, I don't quite understand it myself. Who knows, maybe there's nothing new here at all. It just looks very different from the conventional wisdom scenarios that folks like Patrick and Hugh blogged about all last summer.
Remember the "two man race" claim? |
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senator clinton and mitt romney are running good old fashioned "machine politics" campaigns..they have oodles of money and, in the end, only the wealthy become president..so they will sit back and wait for their coronations fully knowing it is their wealth that will seal the deal. |
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God there is a real movement to make sure the Hillary does not have a chance to get the nomination. The media (supposed to be informed) seems to be leading the charge. Okay so we had IOWA guess what out of thousands of primary delegates Obama only leads by 2!!! Futhermore even if Obama wins NH his lead is assured to fall into the red on supertuesday. New York vs Illinois, Iowa, NH; Hillary will take the lead just with that state. From that point Hillary leads considerably in every major state!
But the media is going to continue to say that this race is in Obamas control. Furthermore the will continue to give him a free pass on his weak record. He only has passed 1 bill in his short senate career! Hillary is the agent of change!!! She has worked since age 13 to bring about change in America
Wikipedia their records and compare them, THEN VOTE!!
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Edward, you are quoting right out of the play book...something is afoot here...NYS is not a fait au compli by any means...and the democratic primary is not the general election....remember Rudy comes from NY also, Born and bred and educated....it may come down to the interloper versus the favorite son and NYers will vote for the favorite son...hands down.. |
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Just heard a report that there is only a difference of 1000 votes. |
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Scheduled Payments Romney for... Romney for President $250.00 01/15
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Republican Scorecard
Romney30 Huckabee21 McCain10 Thompson6 Paul2 Giuliani1 Hunter1 |
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"And accross the land, the progressives sang their clarion call- CHANGE! CHANGE! CHANGE!.." And so it was. Rising phoenix like from their cesspool Hill and Bill slither forth to regale the lemming like masses with their majesty and wisdom. And following in their wake are their loyal representitives gracing our t.v. screens wherever one looks,hacks and toadies all: Paul Begala, Lanny Davis,Ann Lewis,Susan Estritch,Serpent Head...I expect Sid Tht Squid to emerge from under his rock soon as well. And once again it's Camelot, and all is right with the world. Ah, Change! It's a beautifull thing, isn't it? God help us, for we are no longer capable of helping ourselves. |
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...a Dem Pres. and Dem. Congress for four years be exactly the chemotherapy this country needs to ultimately cure itself of its festering socialist cancer? |
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IGoCommando writes: Wednesday, January, 09, 2008 11:47 AM Would... ...a Dem Pres. and Dem. Congress for four years be exactly the chemotherapy this country needs to ultimately cure itself of its festering socialist cancer?
no |
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