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Wednesday, August 13, 2008
"If You Go To Georgia, As I Have Several Times..."
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 5:48 AM
That's from John McCain's statement on Georgia yesterday, and in those few words is contained a large argument why voters should elect the Arizona senator and not Barack Obama.

The world in which we live cannot be captained by a rookie without any meaningful executive experience, an enormous ambition, a radical agenda, and a long record of hard-left freinds and mentors that we have to expect would dominate his administration from day one.  The irsk Obama represents is huge.

Here's the McCain speech from yesterday (HT: Powerline):

Georgia itself, my friends, has a long and remarkable history. It was a fourth-century convert to Christianity, one of the first nations on Earth to convert to Christianity -- if you go to Georgia, as I have several times, you'll see churches that go back to the fourth- and fifth-century -- and it's been a part of the grand sweep that comprises Western civilization. But because of their location, their history hasn't been easy. Through the centuries, they have seen invasions and attacks from Mongols, Russians, Turks and Persians. And through it all, they maintain their language, their cultural identity, and their national pride. And as you know, they were part of the Soviet Union and were able to achieve their independence when the Soviet Union disintegrated. And they're facing terrible trials today, but they'll get through this, too.

And, my friends, and I'll talk about this more in a minute -- but they're at a strategic crossroads. There's a pipeline, an oil pipeline, Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan, which brings oil from the Caspian to points west and traverses Georgia -- that's the very pipeline that the Russians tried to bomb. And I don't have to tell you about the price of oil and disruption of oil supplies.

In this country -- it's that little country, a country whose territorial integrity, independence and sovereignty NATO countries reaffirmed at their summit in April -- terrible violence has occurred. Now let me just remind you exactly what has taken place here.

On Friday, Russian tanks and troops moved through the Roki Tunnel, across an internationally-recognized border, and into the Georgian province of South Ossetia. Two years ago, I traveled to South Ossetia, my friends, and we went through this barricade, and as soon as we got into this place, which the Russians are maintaining hundreds and now thousands of troops, there's this huge billboard and it said, 'Vladimir Putin, Our President.' Have no doubt about Russian ambitions in this area.

The Russian government stated it was acting only to protect Ossetians, and yet, on Saturday, its bombing campaign encompassed the whole of Georgia. Hundreds of innocent civilians have been wounded and killed -- possibly thousands. Military bases, apartment buildings, and other infrastructure all came under Russian fire. And the Russian Black Sea Fleet began concentrating off of the Georgian coast.

Before the weekend ended, Russian troops drove the Georgians out of South Ossetia and stepped up their offensive in the region of Abkhazia -- Abkhazia is another area that the Russians have controlled in violation of Georgian territorial integrity. And Georgia asked for a ceasefire, and Russia responded by bombing the Tbilisi Airport.

Yesterday, Russian troops advanced on one city after another. Gori, Senaki, Poti, and other cities were attacked. In 2006, I visited Senaki and reviewed the Georgian troops who had served with honor beside American soldiers in Iraq -- 2,000 of them served beside American soldiers in Iraq, and we're proud of that.

President Medvedev stated that he has halted the offensive, but reports indicate that Russian military forces have continued attacks in some areas and the situation remains fluid and dangerous. Foreign Minister [Lavrov] announced that Russia seeks regime change in Georgia, and that it's democratically-elected president 'better go.'

In the face of this threat, the leaders of Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine and Latvia -- you know there's a common thread there amongst them, they all suffered under Soviet domination -- they've all announced that they'll travel to the region, and the French president is in Moscow in an attempt to help resolve the crisis. They understand that it's a responsibility of the leading nations of the world to ensure that history continues to record reform and make progress toward respecting the values and security of all free people.

This is the situation in Georgia as we meet here this morning. The impact of Russian actions goes beyond their threat to a democratic Georgia. Russia has used violence against Georgia to send a signal to any country that chooses to associate with the West and aspire to our shared political and economic values.

My friends, we learned at great cost the price of allowing aggression against free nations to go unchecked. With our allies, we must stand in united purpose to persuade the Russian government to withdraw its troops from Georgia. There must be an independent, international peacekeeping force in the separatist regions. And we should ensure that humanitarian aid can be airlifted to Georgia's capital, and stand ready to help our Georgian partners put their country back together. And we must make clear to Russia's leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability, and piece of that world.

My friends, today the killing goes on and aggression goes on. Yet, I know from speaking this morning to the President of Georgia, Misha Saakashvili, who I've known for many years, that he knows that the thoughts and the prayers and support of the American people are with that brave little nation as they struggle today for their freedom and independence. And he wanted me to say thank you to you, to give you his heartfelt thanks for the support of the American people for this tiny little democracy far away from the United States of America. And I told him that I know I speak for every American when I say to him, today, we are all Georgians.



View in ascending order View in descending order
jtb-in-texas writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 7:59 AM
Some of us realize
that it's not just about us...

The rest are likely Obama supporters. If they can "feel" like voting on the day...
Ryan01 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:03 AM
Screw McCain
"The world in which we live cannot be captained by a rookie without any meaningful executive experience, an enormous ambition, a radical agenda, and a long record of hard-left freinds and mentors that we have to expect would dominate his administration from day one."

And the above can be applied against McCain as well. Here is someone who is reckless as hell with his mouth and intentions and hasn't seen a war somewhere over the last 20 years he didn't want to drag the US into. As for friends, well, McCain's neocon friends like Bill Kristol are every bit as odious as those of Obama's and just as radical.
Spencer Roads writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:42 AM
Strong Military
The attack on Georgia by Russia is the type of thing Obama would love to see us powerless on. He wants to gut our military so that we would have no credible response to, in this case, Russia. If you think Putin's going to stop at Georgia, think again.

We can choose to be strong and provide a credible balance against Russia's imperial aspirations, or we can choose to sit back and watch as Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine get crushed under Putin's heel.

The choice between Obama and McCain is stark, not only on experience but on policy intentions: McCain is for a strong miliary, Obama is for a weak military.
Rich from Ventura Co writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:55 AM
...and never scrape against a fact.
Foghat writes: "Ryan01, please tell me which wars McCain has tried to drag us into over the last twenty years! Facts please."

Well said Foghat. It can be said of Ryan, Kimchee, et.al. as was said about William Jennings Bryan "One could drive a schooner through any part of his argument and never scrape against a fact."

They run on emotion not clear logic and not stubborn fact.

Royinoslo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:55 AM
And he recognizes KGB, too
You're right in a sense, HH, it goes to show that Sen. McCain is a strong candidate... to be the next U.S. ambassador to Georgia. Now that would be some reaching across the aisle!
Royinoslo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:58 AM
Think Beach Boys
Foghat:

Starting with the I's, there's Iran and Iraq.
hvs writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:59 AM
Wake up call....
The Russian blitzkrieg that split Georgia in half is a jarring reminder that John McCain is the only candidate who carries any weight with Putin and his KGB thugs. The political picture that voters have seen this week of a resolute, angry McCain and a Hawaii vacation surfing Obama is so stark that one can almost smell the media embarrassment for their chosen One.

Is there any doubt which of these candidates Putin would rather deal with for the next several years?
Rich from Ventura Co writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:05 AM
McCain. the Warrior
McCain: "I know from speaking this morning to the President of Georgia, Misha Saakashvili, who I've known for many years, that he knows that the thoughts and the prayers and support of the American people are with that brave little nation as they struggle today for their freedom and independence."

How war like!

McCain has also said "I have looked Putin in the eye and see a K and a g and a B.

When will the lefties stop feeding the bears...
Rich from Ventura Co writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:08 AM
What would Obama do?
King Liberal: "It is all Bush's fault."

We know you worship at the alter of Obama, so let me ask you the classic question: "What would Obama do?"

kchand writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:12 AM
But, wait....
this just in ...... BO spent last night in a Holiday Inn.
hvs writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:13 AM
Yes, what would Obama do?
And Sarkozy should get involved. Finally a European that can get results (maybe) as opposed to the US having to shoulder the responsibility.
Ryan01 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:14 AM
Foghat
McCain wanted not only to intervene in all of the messes in the Balkans, but the Middle East as well. That goes back to the '90s. Bombing Iran is one he'd love to start to add to this impressive list of foreign meddling.
Ryan01 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:20 AM
Rich from Ventura Co
"They run on emotion not clear logic and not stubborn fact."

And you run on a political version of Alzheimer's disease if you don't remember any of this. I remember the lunatic bellowing for "troops on the ground" in Kosovo.
Spencer Roads writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:24 AM
Who's running for President?
King Liberal, even if we accept your inane argument that "it's all Bush's fault", you simply must come to terms with the fact that this is 2008, not 2004, as hard as that may be for you. Bush is not running for president.

We have Obama, who wants to decimate our military by starving it of funds (to use the money, presumably, on welfare giveaways), and McCain, who, while not getting universal agremeent on domestic matters, can at least be relied upon to understand that the only way we can have a peaceful world is if America is strong, both industrially and militarily.

It would be truly pathetic,and certainly sickening, watching the Light(weight) Worker lamely demanding that the UN restrain Russia, despite the fact that Russia can veto any Security Council resolution. Not that it would make any difference anyway -- the UN always has been, and always will be, a dismal failure.

Obama thinks he can bring sweetness and light into the world by trying to make everyone love a weak America. Most sensible people see that position for the childish wishful thinking that it is.
BigKahunaBurger writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:25 AM
What Would Obama Do, exactly?
We don't know, but how DARE we even ASK...

He might deign to tell us when he gets back from vacationn, but rest assured ignorant peasants, it will be unassailably brilliant...

riiiiight...
Richard writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:26 AM
Rich

King Lib will have no good answer to your question because O'Bomba wouldn't do anything. Platitudes and One-World Kumbayah are all he's got. King Lib's distaste for America blinds him to the fact that Barry's allegiance isn't to America.. it's elsewhere.. anywhere but America. Barry knows, and I'm sure King Lib would concur that America is the root of all evil in the world and must be knocked down a peg or two.

Multiculturalism and white-guilt have spawned a new-generation of hard-core, self-loathing America haters. King Lib is a prime example of that sad phenomenon.
Rush Conservative for Huck/2012 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:35 AM
We need this kind of toughness!
That was reagenesque Mr. McCain. That, my friends, is speaking softly and readying the stick.

We need a man like McCain who will call evil by its name, and work to defeat it.

Obama can't recognize evil much less come up with a plan to defeat it. (SHHH, he doesn't really want evil defeated)
Joe, Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Right writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:48 AM
But have you lived in Indonesia as a
child, attended an Islamic secondary school for a while, have the middle name Hussein, and think the sound of the muezzin at sunset is the most beautiful sound in the world? And oh by the way have your iPod loaded with Javanese flute music?

George Clooney thinks Barack is hot.
Rich from Ventura Co writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:50 AM
Facts please?
Ryan01 writes: "McCain wanted not only to intervene in all of the messes in the Balkans, but the Middle East as well. "

How about some of those stubborn facts rather than just your word?
Rich from Ventura Co writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:58 AM
Lefties please stop feeding the bear
King Lib said: "No wonder Sarkozy had to handle this mess..."

Yup, that worked, didn't it:

"President Medvedev stated that he has halted the offensive, but reports indicate that Russian military forces have continued attacks in some areas and the situation remains fluid and dangerous."

NPR reports this morning that Russian tanks are seen still moving south. Georgia's boats in their Black Sea ports have been bombed today and there are reports that irregular militia backed by Russian forces are pillaging.

Hey lefties: top blaming everyone but Putin and Mededev. Stop feeding the bear.

Joe, Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Right writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:08 AM
My heart's on fire, Obama!
Eyes that look like heaven, lips like sherry wine
That candidate can sure enough make my little light shine
I get a funny feelin' up and down my spine
'Cause I know that my Barack's mine

So I'm singin'
Obama. Obama
My heart's on fire Obama.
Giddy Up Obama Omm Barack Mauman
Giddy Up Obama Omm Barack Mauman
Heigh-ho Obama, away

Tonight I'm gonna meet him at the Democratic rally
And I'm gonna give him all the love I can
Obama's gonna jump and holler 'cause I saved up my last two dollars
And I am going to vote my savior in

Now I'm a singin'
Obama Obama
My heart's on fire Obama
Giddy Up Obama Omm Barack Mauman
Giddy Up Obama Omm Barack Mauman
Heigh-ho Obama, away
My Pet Goat writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:10 AM
Experience
McCain's great experience has gotten us into this mess.

President Obama!
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:26 AM
Georgia-Russia is a border issue
McCain doesn't believe borders can be defended. Russians are God's children too and they have families to take care of. Are you talking about deporting the thousands and thousands of Russians who repopulated Abkhazia after forcing those xenophobic Georgian bigots out? Think of all the families you would be breaking up! Just because the La Raza Russo says they want to retake what they claim is their rightful territory doesn't mean they mean it. If only Georgia had a maverick who had the courage to "reach across the aisle" and show a little kindness and understanding to God's children, all would be fine. Hey! McCain! He's a maverick! Let's ship him to Georgia!
ahn writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:28 AM
If McCain has talked to Saakashvili
and still hasn't learned how to pronounce his name
(he called him Shashkavili several times) What does that say about his learning speed? McCain is just like Bush--incompetent. No wonder he graduated 5th from the bottom at the Naval Academy and his career was most distinguished by crashing and being taken prisoner. Not ready to lead. Ever.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:28 AM
Guess who supports Obama. LOL
http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/975/1/147/
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:36 AM
ahn
I'm no McCain lover, but do you have any idea what it even takes to get into the Naval Academy?

I bet not. Many jets & bombers wer shot down in Nam. McCain was one of many.

And the crashing thing.... again you know zip. The planes he lost were because of engine failure not his flying, but thanks for playing.
Craig writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:40 AM
Obama already won
I heard on the radio that Obama's surrogates (Patsies) Tim Kaine and Bill Richardson said that Obama's desire to talk is the reason the Russian's stopped their offensive.

I think Obama better get back from Hawaii soon. His surrogates are destroying his chances at victory.
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:47 AM
Even Limbaugh had a problem yesterday
with a unanimity of callers who kept asserting that Georgia provoked this confrontation.

Hugh's post here that mighty John McCain is more fit to lead is laughable as to the assumption it makes regarding the correctness of the foreign policy initiative which has brought us to this point.

Furthermore, trying to make this a Christianity crusade by invoking the "ancient church" is exactly the rhetorical flavor which the Townhall.com crowd eats up with a spoon.

Way to clarify things. Bring religious insanity into it. Atheistic Russia wants to stamp out the Lord in the Georgian Republic.
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:49 AM
GAWD, These Midgets Are Funny & Inter-
changeable. Whether Ryan, the PaleoPaulbot, or his kossite allies like KingLib, it all comes out the same. America must turn from the world and stick its head in the sand. America needs weakness. IF America minds its own 'bidness, then, by golly, EVIL will mind its own!

They learn nothing from 20th Century History. Nuthin'. Hell, Patty Buchanan's even got a new book out saying that Hitler fellow wasn't such a Bad Chap, if we'd minded our own darn business. Yep, within living memory of Auschwitz, Kolyma, two world wars and 40-50 million dead in China, perfecting PROgressivism, and these toads are still trying to sell Isolationist Swill.
RustyG writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:03 AM
Sadly ironic King Liberal
What is almost comical if it weren't so sad. I've read all your posts on this thread. Even IF all your babble were true...McCain is still a better candidate than the clown you libs are putting up. LOL
Bob Munck writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:11 AM
Dustoff-507 10:36 AM
"do you have any idea what it even takes to get into the Naval Academy?"

In 1954? Having a father who was a four-star admiral was more than sufficient. And having a grandfather who held the same rank was only icing on the cake. Why do you think he ranked 894th in his class?
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:21 AM
No Fly zone
I asked a question to the folks here on whether a no fly zone should have been established 24 hours after this conflict started.

General McCafretry (sp) on fox news just recommended f-22's to create a "no fly zone" and drop NATO forces in as peace keepers to prevent a potential massacre.

The president just spoke, and is trying to allow humanitarian drops in by plane and sea. I assume this is also to get people on the ground to get real intelligence as both sides are lying about what is going on.

The Russians broke their truce, and a blockade appears in the making around the capital.

It appears, we are ratcheting up involvement. The president said a plane with humanitarian supplies is "on it's way".

McCain was right..Again...you can't appease a hungry bear.
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:21 AM
This morning's news
This stopped being about Russians trying to regain their or the West's respect as some posting on this site have theorized. If this was about Russians trying to protect their ethnic brethern in South Ossetia - that was accomplished days ago. They've been itching for this fight for awhile and Saakashvili was stupid enough to give them a reason to swing. And when it comes to a fistfight, no one has any need nor respect for the French. Sarkozy gave Moscow the legitimacy they were seeking.

The Romans were experts in subjugating a conquered population with their whipping posts and crucifixes. Here we have Russia using tanks and air raids to accommplish the same with the brutalization of the Georgia Republic. While the Georgian leadership have been exposed as strategic morons, the Russians are exposed for who and what they are to the world and the former Soviet satelites at the expense of Georgian lives. The other former Soviet satelites must now either band together or fall together as the bear ravages on.

This is no longer a defensive act. It's a bunch of thugs gang-stomping the drunken loudmouth in the alley behind the bar. No matter how you cut it and claim the drunk asked for it, it's still assault which is still a crime last time I checked.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:24 AM
MCCAIN IN GEORGIA
LOL, Obama hasn't even been to Georgia, USA. Taste it King Lib and other lefty knotheads. McCain 'wins' this one. Obama looks like the weak, efete, arugula eating, ivory tower poseur that he is, on this issue. Are there enough teenyboppers and card carrying communists to win the election for Obama? We will see. But don't worry, McCain is going to do something real stupid soon, like maybe pick Lieberman for his VP, to give Obama a boost. Who will lose the election first? It's a real horserace this year. lol
Joe writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:25 AM
From Obama's iPod
Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will give up their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Those at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

Joe writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:26 AM
Obama's iPod
Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will give up their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Those at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:27 AM
Bob Munck
Care to prove it!

Or like so many others, your just running your mouth with ZERO proof.

The same was said for Bush jr. But could you prove it. NOPE!

Put up or shut up Bob.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:29 AM
Col Bat Guano
Pretty funny isn't it Col. Russia protecting it's people. I guess the libs to this site forget about Stalin. Yeah he sure cared about HIS people.

What a joke.
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:36 AM
Dusty
Putin, et.al. could give a hoot about his "people," but shore will take care of his "peeps" to use thug-ese. That is, as long as the peeps have value to him.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:44 AM
KINGLIB
LOL. You sure get your panties in a wad over small stuff KL. Better take your BP meds before you blow a gasket.
Patriotic Liberal writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:54 AM
McCain is a joke
He'll never get elected because America has grown up. We want a future for our children, not a hard-on because we are bored.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:57 AM
King Liberal
Yes how true. KL and all his lib/dem buddies just love the way people of Russia have so many rights that the gov will fight for.

Stalin must be smiling right now.
Salty Alaskan writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:11 PM
Colonel bat quano
Couldn't agree more with your 11:21 first paragraph - it squares completely with my understanding.

Some are positing Russia will continue this heavy handedness with other breakaway countries, such as Ukraine. I don't see that happening. They are relatively "safe" from significant western resistance in Georgia due to geopolitical isolation. The further West they move, the easier it gets for a military response, and they butt up against NATO members.

That, combined with the questionable quality of their military would seem to preclude them doing anything that would expose any vulnerability. That would be counter to the bargaining power they've gained by this little foray.

Not sure what our response will be, but it will ratchet up the longer they prolong their military efforts, so I expect them to wind this down quickly in the near term.
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:13 PM
Speaking of Stalin...Do You Suppose That
the Rooskie Army and Air Forces were sternly ordered NOT to hit the Stalin Museum in his birthplace of Gori? I'd bet on it. The Oligarchs would be all smiles about Koba-the-Dread's butchering of hundreds of thousands of his Georgian Kin.
_________________________________________________


Dusty & ColBat: Did ya like that floater of Blovie Boy's that O'Bammy will win cuz America has 'grown up'?

BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Right.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:22 PM
Russia and the news.
Anyone notice that the bad guys have not stopped their land grab. So Cicero where are you?
I thought you said the Russians were only protecting their people and not take land.... LOL.

Neo, your right buddy.
Virginia Patriot writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:25 PM
America Grown Up?
Wouldn't we have different candidates in both parties if that were true?
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:26 PM
Salty Alaskan
You are probably right about the Ukraine and other former Soviets, but Vlad sure got their attention didn't he? And Euro's know he has them by the short hairs with that oil and gas supply so Vlad knew they would beat their chests and pontificate but nothing more about him trashing Georgia. Good reason to get our own energy supply in gear wouldn't you say?

Looking at Georgia on the map, you don't even have to be a greenhorn "Risk" player to know it was strategically vulnerable to the bear's appetite. All the more reason Saakashvilli shoulda stayed away from the vodka knowing thugs were just down a few stools at the Stagger Inn.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:27 PM
Actually, KL
McCain will be elected because America has SOBERED up. I dislike him and what he stands for (himself, mostly) but I think he may even win in a landslide. Obama is an OTJ trainee.

However, I still wish my friends on the Left - the Repubs and Dem/libs - would pay closer attention to the border problem and PC Islamofascists taking over here at home. We need to go back to being proud Americans. I don't give a shiite if others think we're obnoxious, malo or rude. Keep your third world thinking and lifestyles in your own countries.
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:34 PM
Y'a Libs Want to Yell...
....Bush is dumb; MacCain is dumb;....

and Obama? ...Summa c-m laude stupid. He really is the scariest of the bunch in a dangerous world.

As Churchill (Winston not Ward) said: Weakness is provocative.

Obama's answer to our weakness in this situation is more weakness? Yeah, let's just go for total impotence. Become Switzerland. They're a good counter-weight to the enemies of freedom.
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:38 PM
ScarletP~~ Not giving a care about
what others in the international community think of us sounds a little like the isolationism which many on the right warn us about.

A bull-in-a-china-shop sort of isolationism.

Self-satisfied in our fortress of blind solitude.

Should our best friends commence an intervention when they see we have a self-destructive problem?

Or should they keep their concern to themselves and allow us to descend on our merry way?
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:44 PM
K.G....And, Speakin' of Briggsy !
Great timing, K.G.

Amiable Lefty Dunce, Briggs...Luv ya, Kiddo. But, please, promise me you won't wander near traffic.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:45 PM
Someone should tell Obama
His so called ceasr-fire that he thinks the Russians care about is NOT happening.

And the killing goes on.

Let'see, when has Russia ever been frendly to other countries.

1930. Nope
1940. Nope
1950. Nope
1960. Nope
1970's and on..... Nope, nope & nope.

Let's the lib's/dem's think Russia is such a great country. LOL
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:49 PM
Winnie and Rummy...BOTH Said, "Weakness
is provocative,"...and BOTH were 100% correct. Truth Tellers excoriated by the Blind & Brain Dead of their respective days.

O'Bammy believes that American Weakness--something he & his are totally invested in--is very Euro-Appealing. Georgie Clowney is texting him about it right now.

This is well known.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:49 PM
Not isolationist at all, Briggsy
Isolationism is ignoring other countries. I want to pay close attention to other countries and go put our foot up someone's keester when we need to. It is suicidal not to.

I want those who come here to adapt to our ways and not the other way around. If we don't watch out, our kids will be subjugated just like the spineless Euros are. This PC overkill will bring us down, mang.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:49 PM
BRIGGSY
RE your post to Scarlet P: your argument takes the usual leftist stand that to not try and win a popularity contest with foreigners necessarily means we would be acting self destructively. There is much room inbetween the two extremes of this debate. Scarlet P was not, IMO, argueing for total disregard of all foreign governments and foreigners. I thought his point was that we give outside opinion too much weight and should give it much less consideration and consider American interests first and foremost. This is a psychologically healthy approach to take for any society that wishes to survive. Are you a lefty, or did you not understand Scarlet P's point?
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:51 PM
Dustoff, exactly
The Russians have NEVER been our friends. Anyone who thinks they will be is naive and ignorant of history.

The French have been undermining us at least since the 50's when they got kicked out of Nam.
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:52 PM
Salty Alaskan
"Some are positing Russia will continue this heavy handedness with other breakaway countries, such as Ukraine. I don't see that happening."

It is already happening. Could you explain why you don't think a congenital bully will change its stripes? They have shot themselves in the foot already but they don't care. We better lean on them hard RIGHT NOW before they do what bullies always do when confronted with appeasement instead of firmness. Let's kick them out of the G-8 now and introduce motions to discuss adding Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. It would also help for the EU to start discussions about adding Georgia to the EU too. Ukraine has a lot of corruption to clean first but Georgia being discussed would provide a strong incentive for them to do so. You cannot overestimate how much these former Soviet states detest the Russians. That is our primary strength in this confrontation. We are pushing downhill for a change.
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:52 PM
Russian Decline
Here is a UK perspective on this issue:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article4517727.ece

"The mini-war in Georgia may have surprised some Europeans, but it was expected weeks ago by British Intelligence. Thanks to the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, the ex-KGB officer who was poisoned in London by suspected Russian agents nearly two years ago, Britain has completely reassessed its relationship with Moscow. MI5, which reports that Russian agents in Britain are now back at Cold War levels, regards Russia as the third most serious threat to British security after terrorism and nuclear proliferation."

It's time for NATO peace keepers in Tbilisi.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:54 PM
neo
Georgie Clowney

O-yeah, he a man of the world. LOL
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:58 PM
Brigs
what others in the international community think of us sounds a little like the isolationism which many on the right warn us about.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You may wish to think back say to WWI & WWII & Korea. They sure wanted us then.

Back to school fool.
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 12:59 PM
Briggsy: Best Friends? Best Friends?
What best friends? With best friends like we have in the EU, who needs enemies?

While we were concerned about Saddam, our "best friends" were making deals with him, sucking money for themselves...all the while saying, Don't go; Don't go.

And you think it was concern for US? Or for world peace and freedom?

Our "friends" are a bunch of lazy cowards who will not step up and be real friends of freedom. Who will defend democracy in the world?

Basically the US--and then only half of us. The other ninnies think if we just disarm and mind our own business the "lamb and the lion will just lie down together w/o any ire."

Nope. Nobody beats swords into plowhooks until the real Second Coming occurs, not the phony "coming" of the phony Obamassiah who is going to talk, from a golf course yet, everyone into just getting along.

As Rush says: This is a world controlled by the aggressive use of force. Man-up, boyz and grow a set! You can't sit around playing with your iPod while the world burns.

If your friends told you to go jump off a cliff, would you do it?
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:05 PM
Courtliness, like Franklin.
Refined elegance and dignity of manners.
(Hotheads call this appeasement.)

Belligerence, like McCain.
Warlike, aggressive, hostile.
(Who needs more of THIS attitude? USA Americans?)
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:06 PM
P-Phil
Actually I think Salty makes an excellent point. Putin is trashing Georgia because he can and no one can do much to stop him given Georgia's poor strategic position. The mark of a true thug is to beat the snot out of a weaker opponent whose friends live on another street far away from the beating scene.

Putin's a thug. He's mugging a little kid he knew he could easily pulverize. The western former Soviets wouldn't be as easy a fight.
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:12 PM
What We Need in a POTUS..
..is the anti-Obama. Someone who can unite the Two Americas: Get the ninny-nuts to step and be real Americans.

Someone who can inspire the righteous nations of the world to unite, get a spine and be willing to spill their blood and spend their treasure to protect freedom.

Islamic militarism is on the march. Sharia law is coming down Main St. Now the Russian Bear has come out of hybernation. Iran is going nuclear. One fire is put out; another emerges.

The actual Obama is in favor of laying down our arms (should we have any), play dead and make nice. What we need is the anti-Obama, a world leader who can unite the citizens of the world for the fight of our lives.
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:15 PM
Briggsy: Courtliness?
Refined elegance, while just getting the job done? Shoulda voted for Mitt Romney. He would have walked large on the international stage in a way that might have appealed to Europeans.

But Obama? A laughing stalk. Nobody would take him seriously. He's a kid-bloviator with no leverage.
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:15 PM
Col Bat Guano
I don't disagree with anything you said. I believe that the only way to deal with a thug is to keep him pinned in place by stepping on his toes and keeping off balance by leaning into him. When thugs are preoccupied with trying to stand up, they don't have time to beat others up. I believe that Russia just bit off more than they can chew. Capital is now flying out of Russia and their oil reserves are depleting fast. If Russia gets bogged down in Georgia and later Ukraine, this will create a big opportunity for China to make a move in the east. Russia is 99% aggression and 1% power. Since the collapse of the Soviet system, they have been seizing whatever capital that did not flee and will soon be seizing foreign capital (Soros, Mobius) that was foolish enough to invest in such a crappy neighborhood. We can drain their economy dry. A slow painful death by attrition. No need to engage in a war.
Dread writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:22 PM
Another day....
[Stalin]

Who was half-Georgian, not Russian.

[Basically the US--and then only half of us. The other ninnies think if we just disarm and mind our own business the "lamb and the lion will just lie down together w/o any ire."]

No, the other half think that we should define our legitimate security needs in Amercia-centric terms and mind our own business until those are threatened, and then push back, if necessary.

To put our nation at the whims of small men who opt to go about poking bears with sticks puts us in a considerable place of weakness and subservience to potential 'allies' who might just want to garner on American military might to settle old ethnic scores.

I know history begins and ends for neocons in 1938, but if you go back a couple of chapters in your history book, you'll see how well making grand mutual defense alliances worked out of Europe in the early 20th century.
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:23 PM
Robert
For another perspective, as in we saw it coming too, check my blog. I posted a detailed report released yesterday by Stratfor. I don't know whether I agree with it but I am looking at all reports. I have a friend who is a Marine Colonel who was one of the 95 officers commanding the military exercises there last month and am relying on his perspective for insights. There is much on the diplomacy end that we don't yet know.

One observation I would like to make though relates to Wall Street's take on this. I listened to an analyst from Cato Institute this morning on Bloomberg who was very ho-hum about this on the assumption that no one will harm the crude oil pipeline cutting through Georgia. He was perfectly fine with the Russians seizing the pipeline, no problem. Then why are we still boycotting Cuba? I hope these aren't the guys guiding our foreign policy. I'm afraid they are.
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:24 PM
Colonel Bat, there are those who have
posted here who caution against feeding the bear.

And there are those who have posted here who caution against poking the bear with a stick.

The latter point of view counsels a positive restraint which the USA has violated.

The former point of view attempts to re-cast a negative restraint as a call to action.

Who is lining up to take the bait?

Propaganda-addicted hawks and religionists.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:24 PM
BRIGGSY ON COURTLINESS
Nice try Briggsy, but no sale. Your interpretaion of courtliness and belligerence and projecting same onto the principals of this debate is unconvincing. Wishin' and hopin' and prayin' and dreamin' the bully down the block ain't gonna kick your (the figurative 'you') *ss all over the neighborhood doesn't stop the bully-and yo mama/daddy won't be around to save you either. The USA is the daddy that has to stop the tyrants and try to keep the world from going up in flames. Unfortunate, but true. And you can thank your lucky stars we are and have been doing it. Look at how the Europeans, et al managed things before we became the big kid on the block. So stop whining and get with the program.
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:30 PM
Stalin was born in Gori
We are 4% of the world population producing 25% of the world's economy. We cannot "leave others alone". They won't allow us that luxury. There is a dangerous game being played by our blatant enemies and gray area opportunists. We are involved whether or not we choose to play. We can take the game to our enemies or give them the advantage of initiative by waiting for them to take it to us. It is a rule of survival as old as dust.
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:31 PM
Pasadena Phil
Agreed. I've argued similarly that stepping on Venezuela's toes with our own energy supply would get Hugo Chavez hung from an oil derrick without us having to fire a shot. Same goes for Putin. Take away his value and the Russians will "disappear" him.

The only problem is other people will have to die for this real life Risk game to play out. A well positioned sniper might make a difference but we're too civilized for that.
Col Bat Guano writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:33 PM
Briggsy
Eh?
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:34 PM
PL
He'll never get elected because America has grown up. We want a future for our children, not a hard-on because we are bored
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ahhhh, wrong person fool. Call Bill Clinton or slikpony for that answer. LOL


Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:35 PM
K.G., "best friends" is a relative term.

You can lose your best friends by failing to recognize your own flaws and continuing to defiantly exhibit those flaws with the insistence that they are virtuous or excusable.
paddy o'furniture writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:39 PM
Courtliness...?
Are we going to be dancing a Virginia Reel?

Maybe you can get Joe to go with you.....he sounds like he could use a looooong vacation....
Ex Pat(-rick) in Geneva writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:40 PM
Why you'll loose....
The missing component in the Right's attack on Obama is that they continue to see him as only another pie-in-the-sky liberal. He has proven that he has a razor-sharp, killer instinct for down-and-dirty partisan politics.

That is why the GOP will probably loose.
athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:51 PM
PasPhil - you're right
America IS involved, whether the lefties want it so or not ... we have much in stake in Georgia, a fellow ally in Afghanistan, and a former Russian satellite whom we sponsored for admission to NATO just a couple months ago. If we let them get eaten by the Russian bear, our word will be mud the world over.

We also have strong reason to oppose Russia's aggression so as to prevent another Munich, which, as we all know, only led to one of the two bloodiest wars in history.

I believe GWB is making the right moves .. he has warned Russia that our military is delivering "humanitarian supplies", which may also include a few stray handheld anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles ... the Russians remember very well what happened to their supposedly far superior army in Afghanistan when confronted with American lightweight anti-armor and anti-aircraft weapons in the hands of a weaker army. The terrain in both Georgia and Afghanistan lend themselves to such tactics.

GWB has also explicitly put Russia's further participation in free world bodies such as the G-7, and upcoming joint NATO exercises in Europe, on the table.

And people should not forget that America, with an economy more than ten times the size of Russia's, is in a position to do far more damage to Russia than vice versa, without ever threatening boots on the ground or ICBM's in the air.

Russia may seem to have won this round, according to many deep thinkers, but I think that Russia screwed up big time.

And PasPhil, I know you won't like this, but Putin just got John McCain elected President of the United States come November.

athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:57 PM
Paddy, Dustoff, & other friends
I suggest that we adults here on this web page not engage with the lefty seminar posters - I don't need to name them, as you well know. Responding to them only gives them the satisfaction of diverting our attention from matters that, well, matter.

Don't waste your energies or your keystrokes on knuckleheads. No matter what you say or think, they're still going to be knuckleheads at the end of the day.


Salty Alaskan writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 1:57 PM
Pasadena Phil re: 12:52
I was speaking specifically to using military force. They've gained leverage with their neighbors with this action at almost zero cost. They risk losing it if they show weakness, which would happen in a meaningful West-Russo military dust up.

Likewise, if the West overreacts in response, we risk losing the leverage of the threat of future punishments, and could even provoke an extension of Russian aggression or even an escalation of some sort.

Your G8 suggestion is more effective as a threat than a reality. At the end of the day we want to work with the Russians rather than fight them, regardless how we may feel about them. There are limits to that of course.
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:07 PM
athingortwo, why do you want to
keep covering your ears and singing La La La Na Na Na?

Has your cardiologist recommended filtering out opposing opinions?
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:13 PM
athingortwo
For those who argue that we are too militarily depleted and economic weak to respond at this time, we entered WWII in during an economic depression when we were essentially demilitarized. When the threats present themselves, we need to act no matter what. This only gets expensive if we act without resolve and credibility. Sending relief supplies with a warning to the Russians to not blockage the cities is direct challenge. Will the Russians shoot down our planes? Confiscate the supplies? Blockade the cities and starve the citizens until the government steps down? We have much at stake here and the solution is not expensive.
athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:19 PM
Salty - I respectfully disagree
The USA does not need Russia.

The only geopolitical value that Russia had was it's supposed influence over Iran on the nukes issue .. but of course, the Russian influence has proved to be worth pretty close to zero in that affair, if not actually a negative influence on our attempts to prevent Iran from getting nukes.

So now that GWB has finally recognized that Russia will not help us with Iran, we have little to lose by confronting Russia and letting them know in uncertain terms that we are not going to let them overrun the former Soviet "Republics" - including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc., one by one, starting with Georgia.

A line in the sand has already been drawn by GWB. The very actions of Russia this week have also just put John McCain in the White House, as this little crisis just reminded voters that the world is still far too dangerous to put up with the Audacious Dope in the Oval Office. Obama just failed the "international test" this week (as Jon Effing Cary put it four years ago) ... miserably so, in fact.

We are not going to get into a shooting war with Russia. But we're going to squeeze them by the you-know-whats until it hurts really really bad. And then they're going to be forced to give up what they thought they won this week. And to add insult to injury, John McCain will become Russia's worst nightmare come January 20.

Even the Euro-weanies are getting a wake up call about their neighbor to the east ... within a year we're going to see a massive effort in Europe to wean themselves from Russian oil and gas - primarily by building new nukes and converting to electric and hydrogen vehicles. Within ten years the Russian "oil and gas card" will be fully played out, and virtually useless as a geopolitical club.

As happened in the Cold War, the Russians have overplayed their hand and managed to scare the opposition into getting serious about opposing their game.

Bad move, Pootie!





Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:23 PM
Salty Alaskan,
"Your G8 suggestion is more effective as a threat than a reality."

I disagree. We need to make it a reality because they do not have an economy that justifies their membership. We don't care about their prestige. Let's knock them down a peg or two and force them to settle for THAT. They are do not have the clout to be demanding anything if we choose not to give it to them. Russia has nothing but weak friends and powerful enemies. That is what we need to force them to react to.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:27 PM
ATHINGORTWO
I understand and respect your point of view. I engage the lefties to expose any readers who don't know different to their flawed thinking, and because I get a kick out of it. I know quite a few individuals who are/have been trying to become more knowledgeable about history and politics in the US and if they or others like them read this site, I want them to see rebuttals to the arguments put forth by lefties. Believe me, I have seen the less knowledgeable be swayed by the lefty's BS.
Best wishes,
JimP
Cicero writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:27 PM
Briggsy
"Way to clarify things. Bring religious insanity into it. Atheistic Russia wants to stamp out the Lord in the Georgian Republic."

I know, I laughed at this too. It's apparently escpaped their notice that both Russia and Georgia are largely Orthodox in their religious orientation.

I don't know whether to continue to engage this mindless neocon jingoism and convenient sifting of fact or simply marvel at it from afar.
athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:30 PM
Right again, PasPhil
We are anything but "depleted" as so many proclaim, even many on the right.

As of today, the US have only about 10% of our available ground forces stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined - not to mention that our forces just whipped a*s in Iraq, and are keeping things well under control in Afghanistan.

And of course, all of our air forces and all of our naval forces - the world's largest and most capable, by far - are ready to be deployed almost instantaneously (certainly within a matter of days or weeks), to anywhere in the world.

I love the fact that GWB announced today that our Air Force and Navy would be delivering humanitarian supplies to Georgia - and then within less than an hour, the first C-17 transport landed in Tsbilisi!

Voila! A new fact on the ground!

The Russians dare not interfere with our military. And of course, with our military on the scene in Georgia, we can immediately confirm what the Russians are doing, or not doing, to comply with the cease fire they agreed to.

Also, there is nothing the Russians can do - short of war itself - to stop us from resupplying and enhancing the depleted Georgian armed forces, in terms of weapons, training, and supplies.

GWB has already drawn the line in the sand. All the Russians can do now is try to save face. Just as the USA will not go to war with Russia over Georgia, neither will Russia go to war with the USA over Georgia.

We called their bluff.

The world is now watching to see Russia's reaction.

And this is exactly why Obama's candidacy has just been smothered in the crib by this little affair.
dudley writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:45 PM
mmm..
One should never underestimate the Russians or their intentions, which at this point in history are entirely self-interested, nationalistic, and focused on demonstrating military strength. All these have come into play in the "war" with Georgia.

But what about this leader of Georgia, Saakashvili? He launched an attack against all reason, primarily aimed at a civilian population, against all advice from his ally, the US; he has made hysterical accusations about Russian intentions, actions, and what has really happened on the ground, much untrue or unfounded. Now he will receive a visit from Secretary Rice. She needs to assess this individual, see what's really happening, and take a positive role in ensuring that the conflict really ends. Not an enviable role, but one that should be in the best interests of the US, not the Russians or the Georgians.
athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:47 PM
JimP - I understand your point about
engaging the lefties. But you see, this is a conservative site. The lefties have all the lefty sites in the world to infest with their drivel. Why let them take over our sites?

Just to give you an example, I recently wrote an email to Duane the "Generalisimo" about how the lefties had completely taken over most of the comment pages on hughhewitt.com. I cited one post of Hugh's that had a total of 95 comments, and of those 95 comments, 37 were posted by the lefty seminar posters (and mostly off target and consisting of stupid juvenile rants) and another 20 or so were replies from the conservatives ... so the bottom line was that 60% of the commentary was virtually off topic.

When the typical lefty comment has a headline of "Screw McCain", as the top of this thread does, then the whole point of hosting responsible, intelligent exchange of conservative commentary on events of the day is defeated.

Nope, Jim - we should simply ignore the knuckleheads, and address only each other.

We conservatives are going to disagree with each other on numerous topics anyway - so I am not trying to squelch good-natured disagreement. I am simply saying that we need not and should not waste our time with the lefty seminar posters - the same kind of people that Rush regularly screens out 90% of the time from his callers, in order to make sure that the lefties don't hijack his message and his product.

We should do likewise.
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 2:55 PM
ATHINGORTWO
Sorry, but I disagree.
Respectfully.
Joe writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:04 PM
Pasadena Phil
Thanks for updating your blog. The Strafor report is good to have available like that and your anaylsis is good too. Powerline is a good place to go, but so is the Belmont Club (which has bene also tracking this conflict from the start).
cmoore writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:08 PM
What was that King Liberal ?
Ok lets give you your comment about a failure to deal with the situation in Eastern Europe.

Tell me what you "Honestly" think a president Obama will do, and please comeback in a few years if he has failed and feel free to call him on it as well.
athingortwo writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:15 PM
JimP - do you regularly
post in-your-face conservative comments over at HuffPost, or KosFiles? And do you headline your posts there with phrases like "Screw Obama!"?

My guess is, your answer is "no".

We have better things to do and talk about.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:16 PM
Brigs
keep covering your ears and singing La La La Na Na Na?

========================================

WOW your IQ level is making my eyes burn.
Salty Alaskan writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:27 PM
Athingortwo & P Phil
Maybe. I don't see the value of going "all in" with the G8/military/sanctions course if you can get the same response with just the threat.

Also, if I'm correct Putin/Russia had no intention of doing much beyond what they've already done, most of this may be moot. Not sure what to make of their regime change and war crime trials rhetoric yet. If they go that route my calculus obviously changes, and we might be forced to do more.

The flip side of your economic argument is Russia doesn't "need" the US economy either, at least not with petrodorubles flowing in.
Salty Alaskan writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:33 PM
dudley
Wow, I just had to pinch myself. I actually agreed with everything you posted.

Don't ruin our moment by providing more detail! :)
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:48 PM
JamesB
Listening to Condolezza Rice on CNN with her strength and sobriety,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, well. Comments from a drunk and a drug user.

I use them words James, because it makes as much sense as your last post.
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:48 PM
Condi Speaks Will Russia Listen
Condi finished here briefing with reporters which was on Fox Live.

Look for a transcript, it's good stuff. She was tough.

She was very strong in her statements, and it appears the Bush administration is up to speed on this issue now.

Humanitarian aid has been dropped, and more coming tomorrow.

There is now consistent incremental pressure and rhetoric. Russia needs to back down or they will be humiliated.
Dustoff-507 writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 3:59 PM
Robert
I don't think Putin cares.

Look how many reporters have been murdered in that counrty when they oppose him.
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:01 PM
Condi Rice briefing link
The video is on CSPAN:
http://www.cspan.org/
JimP writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:17 PM
ATHINGORTWO
Of course, I do not post at HufPo et al. Since the lefties choose to try to disrupt discourse here, and on other conservative sites, and generally spread their agitprop and make a nuisance of themselves, I choose to counter their BS when the mood strikes me. I do understand your point and I do not take issue with your choice to speak only to fellow conservatives. As for me, I choose the course I stated previously. My impression overall is that we not only dominate the convesations here, but effectively rebutt the lefties disinformation.
Best wishes,
Jim
paddy o'furniture writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:32 PM
I have to agree about.....
...throwing the Russkies out of G-8. That never should have happened in the first place. It's better to correct a mistake than to have it live in perpetuity just to save face.
If this is the beginning of Cold War II, look for Ivan to probe to see how far we can be pushed, and then he'll back off and say he wanted peace all along.
Unfortunately, we can be pushed a lot further than we used to....
Just keep praying that BHO is never the one at the switch.
Joe writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:47 PM
Gang of 10 Heroes
1. The "gang of 10" bill unilaterally opens up drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, with no state veto. The GOP bill didn't do that, because Mel Martinez and Charlie Crist didn't want it. Non-Gulf states Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolinas can opt-in if they like; the old GOP bill was opt-in everywhere, allowing Florida to block drilling in the Gulf off of its shores.

2. The bill also allows for seismic exploration along the entire continental shelf.

3. The ban on drilling within 50 miles of the coast was also in the GOP bill.

4. Contrary to many commentators' claims, the "gang of ten" bill is not a lifeline for Obama: "What a bunch of C-R-A-P. " (Yes, he spelled it out like that) "If Obama embraced this, he would be the biggest flipflopper ever." A lot of the opposition to the bill is really a case of trying to keep drilling as an election issue instead of getting more drilling.

5. The bill includes a Zubrin-like flex-fuel provision, requiring that 75% of cars by 2015 and 85% by 2020 be capable of running on something besides gasoline.

6. "Our bill also opens up coal-to-liquids. We couldn't have gotten 44 Republicans for that."

7. The bill is "incredibly aggressive" on nuclear power, including accelerated-depreciation provisions like those for solar and wind power, more NRC resources to speed licensing, and an end to the Carter-era ban on nuclear fuel reprocessing. "We couldn't have gotten 44 Republicans on this."

8. The bill also promotes cellulosic ethanol.

http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/022864.ph p
Patriotic Liberal writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:56 PM
There's a bottom line here..
Right-wingers today think that merely because they are "willing" to use violence, they are more realistic than us. On the contrary, their willingness to ignore historic forces and cozy up to a country like Georgia is maximum naive. Like a child naive. And like that dithering and presumptuous coot McCain, they think they can bluff their way through history. Well guess what. Everyone knows you are a bunch of phonies. What?! You're gonna start World War III? Or are you going to bluster a little more before you capitulate? Grow up, you dull-to-normal louts..

Maybe if you had not fired the cannon in Iraq, your bluffs might have carried a little more weight. But American neoconservatives are the biggest blowhards on theworld stage, and everyone knows it. They are the little punks in school who loved to see fights--so long as it was not themselves. A disgrace to our nation. Thank goodness we have an opportunity to expunge the stink of them from our national honor.
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 4:56 PM
Amen: Paddy
What is it the libs don't understand about leverage? There is only freedom thru strength; subjugation thru weakness.

The only leverage we have is either economic, military or mutually-beneficial alliances. Throw them out of G-8 now!

You let bullies push you around, you know what happens? They are just emboldened. Dr. Laura has told us that.

When I started teaching 8th grade as a little greenie teacher, my principal, who had been a Marine sergeant in Korea, the football coach and vice principal at the high school (the discplinarian) said to me:

I have two words of advice for you K.G.: Be meaner than hell and don't take any of their crap.

It worked for 8th graders and a bunch of other people, including my grandchildren. Of course, grandma owning her own X-box doesn't hurt.

Sticks and carrots; I don't care. But w/o leverage and willingness to use it, we're screwed.

Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:09 PM
Joe: Gang of 10
Joe, thanks for the post. I provided a link to the CSPAN video on the gang of 10 briefing in the "gang of 10" thread hugh started.

I disagree with hugh, rush and others who think this is good for democrats.

It's not even a bill. It's just a framework.

Keep the message clear. Republicans want a debate on energy, and they want a vote. The gang of 10 is one option on the table to start the debate.

Also, remember the environment in which this framework was created, it's been going on for a couple of months. I suspect, when the debate starts in a couple of weeks, the actual bill will open more areas of drilling.

Those who are watching the CSPAN house republican energy daily briefings know that house members are not bashing this framework, but saying all they want is debate and a vote.

It is counter productive to bash the pro-drill democrates who signed up to this framework, which can easily change and be expanded when the debate happens.

Most of these pro-drill democrates, want the entire OCS to be opened up, including ANWR, but their framework is constructed to pass a 60 seat majority in the senate, over a month a go...these folks are on our side.

paddy o'furniture writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:10 PM
ATOT
I don't disagree about refraining from engaging most of the lefties. When it comes to a certain tu-tu wearing West Hollywood liberal who pronounces himself superior to everyone else, yeah...good riddance. I never read his posts anymore anyway.....he flipped some time ago. The female East Coast distributoress of lefty hatred.....absolutely.

I kinda like Briggsy, though, in spite of the fact that I never agree with him. A little antagonism is necessary to any debate....no?
Kevin writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:15 PM
John McCain = Wikipedia
McCain plagiarized most of his statement on Georgia from Wikipedia. That's not a very good "argument why voters should elect the Arizona senator and not Barack Obama" Hugh.

K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:20 PM
The Best Argument For...
John McCain is Barack Obama. Sad situation, huh?
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:26 PM
PL, make some sense
Either "neo-cons" use violence or they don't. Seems that defending ourselves in Afghanistan and Iraq IS using force so it is not all talk.

Are you dredging up the Chickenhawk argument again? A sure sign of frustration with losing.
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:29 PM
AEI Panel
You can find a great AEI Panel on the Georgia\Russia conflict here:
http://www.cspan.org/Recent/Default.aspx

It's an hour and forty minutes, and it goes into a lot of detail. There is a U.S. acitve Col. on the panel which worked with the Georgian Mility a few months ago, and other known folks who are experts in this area.



Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:30 PM
Robert, "framework"?
Why is that relevant? Gang of 14 wasn't a bill either. Neither was the Keating 5. It's just that this is just not how the system is supposed to work. You can't have a ruling "gang" conspiring to usurp the traditional leadership roles of the party leaders. It is another form of corruption. If I were John Boehner, I would be very upset.
Briggsy writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:30 PM
Kevin, I think Wikipedia is
a magnificent compendium of first-impression knowledge on most subjects.

And I would never object to McCain or anyone else giving themselves a crash course by consulting Wikipedia entries.

I applaud McCain's use of the internet.

From what I've heard, computers have not played much of a part in his life at all.

No calculators, no computers, no internet, no email.

Welcome, John McCain, to this splendid resource.

Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:31 PM
Robert etal
I will be presenting a guest blogger on my blog in the next day or so who is an active Marine Colonel who was in Georgia less than 2 weeks ago leading the military exercises. If you're interested, check in and take a look.
Brianbnc writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:34 PM
Yes, K.G.
I happen to think it applies the other way around as well. Which is why we have a dead heat.
Pasadena Phil writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:38 PM
Salty Alaskan
"Also, if I'm correct Putin/Russia had no intention of doing much beyond what they've already done, most of this may be moot."

Wrong as can be. They continue to send in tanks and troops while cities are being looted and pillaged. Putin is demanding international recognition of the sovereignty of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as well as demanding the removal of the Georgia government. They deny the last demand but since they refuse to negotiate with Saakashvilli, they are refusing to acknowledge the duly elected head of state of a democratic country. They don't get to choose who the negotiate with, the citizens of Georgia do.

I really don't understand what "threat" you are talking about that would get the same results of as being kicked out of the G-8 and beginning talks for adding the Georgia and Ukraine to NATO and Georgia to the EU. This isn't a hypothetical situation. Russia doesn't respond to hypothetical threats.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:38 PM
Briggsy,
I've already told you wikipedia is the "People" magazine of reference material. Beware.
Robert writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 5:41 PM
Pasadena Phil
First, we are talking about the Senate, not the House. They work differently :)

Second, please watch their briefing. Both the Republican and Democatic leaders in the Senate were actively informed of this "framework", and neither of them were all that happy :)

Please watch the briefing on CSPAN. Just search for "gang of 10". They go into a lot more detail in that briefing, and answer questions. The "framework" issue is addressed, as well as a lot of other issues.

Hoosier writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:00 PM
Putkin
And just think, Putkin did this while sitting next to Bush at the Olympics. Now that is a poke in the eye. Ha ha ha
Hoosier writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:02 PM
Putkin and Bush
And just think, this all happened while Putkin was sitting next to Bush at the Olympics, Now that is a poke in the eye. Where was the CIA? Is this 7 years of Bush forgien policy?
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:42 PM
JimP...You Are Awful New and Fresh-Faced
at HH, I know. But, athingortwo and Paddy, veterans of the wars here, are correct. Your altruism is well taken, but misguided--by a mile. As most of us Cabal Members know, feeding the America Hating Leftoids with reasoned debate and critical thinking only sprays the weeds with MIRACLE GROW. Witholding attention starves them. Starving the punks is GOOD. The same with the astonishingly similar appetites of the Paleo-Paulbot-Buchaninte space grabbers on these threads. They crave American weakness and ignorance of reality with all the seditionist sincerity of Marxists feeding here.

I'm not referring, in either case, to the amiable halfwit Lefty, Briggsy or, nearer the center, Dudley aka Doodle Bug, Duddsoid, Doodles, etc.

It never, ever ceases to amaze me just how very close Paulbot-Paleos like Ryan or Sissy-Roe are to Lefties of the JamesB, Blovie Boy(PL), Dread(always claiming Conservative roots), Bufoboreas, Kimmy, the gone but never lamented Brob, etc, ad nausea. IF we'd just mind our own darn 'bidness, then EVIL won't bother us. WE are the cause of EVIL provoking us. Get it?

Nope, me neither.
paddy o'furniture writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:45 PM
Hoosier
There are smart people in Indiana too.....right?
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:47 PM
5:54pm On THIS Thread, It Is Alleged
that Don Rumsfeld will endorse O'Bammy.

The author must mean W's first Sec'y of State. That ain't NEVER gonna happen, neither. :-)

Promise.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:48 PM
Neo,
You're being an isolationist;) We should pre-emptively attack them.
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:50 PM
Paddy:The Indiana Genius Meant 'Pushkin'
Right?? The Pres luvs Rooskie poets. This is well known. :-)
Kevin writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 6:59 PM
Briggsy, My problem with McCain
Is not that his people used Wikipedia as a source for their statement on Georgia (in fact they lifted text, almost word for word), it's that doing so doesn't qualify a person for the presidency, as Hugh Hewitt seems to claim.

paddy o'furniture writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 7:15 PM
Actually James B....
Powell was never SecDef. Neo does NOT stand corrected because, as is his wont, he was correct all along.....
K.G. writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 7:20 PM
brian
Yup, it's a Mexican stand-off right now. But I am of the opinion that Joe Sixpack Dems will reject the femmie, lets-cut-America-down-to-size-so-she-will-quit-causing-trouble Obama for the flawed but grandfatherly old warrior whose patriot bona fides are not in question.

Real men (and women) and real Americans (just listening to Mack's moving Georgian speech) will vote for Mack in the end.

A lot of folks are shaking in their boots at turning both the Congress and presidency over to the Don't Drill Dems and wacked out environmental tyranny.
NeoConScum writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 7:30 PM
JBob...When WAS Colin Sec'y of Defense ?
You DID mean Rummy will endorse Bazama, right? Not gonna happen.

Nor Colin. You actually think Powell, Reagan's National Security Advisor, Bush Sr.s Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and W's Sec'y of State is going to cosign a pantywaist, clueless, empty-suit of a neo-Marxiian-Alinskyite?? O'Pleaaaassseeee.

Let's see...The man who stood in front of the useless Lefty Slicks in Davos and replied to their vapid preachments against American Strength with the words,"All America has asked in return was the ground to bury our dead,"...is going to sign up with a well manicured Radical ignoramous, spouting Monty Pyton rhetoric like, "We ARE the ones WE'VE been waiting for"...???

NOT in this Lifetime.
_________________________________________________

**Aplogies to JimP, whom I just scolded for feeding THEM Miracle Grow treatments! Hey, even the steely, yet delicate, Neo can have slips!**
dudley writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:07 PM
Hey, Salty,
just got back from work and read the thread. Yikes. Satisfied with my comment.

By the way, here do Alaskans, if you can remember, get their salt from? Do you know? Topic I've been reading about..
Cicero writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 8:56 PM
James B
LOL, kudos! I've been enjoying your posts immensely. Careful though, or athingortwo will petition "Generalissimo Duane" to have you thrown off the board.
Cicero writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 9:02 PM
D507
"Anyone notice that the bad guys have not stopped their land grab. So Cicero where are you?"

Right here, D507. And yes, I noticed. Have you noticed that this is taking place in *Eastern Europe*, and that accordingly this should be no surprise? And will you acknowledge the point that if Saakashvili hadn't invaded South Ossetia, which successfuly seceded from Georgia, that the latter would likely not have Russian troops in its soil right now?

By the way: don't you live in a land that was taken away from its original inhabitants and from Mexico by "raw English aggression?"
clarityseeker writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 10:23 PM
Cicero et al
writes:
"By the way: don't you live in a land that was taken away from its original inhabitants and from Mexico by "raw English aggression?"


And what is your point?


Name one region not "taken away" (your term) from one inhabitant by another over the centuries?
As a matter of fact----the event you refer to, involving the, Southwest Territories, were:
1.) "taken away", over 100 years ago---and,
2.) was done so, initiated by, the Democrats of that era.
3.) And is it not deliciously ironic that those who inhabited it at the time, largely decendents of the Spanish and the French, took it away from the previous inhabitants---and still, they were not the first humans to reside in that region.

Again, your point is..............?
dudley writes: Wednesday, August, 13, 2008 11:11 PM
Democracy in the 21st century
Fascinating to see international relations leave the Bush administration in the dust. Russia is now proposing a "partnership" with the US. It wishes to be recognized for what is now true: it is a power back on the world's political stage. Hardly communist, Russia is now in fact a very conservative. Mr. Bush is doing his best, after the fact, to send aid to a small country, Georgia, that surely needs it, but led by a fool.
Russia has put down the gauntlet for a real debate about power and democracy. I say that our future is to take them up on it, and may democracy, as the Greeks invented it, win.
Joe, Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Right writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 12:16 AM
Note Obama-Chamberlain
And that brings us to a final point: can you imagine the press reaction if a Republican president (or even a candidate) hid from direct questioning from the media for five days during an acute international crisis? The media is still too enamored of The One to mention it, but Obama’s reclusiveness is odd in the extreme and deeply troubling. Isn’t he capable of directly engaging the American people except via a stream of ever-migrating written statements prepared by his gang of 300 advisors? It really is time for Barack Obama to step out from behind the palm trees and start answering tough questions (e.g. Why did you equate victim and victimizer as your first reaction? What precisely would you do now?). It is not becoming of a presidential nominee to go to the movies while war erupts and our international credibility teeters on the brink of utter collapse. It’s certainly not inspiring confidence in his ability to navigate during an international crisis. Voters should take note.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/202 72
ty writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 12:34 AM
John Wayne Diplomacy.
I'm sick of all the cowboy rhetoric and John Wayne diplomacy that George Bush has started and McSame as Bush wants to continue. Now that our standing in the world is shaken, we can no longer trot around making demands and expecting others to do as we say and not as we do. This is real life and not a western. Real people die whenever there is war and that's something that needs to be taken into consideration before making rash decisions and shooting off at the mouth like these two.
Obama pleeeease for President!!!!
NeoConScum writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 5:47 AM
tv...focus...Focus...FOCUS..
No.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 10:14 AM
cicero is lofty
but he peters out quickly when confronted by history.
NeoConScum writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 4:56 PM
Scarlet..Perhaps Sissy-Roe is More Comfy
in his White Salamander costume. :-)
John writes: Thursday, August, 14, 2008 5:55 PM
Russia
Will liberals ever learn? I feel as if I am back in 1980. The liberals kept telling us that we needed to use diplomacy to deal with the Russians. They wanted four more years of Jimmy Carter's do-nothing but cowher-in-fear foreign policy. Fortunately, the American people rejected this approach. Thanks to the leadership of Ronald Reagan, we won the Cold War.
Now we are facing a similar situation. Sad to say, Barack Obama offers us even less than Jimmy Carter. While John McCain is no Ronald Reagan. He is a heck of a lot better than Barack Obama.
Marlson writes: Friday, August, 15, 2008 11:55 AM
ty
take your code pinko crap somewhere else. BORING. Only the politically ignorant are fooled into clapping at this rally cry for the ignorant.

Seriously, its played out and doesn't inform anyone.

beat it.
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