Monday, April 16, 2007
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21 32 Dead at Va. Tech, 20+ Injured After Gunman Opened Fire
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Posted by:
Mary Katharine Ham at
12:35 PM
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This is just awful: A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said. On the Web site, Tech reported the shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and said there were "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building. All entrances to the campus were closed and classes canceled through Tuesday. "There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said student Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dormwhere shooting took place. Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville,said the shooting happened on the 4th floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put. "They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again." "We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said. Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN,said, "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on thefloors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible." It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting. In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guardoff campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.
Fox is saying the shooting started around 7:15 a.m. at a dorm, where one person was killed. More than an hour later, wearing an ammo vest, the gunman went classroom to classroom in an engineering building shooting at will, killing more than 20 more. Fox has 20 confirmed deaths, AP's reporting 22 dead. How is that no one got a handle on this guy and the buildings locked down between the first killing and the subsequent spree? Was the lockdown lifted in between shootings, as the above quote indicates? Frightening.
Update: Apparently, there's cell phone video of the attack. Heard they showed it on CNN.
The shooting was partially captured on a student’s cellphone videocamera showing grainy black figures on the street outside of campusbuildings. Popping sounds from the gunfire were audible. Update: Understatement of the day: "It was a little nerve-wracking," he said. Update: E.D. Hill and Orlando Salinas are both reporting on Fox, I believe from independent sources, that the shooter was looking for his girlfriend. That could, of course, just be a rumor that's made it to more than one student and back to Fox. Another unconfirmed story is that students were lined up and shot, execution-style. Update: Lovely: The press corps is already asking Dana Perino about gun control. On the other hand: Icertainly wish that someone had been in a position to shoot this guy atthe outset. Update: New reports say anywhere from 29-32 dead. Sadly, I'm sure the total will rise.
The statement from the Va. Tech president. Update: Shootings not random?
The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ PeteWilliams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. Heappeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-eddormitory and a classroom housing engineering and business classes. Update: CNN tape of Derek O'Dell, a survivor, describing the shooter and scene. "Asian man, in his 20s, maroon hat, black leather jacket."
Update: Both condolences and early gun control campaigns are on display on Facebook:
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As to Mr Buck's statements, Virginia has for many years now been a one gun a month state. Acoording to BATF figures and leads, most of the illegal guns are being filtered thru NJ, not VA. As to compentant crime fighting techniques, I think most city mayors haven't a clue as to what to do. Speaking to the rest of his rant, as it is all hate and bile, I will not address it.
I know I do grieve for the victims. Simple procedures that should have been put into place since the last campus shooting (by an escaped convict) less than a year ago would have saved many lives. But they weren't instituted or even attempted. There wasn't even a PA system in that building. You had a known shooter on the loose since 7am and no announcement. From my days at the Richmond Regional Criminal Justice Training Center in Va, I know that the police and the college really screwed the pooch on this one. |
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Here is an example of bravery. In some of the clasrooms there were unarmed ROTC students. At the request of the teachers, they braced and stood guard at the doors of the classrooms without locks. It is unknow at this time how many lives were saved by their brave actions. This was reported yesterday by the local NBC affiliate.
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"Virginia is a prime feeder state - as any mayor or NYC cop will tell you, so this is a bit of poetic justice - those 32 kids (mostly white and/or Asian, I bet) blasted at that college help pay for all the people who died from guns sold in Virginia and funneled to NYC..."
You are a sick, sorry, depraved piece of sh!t. I wish people like you were the victims, not these innocent college kids with their whole lives in front of them. |
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You mean to tell me that in rural/mountainous Virginia that not one student/employee was a hunting enthusiast who happen to have access to their firearm? In the car? Dorm?
I know, I wasn't there and I shouldn't ... but damn. It's just so damn frustrating when some ba#*!%d can crush so many lives in one morning for no reason....
My prayers will be continuous all day for our Nation. |
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Just one (1) person with a gun and the ability to use it in defense of themselves and others and this nightmare would have been cut short. Just one. Let alone maybe arming the cops? Hello? |
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Why is Law Enforcement Response so Slow?
This is an awfully sad case and really not the time to discuss pumping rounds into perps.
The response of law enforcement to these events seems painfully slow. Another shooter ends up doing himself in before the cops arrive. The rules seem to hamper the engagement of shooters in these cases by first responders. I can understand an individual cop waiting for some back-up, but there should be more of a rush to the sound of gunfire attitude instilled in the police. Do they need to set up a command center? Must they wait for a SWAT team to engage?
Some of these jurisdictions possess incredible firepower and armor with all of the WOT funding and surplus military hardware. There are State troopers in my neighborhood pulling down six-figure salaries with overtime. They make a whole lot more than an 11 Bravo in Iraq, so don't push the old line about risking life for the money. Cops have guns and body armor, the victims don't. As taxpayers that the government hopes to disarm someday, we should be expecting a little more protection for our money.
I hope that there is some real investigation into how our taxes are being spent. The SWAT teams seem ineffective at the missions for which they were designed. The only thing they seem to be able to engage in VA are unarmed Fairfax optometrists being busted for gambling.
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VT is 2600 acres. That is a lot of territory. Even if there are a lot of campus police they are spread out and some might be on bikes. It would take them a few minutes to figure out which building and then break the barricades.
One option that would increase presence would be to take senior Crimnal Justice students and give them internships to act as under cover campus cops. That makes the cost more feasible and maybe the cost could come from private scholarship funds. Even if they just had phone contact with the regular police that could help.
More is going to have to be done to secure the campuses in this country. They are sitting duck terror targets. |
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I watched with dismay as the police chief and college president responded to the press.
Out of the mouth of babes:
"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of the dorm.
"If you had apprehended a suspect, I could understand having classes even after two of your students have perished. But when you don't have a suspect in a college environment and to put the students in a situation where they're congregated in large numbers in open buildings, that's unacceptable to me."
This is neither about guns, race, religion nor the rule of law, mad men will be mad men, just another politically appointed inept bureaucracy in place…
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Could this be a terrorist attack right under our nose. |
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This is an awfully sad case and really not the time to discuss pumping rounds into perps.
The response of law enforcement to these events seems painfully slow. Another shooter ends up doing himself in before the cops arrive. The rules seem to hamper the engagement of shooters in these cases by first responders. I can understand an individual cop waiting for some back-up, but there should be more of a rush to the sound of gunfire attitude instilled in the police. Do they need to set up a command center? Must they wait for a SWAT team to engage?
Some of these jurisdictions possess incredible firepower and armor with all of the WOT funding and surplus military hardware. There are State troopers in my neighborhood pulling down six-figure salaries with overtime. They make a whole lot more than an 11 Bravo in Iraq, so don't push the old line about risking life for the money. Cops have guns and body armor, the victims don't. As taxpayers that the government hopes to disarm someday, we should be expecting a little more protection for our money.
I hope that there is some real investigation into how our taxes are being spent. The SWAT teams seem ineffective at the missions for which they were designed. The only thing they seem to be able to engage in VA are unarmed Fairfax optometrists being busted for gambling. |
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Mr Buck says -- Not because there's 32 dead college students - that's just Gunner Business as Usual - no, this is a sad day because gunners are fearful that the general public might wake up to their lies and murderous deceptions...
Sad - boo hoo...
You sound like an armchair quarterback, leading the fight to create more victims, leading the laws that create more criminals and not using a scrap of evidence to support your rants / hatred of the gun owners.
Mr. Buck Writes - Conservative... Pushes his wife in front of the bad guy to trip him up. Mr. Con then turns and runs to escape! He can always have another kid with his mistress! Later, he picks up a bible as they bury his family and swears revenge in the name of sweet Jesus...
I suppose this feeds into your highly intellectual morally superior dribble. Not sure what is morally superior about a person (you) who obviously has no ability to defend himself - (except with words). Seems to me that the morally superior position you advocate leads people into caskets, -- Oh wait your candy A** libs did that in vietnam too and are leading the way for iraq. It seems the morally superior argument IS to get people killed based on politics. Letting gov't take over to exterminate people, letting gov'ts handle your defense for you.
Grow a spine and rent a brain becasue the one you have is clearly malfunctioning.
People dies today that didn't have to. How many more people die before you can realize that self defense is a personal choice. It requires the ability to think for yourself and not post dribble with no factual evidence to back it up.
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Speaking as a fellow conservative Southerner, I'd split it down the middle: one magazine would do just fine. You'd be sure he's good and dead, but couldn't be accused of overkill.
My Daddy had the right idea: when I started driving back and forth to college, he bought his "little girl" a special handgun to keep in the glove compartment. Southern fathers protect their daughters, God bless them.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the students at Virginia Tech and to the families of those killed or injured.
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Why you gotta be such a jackazz?
Go back to your little corner of he11 you little twisted piece of sh1t ! |
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As I watched ABC nighly news I was surprised as they acknowledge both the arguements for gun control and also the TX approach of personal arms (Luby massacre in TX). |
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You wanna stick your head in the sand? Go ahead. Virginia is a right to carry state, except on campuses.
I say again, if the students had guns, this guy would not have gotten very far and far fewer innocents would be dead.
You can never prove a case for gun control, on campus or anywhere else.
Criminals will always be able to get guns, the law abiding citizens should be able to as well. |
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Almost all campuses are gun free zones. Either the universities have rules or the states have laws. If you are caught with a gun on campus you will most likely be kicked out of school, fired or arrested. |
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We have been looking at sometype of general ID card that would be visible (like security clearances). If you spotted someone on campus who was not wearing a visible ID you would know they were suspect.
That would not protect from problem students but it would identify non students on campus. |
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I have a data set of 804 respondents the comprehensively addresses security issues of a particular campus. One of the ideas from the focus groups that produced the questions for the survey was an emergency number (1 or 2 digit) that students could call in an emergency that would ring at campus police headquarters. One of the best protections the students have are thier cell phones and thier ability to communicate.
The campuses also need an automatic broadcast dialing system that can leave emergency broadcast messages on the cell phones to alert the students of danger on campus. |
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the right-to-AK's only argument is that if 19 year old college students had glocks in their backpacks, this would have been stopped...sterling.
and how pathetic the very first words out of george bush's mouth was an apologia for gun owner rights...
a truly sad day for america. |
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I keep hearing the bleeding hearts talking about this tragedy. How about talking about the stupidity of letting ourselves be sheep led to the slaughter time and time again? Feel sorry for the families? I feel too outraged. If it were one of my kids, I'd be boring in on the political cowards in this country who won't let us defend ourselves. How many times are we going to allow this to go on? The only law these killers understand is the point of a gun. This killer went unmolested through a gun-free zone. The citizenry needs to be armed because our government and other leaders are not protecting or defending us. The police need to remove from their motto the word Protect. |
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My daughter's boyfriend Jacob, attends VaTech, go to the link below and read his account of the shootings at the school. Thanks to Michelle for posting his email.
Needless to say, but our prayers go out to those who had loved ones and friends killed in this insane incident.
Pointedly, I must note that people are actively condemning the legislators who refused to allow students to carry guns on campus. I think if students had been shooting back, few would be dead.
http://www.michellemalkin.com/ |
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Where has our modern penchant for gun control brought us? Crazies know that they can go to any school, any university, any business and the likelihood of finding an armed citizen is almost zero. The MSM and politicians will use this as an opportunity to try to disarm responsible law abiding citizens even further.
Every American parent who loves their children should teach their them how to use guns safely and responsibly. Right now, most teach them to pretend they don't exist. |
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Go to any MSM site and they have a poll about gun control with the stories about this tragedy. I'm still waiting for any MSM outlet to make the obvious connection that these mass shootings only occur in gun control areas. The schools are probably the only place in Virginia where the citizens are all unarmed. |
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nolongersilent,
I was thinking the same thing, but when you're not there, it's hard to know what the opportunities were. The shooter may've also have told them he was part of a group of gunmen, so fighting back was a waste of time. Something like that.
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Here's a link to the Richmond Times Dispatch, http://www.timesdispatch.com/ and on its front page there is a link to the local news station's live feed from the college. |
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With the 2nd Amendment and the volumes of evidence from the founding fathers that self defense is an inalienable right, how do universities, schools and other entities get away with denying the ability to defend oneself?
My wife is a teacher and is not allowed to have a weapon on herself or in her car in the parking lot. The local school system has the right to deny her right to self defense when going to work and home from same?
People also need to know that very early in the Palestinian terror bloodbath Israeli schools were a prime target for mass murder. Was the Israeli response to make sure no-one at those schools had the ability to defend themselves, others or their students? I don't think so, their response was to arm and train the faculties. Heard about a shooting at an Israeli school since?
Will we ever learn, or will we continue to respond to such disasters as airliner hijackings by making sure the entire passenger body has no means to defend themselves and the plane?
When will we learn that the only means to self defense are equalizers. Guns are just that, an equalizer that allows a small, elderly woman the ability to defend herself from the largest, strongest man on earth.
We will always have ruthless madmen. The only thing that may make them consider their actions is the knowledge that they will be stopped by their victim, or someone close.
By the way, the answer to single shot or empty the magazine is you have the right to shoot until the threat is nuetralized. |
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Virginia is a right to carry state. Anyone without a felony conviction can carry a handgun openly. Concealed carry is restricted to license holders. Firearms purchase is limited to one gun (handgun or long gun) every 30 days.
VT bars students from keeping guns on campus. Students may check guns at the campus police station for use off campus. Employees resident on campus may own personal firearms but may not carry on campus. Only campus employee required to carry (security guards) may do so. As far as I am aware, these guidelines do not have the force of law so a private citizen not affiliated with the college (non-student or non-employee) may be asked to leave if found to be carrying a gun, but I am not sure they can be prosecuted in any manner.
Marc of CA - thanks for the news report. |
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If you can get thru on this link
http://tinyurl.com/2t953s
You will find the VT paper explaining how they defeated the pending law that would have allowed students on campus to carry guns for self-defense.
You even get an email address to send your thoughts to the nice lady who does the Governmant Interaction work. She most likely was involved in the defeat of self-defense on campus.
Sleeping well tonight? You practically opened the door for a killer. IMHO
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the new law is that can rule it self defense unless you change mags. watch out for headshots too, some people call that assasination.
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"He needed killing" may or may not fly with the judge, but it will dam sure work on the jury. Your entire trial strategy is to make the jury wish they could go back in time and kill the guy themselves. |
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there would be no more mass murder in the world, because the first shot out of some wacko in a crowd would also be his last. |
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As a fellow conservative and one of Tennessee birth, I'm fine with you just shooting him once. The real question for me is, after shooting the perp, whether you should pass the weapon to the kids and wife so they can have their turn. It'd be especially good for the boy. |
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be at least one "anti-Bush" comment, and sure enough LzVandy contributed it. This whole tragic event will be another excuse to go after President Bush, conservatives, gun owners, video game designers, and anyone who does not fall for lib-spin/stupidity. I was thinking back to a Texas college campus shooting (1970's?) Wonder who was blamed then for a killer who went off in a similar fashion?
That being said, my heart aches for these families who have lost an adult child in this horrific manner and for all the remaining students who lived through this ungodly scare. |
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If the shooter was a science or engineering student, he certainly didn't need a gun to kill thirty people. He could've used the same materials that Timothy McVeigh used in Oklahoma, available from most farm supply stores. The best place to avoid getting shot by a madman is at a police station or a firing range.
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How do you tell the difference between Liberals,
Conservatives, and Southerners?
Pose the following question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your
wife and two small children. Suddenly, a
dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes
around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams
obscenities, raises the knife, and charges.
You are carrying a Hand Gun and you're an
expert shot. You have mere seconds before he
reaches you and your family.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Liberal Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer
the question! Does the man look poor or
oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that
would inspire him to attack? Could we run away?
What does my wife think? What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and
knock the knife out of his hand? What does the
law say about this situation?
Does my gun have an appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content to only wound me or just take my money? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9–1–1?
Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a ‘Paint and Weed Day’ and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.
Conservative Answer:
BANG!
Southerner's Answer :
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click…
(sounds of reloading).
Wife: "Hun, he looks like he's still moving, whadda y'all kids think?"
Son: "Mama's right Daddy, I saw it, too."
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click.
Daughter: "Nice group, Daddy! Were those bullets the Winchester Silver Tips?”
----------------------------------------------
Question: I’m Both a Conservative and a Southerner. So here’s my problem:
In such a circumstance, should I shoot just once or fire 2 full magaziens?
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If you think it's bad here, go to Great Britain, where even using a weapon in self defence is a felony.
Has any pacificst ever walked through SoHo at night? Or one of the many "no-go zones" of London, Brimingham or Manchester (a no-go Zone is a place so dangerous that even the police refuse to patrol there. London has 16 of them. The EU has ID'd over 800 No-Go Zones. You see, hand guns are outlawed in most of the EU nations, but most of thier cities are now surpassing American cities like Chicago, LA, and Miami as far as violent crimes go. So much for gun control.
Oh, and gunowners do not worry. The Dems are not so stupid as to make gun control an issue only 18 months before a national election. They may pontificate, but they learnt thier lessons well. Twently Two House Seats they won in 2006 are in Red States. They will have enough trouble keeping those districts; if they put control on the agenda, they will lose big time.
It is a crime that students cannot even go to class without fear of some deranged man or woman going after them. The real issue here is not guns, but violent felons who keep getting put back into society despite thier propensity for murder. May the Souls of the faithful departed Rest in Peace. |
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"Some terrorist" already did this. In Seattle. And in Salt Lake City. |
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To the fools on this thread who think guns are easy to obtain - they are just as easy to obtain as regulated narcotics. If you want to follow the law, you have to go through a correct, proscribed process and have a legal ability to do so, or you can break the law and buy it from a junkie on a corner. Lemme see - what law will stop junkies from selling guns? - er, well, ahh - NONE. Because that is ILLEGAL NOW.
This jack@ss will have been mentally ill and no one was there to stop him.
Wait for some terrorist to pick on this ... it's gonna happen - and when the sheep are lined up, it's gonna be worse. |
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do you know which argument(s) you are making. Sounds like you have difficulty staying on topic. I am pro-choice and attitudes like that are irritating.
Perhaps you should consider that pro-gun and pro-life go hand in hand and start thinking it though.
Example, because I am pro-gun, I am pro-life. I am very pro for the lives that were lost today because if the campus would have had a pro-gun provisions for people who were trained, more people might not have died today. Becasue I am pro-life, I value the lives of students who were preveneted from defending themselves against this purely evil attacker. All that and I still believe in choice. |
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You know just shooting a deer is troubling to some. To shoot 32 dead and wound over 25.....you are a trained professional killer. This isn't over some gal, this is a thorough job by an enemy of America.
Which of course makes him a friend of Bush. |
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Fully automatic firearms will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed. Automatic weapons are already illegal to own unless you have a special collectors permit, issued by the BATF after a rather lengthy process and background check. As of yet, the type of weapon/weapons used in this tragedy has not been released. It is unknown if it was a handgun or a long gun or how it was obtained. As it was an Engineering college, it might even have been homemade (the process for making a Sten gun, a machinegun used during WWII, and the sheet metal stampings have been online for years now and it is quite easy to produce in a home hobby shop). Also of note, in the past two weeks there have been two bomb threats at this same college. Wonder if there is any connection?
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STFU!
Who cares about your partisan bullsh*t today?!
Think about the victims, their families, and friends, and if you believe in "God" pray for them. |
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Just another lib aping Janet Reno & Waco... |
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No, the problem is that the 32 students would have had to jump through hoops to get a weapon. It was made too difficult and none did, had even one of them been armed, this massacre could have eneded earlier. |
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If I may, I would like to un-boggle your mind. I am against the taking of innocent life and thus am pro-life. Since I am against the taking of innocent life, I am also for giving the innocent a means to defend themselves against the evil who would take their lives.
The fact is that you can never take all the guns away from the criminals. You can take them from the law-abiding. Just think of it this way, would the police be more effective at stopping crime using handguns or using daisies?
That being said, it is sad how fast this turned (is turning) into a political issue. (and yeah, I know, I participated in it) |
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You are a well intentioned person that has no idea what the hell you are talking about. You don't even know what an automatic weapon is. People fear what they do not understand. Educate yourself. |
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Angry flower and Jessica have all made reference to easy access of guns. It strikes me that this classic bent, non factual liberal thinking only serves to make the argument that more guns available might have saved some lives to day. My heart truly goes out the families of the deceased. I cannot comprehend the evil it takes for a person to do a mass shooting.
So thanks to Jessica and Angry Flower for pointing out that the students of V Tech had such easy acess to guns as a viable means of there own self defense. For if they had easier access and were empowered through a right to carry permit and proper training, someone might not have lost their life today.
But becasue they had such easy access they were lined up and executed wihtout fighting back.
How many people died today that didn't have to?
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Going through the proper checks is not that easy. Most states have a "cooling off" period for those people that want to buy guns. Guns are smuggled into the US just like drugs are. Guns are stolen from homes as well. It isn't like walking into a 7-11 and getting at candy bar like so many people make it out to be. |
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From Mr. Buck...
"they get what they deserve..."
What bull. These student didn't deserve to be killed, you're just flying off the handle. That was uncalled for.
I legally own a firearm and I obey the laws. Not only do citizen that follow and respect the laws they uphold the laws as well. People that legally obtain firearms seldom (I didn't say ever) break the law using those same firearms. It is the people that acquire firearms illegally that are the issue. There are gun crimes in nations with much more stringent gun control laws as ours. If someone want to do harm to another person they will find a way...period. |
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You assume this person went out and legally bought his weapon(s) at a sporting goods store, or other legal means. We really don't know how he got the weapons (if you do have credible info please tell). How can you tell me that VT has "no gun control at all."
What exactly do you propose? They already ban anyone from carrying weapons on the campus.
I hate to go here because it just opens up a world of fun but...the first thing the Nazis did was take away the guns of the Jews, so that they would put up less resistance to the SS. Sorry for going there everyone, but it had to be done. |
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Wow, I really wish you could edit. I really need to spell check more, and be sure to re-read things. I meant DOZENS more not doesn't and I meant "had THERE been" not "had their been". I really do know the difference between There, Their, and They're. |
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Set aside the fact gun control has been a failure in every country it’s been attempted. Here are a few “INCONVENIENT TRUTHS” that Liberals and gun grabbers like the Brady Campaign refuse to deal with in their Delusional Fantasy of a "Gun Free Society".
Fact #1: There were 280 Million Registered guns in the U.S. as of Dec. 2006, and an estimated 120 Million Unregistered. By the end of 2007 there will be over 300 MILLION registered guns and a corresponding increase in unregistered, or a mind boggling HALF BILLION guns in private ownership according to the DOJ. 1 out of every 3 households now own guns, and ownership is increasing. Libs in big city Blue States have trouble accepting these FACTS, as they often don’t know anyone who owns a gun. But these DOJ numbers correspond to National findings, where in Red States, gun ownership includes a MAJORITY of homes. Both the DOJ and BATF admit they’d be powerless to put even an insignificant dent in these numbers, if called upon to do so.
Fact #2. In the unlikely event law enforcement or the military were charged with the DANGEROUS task of gun confiscation, there is a major problem. Police officers and the military are overwhelming Conservative, and as such, believe in upholding the Constitution, including the 2ed Amendment. I should know. I’m a former Police and Military Officer, now retired. I’ve questioned many of my fellow Military and Police Officers, and ALL state that as a result of the law suit and public relations disaster resulting from the Hurricane Katrina gun confiscation, they’d refuse to carry out confiscation orders; even at the risk of their careers or court martial. All have told me that such enforcement would not only be Unconstitutional, but require entering the homes of neighbors, friends, and relatives, many of whom own guns, to carry out confiscation. This they could not do. Then there’s the risk of being shot by people like me who would not hesitate using DEADLY FORCE to protect their 2ed Amendments rights. The so called “war on drugs”, which HAS the cooperation of law enforcement, is a massive failure. Think of the failure gun confiscation would be with very limited to no enforcement. And an unenforceable law essentially ceases to exist.
FACT #3: The only alternative left to Libs is their ULTIMATE GUN CONTROLL AGENDA: the repeal the 2ed Amendment, as was done with the 18th. But keep in mind the Volstead Amd. was universally UNPOPULAR. The 2ed Amd. has strong support. In March 2007 the DC Appellate Court ruled the 2ed Amd. is an INDIVIDUAL, NOT A COLLECTIVE RIGHT. So an attempt to get the required 40 of the 50 states, (most of which are gun friendly conservative), plus two thirds of the House and Senate to repeal the 2ed Amd. is a Lib wet dream fantasy. In the foreseeable future the fantasy of a “Gun Free Nation”, will remain just that: A FANTASY, believed by only the DELUSIONAL and the terminally STUPID. It won’t happen in my lifetime, yours, or your children’s. I won’t speculate on the far distant future. By then it won’t concern us. Till then, DREAM ON LIBS. In the mean time, I offer this challenge: EITHER SHOW ME A PRACTICAL WAY TO IMPLEMENT YOUR FANTASY, OR SHUT UP! To this day, not one Lib has answered my challenge. AND I CHALLENGE ANY TO DO IT NOW. And we now hear from the Looney Left the deafening roar of ....SILENCE!!!
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Virginia may not have strict gun control, but all the Universities and public schools sure do.
Fine, go ahead, solve these problems by taking firearms from every law abiding citizen. Turn us into a nation of lambs ripe for the slaughter. Our enemies from within and from without are watching.
Had their been even a 10 percent rate of students legally in possession of firearms, while they may not have prevented the sicko from beginning his rampage, an armed student body could have ended quickly.
Unless you want to live in a police state you can not rely on the police to defend you from those determined to do harm to others.
In days before there had been bomb threats as well. Take away the guns and those who are determined to slaughter will just improvise, and you will see bombs. At Columbine they had intended to use bombs, but most of their bombs failed to work. Had they been completely focused on the bomb aspect of their mayhem and made sure they worked, who knows how many would have died instead, probably doesn't more.
OH, and another thing one witness has already stated that it was an "asian man" wearing a vest with clips. So part of the same old same old profile may have fallen by the way.
At least train teachers to use and carry guns, please. Enough with the defenseless lambs to the slaughter.
And now on the tube, they are talking about violent video games.
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There is a "no weapons" policy on this campus. The law-abiding students could not carry even mace, if they wished. And while you may own a firearm in Va, it is limited by gun control laws to one purchase per month. But that is just to own. To carry you must go thru a background check, training, certification, and licensing. I have faced down gunmen before in my life. When you know you have nothing to lose, it either makes you afraid and you do as you're told ot it clarifies your thinking so you do as you need to survive, or it makes you stupidly brave. As I am still alive and typing this, I give this advice: I have done the last two and am still here. I knew a few who have done the first. I mourned at their funerals. Take the advice for what it is worth. |
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what you're talking about before you open your mouth on gun control. All VA state campuses are gun-free zones. This means that even a legal gun owner with a concealed carry permit can't carry on campus. That didn't seem to stop this crime, did it. Nor will it ever stop any such crime. All it does is keep citizens from protecting themselves. |
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"Does there need to be gun control in this country?"
Sure. Let's pass some more laws. I'm sure the thought of breaking three or four extra gun control laws would have kept this from happening. |
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Have an update from a Va live news feed. Seems there are over 30 confirmed dead, counting the shooter. It is stated that the shooter shot himself and is dead. Some of the classrooms don't have locks so the students can be secured. There was an earlier shooting, but for some reason, there was no assumption of correllation with the second round of shootings.
Yes, there was a similiar incident at a different Va college. It ended with 3 dead, one being the shooter, shot by an off-duty, out of jurisdiction, cop who went back out to his car, retrieved his side arm and ended the threat.
There seems to be a lot of things that can be done to prevent this in the future.
Interestingly enough, there is no mention of gun control on the local stations. They are focusing on security on campus, the victims, how to find out about someone, where parents/relatives should go to pick up students, that sort of things.
The security procedures that are being discussed are physical barriers during a lock down and the lack of the school's ability to make the connection between the first and second set of shootings. |
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This is not about gun control or ownership, this is about someone going on a rampage and killing people. |
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I believe nolongersilent's point was that this was going to be turned into an anti-gun issue by those on the left. **cough**Mr.Buck**cough** The problem with relying on the government for everything, including self defense, is that the government is largely incompitent. |
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"Let students on campus have the right to carry arms!"
Which ones should be allowed? Like the one who did this for example?
Or just outfit every single person with a gun? That would go well, eh? Darwin in action.
"These students just did what the gunman requested, right up to the point that they died."
Sick, just sick. You're so brave from your keyboard.
Not one of you cares that 22+ families lost children today. All you care about is that someone might question your guns.
Sick.
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...that the theme of the mainstream coverage will be "gun control," and not the real problem, of tolerating severely-mentally-unbalanced people on the streets, until it's too late. I'm sure that somebody knew that this fellow was going nuts, but honored his "right" to be insane. Diversity you know.
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...but either did not say anything or did and was ignored. The shooter will be a male in his 20's with a known history of mental issues. The gun will not, legally, be his. He will kill himself because there is no one legally armed on the campus to stop him. Ever since we closed the mental hospitals, beginning in 1963 and the ACLU has compelled the release of the mentally ill into society, this will continue to happen. If not guns, knives, if not knives, bombs, if not bombs, vehicles. The obsessive compulsives will always find a weapon, why can't we find them first? |
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