Tuesday, February 13, 2007
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The Salt Lake City Killings
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Posted by:
Hugh Hewitt at
8:13 PM
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This "coverage" of the Salt Lake City killings is astonishing --the lack of it, that is. There is at least the possibility that the killer in Salt Lake City was a jihadist., but the default setting seems to be "Columbine-style loner." My e-mail tells me his name is a common Muslim name, and a Bosnian refugee. Of course that proves nothing, but it raises questions --except in the MSM.
The sort of analysis that has appeared seems exceedingly strange --it is speculation that refuses to even consider terrorism as a motive:
It is likely that [Sulejman] Talovic was looking to make a statement by picking a public place and firing at seemingly random people.
"We don't need him to tell us he wants to shoot 'em up and make a name for himself," King said.
The reason behind the shooting spree may be found through talking to family and friends. Talovic may have dropped clues leading up to his actions, King suggested.
From the trench coat, which could have concealed his weapons initially, and the extra ammunition, these facts speak to the planned nature of the attack.
Farley added it is likely that Talovic knew how he would meet his end - in a gun battle with law enforcement.
"Was this a suicide by police?" he asked.
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I also noticed the shooter's Bosnian nationality and Muslim name, and that the media weren't asking the next obvious question. Bad form, you know.
Interestingly enough, I think Tom Clancy's latest novel had jihadists doing the same thing in another Utah mall, right down the freeway in Provo. |
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At least with the attacks in L.A., Seattle, and North Carolina the fact the perpetrator was Muslim was openly discussed (although diminished as a motive). Now they don't even discuss the possibility?
It is like the media is afraid they will spark a lynch mob. That is not helpful. Granted it is still early and there is not much to say yet other than religion may be a possible motive. It is reverse discrimination not to even discuss that possibility. |
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SÜLEYMAN from http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=su12leyman
The etymology and history of first names
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Turkish
Turkish form of SOLOMON. Süleyman the Magnificent was a sultan of the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century. He expanded Ottoman territory into Europe and Persia, reformed the government, and completed several great building projects.
I have it from a good well read source that "Bosnia Refugee" has a definition "Virtually all Bosnian refugees are Muslim."
From Baylor College site
"Virtually all Bosnian refugees are Muslim."
Could this be a Jihad Copy Cat like Seattle, San Francisco, Duke University and let us not forget John Mohammed Allen, the Washington Sniper...
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The suicidal segment of the culture (the one that runs the media, universities, government, etc) doesn't want to name the criminal or the enemy... it might make us judgemental |
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HE'S DEAD. he can't claim credit.
The call for Jihad has went out , and every Muslims is to participate in every way they individually can.
Admit it, you have no idea what Jihad is. you have no solution for it either, other than attack from your make believe land DemocraticPartyistan.
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according to the latest local news, and the local Bosnia community he possibly suffered from post tramatic syndrome steming from his childhood in war torn Bosnia. They are also saying that the community is partly to blame because we did not give them the mental health counseling they need to get over their terrible lives there. As if it was our responsibilty to give it to them. I really don't think terrorism had anything to do with it although he is Muslim. Our family often drives the 45 miles it takes to get there because it is such a nice place with alot of good restaurants and cute shops. It is just a terrible tragedy, the kid just snapped and many people suffered because of it. I do wish the news media would not cover it so much they are going overboard on it. |
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Asking if the big hairy dog like creature that just carried off your livestock is a wolf is a long way from "crying wolf".
What Hugh and many of us find strange is the media's obvious avoidance of the possibility of terrorism. They are more than happy to perpetuate crazy conspiracy theories on any number of other subjects but they won't even consider it in this case?
I am also so pleased to hear that the date for peace has been set as 2008. If you believe that a president with a D after his/her name is going to magically usher in an era of world peace then I fear you are in for a big nasty surprise. The only way that's going to happen is if we get really busy killing terrorists for the next 2 years so you guys can claim credit for the heavy lifting that you have so vocally objected to for so long.
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"I think all of them, Hillary and Obama included, are principled people who honestly want matters settled as justly and peacefully as possible." If this was the case, why don't we hear details of their great plans and not just more political posturing....jeez, wake up, get out of your make believe land, DemocraticPartyistan...H & H, Hill & Hussein have no principles, no plans and no ideas much less any competency in any area of security! |
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Why does this country allow such ridiculous immigration policies that allows Muslims to come to America?
Screw the PC.
I realize there are Muslims who are willing to come here and assimilate, but there are also those who are committed to causing terror and mayhem.
Why would we take these kinds of chances with our security? What good is it spending billions fighting a foreign war if we just allow potential jihadists to walk into this country with our blessings?
Are we suicidal? |
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The DC sniper, the LAX shootings, the Seattle Jewish center, and the NC student who plowed his car into a crowd all have similar characteristics to the mall killings. As far as I know, not one of the perpetrators was insane or mentally ill. None appear to have been members of terror cells. None of the victims were known to the killer. All of them, of course, were Muslim.
While it is true that the majority of Muslims have no intention of killing infidels, it is also true that the Koran condones such actions. Whenever you have a pious individual desiring to please Allah and procure his place in heaven, the possibility of committing a terrorist act exists. Combine that religious ferver with perceived injustice, and you will continue to get lone wolves killing innocent people.
In America you are free to practice your religion. You are not free to commit murder. Islam condones murder. Hence, we are facing a conundrum. Muslims are free to worship. The theology endorses jihad. Some Muslims feel obligated to practice what is preached. Eventually, something has to give. |
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We have had the snipers in D.C., a shooting at the El Al counter in LA, a shooting at a Jewish center in Seattle, a driving assault at Duke. The parties who were killing and assaulting in all those cases were Muslim. It appears the shooter in Utah may also be Muslim.
Is that relevant? Yeah, they all appear to being following a lone wolf pattern, but it is still relevant (especially since some of them said religion and middle east poltics were a motivating factor). I am not going to draw much beyond that at this point (there are other factors too), but it is a legitmate reason to be concerned. |
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Thousands of depressed, hopeless Americans commit suicide every year. It is a trajedy. Often the individual is reaching out for help or simply wants to escape his/her problems.
With Muslims, I can see why it would be different. If I'm not mistaken, a Muslim who is killed while acting as a jihadist has a place in heaven. One who commits suicide does not. If hundreds of depressed Muslims, who otherwise might commit suicide, look for an escape to their problems, what better alternative exists than to kill infidels before leaving the planet? That way, their spot in heaven is guaranteed. I don't think anyone heard the boy shout "Allahu Akbar" - or whatever the term is - but it seems probable that was the mindset. |
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Mormons have never, as a group or as individuals, called for the killing of those who are not Mormons, and have never instigated terrorist acts against Americans(Mountain Meadows excepted).
Any attempted analogy between Mormons and Muslims is disingenous at best. |
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Nowhere did I say that either Hillary or Obama are inspired or competant in national security. I won't vote for either of them, even if McCain is the Republican nominee. I simply believe, regardless of their pandering to the left, they will be forced to deal with the realities of the situation if they win, and neither is without a conscience. I could be wrong, but I'm slow to demonize political opponents.
I'm not comfortable with the "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" philosophy. I was when I was a young man. Then I made a few mistakes, matured, and stop believing in the infallibility of my own opinion. I prefer to sort them out before killing them now. |
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As James Lileks has stated on Hugh's past shows, those opposed to the Bush administration charge that he has never "connected the dots" and use that straw man to blame him for the attacks on 9-11 (and hopefully I don't offend Whatev's delicate constitution by pointing out that the 9-11 perpetrators were Muslims). However, again parroting Lileks, this same "blame Bush" crowd refused to allow him to "collect the dots". This vile act in Utah yesterday is yet another case in point. Allow us to examine if this man with a Muslim name had motivation that fits into a wider pattern of fulfilling bin Laden's fatwa. Allow us to collect the dots. Such is not paranoid nor delusional. Conversely, such is prudent and responsible in order to connect the dots.
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The Desert Morning News, Salt Lake City, reported this morning that Talovic, who was born in Bosnia and emigrated to Utah in 1998 with his parents, was a muslim. To me, this is a fairly clear indication that he engaged in his own personal jihad, without fear of being killed himself. Witnesses said he had a calm, determined look on his face as he engaged in shooting whomever he came across. The shooting began as he exited his car, killing a 52 year-old father and seriously wounding the father's 16 year-old son, who just happened to be there. He entered the Trolley Square Mall, shooting each as he saw them. The shooting began at 6:44 pm and Talovic was killed by police at 6:50 pm.
I don't know who first coined the term Sudden Jihad Syndrome, but I think it a real phenomenon and one that adds to the general risk imposed on the populace at large. Recall LA, North Carolina, Seattle, DC, even as far back as the Muslim who began shooting commuters at random in traffic outside the CIA location.
It is yet another facet of Islam that belies the politically correct view of diversity and Islam The Religion Of Peace. |
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Toad:
"But you will get an era of competence."
Why, in your mind, would Democrats be inherently more "competent" than Republicans? Is there something genetic that makes Democrats smarter, or better administrators?
Or is there something inherent in the Democratic ideology that attracts inherently more competent people? (Actually, you could make a reasonable argument for that. It's possible that in a group of people whose philosophy is pro-business and pro-limited government, the best minds will not be drawn to government service, but to entrepreneurship, etc.)
On the other hand, I suspect that the pool of potential candidates in both parties is large enough that, on balance, the average IQ and administrative-competence factors are roughly equal. That's why "it's not about ideology -- it's about competence" is a false concept. It's unlikely that either party has a decisive "competence" advantage. The deciding factor will always be the general principles that guide each party. |
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Whatev:
I agree it would be foolish to jump to the conclusion that the SLC shooter MUST be motivated by jihadist idology, solely because he's a Muslim. Eighteen-year-olds can shoot up public places for a lot of reasons.
However, I think it's unreasonable to rule out completely, as you appear to be doing, the possibility that jihadist ideology played a role here. Your analogy about Ted Haggard falls flat. Nobody is saying that because the SLC shooter MIGHT have been motivated by his Muslim background, all Muslims are potential murderers. They're saying, simply, that THIS PARTICULAR MUSLIM may have been driven, at least in part, to kill because of his religion.
A few years back, there were some horrendous murders in Utah by some fundamentalist Mormons, the Lafferty brothers. When those crimes were done, it was entirely reasonable to speculate that fundamentalist Mormon culture may have played a part in motivating them -- as, in fact, it was later proven to have done. But of course, that speculation was not tantamount (as you suggest) to a speculation that all Mormons were murderers.
Logic, brother, logic. |
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ProudDuck cannot be taken seriously absent evidence of an al-Qaida connection. Given the number of times right-wingers, including the Shrub administration, have baselessly claimed "jihadi" in our midst, I consider the probability of that very, very low.
Four high-profile murderers in five years doesn't make American Muslims unusually violent- in the last five years, about 80,000 Americans were murdered, and only a very tiny fraction by Muslims. (And none by "jihadis.")
As for Democratic competence, it's hard to be competent in running the government if you don't believe government can be a force for good, as most GOoPers don't. Democrats do, and their track record reflects this.
Frankly, you people just like to be scared. You can't function without enemies whose awe-inspiring might requires you to surrender your mental faculties to Big Daddy, whoever he might be. You can't handle the world as it exists. |
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"absent evidence of an al-Qaida connection"
Who said anything about al-Qaeda? And where did I say anything about American Muslims being unusually violent? All I said was that it was possible that this particular Muslim might have been motivated, at least in part, by radical Muslim ideology. Full stop. That says nothing about al-Qaeda, and nothing about the propensities of any other Muslim.
"Frankly, you people just like to be scared. You can't function without enemies whose awe-inspiring might requires you to surrender your mental faculties to Big Daddy, whoever he might be. You can't handle the world as it exists."
Keep living in your bubble, dude. |
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