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This is something that truely speaks loudly about character. It seems that there are so many people who protest the war only to defend killing the innocent. |
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...I sincerely question the philosophy of people who attempt to equate abortion with war.
God help us all. |
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is that everyone who supports abortion with no limits........that their parents had felt the same way!!! |
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You guys will stoop to new lows every day, won't you?
The truth is, most Americans do NOT want to take away a woman's right to choose. They also do NOT like abortions, but feel the issue SHOULD be left a private matter for the woman involved - not UNLIKE Palin choosing to keep her medical records a curious secret (what is she hiding, anyway?).
It IS quite silly how you like to pick and choose who and what is open to public scrutiny. But the gutless use of an unborn fetus to sell your point is not working, my friends. |
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Too bad his parents didn't believe in abortion. |
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More pitiful then usual you loony toon. That baby is not a choice. It is a living human being. If you think it is okay to dismember that baby and throw the pieces away on the whim of the mother then you are a piece of dogcrap. |
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would you rather we had used pictures of the innocent human babies after they had been chopped up or killed in a saline bath? Would that have made you feel better about your choice to support their murders? |
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Obama's mother giving birth to Obama was not the problem. Her and his father deserting him as a child may have contributed to his current state of being. We will never know for sure what circumstance or set of circumstances combined to give us the Junior we have today. |
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You are right that most Americans don't want all abortions outlawed, but that's not really what's in question. Obama supports practices that are abhorrent to the vast majority of Americans: partial birth abortion and ensuring that women undergoing late term abortions get what they wanted - a dead baby, even if said child somehow survives the procedure.
The born alive act was unanimously passed by the Senate. The partial birth ban was passed with a bipartisan majority. This isn't about the morning after pill, or saving a woman's life. It is about basic human decency! |
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Where are Obama's medical records? Where are his college records and thesis? Where is his real birth certificate? Oh yeah, I just remembered, he's on his way to Hawaii to have one made up at the local Kinkos.
As a woman (if I can call you that), you are pathetic if you think that its OK to kill a baby. Yes, I said baby, not fetus, not embryo...BABY. That picture is of a real living, breathing human being, that has just as much right to live as you do. It has no voice of its own right now, so we conservatives must do the speaking and defending for her.
I bet you are one of those that protest the war, but yet you advocate for the killing of the most innocent of all, babies.
You and your pro-choice stance are seriosly sick and derranged.
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Whoa, you sure are taking a beating. Must be more fun for you on the Obama blogs! My wife is a Labor and Delivery nurse. Her hospital does not perform procedures like these, but she has seen so many women come in and deliver these tiny humans prematurely. They try to breathe. They move. Their hearts beat - too bad yours doesn't. |
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What or if you hold any religious views. It isn't important. Most people, I think, do believe in a judgment day. Can we really believe these tiny creatures are not important enough to live and that we won't have to answer for what we've done? What happened to our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Life and love are synonymous. Death and evil are, too. Choose life. Choose love. And choose the truth. |
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the truth is Nancy, you are an idiot. And i just showed the pic to my wife who at age 40 is expecting our first kido, a daughter. And will give birth around the end of Jan. She is now about 26 weeks along. May God be praised. Thank you Lord Jesus who is God the Son. |
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I'm going to assume you didn't bother to read the letter and look at the photograph. If you did, I feel sorry for you that you could actually read the letter from Edward Cardinal Eagan, look at the photograph and then write what you did. This letter rises about individual religions and political leverage. Don't you get it? It speaks to the inhumanity of murdering innocent babies, Nancy...if you don't have the ability to see that, I just very much pity you. |
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Can someone please explain to me what the purpose of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act is? After a child is born and breaths, it is considered a citizen of the United States. Killing a breathing baby is (and always has been) murder. How does this act change anything? It had language which called into question ESTABLISHED LEGAL PRECEDENT so Obama, a constitutional lawyer, proposed an alternative. His alternative was shot down so Obama did not support the act TO MAKE A POINT THAT LEGISLATION SHOULDN'T IMPOSE ON ROE V. WADE. Obama, like anyone else with a brain, knew that State and Federal law prohibited the murder of a new born baby. So what is the big deal? |
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please take another long look at that picture.
Look into your heart, picture your Mother and your Father holding you as a newborn, looking at you, gazing upon you as a miracle of life that is capable of bringing unconditional love and inconceivable joy into this crazy world.
I hope this post will give you a chance to think deeply again about your stance on abortion.
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I JUST CAN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION WITH UM...ER...ANY DEGREE OF........SPECIFICITY IT'S......SO......UH.......................................................................................................................................ABOVE MY PAYGRADE! |
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go join the dogcrap pile with nancy. thank you. |
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the law before it was changed allowed the abortionist (the doctor who incompetently allowed the infant to live) to decide if the child was viable. The change was to have the abortionist's decision reviewed by a second doctor. Some people believe(d) the abortionist was not an objective viewer of the living child.
Obama made it clear that protecting Roe was more important than protecting the little citizens.
Do you understand now? |
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job it the abortionist screws up. Cold man, real cold.
Obama worth millions, but can not spare his brother a dime. Cold man, real cold. |
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My baby neice was delivered 3 months premature do to her mother developing preeclampsia- high blood pressure- and having a seizure. she was on the respirator for 1 day and so far has been breathing on her own since. She is the most beatiful baby I have ever seen and only the size of my brother's hand when she was born. Life is beautiful- not a punishment. I Praise God for little Brianna. |
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Please don't suggest that I am "for" abortion. That is the single most insulting thing about the RW and their anti-choice views - you try to cast pro-choice advocates as pro-abortion, and you couldn't be more wrong. This is NOT an issue regarding abortion rights, but an issue regarding a woman's right to do choose what she must do concerning her body and the life she is carrying. There are MANY mitigating factors behind a woman's choice to end a pregnancy - what you do when you lord over her decision is you cancel out her right to her privacy and her ability to choose for herself. It is more about controlling women than it is about bringing new life into the world.
Consider this if you don't believe me: What does the "pro-life" community do for those babies that ARE brought into a hostile environment? Do you advocate for child care, help for the mother or aid to the family? NO. Instead, the mother is vilified for giving birth and not "controlling her impulses". Once that child is born, the onus then is cast on the mother for bringing that baby into the world and looking for a hand up once the child is there. No one in your community CARES anymore about that child, now do they?
Palin believes a woman who has been brutally raped or in dire health should STILL be forced to give birth. Yet, this is a woman who is soooooo private about her own medical background that we can't properlly vet her health the way Obama and Biden were expected to. Why is "privacy" such a subjective issue, victim to selective nitpicking?
The day you can tell me what you and your pro-lifers do for those babies once they are born is the day I might consider your lovely sentiments regarding the unborn fetus. |
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There are many many couples who are ready and willing to adopt newborn babies. Unfortunately many don't because too many are aborted. It's not just a choice between abortion or keeping an unwanted child and suffering along as a single parent. These babies are wanted. If birth mothers are unable or unwilling to raise them, placing a child for adoption is a wonderful gift they can give both their child and the adoptive parents.
And before you try to peg me as all talk/no action - my wife and I have been fortunate enough to adopt two children. |
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How often do I hear about people who will fight for the rights of animals, applaud those who are being charged with being abusive to animals, but then they vote and support someone who has a legislative record of voting to end a baby's life even when that child survives an abortion attempt. There is something wrong with our culture when the rights of animals are held higher than the rights of human being.. I am disturbed by the path our nation is going in many areas, but this is the worst.... |
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I'm sure there is nothing I can say to change your attitude. Why try? You have it all figured out.
Those babies are such a nusience anyway.
You are cold.
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As a battlescarred prolifer, I have heard that canard about pro lifers not caring enough about the born babies, only about the pre born. Not about the women who are in these pregnancy situations..another canard.
I've heard these LIES since I began becomeing active in Nov. 1972, before the black robed vultures on the Supreme Court allowed the Roe v. Wade lie to deny life and liberty to the least of our citizens.
I AM the adoptive mother of a now 40 yr. old son, birth mother to another 5. My adopted son
happens to be bi racial..and has more African
blood in his veins than your soul less god who bears only about 7%, the rest being Arab and white. While growing up he had emotional and
learning difficulties but has finally started to
redeem his mis spent life now as an entrepenuer.
I am not alone among pro lifers that have adopted or fostered unwanted children so put that LIe to rest. Nor am I alone in supporting
the Women Exploited by Abortion..people who are left to fall through the cracks because it wouldn't do to expose the dark underside of choice now would it? It wouldn't be politically or financially wise.
Murder is murder, you can't dress it up with euphemism like 'choice', we all saw what the
baby killers in the DemonRat party think of 'choice' when someone like SARAH chooses life for what they consider less than perfect and not
worthy of a full life. |
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you just keep on trying to justify deliberately killing innocent human babies. That anger you are feeling should be directed at yourself for falling for such garbage. |
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Since That One's extremely far Left voting record & abortion policies are the most cold & calulating towards the most innocent and defenseless of human lives among us.. What would he do to the rest of us when the going gets tougher.. when his inane socialist economic policies fail? Who would be next in line as most dispenable? |
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Birthright is an organization that offers counseling and material aid to women who find themselves pregnant and in a difficult situation whether it be financially, emotionally or physically.
Birthright was founded as a response to Roe v Wade.
Try keeping your lies, misinformation and ignorance to yourself Nancy. |
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You are the single most disgusting thing on TH. Along with jeramydogcrap.
How is the dogcrap pile? |
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While I applaud your generous spirit with the two adopted children, where do you stand on aid to the mothers who keep the children they bear? Where do you stand on the health care issues that McCain voted against that would provide healthcare for EVERY child?
Adopting children is a great gift. Seriously. But it affects the lives of two, in your case, kids. There are thousands more who need aid and don't get it because of the GOP stance on women's issues.
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To anyone who justifies the argument that a woman's right to an abortion is a privacy issue, please see the card check legislation that will strip laborers of the right to a "private" vote. You can't have it both ways! The pandering and hypocrisy of the Democratic Party is limitless. |
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Watch out, you're hate is showing. |
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I see you are too much a coward to actually discuss issues. Why won't you answer my question? Why don't you grow a backbone (or some reproductive anatomy)?? |
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Obama, A man without convictions, he goes with the flow of the wind in his Liberal Party. He will never speak the truth about abortion, he will not take the chance of losing something that is more important than LIFE Itself to him.
Sad
It is better to die for conviction than to live with a compromise.
Sarah has conviction she values LIFE
Quite a contrast between the 2 people huh?
I will vote for Mccain/Palin Pro Life
I will not vote Obama/Biden who do not consider LIFE important. |
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There's nothing to say to Nancy that hasn't already been said, but can anyone honestly say that if their mother had chosen to abort them as an unborn infant, it would have simply been her right to privacy and make a choice about her own body, end of story? That choice would have cost you everything. Your life would have been extinguished at the instant that your mother didn't feel like having you ... maybe it would be too embarrassing and she wanted to go to her high school prom without looking all fat. But your mother didn't choose to kill you. YOU got to live. YOU got to make your own choices in life. People who abort their babies are taking away any possible choice from that baby. Don't they have a right to choose too? Don't they have a right to life? As much as I can be lulled into a stupor by Obama's soothing voice, telling us everything is going to be alright, as soon as I remember his positions on abortion, it's like I awaken from a nightmare and the illuminati is standing at my door. |
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That's an odd take on what I said. Actually, the thing I find most troubling is that while I am focusing on the CHILD who is born, you can't seem to get past the fetus -and yet, you call ME cold.
Why not address the issue of the child, Dave? Why not tell me what you advocate for that child once he/she is born and is in need of good care? While it seems fine by you and your fellow anti-choicers to determine what a woman should do in her personal life, you strike me as also willing to brush your hands of responsibility once you've forced that woman to do as you insist. This is truly only about control over women when all is said and done, which is why it will NEVER be an issue that works for you guys. Until you can provide meaningful care to the children born and in need, you have no real footing in this argument.
Once again, pro-choice is not pro-abortion. Clinton had abortion numbers at their lowest while in office BECAUSE he advocated education and protection - something I'm guessing Bristol Palin could've used. Outlawing abortion only serves to control a woman's choice, while forcing desperate women to seek poor abortion solutions. It's a lose/lose situation.
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Nancy said: “This is NOT an issue regarding abortion rights, but an issue regarding a woman's right to do choose what she must do concerning her body and the LIFE she is carrying.”
In your own words and written in your heart you know it is a LIFE in the womb. A woman who chooses not to protect and nurture the child in her womb is TAKING an innocent life. It's harsh to say it that way because I know several wonderful women who made that choice at one time because of fears (fears about how having a baby at that time in their life would change all of their plans, or fears about what people would think of her for having a baby out of wedlock or for having a bi-racial baby, and fears such as that), but what's true is true. Choice is the carrying out of a death sentence imposed on an innocent LIFE. |
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I don't see why a OB/GYN (someone who SPECIALIZES in babies) would need a consult to determine whether or not a baby is alive. Who would this second doctor be? Another OB/GYN??... does he/she have to be anti-abortion or be selected by a group with anti-abortion ambitions? We trust doctors every day to make life and death decisions. What reason do we have to assume that Ob/Gyns that perform abortions are any more likely to break their Hippocratic oaths than the back up doctors that you claim should oversee the procedures? This act would imply that there is something ethically suspect about doctors who perform abortions such that they need a babysitter. Unfortunately (for you), the supreme court has found that abortions are not ethically incongruous with U.S. Law, but banning them is. So legally, there should be no reason to question the medical judgment of a doctor who performs abortions any more than there is reason to question the judgment of EVERY OTHER MEDICAL DECISION. If you think that all medical decisions should have oversight, we are going to need quite a few more doctors. |
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nancydogcrap: I, indeed, have a seething hatred for someone who would for a second condone the dismembering of or the sucking out of the brains of a baby. Glad you noticed that.
jeramydogcrap: the Illinois had zero to do with abortion and the fact of the matter is is that living babiew WERE being dumped into garbage cans to die. Of course, the MD just saw them as 'medical waste'. But who cares about medical waste even if it is a living human being, hmmm? |
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What about a 12 year old girl who is raped by her father, brother or uncle? |
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It comes down to faith. If one believes in God, they know that their body is God's. To decide of one's own accord to kill a baby that God placed in a woman for reasons beyond her or our understanding, good or bad, is playing God, plain and simple.
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Nancy Says :Where do you stand on the health care issues that McCain voted against that would provide healthcare for EVERY child?
Nancy where are those irresponsible fathers? Why can't the mother work?
She is capable of working, getting an education, it happens everyday!
Should Taxpayers be responsible for irresponsibility?
Shouldn't parents take on the load?
Why Government?
Too much government now!
I know many young women that have children raising them on their own, working, going to school!
Why would you want the government to make this country lazier than it is already.
That is Obama's idea! Spread the Wealth, keep the lazy, lazy, Free education, for what? Earn a Friggen Living, take control of your own Life!
Nancy read the statistics, women are having abortions more often as birth control!
Why should anybody be responsible for what the chose to do?
A personal Matter?
Why does a personal matter of abortion become the responsibility of taxpayers?
They want their rights but they want others to pay for it?
Makes sense huh?
Vote Mccain/Palin!
Life is Precious!
So Nancy when you become a non-viable adult what should we do with you? |
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"jeramydogcrap: the Illinois had zero to do with abortion and the fact of the matter is is that living babiew WERE being dumped into garbage cans to die. Of course, the MD just saw them as 'medical waste'. But who cares about medical waste even if it is a living human being, hmmm?" Let's the evidence!! Put up or shut up! |
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Maybe someone should have been protecting the 12 year old. Maybe they don't need to compound a traumatic event with another. She's going to need couseling regardless. Make part of the counseling the path of life, not death. She doesn't have to keep the baby after birth.
What you don't seem to get is that death is not the only answer. |
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"Please don't suggest that I am "for" abortion. That is the single most insulting thing about the RW and their anti-choice views - you try to cast pro-choice advocates as pro-abortion, and you couldn't be more wrong. This is NOT an issue regarding abortion rights, but an issue regarding a woman's right to do choose what she must do concerning her body and the life she is carrying."
*reads again*
"and the life she is carrying."
Well that's where we disagree, because I don't think that anyone has the right to make a life-or-death choice over another innocent human being -- only those who make that right forfeit through murder. |
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" Let's the evidence!!" I meant "Let's see the evidence" |
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I hear you. I understand where you're coming from because I would not "choose" to take that LIFE either, if it were a simple matter of choosing life over abortion. But the reality here is that I can in no way inject my own personal feelings onto a woman who is making that choice based on mitigating circumstances beyond her control. Do you GET that? Does that resonate with you?
Pro-lifers like to make this about women behaving badly, when in fact the choice of abortion is a hard and troubling one for those involved. I STILL want to understand why you guys focus ALL your attention on the fetus and care little about the life of that child once they are born. Why IS that? It is incongruous to me the venomous outpouring that the right has towards mothers who are unable to care for their children, and yet they absolutely insist that life be allowed to enter the world.
I actually CARE about that life both in and out of the womb. What about you, Sally? What are your views on child care legislation that your party dismisses out of hand? What about the failed legislation on child healthcare for every child, and not just the lucky ones?
You can spin around and around the fetus issue, but until you properly address the CHILD issue, your stance is merely one of controlling a woman's right. Period. |
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Considering your name, are you familiar with the quote: Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? I personally have a problem with those who wrap themselves in patriotism right now.
But I digress.....I am betting that you are all for bombing Iraqi babies into oblivion as part of our failed war in Iraq, aren't you? I ask this because it is my belief that if you can claim that I am pro-abortion and the taking of life as a simple black and white issue, than I am free to assume that your stance on the war means babies and children are merely collateral damage in our effort to keep you safe.
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There is an American Psychological Association consensus that forcing a rape victim to give birth to their attacker's child can do irreparable harm to that girl beyond the psychological trauma of the original attack, even more so for a child. Often times, these children never get over it. Why does your crusade for children only protect ones who haven't been born? |
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See, you illustrate my point perfectly. It is NOT about the fetus, but about controlling those who get pregnant, and forcing them to live up to your idea of "responsibility". PUNISHMENT. Where does the child factor in? Certainly not in your lack of compassion for their lot once they are born. |
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jeramyDogcrap : ‘What reason do we have to assume that Ob/Gyns that perform abortions are any more likely to break their Hippocratic oaths than the back up doctors that you claim should oversee the procedures?’
Me: We have sworn a statement that at least one abortionist made it a practice to let babies who survived the abortion die.
jeramyDogdcrp: ‘This act would imply that there is something ethically suspect about doctors who perform abortions such that they need a babysitter.’
Me; You got it! MDs who perform elective late term abortions are ethically suspect.
jeramyDogcrap: ‘So legally, there should be no reason to question the medical judgment of a doctor who performs abortions any more than there is reason to question the judgment of EVERY OTHER MEDICAL DECISION.’
Me: See the ethically suspect and the sworn statement comments.
jeramyDogcrap: ‘If you think that all medical decisions should have oversight, we are going to need quite a few more doctors.’
Me: Most elective procedures are done with oversight. How do I know this? It’s my job to do that very thing.
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See Freddoso's book 'The Case Against Barrack Obama'. Also google the damned issue, it's not like its a big secret or something. |
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How interesting, because I am a surgeon and no law compels me to have someone look over my shoulder. As for your stance on the ethics of abortion. You are in the minority in a democratic republic which means that you can do little more than complain. Roe v. Wade stands, if you don't like the laws of my country, find another. |
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Nancy you were talking about who is gonna take care of those women!
I detest Abortion.
It is infanticide!
Same thing Hitler did isn't it?
The what you call a fetus is a HUMAN BEING that deserves to LIVE get it!
You have become judge and jury of who lives and who dies by deciding to kill a HUMAN BEING!
I will speak for the unborn that doesn't have a voice.
I will not defend a woman who is completely capable of making a choice to NOT GET PREGNANT
That goes for Sarahs Daughter She made the choice to keep her child and she will live with it and take care of that baby. I don't feel we are responsible to take care of her child either.
You won't see her begging for the government to take care of her and her child. She will take care of that child.
She accepted responsibility for her ACTIONS! |
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I hear Iran abhors homosexuality and abortion, you would fit right in. |
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He believes the taxpayer should fund it!!!! |
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Declaration of Independence. Substitute born for created. How the left reads the Declaration's most moving and revolutionary words.
All men are born (not created equal) equal.
Forgive me if I think America was founded using the word created and not the word born. That is why Obama is unAmerican. He does not respect the document upon which this country was founded. It is hard to get more unAmerican than that. |
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I understand the law and I know that at the moment I can do more than complain about Roe v Wade. Why should I move because I don't like some of the unethical laws which we have. If Roe v Wade got overturned would you leave this country?
Actually you do have someone looking over your shoulder, after a fashion. I'm an RN and I do utilization review for insurances. As a surgeon you know that almost all elective procedures paid for by an insurance company have to be reviewed for preauthorization. This is done as the surgeon performing the procedure has a vested interest in doin as many procedures as possible. This presents a conflict of interest. I submit to you that an abortionist doing a late term abortion has a vested interest in making sure that the baby dies because a live, preterm baby is a b@tch to take care of and takes up a whole lot of time. So yes, a second MD should be there.
And if you truely are a surgeon you posts both in this thread and others simply reinforce what I learned while working at Yale, any fool can be an MD. |
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If our country and culture considers humans to be created, not born, why then do we have birthdays (rather than creation days)? Why wouldn't we count our age from the day of our conception rather than birth? It would seem that if our fore fathers believed that conception was when life began, we wouldn't today be celebrating their birthdays. They had the foresight to realize that the only tangible and rational boundary for the beginning of life is a baby's expulsion from the womb. |
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Just keep telling yourself, whatever you have to, if that's what it takes, for you to sleep at night. |
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Nancy,
A child is not "PUNISHMENT". In fact, a child is a blessing. You are obviously convicted toward your position but you shouldn't use the punishment term in any context. Hopefully on November 4, the good people of Pennsylvania will make that perferctly clear.
With respect to an unwanted pregnancy, there is likely no greater example of the consequence of our actions than pregancy. I have seen that 90% of all abortions are essentially nothing more than birth control. That is shameful. The loss of accountability in our society is staggering.
And, by the way, the right to choose begins and ends with abstinence.
Jeremy,
A living/breathing human being outside the womb born in the US is an American citizen, regardless of likelihood to live. Obama's most indicting remark on the subject was that he wouldn't want the aborting mother to feel remorseful over her decision to abort. I believe he also didn't want the doctor to be subject to a malpractice claim.
As a surgeon, I can understand how you wouldn't want anyone looking over your shoulder but, as a doctor, I thought those in your profession were sworn to do everything possible to preserve the life of a patient. If the aborting mother is the abortionist's patient, maybe newborn baby might just need an advocate of its own. |
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Why do you bring up gays? I haven't said a word about them here and in other threads I have made it clear that I have no problmes with gays or even civil unions but draw the line at same-sex marriage. Try again.
I have no need to move to a Muslim country. Christianity as a whole is anti-abortion and we don't cut people's heads off, unlike Muslims and abortionists. |
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1) I am a neurosurgeon so I must confess that I do not really handle elective surgeries. It is important to note that not all abortions are elective and a large majority of people who do get elective abortions do not go through insurance... so what you are suggesting is oversight that transcends the circumstances of the abortion. 2) As you already know, most medical professionals detest the interjection of insurance bureaucracy into medical decisions so it confuses me that you would attempt to use insurance as an ideal model for responsible oversight. 3) Additionally, in most hospitals, a pre-term baby is placed in a special ward with staff specifically trained in dealing with the hazards of an early birth. The impetus rarely falls on the shoulders of the abortion doctor to care for pre-term babies.
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... and upon death we return to God, why should abortion be a bad thing, since the baby is being returned to the loving arms of Jesus? The aborted person never knows the pain & suffering associated with everyday life, and will, at most, feel his/her only torment at the moment of abortion, and then join with Christ. Furthermore, there is no possibility that the child will not go to heaven, b/c it has not had the opportunity to sin. Isn't that what we all want? |
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'They had the foresight to realize that the only tangible and rational boundary for the beginning of life is a baby's expulsion from the womb.'
Right, like when a baby survives a late term abotion. This is why abortionists like partial birth abortions so that at least some of the baby is still in the birth canal and thereby isn't REALLY a person, it isn't REALLY alive. |
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"A living/breathing human being outside the womb born in the US is an American citizen, regardless of likelihood to live" I couldn't agree more. If a baby takes their first breath, they are protected with the same rights as every other American citizen. The fetuses we are talking about haven't taken their first breath. They will require life support for the rest of their short lives. Their eyes will never open, their lips will never move. They do not show conscious brain activity and will never form a memory. To damn this fetus to a painful and meaningless existence to mitigate a sense of Christian guilt is far more immoral than any abortion.
screwtape, I thought I remember you making some anti-gay comments in another forum. Apologies for the misunderstanding. |
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I brought up the pre-auth subject to explain that MDs are monitored due to conflict of interest. We are talking a lot of money here as you well know. A few extra gastric-bandings will go a long way to pay for a Porsche.
I am not championing the bureaucracy. I have worked both side of the aisle and I am also a consumer and the whole thing is a nightmare. In some defense of my job we never try to second guess a surgeon on an urgent/emergent procedure nor what he does while doing the procedure (like going from a scope to an open procedure), that would incredibly foolish.
My concern is with the elective abortions that are not done very soon after conception. I don't think the morning after pill should be prohibited. Elective late term abortions that are nothing more than murder.
I have to go good day to you. I do apologize for my behavior but this is one of those issues that I feel so very strongly about. |
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Dan...
Your words were beautiful! Thank you! |
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You have brought up a really important point in the abortion debate; a person's beliefs about life and death often determine their stance on abortion.
Can you see what would happen if you carried your philosophy to it logical end? We would kill all babies before they were born, because that would be the best thing for them. |
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There are many, many pro-life individuals and organizations who help mothers and babies in difficult situations. I just Googled "crisis pregnancy help" and here is one of the results: http://www.priestsforlife.org/crisis.html |
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I always find it amazing how those who are for abortion would want me put in jail if I destroyed an Eagle egg. We live in a very cold world. Obama is about as cold a person as it gets. |
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I have to question why Obama would support a policy that is so racist. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, advocated abortion as a way to reduce the number of poor blacks in America.
Anyone who supports abortion supports racism. Although only six percent of the American population is black women, they have 36 percent of the abortions. Again, abortion is racist.
Leading feminist Camille Paglia recently said that she knew that abortion was murder. Apparently she doesn't care. It's all about the "rights" of the woman.
What all of you need to understand is that those who support abortion don't care that it's a human being that is being murdered. If they cared, there's no way they could support it.
I read today that Christians are split down the middle between Obama and McCain. Well, it's like the bumper sticker that said: Catholic. Pro Choice. Pick one.
I say Christian. Obama. Pick one because you can't be both. The fact that Americans have given any credence at all to this racist, pro abortion, I'm too good to be in the military because I might ruin my manicure whiner says a lot about the sorry state of affairs in America.
Jinger Jarrett
US Army vet and proud of it |
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What about men that want to keep their baby when the woman wants to abort the baby?
If the woman chooses to gives birth then the Father is responsible for the financial upbringing of the child. Does the Father have a say in all this?
Does a man have a choice? The baby is his own flesh and blood too. It is not just a woman's "choice to to with her body what she wants" when a Father desires to see his child born.
Food for thought people. |
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I posted this yesterday. But it is still true today.
I am not Catholic. In fact I have no religion. I said this before. I haven't been to church in forty years.
But I gotta wonder how any pro abortion Catholic would have the gall to enter church. I would think this would be the most sacred belief in the church. Thou shall not kill an innocent child. How could there be any question ?
But Obama takes this genocide to new heights. He has no limits. And if you're Catholic and voting for Obama you are just as guilty. You are condoning this genocide. You probably need to drop the pretense of being Catholic and just join the Obama Cult. Worship whatever ? But you've burnt your bridges with God.
I said I have no church but that doesn't mean I don't believe. I also believe there will be a judgement day.
When you stand before your maker you will have some explaining to do.
Call me judgemental and you would be right. Because if you can't judge someone who condones killing innocent babies and then have the nerve to walk into a house of God. Then we have all sunk to the depths of hell.
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I am not a rightwing religious zealot. But the name I use on this blog holds true. I am a gardener.
Everyday I am amazed at the complexity of this planet. The miracles are all around us. My garden, trees and the hummingbirds on my deck. In Chicago.
My work takes me 60 miles outside this city in an area where nature abounds. Outside my office window is a tallgrass prairie, unbelievable colors. I see deer right at my window. wild pheasants, egrets, Canadian geese and those darn beaver building dams in the stream and fish of every kind. It is all quite magnificent.
Seeing all this everyday. I have no doubt there is a master planner. I work with biologist and I don't know one non-believer.
But God's greatest miracle is the gift of life. It is why we are here. If we continue to chose to kill gods children I pity the callous nation we have become.
Again, I am not a religious person and I know there are many things wrong with organized religion. That is why I choose not to attend church. But this issue is beyond religion. It is the killing of innocent children.
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1. Slaves belonged to their masters/owners, that we all know.
2. Masters could do virtually anything to their property, the slaves, including murdering them if they wanted to.
3. If a mother has an abortion and it fails and the child is born alive the child is now a living breathing human being...and DOES NO LONGER "belong" to the mother in the form of an owned slave...
4. Since Obama says it's OK for the mother to then permit the termination of the baby's life, the baby must be a slave to the mother and her property, not a human being with rights.
ERGO, Obama supports Slavery since in his mind the baby still is the "PROPERTY" of the mother and the mother has the right to murder the baby.
I, for one, find this practice sickening!
I would think Obama of all people would understand the difference between slavery and a free person with rights.
If you disagree, PROVE to all of us that the mother can murder the baby and should not be charged with murder... |
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I went to a talk by a priest who said that the more accurate name for pro-choice is PRO-ABORTION because that is what one truly is when one supoorts the option of abortion. |
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The logical conclusion is that man has failed God. To quote John Doe: We are not what was intended. Regardless of whether you believe man was created 6000 years ago or evolved 2 million years ago out of Africa, mankind has failed, via sexism and racism and poverty and war, and perhaps the best thing for the species would be voluntary attrition. We, as a species, do not appear to WANT to create the utopia that is within our potential. Therefore, the elimination of the species seems to be the logical choice, and allow God to dictate whether to give our species a second chance, over another 6000 / 2M years. Maybe we'd get it right on the second try. Probably not.
This nation is on the cusp of electing a war hawk with decades of political experience and his jingoist, inarticulate sidekick, or an intelligent yet wholly inexperienced pro-choice supporter with a experienced but impulsive wingman. A Hobson's choice, if ever there was one. Abortion is just one of the items on the menu - will pro-/anti-choice voters be able to see beyond their own pet ideologies? I think not.
But, then again, I hold no hope and even less faith in the American voter, and believe that whites will vote for the member of the tribe, and, as the majority, will decide the election. I hope John McCain is elected in order to hasten the pending global Armageddon. But I also hope I'm wrong. |
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Until you have been raped at age 8 and was told by your own grandmother not to say anything to your mother, because she was to busy. She didn't need to be bother with such things.
Then grow up and have a child hold it in your arms and realize that it has to be the most amazing thing in the world. To see the little one open their eyes and look at you, even though you know she or he can't make out who you are. You really don't know what life is about. No one can tell a woman if it is wrong or right for her to have an abortion. That is a very personal experience for someone, with or without the father. She is the only one that will face her maker when the time comes. So quit being so high and mighty about who is wrong and who is right. Until you have walked in their shoes, you don't know. |
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Murder
Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
Now that we have established that abortion is not murder, maybe we can move on. Got that people? Calling “up”, down a gazillion times does not make it so. Illinois already had provisions of a “Born Alive” law in effect when Obama voted “against”. Here is a link to clarify any misconceptions you may have. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infantic ide.html
Remember that these laws are written by lawyers, from both sides. That means that a statement like “it contained similar” or “included the same wording…..” mean nothing unless you speak legalese and know what every comma, an “or” instead of an “and”, or any others slight changes of numerous other things can do to the law. He explains why he voted the way he did and I accept that.
To be continued.
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Saying Obama supports infanticide a gazillion times does not make it true. Saying abortion is racist a gazillion times does not make it true. The act of reporting statistics is not racist. All this being said, if a pro-life person chooses to not vote for a pro-choice person, that is perfectly understandable. This is America, you can vote for who ever you want to. American law does not define abortion as murder. I saw a poll that said 62% of all Americans oppose abortion. That same poll said that 60% of all Americans support a woman’s right to choose what path she will take, whether it be carry the child to full term or to have an abortion. Because there are so many reasons for both choices, someone has to choose. One person. I actually used to be sitting on the fence on this one. Some days one side, the next the other. Then came a woman named Terry down in Florida. The right to life people got our federal government involved in something so personal while trying to vilify an everyday guy. I leaped to the pro-choice side, I crowd surfed for days in a sea of love, the kind of love that made sure if me or any of my family was ever faced with a choice that had no good answer, that ONE person could make the choice that needed to be made. That is who pro-choice people are. They have either been there, know first hand someone who has, or have the vision to understand what it might be like. People who love life. And since no one has returned from the dead to say what God thinks about abortion (except Jesus and he didn’t mention the subject while he was back the second time), I’ll take my chances with God being all knowing. Lies mean nothing to Him. He knows me and you don’t. |
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