Friday, December 07, 2007
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A Religious Double-Standard?
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Posted by:
Matt Lewis at
11:00 AM
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"A lot of people come up here and thank Jesus for this award. I want you to know that no one had less to do with this award than Jesus". Whether you thought those comments were funny -- or blasphemous -- Kathy Griffin's remarks at the Creative Emmy Awards back in September touched off a firestorm of controversy.
Of course, she was mocking award recipients who thank Jesus when they win an award. (Those of us who find it ironic when gangster rappers, for example, thank Jesus for their People's Choice Awards, understood what Griffin was getting at.)
Still, as Catholic league president Bill Griffin wrote:
"It is a sure bet that if Griffin had said, 'Suck it, Muhammad,' there would have been a very different reaction."
Along those same lines, I'm noticing a disturbing trend emerging in politics. While Mitt Romney's Mormonism is politically unassailable, Mike Huckabee is beginning to be portrayed as a "kook" -- for referencing his faith.
Specifically, some pundits disapprove of Huckabee's inference to a student that his surge in the polls was due to prayer.
Many Evangelicals will view Huckabee's comments as an example of humility; he's not taking credit for his success, he's giving credit to the Almighty. Of course, not everyone sees it this way. Some speculate that Huckabee believes his success is "Divine providence."
Regardless, while it has been established that Mormons believe some things outside America's religious mainstream, it should also be noted that Evangelicals have some beliefs many Americans might find too charismatic for their taste.
For example, most Evangelicals believe the Almighty still performs miracles -- and intercedes in the affairs of men and women. That belief is well within the mainstream of Evangelical thought, but it might strike others as unusual. Huckabee's comments are representative of that theological belief.
Aside from that, from Lincoln's "House Divided" speech to Martin Luther King, Jr., there is a long tradition of of political leaders using Biblical references. (I'm certainly not comparing Mike Huckabee to either of these leaders, but stylistically, Huckabee is of this same rhetorical tradition.)
In any event, let's not have a double-standard. If criticizing Romney's religion is off-the-table, then Huckabee's faith should also be off-the-table.
Update: Dwayne Horner has some thoughts on the subject.
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I also agree that had Kathy Griffin made some comment about Mohammad or Allah the reaction would have been quite different.
Although about the only things Mohammad and Allah can take credit for are airplanes being shot down, building being blown up and suicide bombers. |
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Mitt is campaigning as a former governor who happens to be a Mormon. Huckabee is campaigning as a "Christian Leader" who happens to be a former governor.
Huckabee brought this upon himself by campaigning as the "Christian candidate."
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Huckabee is the one that keeps putting his religion on the table. That is his whole campaign strategy in Iowa. Rally the anti-Mormon bigots to vote for him. He's the "Christian Leader" as he touts in an ad. He's the one that when asked whether Mitt Romney's prayers would even get answered, ducked the question and then said he didn't care why they were supporting him he was just glad they were. He's such a snake. |
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There's a double standard.
The most Griffin has to fear from Christians is a few more people turning off her show or boycotting her appearances.
Had she said Mohammad, she'd have to worry about some deranged lunatic stabbing her and shooting her.
Huck's comments were a bit funny because it's a little premature. Better to wait until you actually win to attribute your sudden surge in popularity to God.
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It sickens me when ALL ALONG the media has been badgering Huckabee making reference to his experience as a Pastor INSTEAD of 10 1/2 years as a Governor.
When Huckabee has the gaul to short circuit all the questions by acknowledging himself to be a "Christian Leader"/ much akin to Romney's speech...instead of under the radar mumblings they hit it straight on...this is who we are..the only difference is Huckabee acknowledged this form the beginning and Romney waited until his poll numbers dropped ..he should have addressed it Along time ago. But whatever I like either one of them MUCH more than ANY of the others. |
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And so you are awesome as you bring up the valid point.
Mike promotes himself by his brand of faith, Mitt does not. Mitt has been dogged from the beginning by scurrilous accusations. He was forced to make the speech. |
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Mike Huckabee pardoned and commuted sentences of 669 convicted criminals. Many of them violent offenders. 11 of those crimianls were MURDERERS.
Mike Huckabee defends his record saying he is a Christian and believes in REDEMPTION.
That's a problem! |
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Way to go Matt, divide and conquer |
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Matt Lewis,
You have a staggering INABILITY to make symmetrical comparisons.
Mike Huckabee is running as a "Christian leader."
On the other hand, Mitt Romney is running as an American who happens to be Mormon.
Townhall commenter Jeff McAwesome said it best when he wrote;
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"Mitt is campaigning as a former governor who happens to be a Mormon. Huckabee is campaigning as a "Christian Leader" who happens to be a former governor."
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Romney isn't referencing HIS Mormon faith as part of his campaign platform---his detractors ARE the ones referencing his Mormon faith !
And they're saying that his "incorrect" theology disqualifies him from being trusted to make good political decisions.
Matt, you're just so disingenous as to characterize Romney's religion as "politically unassailable."
His religion HAS been assailed---that's WHY he felt compelled to make the speech.
Do you even read the Townhall comments threads to see what evangelicals have to say about Romney & his religion ?
Have you read Salon, or listened to CNN's Jack Cafferty ?
The great irony is that evangelicals want for themselves what they're not willing to extend to Romney.
Evangelicals don't want anyone to criticize their theology, yet at the same time they believe they have a license to publicly bust Romney for his Mormonism.
Evangelicals should be very careful about the slippery slope they are sliding down, because if mocking Romney's theology becomes acceptable among the mainstream, then so too will it be acceptable to publicly bust evangelicals. |
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While a person's personal theology certainly informs their morality and worldview, it affects DIFFERENT OUTCOMES in different people.
Therefore, on Election Day, rather than obsessing about a person's theology, we examine their voting record and political philosophy.
For example;
Teddy Kennedy & Rick Santorum are both Catholics.
They share the same theological beliefs, however, they don't share the same political beliefs.
Chuck Schumer & Dennis Prager are both Jews.
They share similar theological beliefs, however, they don't share the same political beliefs.
John Edwards & George W. Bush are both Protestant Christians.
They share pretty similar theological beliefs, however, they don't share the same political beliefs.
Harry Reid & Orrin Hatch are both Mormons.
They share the same theological beliefs, however, they don't share the same political beliefs.
As you can see from my examples, people of the same theology can arrive at different political beliefs.
And equally important is that people of DIFFERING THEOLOGY can arrive at SIMILAR political beliefs.
Thus, a premise which holds that because Mitt Romney believes in the Book of Mormon, he therefore cannot be trusted to make sound decisions in the political arena----well, such a thesis simply does not hold water.
By the way, the state of Utah---the state with the most Mormons---happens to vote more consistently Republican than other red states, such as the Bible Belt.
In the pluralist arena of American politics, the bottom line is how a politician governs or votes---it's not what breakfast cereal he eats, not what kind of novels he reads, and not which church service he attends. |
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One Hot writes:
"Romney isn't referencing HIS Mormon faith as part of his campaign platform---his detractors ARE the ones referencing his Mormon faith"
I'm not sure what you mean by "referencing his Mormon faith." Has anyone attacked his faith? I'm not talking about crazies on the radio, but actual candidates or major politicos.
I think the whole "woe-is-me, I'm a victim of persecution" narrative has been advanced mostly by the Romney campaign. He has repeatedly brought up his faith. He then appeals the conservatives to look past it. I think he is hoping for sympathy from the Religious Right, who are also attacked for their religiousity, to distract from his past as a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, anti-gun guy. Why else would he push-poll himself on Mormon issue?
Either way, I don't see how Huckabee honestly stating that he is a Christian whose faith is very important to him is NOT allowed, but Mitt gets to talk about his faith and it is fine. Double standard. |
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Mormons also believe in answers to prayers and in miracles. What we might disagree with is the idea that Huck himself openly implied. That he is predestined to win. That he is surging in the polls because it is God's will.
Huck has wrapped himself in his Religion because that is the cheapest fastest way to grab market share, as Fred bombs and Rudy slips.
It is a guerrilla marketing tactic not Divine intervention. He is deliberately using religion as a wedge issue because he knows from Pat Robertson's campaign that religion will get him 25 % of the vote.
If down playing his religion would get him more votes he would be doing that.
Huck made religion an issue because it helps him. I personally do not think God has much to do with it. |
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Brownback and Huck (supporters) have openly attacked Romney in IA all summer. The whisper campaigns continue (actually never stopped). Romney has also been attacked in SC in the past with direct mail. McCain supporters have also been active. |
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And/but/so,
You're the guy who has several times (in the past) accused Matt Lewis of being a Mitt Romney supporter, so I'm not surprised that you're a little confused, here, as well.
Mitt Romney has "mentioned" that he's a Mormon.
But he does not define himself as "a Mormon candidate."
He defines himself as "an American who happens to be Mormon."
He wants the electorate to not judge him for being a Mormon, rather, he wants the electorate to judge his leadership and policy stances.
On the other hand, Mike Huckabee defines himself as "the Christian conservative," and "a Christian leader" who just happened to be a Governor, as Jeff McAwesome wisely stated it.
In other words, Huckabee is nearly saying to GOP voters, "Vote for me in the primary because I'm a Christian !"
Many evangelicals are challenging Mitt's fitness to hold the Oval Office by contesting Mitt's theology.
Cisco Cotto wrote a column today where he observed,
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"Many evangelicals believe if he deviates so radically from conservative orthodoxy on doctrine then they can’t hand him the keys to the White House."
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By the way, And/but/so, you disingenously assert that Romney push-polled himself.
We're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're not entitled to establish our own facts.
Additionally, let's judge Romney by how he actually governed.
He governed Massachusetts as a pretty solid conservative. The fact is, he governed the state as a pro-lifer. |
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God is Sovereign., remeber that. And for thos of you who don't believe in God, that's your choice. Gov Huckabee is very straightforward about who he is and what he believes, and how it has all come togehter to make him the man that he is today. Romney's being a Mormom should not disqualify him from being our President. His record, his policies as Goverenor of a very liberal state need to be made public and discussed. However, what I really do not like is someone attempting to buy the presidency...how many good men ( or a woman if we can get someone like Thatcher...)will never attempt to enter the presidential race because of money?
Oh, by the way, God still does "move mountains" and miracles still occur....but if you don't believe in God you don't won't, obviously believe He IS Sovreign! |
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I could care less what religion Mitt Romney subscribes to. As a conservative what I do not like is his pro-life, pro-choice, pro-life (flip-flop-flip again) depending on what office or place he is running. He is just like Hillary Clinton who has to put a wet finger in the air to test the political winds or poll test it first. He is untrustworthy. Mitt and the media need to quit making mormonism being the reason people are voting for him just to cover up the real reason - he is a liberal and flip-flopper. He make John Kerry look like a bastion of consistency.
Huckabee has talked about religion because that is what all moderators ask him during the debates and interviews even though voters want to hear about taxes, economy, education, Iran etc. Also, his ad never said he was THE christian leader. It said he is a christian leader - big difference. I like the fact that he says what he is and is authentic.
Now that religion has been covered, maybe the moderators and reporters can start asking questions other than religeous ones. |
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[one hot minute on December 7, 2007 2:46 PM]"He governed Massachusetts as a pretty solid conservative. The fact is, he governed the state as a pro-lifer."
Details?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_w9pquznG4
Folger, Janet L. 14 March 2007. "Straw poll and the straw man"
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54681
When running for governor in 2002, Romney ran from the Massachusetts Citizens for Life (watch it on YouTube). They didn't care much for him, either. From the Boston Globe, March 25, 2005: "Marie Sturgis, legislative director of Massachusetts Citizens for Life, said she hasn't detected any change in Romney's stance. The group considers Romney to be an abortion-rights supporter, as do national anti-abortion groups such as the Family Research Council."
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His first major campaign ad in Iowa billed him in BOLD letters as "CHRISTIAN LEADER" and he said "My faith doesn't just influence me, it defines me"
Relatedly, when Rudy got the first response to "Do you believe every word of the Bible?" YouTube/CNN debate question Huck interrupted and joked "Do you need some help on this one, Rudy?"
He aggressively organized a coalition of 60 Iowa pastors that endorse his candidacy (pause for a second and imagine of Mitt announced that 60 Iowa Mormon Bishops were endorsing his candidacy . . . wouldn't play well, would it?)
Sounds like Huck's bringing in his religion front and center to me.
And then he complains to GQ that he gets "grilled" on his religion more than Romney.
See next comment for that. |
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Yep, Huck complained to GQ that he gets "grilled" on his religion more than Romney.
http://race42008.com/2007/12/06/i-am-speechless/
(posted by a Fred Thompson supporter . . . but he saw the deep irony):
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" GQ: So, generally, do you think it’s fair for people to take a candidate’s theological convictions into consideration at the polling place?
Huckabee:As long as everyone gets the same scrutiny. That’s what I don’t think is fair: I’ve been given an unusual level of scrutiny. No candidate gets quizzed to the depth that I do about faith.
GQ: Really? Even Mitt Romney?
Huckabee: He hasn’t gotten nearly as much for his Mormonism as I have for being a Baptist. I mean, I’ve never heard the kind of interviews with him that I got from Bill O’Reilly or Wolf Blitzer. No one’s just kept pressing and pressing and going into the details of his doctrine. Not that I’ve heard.
GQ: In the past, being a minister was your job.
Huckabee: Okay, but are you quizzing Rudy Giuliani about being a lawyer? I haven’t been a pastor in sixteen years. I mean, if you want to go back sixteen years and ask Fred Thompson, “What were you doing?” I don’t mind; I just think that there’s—"
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What a thin-skinned wanna-be religious martyr!
The difference is that Mitt hasn't campaigned on his religious affiliation. If anything, he's wished that it WOULDN'T be an issue. Yet he's been incessantly asked about it. "The Speech" had been called for by millions of Americans (and hundreds of media journalists). Mitt met the challenge with flying colors (everybody without a dog in this fight . . . or who's not a raging secularist . . . has seen the speech amazing and moving.)
Also, Matt Lewis has always been a Mitt-hater . . . this piece is just more of the same. |
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I have not yet decided which candidate I will support but Hucksterbee, McCain and Paul are definately off of the list. However, I love all the Hucksterbee supporters yelling Flip-flopper with reference to Romney. Seriously, you people need to look at your own guy.
Have you seen his Immigration plan? He has flipped on that in the last two weeks. Also, his support of the flat tax is a joke. Go look at his record as Governor. The tax burden for the average Arkansas resident rose 47% under the Huckster. He increased state spending over 65% and raised taxes 21 times. Now lets talk about liberal records as Governor.
There is nothing better than social conservatives who think they can spend your money better than you can. Huckster sounds vaguely like Bush but he is worse. Bush only raised spending, he hasn't touched your paycheck. There is more to being a conservative than just being pro-life. Huckster is more liberal than Romney on all of the other issues.
I am aware that Romney campaigned as someone who was personally pro-life but would not touch "abortion rights". However, look at the records again. Romney came down on the side of life very consistently as Governor. That said, I like Thompson very much. I like Romney very much. I can stomach Guliani. Huckster is a no go and I would strongly advise anyone else not to buy what the Huckster is selling. |
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If only religion as a factor WERE off the table. But it's not. Mitt tries to campaign with religion in the background, but media refuse to let him. Huckabee, on the other hand, refuses to keep religion in the background. Anyone who calls himself -- or lets his campaign people call him -- the Christian candidate is a bad bet, in my opinion. It's the ultimate attempt at pandering.
Can you imagine the uproar we would see if Obama publicly labeled himself "the black candidate" or "the minority candidate," if Hillary labeled herself "the female candidate," or if Richardson labeled himself "the Hispanic candidate." Wow -- TH and many other venues would be loaded with sarcastic articles.
Huckabee is full of it if he thinks his being a Baptist gets more scrutiny than Mitt's being a Mormon. He's beginning to look a lot like a Democrat to me -- not much substance, but publicly saying anything and everything he can to grab grab grab media attention. |
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The latest ARG poll has Romney at 29, Huck at 23 and Rudy at 17. Where Romney is known he wins.
Huck is looking like a major threat to Rudy. Rudy mega backers may want to give money to Club for Growth to trim Huck back down in the RAS poll.
Note that ARG tends to be very sensitive to moves by candidates. |
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12:57 p.m. and 1:31 p.m. posts here. I highly recommend them to all THINKING, objective seekers of truth.
So glad that you and others like BG, Jeff Fuller, and Arby are taking the time and have the intelligence and writing skills to combat some of the balderdash appearing here and elsewhere.
As I read somewhere today, Mitt is the one who has referred to this issue as his "comma problem," while it's the MSM, some anti-Mormon evangelicals, and diehard partisans of other candidates who continually bring up the "Mormon issue." |
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I do not care about Hucks faith, or Mitts faith, or even Rudys faith, what I care about is their records. All of these men have RINO tattoed to their foreheads, and I refuse to vote for a RINO. It is they that have almost destroyed the Republican party and made Conservatism a passing fad.
I am a proud Conservative, and I will only vote for the same. My vote will go to Fred! |
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Synthesizer--you are ill-informed and quoting old, slanted snap judgments and out of context sound bytes on Romney.
As http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org say (and I'm not an evangelical, btw):
""Many people know that Governor Romney ran against Sen. Ted Kennedy back in 1994 as a pro-choice candidate. Clearly, one can be a convert on the abortion issue. Witness Ronald Reagan, the divorced movie actor who was elected president in 1980 on the strength of huge evangelical support after signing the nation’s most liberal abortion law as governor of California. Reagan later changed his heart on this issue and became one of the most effective pro-life leaders in history. Obviously, our movement can and should support true “converts” on the abortion issue. In fact, converts can be the best advocates.
Governor Romney has proven he really is such a convert. As we pointed out earlier, he stood against embryonic stem cell research in Massachusetts, at great political cost to himself. He also pledged in his 2002 run for governor not to change the abortion laws in any way—which in his liberal state is frustrating to abortionists, not to pro-life voters. (His opponent wanted to dramatically liberalize the abortion laws, and we’re thankful she was stopped!) We are confident Governor Romney will appoint the kind of pro-life, conservative judges people of faith (and the Constitution) demand. While there’s no perfect candidate in the field on abortion, no serious presidential contender has risked more for the pro-life cause than Mitt Romney." |
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for his young children, who should be his first priority at his age (or for any father, truthfully). (Maybe he's not older? than Mitt, but Fred Thompson sure does not appear to have the energy and drive for the demands of POTUS.)
Seriously, Con4fred, did you watch or listen to Romney's speech of yesterday? Such arch Conservatives as Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Laura Ingraham, and Mark Levin (among others) were effusive in their praise of Romney and his speech.
From Hugh Hewitt's (here at TH) blog of yesterday:
"Rarely does American politics have such clear, positive breakthroughs --though political history is littered with the remains of many campaigns that blew up in a single day. But this was one such day. Romney's GOP opponents are shaking their heads, and at Team Clinton, they are very worried indeed, imagining a closing night acceptance speech in Minnesota that does again what Romney did today: Appeal to our better angels and our common history to urge America to persevere in difficult times, true to the ideals which launched it, and which allowed it to survive civil war and foreign attack.
They are worried about the return of a Reagan-like communicator to the GOP ticket, and they are right to be alarmed." |
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Matt Lewis is right, Romeny wears his reliigion on his sleeve and even had the gall to
call a press conference to flamboyantly announce he was making a "speech" on his "faith":
Then he whines "I am a victim" when others dare to discuss the subject he first raised himself: his weird religion is now fair game.
You say slick mitt is "pro-life"?
Which Mitt Romney are you referring?
Romney has flip flopped back and forth on this issue for years.
As a 1994 U.S. Senate candidate, he said he had believed for nearly a quarter century that abortion should be "safe and legal."
Yet by 2001, the Salt Lake City Tribune quoted him as saying, "I do not wish to be labeled pro-choice."
A year later, running for governor in Massachusetts, Romney was definitely Pro-choice and promised he would not touch any abortion law. During a candidate's debate, he was so firmly Pro-choice, he renounced an endorsement from Massachusetts' Citizens for Life.
But, last year in South Carolina, a modern day miracle occurred. Romney declared, "I am firmly Pro-life...I was always for life."
Yeah, right, if you buy that you will probably also buy his "I am a lifelong hunnter lie, and his bogus federal mandatory universal health care fraud.
He wiggles, he wobbles, he waffles, he waivers;
he will say anything to be elected.
No thanks,
I am voting for pro family, pro-life, pro- second ammendment, Mike Huckabee-and he will defeat the democrats next November.
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I listened to the whole speech. It was an excellent speech, but it does not change my mind. Mitt and many others running for POTUS are RINOS. I will not vote for another RINO as long as I live. They can be blamed for the sad state of affairs in the present day GOP.
I'm not voting for Fred because of his faith, I'm voting for him because he is a real Conservative. |
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The Seawall has broken the Huckabee Surge has become a TSUNAMI!!!!!!!---
For all of the NAYSAYING HUCKABEE HAS ENDURED--THIS IS AWSOME!!!!!!!!
Fact is that Poll was taken BEFORE Romney's BIG Speech so whatever...whine ALL YOU WANT.
most people who are against him MOST likely have not given him a fair hearing and are just a bunch of bigoted false accusers and grumblers...
get over it....Huckabee is genuine AND CONSISTENT!!!! And has not tried to BUY the voters like the other corporate GOP types did!!!!!!! Finally someone who can ARTICULATE Republican Principles with wit & wisdom!!!! (By the way he has something Al Bore, Howard Scream & Bob Dull never had...He is LIKEABLE and mixes well with people kind of like another ex-governor from Arkansas!!!!) |
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timoteotk, you can say he is consistent all you want but no body has refuted his flip-flops on immigration or taxes. Most people, including myself, have given him a fair hearing and found nothing but emty retoric and spinning of his horrible record.
Likeable is a nice trait but it won't seal the deal. The fact of the matter is that he only articulates one set of conservative principles. Conservatism encapsulates more than just social issues. Fiscal issues and foreign policy issues also figure in here and he is horribly weak in those areas.
Until now Huckster has endured very little naysaying. We'll see how it goes but this is one conservative who will go third party if Huckster gets the nod. |
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The difference between Huckabee and Romney is that Huck plays the religion card as the center of his campaign message, Romney does not. He constantly reminds voters that he is a Christian leader, that he is pious, and that he is defined by his religion. I think it is one of his smarmiest characteristics. In my view faith should be personal and kept that way. It disgusts me that Huck is capitalizing on anti-mormon sentiment.
This is America, and to quote Huck, "we are better than that". Well, we may be Huck, but you are not! |
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over the almost 700 he pardoned/released while governor of Arkansas? That's more than the combined TOTAL of the six adjacent states. You must have read or heard by now about Huckabee's role in the release of rapist Wayne DuMond in 1999?
DuMond went to Missouri--having received specific instructions to "leave the state" of Arkansas--and the next year murdered Carol Shields in Missouri. (He is also suspected of murdering another young woman in the Kansas City area, Sara Andrasek.)
I don't know about you and others, but no matter how much Huckabee may stand for gun rights and SOME other Conservative and moral values, I am APPALLED at Arkansas under Gov. Huckabee releasing convicted rapists/killers with the condition that they "GO TO ANOTHER STATE!!" |
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excellent comments, you may want to think about the realistic ELECTABILITY of Huckabee, should he succeed in getting the nomination. Should he, I might vote for him if there were no third party better option.
BUT, face it, cornpone, IF Huckabee survives the current scandal (over the released rapist-murderer who went on to murder another young woman in Missouri) to get the Republican nomination–he would be MASSACRED by the national media, and has NO CHANCE in the big “blue” states such as California, Michigan, the northeast states, etc. |
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As the "Christian Candidate" how does Huck get the government of Iraq to function. No matter what he does or requires he will be perceived by Sadr, Badr and even secular Muslims as an Infidel Christian Crusader who has a Christian agenda.
Everything we have fought bled and paid for will be lost, because Huck "the Christian Candidate" would be be resisted by the secular, moderate and radical Muslims.
If we have to deal with Iran, any thing Huck did as President would be perceived by Muslims as a Christian Crusade.
Huck, in order to get votes in IA, has created a situation where he should never be President. He could not pursue the foreign policies that he would need to without being perceived as a Christian Crusader.
He will be worse than Jimmy Carter. |
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posted by BG today on Jonah Goldberg's "On Motives, Mormons, Muslims, and Mitt" column thread (12:07 p.m.):
"Huckabee the Crusader
Mike Huckabee claims to be the "Christian Candidate" If he were to become President he would immediately be perceived by the moderate and radical Muslims as a Crusader. Every thing that we would try to do to stop Muslim terrorism would back fire.
Just think about the recruiting and fund raising that Bin Laden could do if our President was the "Christian Candidate".
Huckabee has already destroyed any Middle Eastern foreign policy that he could develop by calling himself the "Christian Candidate". That may get you votes in IA but it is a disaster as a President who has to deal with a non Christian World and with a radical Muslim crisis.
Huck is clueless on economic and foreign policy. He will be worse than Jimmy Carter as President." |
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In our shared roots of religious heritages in this country, many of us have the prohibition not to take the name of God in vain (and for some, not to even fully type out that name - for which I quickly add that I mean no disrespect in typing the word for deity).
So, if even respect for the name of deity is important to many of us, so also is respect of each other's beliefs. Both Mitt and Huck (and others) are people of faith. There should be no double standard in that regard.
It shames us all when we attach people on religious grounds. Tolerance is not the same thing as embracing an idea/faith we don't believe. Tolerance and civility can drop our of our collective comments in a heartbeat unless we decide as a group to be decent to each other - especially when we seriously disagree. I'll admit I have crossed over this line in the past in an attempt to create a clever phrase....but I was wrong!
Mitt's raised the bar for all of us, whether he's your favorite candidate or not. He gave his talk as a patriotic American who is also a person of faith. I heard Huck on the radio yesterday and could see why people like him as a person. For me the complete presidential package is Mitt, but there is much to admire in the other candidates.
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Many of us have closely followed Gov. Huckabee's rise in the polls and have prayed for him. The Bible is an amazing book that stands for God's ways and not man's. Jesus said love your enemies, forgive and do good to those who hurt you. He did not say - some laws if broken can never be forgiven and be sure that the guys who skirt the border of the US are treated with contempt and kicked out with no possibility of any type of reprieve. That is Jesus who stood for what was right even if He was to lose the favor of men...
Gov. Huckabee seemed to want to emulate Jesus until he caved into political pressure to adopt Tancredo's beliefs. Sadly, though it seems politically smart, it marks the beginning of a downward trend in his polling numbers. If he repents and gets back into following the ways and heart of the Lord, he will come back. I am just saying it the way the Bible says it is. MH has no credentials, the way the world says, to win. He has to trust in God. |
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Yes, Religious bigotry is alive and well in the 'ol U.S.A. The "holier than thou" Evangelical's hide behind the facade of "Romney's Flip-flops", while supporting an individual with questionable ethical values, pardons and tax hikes - simply for the reasoning that he's "Southern Baptist". The Evangelicals are in the process of "destroying the GOP" by their bigotry. The hypocrits will be surpised when they awake in November 2008 saddly find Pres. Hillary/Ombama in the White House. Serves these "bigots" right! Thanks Evangelical bigots. |
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Tricia, Huck did not release dumond.
1.dumond was paroled by the democrats on the arkansas state board of pardons and paroles-all of whom were appointed by Bill Clinton and his successor, Jim Guy Tucker.
The governor has no authority to parole anyone. A governor can only pardon or commute-Huck did neither.
so, It is totally untrue to say he released dumond. he did not release dumind and he is not repsoinsible for the actions of clinton parole board appointees.
2. He has never called himself *the* christian candiate. I defy you to produce any journalist , or interviewers or articles where he was directly quoted as saying he was the christian cadidate. You can't find any, becasue he never said that.
Yes, he has an ad in Iowa with a caption ionthe screen that says "Christian Leader". But that does not imply he is the only christian in the race-he is not, and he has said so.
You need to do your own research, BG and bottom feeder and Austin and the other mormons who dominate the hugh hewitt threads are far from objective where it comes to Huckabee.
3. GW Bush said when he was running for president the first time, that he believed "God wants me to be president."
then he added, "but if not what the heck?"
Bush made numerous and repeated references to his christianity andyet the mormons did not object-because Romeny was not running against Bush. But now they are livid because Huck is kicking the pants off the mormon candidate romney in Iowa.
. The Muslims know the next president will be a christian since there are no jewish candidates in the race.It will not be an impediment-to muslims all christians are the same.
as for winning the general election, he is ahead of Hillary in the zogby poll. and he will defeat the democratic nominee-regadrless of who it may be.
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After 10 1/2 years as Governor they still introduce Huckabee as Former Baptist minister
WHY DON"T THEY INTRODUCE ROMNEY AS FORMER MORMON MISSIONARY???? There is more than just a double standard there is an outright bias against Huckabee and anyone who makes reference to REAL faith.
By the way see blog on General Patton's prayer! |
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Cornpone, you obviously did not see Brian Ross's report of 12/5 on ABC's "Good Morning America" and on Nightly News with Charlie Gibson (available for viewing on line at abcnews.com) that details how Huckabee **requested** that the Arkansas parole board consider releasing Dumond. BR showed interview with a former member of the PB who was present when Huckabee "made a rare personal appeal," and said that they (the PB) decided if it was that important to the Governor that they would grant his request on Dumond's behalf. Huckabee made the request to the PB after being approached by a group of ministers who came to him and asked him to intercede on Dumond's behalf.
Also in the ABC report of their investigation: the rape victim (17 years old at the time) Ashley Stevens also made a personal appeal to Gov. H. to NOT release Dumond. She said to Gov. Huckabee that she would "never forget Dumond's face, as you will never forget mine." (Conveniently, Huckabee seems to have forgotten the meeting, except that "maybe I ran into her.")
Cornpone, you also did not comment on whether you feel okay about Huckabee's state releasing a convicted rapist (and presumably other of Huckabee's approx. 700 pardoned/commuted criminals), with **specific conditions** that they "GO TO ANOTHER STATE!!"
In my view, that is INFURIATING AND APPALLING!! It's as least as bad (or worse) than leaving loaded guns within reach of unstable persons. I don't know where you live, Cornpone, or if you have any daughters--but how do you feel about a governor who led a state whose policy was to release dangerous criminals and **inflict** them upon **other states!?**
Dumond, after being released to Missouri, after Huckabee's pleas on his behalf, went on to murder and rape **2 other young women** in the Kansas City area. |
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You're kidding, right? You wrote the following about Mike Huckabee: "most people who are against him MOST likely have not given him a fair hearing and are just a bunch of bigoted false accusers and grumblers...
get over it....Huckabee is genuine AND CONSISTENT!!!! And has not tried to BUY the voters like the other corporate GOP types did!!!!!!! Finally someone who can ARTICULATE Republican Principles with wit & wisdom!!!!"
Well, first of all, I presume you wish to be taken seriously, right? Most people here do wish to be taken seriously. If so, you might try eliminating exclamation points -- like 15 of them within 3 sentences. They are just foolish and they contribute nothing. But more important -- you fail to make the case that people who don't support Huckabee are "bigoted false accusers." In what way? Can you support that, please, with something other than more accusations or assertions?
I don't support Huckabee based on his ACTION as Governor of Arkansas and based on his current campaign behavior. He can articulate anything -- anyone can -- but I don't see any governing experience that reflects conservative Republican principles. And frankly, what comes out of his mouth is not, to me, reflective of conservative principles.
He is soft on immigration. He is soft on criminals and easy on pardoning them because he, publicly, supports "redemption." He is a big taxing guy and not a fiscal conservative. He supports increased government interference in education. And rather than "the Christian candidate," which interests me not at all even though I am a Christian, I personally want "the experienced candidate." He isn't it. |
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Tricia Ct, thanks for your reply.
I am familiar with the account of the dumond case you paraphrased. I read it on fox mobile news.
Yes, Huck visited the parole board at their request, to discuss paroles in general. While he was there they asked him about Dumond. He did not go there with an agenda. see his website
He had already sent dumond a letter *refusing* dumond's request for commutation of his sentence.That part is never quoted by the liberal media or by the Huck haters on TH who dishonestly only quote this one sentence at the very end of the letter to Dumond":
"i would like to see you get out of prison, but I will *not* commute your sentence."
The reason he refused to commute the sentence is because a commutation cannot mandate mandatory supervision of the released prisoner, which a parole by the parole board does mandate.
He gave his views-he did not force the aforementioned clinton appointees to do anything.
They freed dumont; not Governor Huckabee. You finally acknowledged that, but then shifted your position to imply that he "leaned on them" and they reluctantly caved. I know you prefer to believe their version of the story to Huck’s-and that's your right.
Tricia, as conservatives, we ought to always place personal responsibility with those who did the deed-not those who simply gave their opinions or recommendations.
In the dumond case, you have reversed that principle, and positioned these clinton appointees to the AR parole board almost as frightened, weak and helpless victims of a powerful governor of whom they were deathly afraid. Frankly, that’s ridiculous.
The only reason these two clinton appointees came forward with this distortion YEARS LATER, is because Huck refused to reappoint either of them and they are now (year 2007) getting even-its so obvious these 2 men are clinton cronies who hate Huck and his Christian conservative views-and because he was a republican governor.
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RE: Dumond's banishment from the state of AR.
Tricia, yes, i totally agree that banishment is a reprehensible way for a state to get rid of a problem. My own state of Georgia still occasionally banishes people.
Note: our conservative US Supreme Court upheld the right of all states to banish-as a principle of "state's rights".
Obiterdictum: "State's rights" are not always "right". That doctrine bears more scrutiny. But i digress..
I think its reprehensible that the state of arkansas did that.
And I also regret that our US Surpeme court upheld their right to do it.
But again, Huck had nothing to do with the banishment. Its not a Governors legal prerogative to issuea banishmnet-that is the decision of the parole board, in this case consisting entirely of democrats and clinton or tucker appointees.
so, lets be fair and place the responsibilty where it actually belongs Tricia-even if that is not polictically convenient for you at this time.
as to your personal questions: yes I have a daughter and a grandson, and I also have a femle relative who was raped as a young teenager (age 12)-(she told no-one because she was spending the night with a friend and they were out after curfew)
Had i known at the time it happened, i would be in jail today for murder-so maybe God did not want me to find out till years later.
thank you, and have a nice weekend,
Harry Barnett
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more here. (We'll have to agree to disagree on some things about Huckabee and his responsibility in the Dumond matter, as well as others.)
How do you feel about Huck's pardoning/commuting well over 600 criminals--MORE than the total of SIX adjacent STATES, COMBINED?
As an advocate for second amendment rights, I would not think you would approve such a record for a supposedly Conservative governor? |
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--but he's NOT really a true CONSERVATIVE, other than socially, as many other posters on TH are starting to point out from his record as a governor.
And, you are living in a dream world if you really believe Huckabee "will defeat the democratic nominee-regardless of who it may be."
Even if he did not have the current issues about Dumond and his statements on "isolating HIV/AIDS patients" and homosexuality being "an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle" to overcome--.
Well, face it Harry, the big northern, Northeast, and other SECULAR (primarily) 'blue' liberal states such as California are NEVER going to go for a Southern man named "Huckabee," who is known as a former Baptist preacher.
Respectfully yours,
Tricia |
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This post makes me seriously question if you have any political acumen at all? Mike Huckabee has been touting his religion for months, whereas Romney is running as a conservative Repubican. Wake up! And stop drinking the liberal MSM Kool-aid. Huckabee is the last person this country needs. |
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The HUCK TSUNAMI!!!!
10 1/2 years as Governor-and the still introduce him as a former baptist minister in EVERY article-must have been a total fluke when TIME magazine listed him as on of the top 5 Governors.
why don't they introduce Romney as a former Mormon Missionary.
Or Hillary as the former First lady
or Edwards as former Big Money Trial lawyer.
or Rudy as a former cross dresser
or Fred as a former Nixon Croney/pretend actor.
The is an obvious PREJUDICE against Huckabee but the good thing is he doesn't let it bother him(like Reagan before him/back when there were only 3 major networks ...and anyone who can remember knows how they tried and tried & tried to cannabalize him EVERY night in the news.) So whine all you want- I notice the Huck tide is starting to ride high EVEN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!!!!GASP-What would Hugh say about that??? (BY THE WAY HUGH- Thanks for finally ADMITTING that HUCKABEE MAY WIN IOWA- I KNOW THAT IS TOUGH FOR YOU!!!!!!!
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Romney has been introduced on multiple occasions as a former mormon missionary even though it was for two years and over 40 years ago.
Hillary is frequently introduced as a former first lady, and she is a msm darling.
Edwards is also a msm darling.
Rudy dressed in drag as a poor joke one time in his life, so why would they introduce him as a cross-dresser?
You are aware that Fred is a real actor not just a pretend one... although it's entirely possible he portrayed an actor in something he has done which I suppose could be called a pretend actor, but since he's actually an actor (SAG card and all) it'd be pretty odd to call him a pretend actor.
You have a wierd persecution complex. The truth is that MH is getting hammered in the press so hard because they ignored all of this when nobody took him seriously. When you run for office it's entirely fair to talk about what you did while in previous office, and its also entirely fair to talk about what you bring up first ie. Christian Leader.
I am waiting to hear someone ask him about his dodge of the mormons=cult question since he spoke at a conference where that was the stated premise it seems pretty disingenuous now.
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Evidence is mounting that Huck engaged in anti Mormon activities as Governor. That mixes Church and State. It is also biased against Mormons.
Religious discrimination is a double standard. |
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