Sunday, July 12, 2009
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A Momentous Decision
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Posted by:
Carol Platt Liebau at
12:48 PM
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In a puff piece about Attorney General Eric Holder, Newsweek praises the "attractive, poised, and uncommonly elegant" Cabinet officer and his wife, before musing on the "tension that the best of his predecessors have confronted: how does one faithfully serve both the law and the president?"
All this big, sloppy kissing is a windup to a piece focusing on the fact that Holder may -- contrary to the assurances of his boss -- insist on trying to investigate Bush officials for "torture."
Holder insists he isn't focusing on the politics of such a decision.
That must be true, because there's no way this can end up to the benefit of Democrats in general, or the Obama administration in particular. If Holder insists on going ahead, it will, at the least, feed a perception that Obama's lieutenants are desperate to dig into the past as a distraction -- an effort to avoid any focus on just how little any of their "hope and change" has accomplished.
In any case, it will make life hard on the President. It will lock up the Congress in partisan gridlock, assuring less of his agenda will be enacted. And it will be impossible for him to "vote present" and wash his hands of responsibility for the investigations and/or prosecutions. After all, the Attorney General serves at his pleasure. So in such a case, the President can either infuriate his left flank by firing Holder, or he can disgust the rest of the country by appearing to want to rehash old controversies for political gain rather than focusing on the tough problems that face the country now.
Newsweek can bring on all the sycophany it wants. If he decides to open this can of worms, Holder's going to need all the fans he can get.
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The passions of the Vietnam war, the unrestricted hormones of the flower children, planted the seed for the hatred and anti-American obsessions that today fire the Bush hatred.
Later, when the Republicans demanded the drawn out investigations of Clinton's Arkansas deals and then his sexual deviency in the Oval Office, more fuel was piled up for the Republicans.
Had it not been Bush, it would have been the same.
The hanging chads and the court decision on the voting lit the match that sent the democrats over the edge.
It does no good to say that Bush acted upon what he believed, in starting the war. If there were absolute proof as solid as concrete, it would make no difference because the hatred had become implacable. And useful.
That is the real reason the Bush mania is so viral - as Geithner says, let no disaster go to waste.
By Holder prosecuting Bush, Cheney, and whoever, Obama can mobilize the strays. Nothing so unites as hatred.
I and you could protest that Bush and Cheney protected America but America's protection is not of interest to the Democrats, just as the fact that the Iraqi's live in a near eastern country that could become the beacon of the Arabian culture.
Obama does not admit it because he does not want it to happen. He needs to grind Bush into the ground to try to make himself look good.
Arrogance may have its day, but arrogance goes before a fall.
In spite of the fact that they will try to pass a law (it is in committee - or out) that could make obama el presidente for life, this administration will some day be over.
Obama needs to watch the precedents he sets.
What goes around, comes around
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To prosecute former administrations is the most dangerous act any acting president or his party can do. He had better think what kind of precedent he is setting.
Obama intends to lower the standards of the US to that of the Banana Republics - it would seem fitting to him that we should act like one.
And yes, Obama likes this - it draws attention from his failures, from Pelosi's lies, and his own lowering popularity.
It will be especially dangerous for Obama to do this when it is he who is trying to destroy the constitution, ruin the finances of the country he has sworn to protect.
If obama carries this through, I for one will be the first in line to try him and all his czars, his cohorts in congress for treason.
http://patfromtexas.blogtownhall.com |
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you could be right. It may be a complete feint to draw attention from the real plans for American.
The real test comes when obama is mostly thwarted from turning the U.S.A. in to a communist society. How will he respond to defeat?
From observing him to date, his response is likely to be violent and repressive.
He is likely waiting for an event that will divide America radically between the producers and the consumers.
If the consumers remain devotedly attached to obama, the kenyan's, persona, he will have plenty of grist for the weapons of repression and enslavement.
After all, he is the one and the one can do nothing wrong. Killing babies is small potatoes to the one. |
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doesn't THINK anything, much less does he ACT on anything, without express direction from the White House. So, it is ALL Obama. Whether from Rahm or other minions, it is ALL The Bamma.
The shuck & jive & ponzi scheme is probably largely a feint boiling down to distraction of the well known snake oil variety:"Watch my hands everybody, so you won't see what I'm THINKING!"
Hold tight to your pockets, America, when the flim-flam folks are threatening Booooosh & Cheney-the-Evil! |
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The Bush administration should be attacked for the questionable tactics they used to keep us safe.
It is amazing that Holder thinks the American people are so indifferent to their physical safety from terrorist attacks that they will condone punishing people who have kept us safe for the last seven years. |
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I thoroughly enjoyed your pointing out the obvious below. He doesn't believe in the obvious. He's Deep, dont'cha'know? You know, what'cha'call nuanced & complex. In his value system, FDR was a Chickenhawk...see, cuz no branch of the service, know'whatta'mean? In my value system, Axie(*MCL)is a simpering little rat who roots against the men & women keeping us safe. A bleeting lefturd of the 1938 Isolationist Type that Repubs once were.
*Multiple Cloned Lefturd* |
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Your Marxists would, with great glee, peel the skin with pliers, set burning splints under toenails, and gouge out the eyes of Cheney and Palin and Rush Limbaugh. You're not worried about torture at all. This is just a very lame, very mediocre and pathetic attack on the intelligence community, a low class power grab. |
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"Me - How was torturing people, some of whom were probably innocent, protecting our country? As it stands now, we can't even put any of these guys on trial because the evidence against them is tainted."
Because this is a WAR, not a legal proceeding. Our purpose was to protect American lives and defeat the enemy, not develop evidence. Also, in a war, you don't have either the time or the luxury to rely on the niceties of peacetime law - meurde happens. And if you think what we did to the detainees was torture, you are as big a wimp as I thought you were.
"If Cheney can prove he really protected us, then he'll have an opportunity in court to do so. What's more likely is that we are going to discover these guys were tortured in order to implicate Saddam in order to justify the Iraq war."
Cheney doesn't have to PROVE anything (and the last sentence - pure worthless speculation). We elect our leaders and let them govern. We hold them responsible through the election process and, in extreme cases, impeachment and removal from office. We DON'T prosecute them for good-faith executive decisions. That is a Pandora's box you DON'T want to open. |
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Khalid Sheik Mohammad is duly noted. Like nearly all of your kind, you know not a glimmer about interrogation techniques in asymmetrical war. Lots of hookups and quiz-truth-game methods employed to make sure--in this case, particularly--that ALL necessary info is gained. The people of Los Angeles whose downtown central skyscraper was targeted by KSM need to be VERY grateful. The warriors whose lives were saved due to KSM's divulging of large information about al Qaeda cells ARE grateful.
But, hey, like I said, *MCL, your weeping sympathy for the Butcher-Designer of 9-11 is hugely noted. Not at all surprised. |
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Shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lrf8DbrJH0o this is why you are such an Obama sychophant. have you been riding in the limo with obama? |
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To partisan as viewed by the public and Cheney and Bush would be able to defend themselves and it would make the Dem's look silly.
Never gonna happen. |
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Yep, you puking pantywaists put the people on trial that helped--dramatically--keep our country safe from a repeat of 9-11. You let us all know how you'da read Khalid Sheik Mohammad, the designer of 9-11 & mass butcher extraordinaire, his almighty rights and saved his nasal membranes from discomfort. He spilled some upcoming mass murdering that was prevented, but you come on downnnn. Uh-Huh. Can't wait.
Me- If the information that Khalid was giving out was so good, why did they feel the need to waterboard him 186 times..
What was waterboarding #93 going to get you that waterboarding #92 didn't?
If the Bush people were so on the up and up about it, why lie about how often it was done?
what little useful information was gathered (and if any actually were, they'd have told us all about it by now) is more than offset by our loss of reputation in the world. Most of Europe wants no part in this struggle. It's between us and the Arabs now... |
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Cheney's a criminal
kayann writes: Monday, July, 13, 2009 1:04 AM
Anybody care to acknowledge Bush crimes?
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Put up or shut-up. PROVE IT! Haven't seen a trial or a verdict. YOU DON"T COUNT! Bet it never goes to trial. Why? Because BO knows when he leaves, he will be put on trila as well. Don't be stupid! |
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Good laws and bad laws
There are two kinds of laws: those that protect honest citizens from the predations of criminals, and those that make the actions of honest citizens criminal. The former should be defended with all of might, mind and strength, and the latter should be opposed with equal effort.
What leftists are attempting to do, as totalitarians have done in all ages, is to make the actions in defense of these United States criminal. Prepare to be opposed.
Me- How was torturing people, some of whom were probably innocent, protecting our country? As it stands now, we can't even put any of these guys on trial because the evidence against them is tainted.
If Cheney can prove he really protected us, then he'll have an oppurtunity in court to do so. What's more likely is that we are going to discover these guys were tortured in order to implicate Saddam in order to justify the Iraq war.
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Just finished reading the articles you posted. I don't see any criminality involved. Even the IG's report final conclusions states that. This looks more and more like a pissing match between the executive and legislative branches.
You rabid leftists are just going to have to go fish elsewhere. |
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There are two kinds of laws: those that protect honest citizens from the predations of criminals, and those that make the actions of honest citizens criminal. The former should be defended with all of might, mind and strength, and the latter should be opposed with equal effort.
What leftists are attempting to do, as totalitarians have done in all ages, is to make the actions in defense of these United States criminal. Prepare to be opposed. |
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kayann writes: Monday, July, 13, 2009 1:04 AM
Anybody care to acknowledge Bush crimes?
It's amazing that Townhall is completely ignoring the breaking news that is everywhere but here: Bush/Cheney concealing a counterterrorism project from Congress and told the CIA not to brief Congress. Do you HEAR that, friends? Pelosi, it seems, was RIGHT. But the disturbing fact is that the Bush/Cheney administration was behind the nefarious act.
This document, a congressionally-mandated report by Inspectors General of five separate intelligence agencies confirms that the Bush administration carried out “unprecedented,” massive surveillance activities beyond the warrantless wirteapping program that had previously been revealed. The Bush administration authorized the program without fully notifying Congress::
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/psp.pdf
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090712/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_ch eney_counterterrorism_7
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/11/cheney.surveillance/ index.html?section=cnn_latest
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31867022/ns/politics-the_new_yo rk_times |
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GW'Sand Cheneys job was to protect the country and they did an admirable job after 9/11 . with the damage done to our intelligence gathering capabilities by the Clinton administration, It is nothing short of a miracle that they did as wekll as they did . As for waterboarding some terrorist scum so what! |
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"Again, put up or shutup. PROVE IT!"
In the fullness of time, the US Justice Department will do exactly that. I have a deep and abiding faith in the American Justice System. We've taken the first step in a long journey to the truth. |
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He was wrong. As are you and BK.
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Again, put up or shutup. PROVE IT! Your opinion don't count for much. |
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"I do not believe anything Bush and Cheney did in defense of our country was criminal."
Nixon said it best: "when the President does it that means that it is NOT illegal."
He was wrong. As are you and BK. |
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And I'll bet you do, too. You'll just never admit it.
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Well with the Bull -Sh1T you been running all you have to do is PROVE it. Put up or shut up! |
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I do not believe anything Bush and Cheney did in defense of our country was criminal. You are one twisted, evil man. |
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"Of course Bush and Cheney never committed a crime."
It appears that Akennas2 thinks otherwise.
And I'll bet you do, too. You'll just never admit it. |
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A criminal might claim that necessity, but would never admit his crime. Which path have Bush and Cheney chosen?
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Of course Bush and Cheney never committed a crime. |
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"GWB, Cheney, et al did what was necessary to protect our nation."
The logical equivalent of "we had to destroy the village to save it."
It may indeed sometimes be necessary to break the laws of the nation in order to preserve it. A patriot would do so, gladly, and then would admit his crime and take his punishment, with pride and honor. A criminal might claim that necessity, but would never admit his crime. Which path have Bush and Cheney chosen? |
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I love that quote from Orwell. It must be very difficult to fight a PC war.
"War is Hell"-William Tecumseh Sherman |
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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -George Orwell
GWB, Cheney, et al did what was necessary to protect our nation. I applaud their EVERY move in the war on terror - in fact, I would have gone much farther than they did. Only the pusillanimous, mewling leftist wimps in our midst object to what they did to preserve our Republic. You are not worthy of this nation.
Anyone who attempts to prosecute Bush Administration officials for "war crimes" should understand the "rough men" will oppose their every move, so help us God. |
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"Self righteous? nah, just righteous. and it is a righteousness that is actually derived from a kind of humility, believe it or not."
What a load! Nope, don't believe it for one second. You are a typical arrogant, self-centered, self-important leftist who wouldn't know righteousness if it kicked you in the butt. |
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Humble people don't go around broadcasting how very principled they are. You're too much! |
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???
You always have to complicate the rhetoric far beyond the point. I just want some straight forward investigations to start;
Lets start with Nancy. Seeing that she is stirring the CIA lied pot again (last week via a letter sent by one of her stooges), its about time to really find out under the penalty of perjury what she knows. Since they continue to tell the CIA they are lying, which will demoralize the agency, which will compromise our future safety, this is far more important than digging up the past.
And we also we need to really investigate Dodd and his relationships with the loan industry, not to mention that nice house in Ireland. Since they went after the Alaska Senator for his house, this is worse.
And lets not forget Barney. He too has inappropriate behavior with the loan industry. Afterall, Fannie and Freddie helped wreck our economy. And they were complicate. Since we are all suffering from this in our pockets ( I think last years losses alone cost tax-paying citizens about $1800 each).
And just for fun, shouldn't there be full disclosure of Joe Bidens Hedge fund debacle?
But then again, Eric Holder doesn't agree with you. Some people are above the law. He does his best to pardon terrorists when he can. |
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whatever. i just value principled morality. call it self-righteous. what do i care? i think it is sad that i have to remind conservatives how principle works. but i must, as conservatism has degenerated into moral relativism, with one set of "principles" for friends and another set for enemies. no doubt, liberals do that too--but not THIS liberal. and i invite you clowns to keep that in mind next time you rationalize your own transgressions by the larger transgressions of your opponents. unlike you, i don't do that. my standards are uniform, and it amounts to a major league difference between me and most of you.
self righteous? nah, just righteous. and it is a righteousness that is actually derived from a kind of humility, believe it or not. |
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All interviews with National Press are on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lrf8DbrJH0 |
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Dread writes:
"I fail to see how you can justify not investigating allegations of torture, brutal conduct, and murder just because we find it politically inconvenient to do it."
Andrea: Then why did your president decide to "leave the past behind"?
Pat. Lib. writes:
"...my acceptance/rejection quotient is determined by the act, not by the politics of the actor. it is the way principled men operate--although there are few of those in these parts. around here, guys grab a principle to match their emotions. in my case, and i don't mean to thump my chest, the precept leads--and all precepts are organized in a rationally coherent, non-contradictory manner. it is the way of the liberal."
Andrea: That is some of the most sanctimonious drivel I have ever read. You come off as very self-righteous, P.L.. |
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Larry Sinclair was nosin' out wide butt, Queen Mickey, the first ho', before she was the first ho'. The "best boy" has gone black(half white, but whos countin', right) and he can't go back! In the video, he pines for, and reminisces bout' all those nights. Oh, Barry, play that flute, some more! Is there a chance that we can get obama to wear a red shirt, in San Francisco? |
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abso-frigging-lutely. public corruption is vile. investigate their sorry you-know-whats and let the chips fall where they may.
this is the way a principled guy does it, btw. i don't like voter intimidation. i don't like public corruption. i don't like lawless and extra-constitutional chief executives. while i am willing to tolerate human failings, my acceptance/rejection quotient is determined by the act, not by the politics of the actor. it is the way principled men operate--although there are few of those in these parts. around here, guys grab a principle to match their emotions. in my case, and i don't mean to thump my chest, the precept leads--and all precepts are organized in a rationally coherent, non-contradictory manner. it is the way of the liberal. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MceFVpJ-Gyc |
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A man named Larry Sinclair posted a YouTube video alleging that he and President Barack Obama engaged in sexual acts and drug use together in 1999, when Obama was an Illinois State Senator. He claims that then-State Senator Obama procured powdered cocaine for Sinclair, and crack for himself. Sinclair also attests that their drug use was followed by sex acts that included Sinclair performing oral.
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is nothing more than a distraction to shift the focus from the community organizer's failed "stimulus" and the coming generational debt! And then there is the report on those areas of IL that supported the boy-king and how they are enjoying lots of $$$$; also in keeping with his "transparency and change" the coming fight amongst the Congress for the "favored" dealerships, remember the govt. wasn't really going to involve itself in this industry! |
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The following is a post on National Review's "The Corner" by Andy McCarthy
"Justice, Obama/Holder Style [Andy McCarthy]
Binyam Mohammed: jihadist plotting mass-murders against American cities — released outright.
Laith Qazali: abduction/murder of 5 U.S. soldiers in Karbala — released outright.
Irbil 5: Iranian IRGC operatives (i.e., the same guys who murdered 19 of our air force at Khobar Towers in '96) coordinating Iraqi terrorist operations that have killed HUNDREDS of U.S. forces in Iraq since 2003 — released outright.
New Black Panther Party operatives on videotape intimidating anti-Obama voters — charges dropped after DOJ had already won the case.
CIA Interrogators who obtained information that saved countless American lives — under investigation.
Bush officials who deliberated over national-security policies that prevented another 9/11 (many of which the Holder/Obama DOJ have defended in court and, however inadvertently, in Congress) — under investigation."
Barack Obama's sense of justice would seem to lean in favor of our sworn enemies and comes down hard on anything or anyone that opposed them. Your president at work for you and your posterity. |
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LEGALLY.
Anyone remember President Nixon in 1974. Nixon in many ways was a Good President.
bo is an ILLEGAL ALIEN, MARXIST, muslim BISEXUAL! |
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Sorry, but if investigating allegations of real estate shenanigans and lying about oral sex are worth pursuing and spending millions on, and impeaching a president, all under the name that the mighty and the lowly should be held to account under the law, then I fail to see how you can justify not investigating allegations of torture, brutal conduct, and murder just because we find it politically inconvenient to do it. |
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Neo's posts make less sense every day...
I think we ruined his happy place. |
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your predecessor (while you did nothing to try and stop him as a junior senator from Illinois), must be the "post-boomer alternative" politics that Patriotic Liberal keeps telling us about.
Once again, Newsweek is covering (this time preemptively) for Obama, their "sort of God." By portraying Holder as doing this on his own, Obama doesn't have to take the heat from the political fallout. You have to give liberals credit...they are master manipulators. |
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His poll numbers are going down, and his policies are in trouble so obviously we get the CIA story about Cheney and the torture investigation of all the Bushies. Well, Obama always said he was going to be transparent. |
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You are either:
1.) A pathological liar.
or..
2.) Physiologically Brain DEAD.
I figure point one for you, Babycakes. But, I'd much rather it be the non-malignant point two. |
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"no man is above the law"... or woman
We have a handful of congress that also need to be investigated for current wrongdoings...
Lets have at it! |
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give it a rest, Bush is not in office,how long are you going to beat this drum? |
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agreed. neither black panthers nor the former VPOTUS get a pass in a country governed by laws. |
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Washita River, Gen'rul Obama. Them's thousands of Souix & Cheyenne warriors..And, when they get through with'y'all, Gen'rul, there ain't gonna be nuthin' left but a greasy lefty spot."
Bring it on General Holder. Oh, yeaaaaah, Bay-Beeee, we sho'nuff be buyin' the bullshiite that you doin' somethin' on yer own without the hairless chested Bammy's say so. Riggghhhtttt!!
Yep, you puking pantywaists put the people on trial that helped--dramatically--keep our country safe from a repeat of 9-11. You let us all know how you'da read Khalid Sheik Mohammad, the designer of 9-11 & mass butcher extraordinaire, his almighty rights and saved his nasal membranes from discomfort. He spilled some upcoming mass murdering that was prevented, but you come on downnnn. Uh-Huh. Can't wait. |
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Hand over Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld to the international court at the Hague along with all the evidence, let them work it out...
I mean, if it was good enough for Milosevic... |
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"Obama's support among the public is dropping like a rock."
This "rock" of which so many of you speak must be drifting downward in microgravity. All of the major pollsters show his support moving around in a 10-15 point range. The Real Clear Politics running average of a bunch of polls has his approval rating moving within a NINE POINT range.
"Dropping like a rock" would describe Bush's descent from 75% to 20%, not Obama's drop from 66% to 57%.
But of course I realize you're not talking about polls in this world, but in your own fantasy world, the Loonisphere. |
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no man is above the law. if Cheney was lawless in his exercise of his constituted office, he must be punished. And the Black Panters that stood guard with their billy clubs can just hang out with the rest of the thugs, no need to prosecute those outstanding individuals. |
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editor@pronlinenews.com |
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what do you expect from lying, and useless
Community organizers. |
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the good citizens of this country already said "enough." Enough to a generation of failed "conservative" leadership. Enough to the Republicans, a party that drove our country into the ground--economically, strategically, and morally.
no man is above the law. if Cheney was lawless in his exercise of his constituted office, he must be punished. |
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From the brutal personal, political, professional and pathetic attacks on Sarah Palin, to now going after Frank Ricci because of the Sotomayor reversal, investigations of the CIA, talk of prosecuting former Bush officials and now, another witch-hunt on former VP Cheney, it is time for the public to end the Obama Inquisition.
This behavior is not political, it is criminal and the tactics of a tyrant. In the old Soviet Union, they called it a purge. The systematic destruction and silencing of Obama's opponents and critics, looks, quacks and walks like a purge, and so should it be called.
Obama's support among the public is dropping like a rock. If he hopes to finish his first term without being impeached let alone seeking a second one, he had better become the president and stop being "El Presidente."
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