Saturday, November 07, 2009
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Pro-Life Democrats Enabled Passage Of Health Care Bill
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Posted by:
Jillian Bandes at
11:28 PM
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Thirty-two Democrats oppose the thing, but Pelosi still has the 218 votes she needs to get it passed.
The biggest irony of the day is that after inserting pro-life language into the bill, Pelosi managed to secure the votes of pro-life Democrats to get it passed. That means pro-life legislation was the only reason the bill was able to pass at all. From AP:
In the runup to a final vote, conservatives from the two political parties joined forces to impose tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies to be sold to many individuals and small groups. They prevailed on a roll call of 240-194. Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it. Passage would clear the way for a Senate debate expected to begin in several days.
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The King James translation leaves much to be desired. The original Hebrew text in Exodus 20:19 is better translated, "Do not take innocent life." |
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Chris writes: Monday, November, 09, 2009 2:22 PM
Arch
Only a moron would see a Doc for no good reason just to "Clog up the system and render it useless". You are one sick puppy!
Arch says
You have to fight mental illness with mental illness. Passing and supporting the Obama care bill takes a group of deranged individuals all in collective idiocy to ruin the public health care system that is the best in the world! You are a dumb A zz to support such a federal take over. You just did in your post so I deem you a moron! Many and a great majority of our populace will agree with my assessment of you Chris!
I will even go to the doctor with imaginary symptoms and diseases just to bog up the medical testing labs and demand an MRI for no reason at all except prevention.
Hell I will get my money's worth if it is free and bog down and bankrupt the system any way I can dream up. Hopefully millions will see fit to do the same and rid our nation of the sick idea of the libs! |
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Only a moron would see a Doc for no good reason just to "Clog up the system and render it useless". You are one sick puppy! |
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I've put up with the endless whining from the Right Wingnuts on the abortion issue as well as "they're coming to take my guns away" paranoia for 40 years. So HOW DOES IT FEEL? That abortion was the issue that turned the vote FOR the public option, when abortions were illegal under HR3200 all along anyway. Righties, you've been played for a fool with the Conservative movement. They're run by billionaires on Wall Street and Citibank, and couldn't possibly care less about guns and abortions, and keep you suckered into supporting them while they steal you blind. |
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about the capitulation by "pro-life" Democrats in voting for this monstrosity is that those restrictions on tax funded abortions will be stripped behind closed doors. The final bill will look nothing like the one they voted for. Same goes for the Senate...all the posturing by blue dogs about the public option is futile. If the leftists take it out before the vote, it will make it back in in the final version. The statists/leftists are hellbent on destroying this country and there appears nothing, short of Divine intervention, that will stop them ultimately. Pray my friends; only God can save this country now.
Don't bother arguing with Axe; he is not an atheist. He is a God-hater. He doesn't understand that he has it all backwards. The question is not why does God let bad things happen, it's why does He save any of us miserable sinners at all? We deserve only damnation and, were it not for His mercy, we get more than a little foretaste of hell on earth. |
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"Eugene's God loves Hitler"
All you've done on these posts is talk about your concept of God, Ax. You presume that your concept of God is the same as someone else's. Including mine.
It must be your God that loves Hitler ax because that's the only God you can imagine and to you, your conception of God, and others', is the same as my conception of God.
You don't know my God Ax. And you are unwilling to know Him. That's why I can't explain God to you.
What would be the point?
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That you claim to have voted for McCain is irrelevant to me. What you believe is available for all to see.
You're a statist.
Omt, you say, "If God is such a decent, powerful and great force for good, why does he allow abortion, 9/11, the Holocaust, slavery or any number of HUMAN evils when he clearly has the power to stop them."
"Duh, God? Um, like, why do you let bad things happen to good people?" Again with the fairy tales, huh? God is some muscle-bound Santa Claus doling out switches and toys depending on one's righteousness? For a 47-year-old, you have child's narrow level of understanding of spirituality.
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The point of the previous post in case you haven't guessed it is that He loves us all. That includes you even as you spit in his face. It's called love beyond human understanding. So worm, how long are you going to fight against the God who loves you even as you hate Him? The path back to the Father is still opened to you worm. |
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"Lynching was perfectly legal under the laws of the South in 1955" Sunday, November, 08, 2009 6:56 PM
"Was it legal, No" Sunday, November, 08, 2009 8:33 PM
Good! Case closed.
Thump!
You effed up again axe. I'm a little worried that the doorway you keep running head first into may be facing too much wear. You should have a professional look at it.
"We got the top leaders, and left everyone else alone."
Yeah? Demanjuk was a General? Chief of Staff? Colonel? The best I can tell is he was a guard. Doesn't sound like a top guy to me. So I guess they didn't just leave everyone else alone. And would you have rathered they went after the minnows and let the whales skate? Probably!
And remember, you complained about Demanjuk Ax. Secretly rooting for him????
You ever get tired of being proven wrong time after time? Or is public humiliation a type of pycho sexual experience for you?
Nooooo... forget it...I don't even want to know!!
I'd go thump but I think that doorway could use a break.
......Hell... the whole house needs a break.... |
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God did love Hitler, He lives in sorrow for what he did because Adolf baby ignored what God said and did what HE thought was right which turned out to be the polar opposite of right. Adolph Hitler had his chance to get right with God and blew it big time. So what are YOU going to do worm? |
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"Me- No, I'm just asking the question. If God is such a decent, powerful and great force for good, why does he allow abortion, 9/11, the Holocaust, slavery or any number of HUMAN evils when he clearly has the power to stop them."
If you don't get that one... I don't know anyone who can help you.
Me- I get it perfectly well.
It's 1923. A bullet is flying towards Adolf Hitler in the beer hall Putsch. You're God. Because your omniscient you know the future is this a s s hole lives, and you know the future if he doesn't. If he lives, a war starts, 70 million people die. If he doesn't, well, things maybe won't be so bad.
And because you are omnipotent, you can make the bullet land right in his diseased brainpan, ending the problem righ there, or just wing him, making him a hero... oh, that's right, you let him live because... ummm, not sure why, really. |
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Me- No, I'm just asking the question. If God is such a decent, powerful and great force for good, why does he allow abortion, 9/11, the Holocaust, slavery or any number of HUMAN evils when he clearly has the power to stop them.
1) He is indifferent, and therefor unworthy of our worship.
2) He is non-existant, and therefore, unworthy of our worship.
Okay worm, God gave us free will. He also gave us his Word that if we were to follow the list that you made wouldn't exist. Could He wipe us out? Yes but to do so would mean that those like you who are lost would be permanently lost. He's giving you a second chance to get your stuff in one bucket. Those who're responsible for human caused carnage will one day have to answer for it.
So 1) God IS worthy of our worship because He is unwilling to throw us all out with the bath water.
And 2) If God doesn't exist then those responsible for the human caused carnage get off scott free.
And also 3) God is not responsible for what humans do, He's only responsible for holding humans accountable for what they've done. Got that worm? |
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"Sorry pally. Ever heard of the Geneva convention in regard to the treatment of civilians and capture enemy combatants? They Nazi's were prosecuted under war crimes acts..not German law."
Me- Uh, no. We got the top leaders, and left everyone else alone. Believe me, the whole Holocaust was not perpetrated by the few thousand leaders we prosecuted. (And a lot of them got pretty lenient sentences, given what they had done.) But Germany passed a law in the 1960's that excused the lower ranking perpertators of war crimes...
As far as the Geneva Convention, all war crime trials are winners punishing the losers.
DOY -And it was legal to kill blacks in the south in the 50's? Geeez.. could you source something like that? The actual code that said "Don't kill white people but do it to the colored all you like!"
Was it legal, No. Did people get away with it because you had all-white juries that acquitted people... .um, yes. That's EXACTLY what happened in the Till case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmet_Till#Trial
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They're on the ol' remember the Maine blog spot in case you're not aware. |
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I left a few retorts to your retorts to my retorts worm. Why don't you go check'em out, I'm sure they'll make your evening. |
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"If you are going to speak in an absolute that "abortion" is murder"
When did I equate abortion to murder? Check all you like...
Thump!
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"Me- No, I'm just asking the question. If God is such a decent, powerful and great force for good, why does he allow abortion, 9/11, the Holocaust, slavery or any number of HUMAN evils when he clearly has the power to stop them."
If you don't get that one... I don't know anyone who can help you.
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"The things were IMMORAL then, but the Holocaust was PERFECTLY LEGAL under the laws of Germany in 1941. Lynching was perfectly legal under the laws of the South in 1955. Why do you think Emmett Till was such a big deal? Because he was a CHILD who was lynched, and his mother put him in an open coffin to show the evils of lynching."
Sorry pally. Ever heard of the Geneva convention in regard to the treatment of civilians and capture enemy combatants? They Nazi's were prosecuted under war crimes acts..not German law.
And it was legal to kill blacks in the south in the 50's? Geeez.. could you source something like that? The actual code that said "Don't kill white people but do it to the colored all you like!"
And give me the legislation that repealed that would you?
Can you dig that up for me?
Thump!
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Then they should have done the right thing and voted for it...
My guess is most of the 220 who voted for it will STILL be Congressment when this is over... |
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The cost to the Democratic Party to what was done is going to be immense in 2010 and I am seriously wondering if the Democratic Party can survive Dumbo's presidency. All the "blue dog" Democrats will be politically killed in 2010, simplly for being "Democrats". The Democrats who voted against this bill will have no political cover at all, they will be politically killed because of "guilt by association". |
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"Hmmmmmmmm....Earlier you were spouting biblical principles as if you were a scholar. And now you claim ignorance on one of the basic tenants of faith in God?
You were just cherry picking earlier weren't you Ax? You kind of just busted yourself again....."
Me- No, I'm just asking the question. If God is such a decent, powerful and great force for good, why does he allow abortion, 9/11, the Holocaust, slavery or any number of HUMAN evils when he clearly has the power to stop them.
1) He is indifferent, and therefor unworthy of our worship.
2) He is non-existant, and therefore, unworthy of our worship.
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"As if time and age is a reason to forget them.
Are you in favor of forgetting them Ax?
I think that question pretty much answers itself."
Me- No, actually, it doesn't. I think going after someone like John Demanjuk for something he did as an 18 year old kid forcibly conscripted into the German Army is a bit much. They accused him of being at one camp, found out he wasn't, but then the figured he MIGHT have been at another camp. So they deport him to Germany, which passed a law in the 1960's exempting GERMAN citizens from any crimes they might have committed. But John was a Ukranian, so Germany's protection of its own much guiltier citizens doesn't apply to him. You don't see anything wrong with that picture?
Which brings me to the point. If you are going to speak in an absolute that "abortion" is murder, and you are going to change the law to make it a crime, doesn't it follow that you prosecute the people who did it? Or do you do what Germany did, exempt all of their own citizens, and then maybe find a bit player scapegoat a few decades later to assuge their guilt?
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"Me- Gee, that sounds kind of sick, actually. God KNOWS you are about to commit a "murder", perhaps because you are desperate, yet despite being omnipotent and omniscient, he does NOTHING to stop you? But,man, he's going to punish you for all eternity if maybe you thought you did the right thing under a bad circumstance."
Hmmmmmmmm....Earlier you were spouting biblical principles as if you were a scholar. And now you claim ignorance on one of the basic tenants of faith in God?
You were just cherry picking earlier weren't you Ax? You kind of just busted yourself again.....
Didn't you ax?
I'll ask God to thump you this time.
Duck!
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"If that's how you view God, then yes, you do believe in fairy tales. Now, statism is your religion, chump. Do you get "thrills" up your leg when YOUR religious leader/messiah reads his teleprompter?
The only difference between your religion and any other is that yours comes at the point of a gun. Does your religion preach tolerance or obedience? Tolerance, bud, means leaving people the F alone. Got that?"
Me- Didn't vote for Obama, voted for McCain. Think he's actually pretty ineffectual. No, I don't believe in "statism". I think there are some things the government should be doing, some things the private sector should be doing, and some things the private sector seriously needs to be watched on. And so do you, actually. It's just where we draw the lines that differ us.
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These men were either acting under the color of law, or were acquitted by the RACIST legal system of the time.
The things were IMMORAL then, but the Holocaust was PERFECTLY LEGAL under the laws of Germany in 1941. Lynching was perfectly legal under the laws of the South in 1955. Why do you think Emmett Till was such a big deal? Because he was a CHILD who was lynched, and his mother put him in an open coffin to show the evils of lynching.
Now, justice is being done, and these people are being hunted down... so why not hunt down the abortion babes when you guys finally get your way. (Rhetorically, of course). Because teh women of this country would NEVER stand for it. They didn't consider what they did to be murder, just because you do.
God, you are a dumb f**k, aren't you? |
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Before you go out for more ice:
"Not true. We are STILL chasing down the last octegenarian Nazi and senile Klansmen for stuff they did in the 40's and 50's."
A little concerned with Nazi's and Klansmen being hunted down?
I can see how that would be reasonable concern for you.
And you write:
"octegenarian Nazi and senile Klansmen for stuff they did in the 40's and 50's."
As if time and age is a reason to forget them.
Are you in favor of forgetting them Ax?
I think that question pretty much answers itself.
Sig Heil............... Thump! |
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"Not true. We are STILL chasing down the last octegenarian Nazi and senile Klansmen for stuff they did in the 40's and 50's."
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm Ax... (How do I say this and not make you look stupid? I can't) the things they did were illegal then....and they are illegal now.
Thump!
Thump!
Thump!
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be without our resident Catholic Nutter, Dreadnaut?
"God has all the time in the world. To collect all abortionists, mothers who had a child snuffed out, and the enablers, such as Pelosi, John Fr' Kerry, Obama et al;
From the four corners of the world. God will call them all to His judgment seat. Those who were not repentant are going to be sent to hell. Not because we say so, because they are guilty of innocent blood;
And "legal" or illegal won't wash the blood from their hands.
So, prosecuting all of them here in this life is futile and unnecessary. None of our courts could sentence them to everlasting pain and sorrow in hell; so justice wouldn't even be done that way.
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord; I will repay."
That's what awaits those poor mutts. "
Me- Gee, that sounds kind of sick, actually. God KNOWS you are about to commit a "murder", perhaps because you are desperate, yet despite being omnipotent and omniscient, he does NOTHING to stop you? But,man, he's going to punish you for all eternity if maybe you thought you did the right thing under a bad circumstance.
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"That is my right, and I'm trying to keep it that way. I doubt that I'd have that right if you nutters had your way."
No.... we actually have read and support the constitution. Unlike you.
Thump!
And if we did decide to treat the constitution the way you do and made aethism illegal:
"They threaten to throw you in jail for copying DVDs.... how often does that actually happen? Unless it's someone pirating DVD's by the thousands, not really"
See ax. By your own words you have nothing to worry about.
Double Thump!!
Can't quite get past your own double speak.
Can you Ax? |
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"I no longer believe in fairy tales about men who live at the north pole giving out presents or men who live in the sky handing out good or bad fortune."
If that's how you view God, then yes, you do believe in fairy tales. Now, statism is your religion, chump. Do you get "thrills" up your leg when YOUR religious leader/messiah reads his teleprompter?
The only difference between your religion and any other is that yours comes at the point of a gun. Does your religion preach tolerance or obedience? Tolerance, bud, means leaving people the F alone. Got that?
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It's been legal for the 30 million plus woman to have abortions since '73.
You can't prosecute people for legal behavior ax.
Maybe Barry will change that too, but I doubt abortion will be one of the offence's in question.
me- Not true. We are STILL chasing down the last octegenarian Nazi and senile Klansmen for stuff they did in the 40's and 50's.
Besides, by your logic, it's still murder. We should prosecute them after we change the law, right?
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B- "You are just a bigot. That is the only word for you. I am sorry your life is so pathetic that you have to resort to demeaning the religion of others, not sure what happened in your life to make this so nessessary. Something tells me you would never actually use the word "sky pixy" to anyone in real life, you just don't strike me as a couragious person."
Me- You mean other than the 11 years I spent in the Army? But, uh, yeah, I actually am pretty open about my atheism. Have been for decades.
But I'll tell you what happened. I grew up with lot of Catholic propaganda. And when I very LOGICALLY pointed out the fallacies in their creed, their only response was to try to bully me into compliance. Almost always the LAST thing you want to do with me.
When I was 9, and heard the story of the Flood, and how God killed everyone for their "wickedness", I asked, "what did the little babies do to deserve to drown?" Sister Mary Bulld yke responded, "They were WICKED children. WIIIIIIIIIIICKED!!!!!" Yeah, that makes sense.
When I was 12, I figured out that Luke and Matthew contradicted each other on who Jesus ancestors were, and both traced his line through Joseph, who wasn't the sperm donor, God was. When I asked Sister Mary Butch about this, I got whacked over the fingers with a ruler.
When I as 13, a lightning bolt hit the steeple of our church and the cross came down. Now, how could God do that to his own "house". Well, I wasn't bothering to ask at that point...
Between my 19th and 21st birthdays, both of my parents were diagnosed with cancer, and the whole community prayed for them. They died anyway. I was pretty much done with the God Bulls hit after that point.
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B- Oh, and the Nazis motovation for killing Jews was a eugenics,
Me- Uh, yeah. You know what the German Army had on their belt buckles. "Gott Mit Uns" Not "Darwin is the Bomb", but "God is with us". yeah,maybe the Nazi higher ups believed in some kind of twisted Darwinism (even though they banned Darwin's works in Germany, and Hitler never mentions Darwin once in Mein Kampf. Guess how many times he mentions God?)
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B- So you compare God commanding the Israelites to whipe[sic] out people who were committing acts of child sacrifice to a woman murdering her child because she can't be bothered to deal with the consequences of her mistakes? Interesting.
Me- So God's response to child sacrifice was to KILL THE CHILDREN of the offending tribes? Really? Oh, yeah, and then there was God accepting child sacrfices like Jephthah's daughter (Judges 11:30-40).
B- You may be indeed chronologically 47, but your words show otherwise. Constantly mocking the beliefs of millions doesn't win you any arguments. You can't win on substance, so you instead attack people on a very, very personal nature.
Me- Uh, no, I think I'm making an argument on substance. Your silly beliefs (no matter how many people hold them) would be just fine if you kept that nonsense in your homes and churches. It's when you try to make it POLICY based on it that we are going to have a throwdown.
B- If you are an atheist, fine, that is your right. But like I said before, grow up son.
Me- That is my right, and I'm trying to keep it that way. I doubt that I'd have that right if you nutters had your way.
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To collect all abortionists, mothers who had a child snuffed out, and the enablers, such as Pelosi, John Fr' Kerry, Obama et al;
From the four corners of the world. God will call them all to His judgment seat. Those who were not repentant are going to be sent to hell. Not because we say so, because they are guilty of innocent blood;
And "legal" or illegal won't wash the blood from their hands.
So, prosecuting all of them here in this life is futile and unnecessary. None of our courts could sentence them to everlasting pain and sorrow in hell; so justice wouldn't even be done that way.
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord; I will repay."
That's what awaits those poor mutts. |
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"Something tells me you would never actually use the word "sky pixy" to anyone in real life, you just don't strike me as a couragious person."
That's a fact.
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"When are you going to call for the murder prosecutions of all 30 million plus women who've had abortions since 1973?"
It's been legal for the 30 million plus woman to have abortions since '73.
You can't prosecute people for legal behavior ax.
Maybe Barry will change that too, but I doubt abortion will be one of the offence's in question.
Thump!
Lie down from a while until you stop seeing stars. |
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So you compare God commanding the Israelites to whipe out people who were committing acts of child sacrifice to a woman murdering her child because she can't be bothered to deal with the consequences of her mistakes? Interesting.
You may be indeed chronologically 47, but your words show otherwise. Constantly mocking the beliefs of millions doesn't win you any arguments. You can't win on substance, so you instead attack people on a very, very personal nature.
If you are an atheist, fine, that is your right. But like I said before, grow up son.
Oh, and the Nazis motovation for killing Jews was a eugenics, they believed that Jews were genetically inferior. Didn't you claim to have a history degree?
You are just a bigot. That is the only word for you.
I am sorry your life is so pathetic that you have to resort to demeaning the religion of others, not sure what happened in your life to make this so nessessary. Something tells me you would never actually use the word "sky pixy" to anyone in real life, you just don't strike me as a couragious person.
As I said before, grow up son. Respond if you want, but since you obviously can't speak like a grown up, you will be ignored. |
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types...
When are you going to call for the murder prosecutions of all 30 million plus women who've had abortions since 1973? |
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"Thou shalt not kill. Pretty simple."
Me- Actually, not really, since through the rest of the bible, God commands his people to kill Midianites, Ammonites, Moabites, Philistines, Samaritans, adulterers, disobedient children, blasphemors, heretics, homosexuals, people who like farm animals, and oh, yeah, any fetus that might actually be inside any member of the above groups.
"Something tells me you haven't actually read the book, just quoted from your favorite anti religious bigots."
Well, it is true, that after 12 years of Catholic School, they did their darnedest to hid the fun passages from us... or tried to sugarcoat stories to make their God look like less of a pr ick than he actually is in the text. So they tell you about God turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, but not Lot getting drunk and banging his two daughters after he had offered them to be gang-raped.
"I know it makes you feel good about yourself to mock God, and mock the beliefs of others. If you really think that gives you any kind of argument at all, it doesn't. You just show yourself to be the immature child that you really are. Grow up son."
GUy, I'm 47, and I have grown up in that I no longer believe in fairy tales about men who live at the north pole giving out presents or men who live in the sky handing out good or bad fortune.
However, in my sarcasm, I make the argument, you guys want to use the Bible as an excuse to oppress whoever you want to oppress, and chances are, you can find a passage in there somewhere to do it... At one time, the Bible was used to justify slavery, racism and war, which I think we all agree now are bad things. Heck, the Nazis even used the Bible as an excuse to kill the Jews, which I consider the worst book review, ever, considering they wrote it. |
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"Pro Lifers help pass Public option?
Ironic? Ubetcha, and soweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. What goes around, comes around. Heh heh heh."
Must be the statists of whom Wendy wrote. She just targeted the wrong party-ideology.
So I guess that you think servitude is funny, huh? You think it's funny that for the first time in history, Americans will be penalized for simply being born?
If so, let me tell ya, this is not going to end pretty if President Soetoro signs a bill which expands those on the public dole, increases govt spending and taxes, is utterly unaffordable, tramples on the feet of those opposed (abt 70% of us), and is likely to end in the prosecution of conscientious objectors.
Oh yes. There WILL be widespread civil disobedience, and it will be impossible(!) for the socialists to spin it as racism or rightwing extremism. I'd LOVE to see President Soetoro turn water cannons on a bunch of old folks marching on DC, wouldn't you?
heh, heh, heh
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"Me- There is no "invisible sky pixie" up there ready to pass judgement,and frankly, reading his handy-dandy guidebook, he never put an injunction in there telling us NOT to have abortions."
Thou shalt not kill.
Pretty simple.
Something tells me you haven't actually read the book, just quoted from your favorite anti religious bigots.
I know it makes you feel good about yourself to mock God, and mock the beliefs of others. If you really think that gives you any kind of argument at all, it doesn't. You just show yourself to be the immature child that you really are.
Grow up son. |
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Fabius Cunctator To:Wendy: Abortion "Rights"?
If Abortion is not outlawed, there will be no Republic and no USA as originally conceived.
If a Party does not stand for Truth, that Party does not deserve the support of the people.
God is in control, and He is watching and waiting.
Me- There is no "invisible sky pixie" up there ready to pass judgement,and frankly, reading his handy-dandy guidebook, he never put an injunction in there telling us NOT to have abortions.
Not ONE passage in there telling us not have an abortion. IN fact, the only passages I see about fetuses tell me he didn't consider dead fetuses that big a deal.
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23"
In fact, sometimes God's even commanded the death of fetuses when they were in "harlots"...
"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24"
So, even if I were inclined to believe that women should be forced to have unwanted babies, I certainly wouldn't look to the Bible as an authority on that.
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the abortion addendum will be taken off the final bill - those are the little leaks heard here and there - Nancy made all her promises - all her back room deals - and covered many nervous Dems on the abortion issue -word is it will be reversed. However there are many Americans who do not want their tax dollars used to provide abortions to anyone - anyone at all. And that is the right of many Americans - it is their right and their duty to object.
And illegals will be covered (after all they are scheduled to become Obama's 2012 voter base). Everything will be just dandy.
Everything will be dandy for some - however, unless this economy and job situation makes a drastic turn around in the next 10 months - many of the reps that voted aye will be out of a job.
Health care reform is an Obama fantasy - nothing the average American cares about - other means could have been used to make the necessary adjustments to the current system - things that could lower costs and increase efficiency.
That would not work for Obama and crew - they have to throw the baby out with the bath water - so they can have full control over every segment of the daily life of "we the people". |
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If Abortion is not outlawed, there will be no Republic and no USA as originally conceived.
If a Party does not stand for Truth, that Party does not deserve the support of the people.
God is in control, and He is watching and waiting. |
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"Yes, an unwanted pregnancy is a punishment for lack of birth control. The child generally gets punished for life if not aborted as non-viable entity."
Lonny expresses deep concern for all non-viable entities and demonstrates that he is the epitome of ignorance. |
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Ironic? Ubetcha, and soweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. What goes around, comes around. Heh heh heh. |
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"and they will take down the Republic to stop abortions"
Let's not make this discussion about abortion. Let's leave Roe (and everything else) for another time. Instead substitute core beliefs for the word abortion. And right or wrong, opposition to abortion is a core belief amongst many Americans. So many so (as you described) it was a major issue that had impact on this vote.
All core beliefs have major impact on House/Senate votes; policy's and yes, wars.
This republic was almost taken down over a core belief known as the abolition of slavery and barely survived. That took a war to decide.
I am not advocating a civil war to determine which core beliefs will win out in this age (and there are several core beliefs on the table today)...what I am saying is that given the choice of abandoning a core belief to save a republic that not only dismisses that belief, but scoffs and mocks it, is not a negotiable position to those that hold that core belief.
So like it or not, core beliefs, to the individuals who hold them, are worth risking a republic over.... to the inviduals who hold them.
No matter which side one stands on.
And yes, the republic is as risk today.
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not threat in that last post |
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"Punished"? Heh.
Roe isn't the law if it's unConstitutional. Roe doesn't have the legitimate force of the Constitution; just naked force.
Regardless, sans Roe, abortion would be legal in most states and have varying degrees of acceptance and availability. Citizens could move to a state which most conforms to their views on a varity of issues, including abortion. My guess is that most would move for economic reasons (see CA hemmorrage all who can afford to leave) rather than the lack of availability of abortion.
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"who actually represent the constituents and NOT be turn-coats".
Sorry. |
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Some of the shiit you liberal fools come up with is really reaching. And "The Law" as you call it has nothing to do with what is right, just, and moral. Killing the innocent because they would be a threat or a nuisance is noting but a premeditated, cold blooded, heartless murder. If you resepect your life, or any other life, how can you not respect that of the unborn?
Anyone who condones the slaughter of the unborn is a cruel animal, and not worth killing themselves. You and your ilke clearly have Satan's 'blood coursing through your heartless veins. |
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We have to trust each other - certainly not our so called representatives - but we have to be careful. Tip O'Neil said "All politics is local", and there is a lot of truth to that statement. If we vote for a third party candidate, it leaves the possibility of leaving the Dem in power. If we throw out all incumbents (and I've really struggled with this one), we again leave the possibility of the Dems coming out ahead. We will have to think of how to balance these issues. Maybe in 2010 throw out the Dems, then, clean up the Pubs by getting the RINO's out and then the 1/2 and 1/2's (half Dem, half PUB or some mixture like that), and going back to representatives who uphold Republican/Conservative principles and who will actually represent the constituents and be turn-coats - like Cao (the turn-coat in Louisiana hope I spelled his name right). Quit AARP! |
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in a society will never be right, no matter how many "laws of the land" will the mass murderers pass for themselves. |
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so you think a girl who gets pregnant in a state that makes abortion illegal should be punished because of where she lives?
Yes, an unwanted pregnancy is a punishment for lack of birth control. The child generally gets punished for life if not aborted as non-viable entity. |
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I just read your blog entry, "The Enslavement of the Accounting Profession, the Financial Crisis, and a Crisis in Philosophy". Very nice. It's clear that you are a fiscal conservative.
Impressive. |
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Roe is bad law. It is a Tenth Amendment issue.
"As early as 1821, the first state law dealing directly with abortion was enacted by the Connecticut Legislature. Conn. Stat., Tit. 22, 14, 16. By the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth [410 U.S. 113, 175] Amendment in 1868, there were at least 36 laws enacted by state or territorial legislatures limiting abortion. 1 While many States have amended or updated [410 U.S. 113, 176] their laws, 21 of the laws on the books in 1868 remain in effect today. 2 Indeed, the Texas statute struck down today was, as the majority notes, first enacted in 1857 [410 U.S. 113, 177] and "has remained substantially unchanged to the present time." Ante, at 119.
There apparently was no question concerning the validity of this provision or of any of the other state statutes when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted. The only conclusion possible from this history is that the drafters did not intend to have the Fourteenth Amendment withdraw from the States the power to legislate with respect to this matter." -Rehnquist dissent (toward the bottom of the page)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&v ol=410&invol=113
How is fealty to the Constitution "statist" to any except anarchists?
Abortion is a side-issue for most of the electorate. Most conservatives, pro-life or not, are fiscal conservatives. In fact, fiscal conservatism IS the new litmus test. Loud and Clear.
I've been a Tea Party activist since Feb. I've seen thousands of people with thousands of different signs. I can count on one hand the number anti-abortion signs. The one I remember delt with taxpayer funding, not the moral implications.
You may not like single-issue pro-life activists, but when the rubber meets the road, they are on your side (assuming that you are a fiscal conservative).
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Social conservative philosophy is behind the GOP's recent disastrous and politically unnecessary support for mandatory coverage of pre-existing conditions, mandatory nondiscrimination in health insurance, and mandatory reinsurance.
If it is our "duty" to help the needy, then you MUST be sacrificed for the sake of the needy, no ifs, ands, or buts. No rational analysis allowed, no moral judgment or ethical boundaries allowed, only moral relativism, egalitarianism, and collectivism in carrying out the commandment of compassion. You must sacrifice, because someone is suffering and has a great need, and you have something to be sacrificed.
It doesn't matter how many go out of business or how many people lose their jobs or how many people will have to live on the edge of poverty or lose their meager resources or watch their future be annihilated because they now have to carry the uncarriable weight of the pigs who would take from them. Your future, the question of whether you have the ability to make it or to succeed in life if the fruit of your best efforts are taken away from you, is irrelevant. No one will ever discuss it. You are irrelevant, because you have something, and someone else doesn't. Someone is suffering now, so your duty is to suspend cognition, emote over it, and do whatever it takes to relieve that person's suffering--no questions asked. If you refuse to provide it, then you can and should be forced to provide it, since you were supposed to be doing your Christian or secular altruistic duty anyway.
Freedom and social conservatism are diametrically opposed, and eventually, Republicans will have to make a choice. |
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Americans favored some type of reform. What they clearly did not favor was a government take over. They did not favor unconstitutional actions to be taken by our government. They did not desire to be taxed or penalized to death. They did not desire the government deciding what treatment they could and could not receive. I would say the government failed to even touch on the reform that people really wanted. Instead they pushed forward with what can only be called a government take over of health care and nothing is further from what the majority of the American people actually wanted. |
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If the Republicans had voted the amendment down in order to sabotage the health care bill, would that have been a good idea? Would the pro-life Dems still have voted for the bill? Curious as to others' thoughts.
Such a vote would have been held against moderate Republicans, with any challenger alleging that they voted against an amendment that would have prevented the funding of abortion. |
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Americans favor healthcare reform by a 55% over 44% who do not. This would include all of the pee nuts on this forum, ok so let just SAY "NUTS" |
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Had the GOP had the correct position on abortion--which is that a fetus is not a person and therefore not entitled to a woman's life, ergo, anti-abortion laws are a violation of individual rights--they would not have been forced to vote for the amendment, and the bill would not have had the cover it needed to pass. Having the wrong ideas resulted in a disastrous outcome in practice, as they always eventually must.
Like I have said, the social conservatives, along with their psycho religious obsession with abortion, are derailing freedom. Their ideas are irrational and hog up intellectual space that could be used to set the GOP back on the winning path. But how can Republicans figure out how to apply limited government principles when they have social conservatives screaming into their ears and into the public space about the right and the need of society, i.e., the government, to ram statist measures down our throats, sacrificing individuals for the collective, in order to create a great American moral order?
Anyone who thought the recent populist uprisings were the beginning of a new era of cooperation between libertarian conservatives and social conservatives was living in denial and whistling past a graveyard. There was no real cooperation. They are two separate factions with different aims.
Make no mistake about it--the social conservatives will continue to advocate statist measures that support what THEY see as American traditions, and they will take down the Republic to stop abortions. |
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americans will rise up and vote every one of these people out who voted for this in november |
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time to stop the bickering and infighting between our right wing brothers. this is why the socialist are in power now. we neeed to find common ground and take back America. GET IT ?? WORK TOGETHER !!! start by signing the petition @ http://www.impeacobamacampaign,com and then join the movements in your state to get the lib-socialist out of power |
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The Dems will strike the "pro-life" language when the bill goes to conference. You foolishly knuckled under blue dogs and you will get knuckled out of office in about a year from now. |
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i hope it was more than 30 pieces of silver. |
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The reason this took so much time to pass was that Pelosi had to cover the phoney posers, the "Blue Dog" Democrats, so they could vote against this without angering the voters in the Republican districts where she, Harry, and Rahm hand picked and "tutored" the candidates.
She has had enough "yea" votes all along!
Hopefully the Senate will put an end to this bankrupting health care scheme and people will remember (or at least pay attention) in 2010!
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.....the Grand Ole Putterpusses, for this healthcare bill. Ever notice how valiantly they fight the good fight when they are totally out of power and can't do anything about it.
When you run a vapid organization that everyone hates...Get this now... who spends worse than the democrats did previously, which they campaigned against, you create a void for vermin like Nancy P. to fill.
You insane rubes who are cheering this ego-maniacal simpleton on have no clue whats in store for you. You will get an idea when you taste grass soup.
Have a good day....don't get sick! |
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SEND 10 bucks directly to them to thank them for having spine to do the right thing!
Volunteer tomorrow for their reelection campaign
OTHERS NEED to hear from you: Pitchfork and Torches time
Congressman, RESIGN NOW
We can no longer afford your incompetence, belligerent arrogance, recklessness and cruel hoax on the middle class American Legal Citizens who are already victims of your destruction of America agenda.
The campaign to replace you will begin tomorrow, anyone, any party, to prevent you from continuing your abuse of power.
To overturn your destructive agenda. WE will go door to door until you are replaced.
YOU lie, and then you lie about your lies.
BTW
WHERE ARE THE JOBS
WHY ARE THE ILLEGALS STILL HERE
WHEN WILL you prosecute this corrupt criminal administration, ACORN, SEIU, MOVE ON corrupt criminal leaders, the corrupt criminal democrat controlled congress and Senate
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The poor Canadians (and Americans and Illegal Aliens)!
Where will the Canadians, and everyone else, go for their urgent or critical health care treatments once the new "system" (tyrannical socialism) is in place in the USA? Imagine the chaos when all of the new government health insurance bureaucrats and clerks try to reconcile errors in claims and billings with the billing office administrators of physicians and hospitals. Who is going to interpret a 2000 page "Law" in order to administer the payments and allowed treatments with fairness?
In a survey conducted about 10 years ago, the IRS gave 10 different answers to the same tax question. You must go to Federal Tax Court in order to resolve taxation disputes with the IRS.
Now you will have to go to a Federal Health Insurance and Health Care Court in order to resolve disputes over your billing or care. Of course, if you have a care dispute, you may die before your case gets resolved because cases taken to Tax Court, as an example, usually take a year just to get heard and another 1 to 3 months for a ruling. Just imagine the complications involved in trying to resolve a health care dispute: you have the patient and his lawyer, the Doctor, the Hospital, the Government health insurance bureaucrat, and the office administrators of the Doctors and Hospitals that have to be heard and reconciled in the dispute.
This new “Health Care” Bill is a “make work” tyrannical socialist project for unemployed Lawyers, and it will create new classes of workers called Health Insurance Adjustors and Health Law Administrative Judges.
God help us!
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Fool exponential.
Madressas are the vacumm that fills the void we leave behind. That was made clear on two PBS docs. (yes, my favorite channel taught that).
Man, just when Spony left, you step up to dumb factor. what is this, Liberal Wresting tactics?
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all of the confusion as to what is actually in this bill will now see the light of day.
As evidenced by the tossing around of amendments and language through out the week the real nuts and bolts of who voted for what will now be on display....and with that the inablity to deny what is actually in the bill. For example,the language creating "Death Panels" will either be there or it won't be. No more debating on whether it will be or not. It is. And it's that simple.
Running for re-election when the proof is made clear by a final product the "No. We won't put that in there. Are you crazy?" Well.....that won't fly anymore.
It's a long way from the Capital Hill to Main Street. But all of these Dem's who voted for this will find themselves on Main Street in a few short months.
Thought the Townhalls were bad?
Just wait. |
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Snicker 1?; I came from Europe. Not sure why you think its a vacation for me there? You brought up Letterman as your only experience to being there.
Snicker 2. Lets be clear, you are going from a 28% tax bracket to a 33% tax bracket in a few years. Start cutting down on your Starbucks Lattes now. Its going to be a bumpy landing for you.
3. You are confused. Water will be scarce. Why dont you care? Carbon is one tenth the problem. Be progressive and get that. Or be an Americano (fool) and fall for the Con... |
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Not much to scale the Senate with.
Glad-handing 'news' presser after the vote was just embarassing for the Democrat leadership and Committee biggies. The boot lick they did for Ms. Pelosi was just saccharin.
I loved Ms. Bachmann in front of the House well as the vote was finalized and all the Dems were high-fiving each other. Ms. Bachmann was standing there, waving 'goodbye' at them in anticipation of their constituents next vote come 2010. Bachmann is one of our best friend in the Congress. We all need to send her money come election and campaign time. |
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1. Only you care what time Letterman is on in Europe since you decided two write so much blather about it but I guess that's fool's version of a vacation-watching American TV in Europe-you are what the French call "a rube."
"Snicker"
2. You can cram all your Taxation BS-who cares? pay the tax or move. Period. If you can afford internet access you can afford a few bucks.
3. Are you ever going to send you earth is cooling argument to John McCain? Seems he thinks you're an idiot so you may want to work more at changing his mind than mine-maybe you should stop fighting me an take a look at your own party moron. Just a hint.
"Snicker" |
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You are such a Tool of the Left. What I told you is in the bill about your taxes. Do you get that was why some people were taxed 90% back in the 70s?
As for climate change. you are a triple fool. The earth is cooling. When that happens, it rains less. That means less water for everyone. It is Natural. (and has nothing to do with the GOP or Craptax Lefties). Yet you cling to your Carbon Messiah, ALGORE.
Fun Climate facts this year;
How about that Hurricance season?
Hey, 27% more ice in the artic this October.
Quadruple Tool. Letterman overseas? They don't air him there everywhere. If you spent as much time there, you'd know that.
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When a relative is denied coverage and given a government sanctioned death sentence, take that loved one to your local evil demoncrats office and camp out. People dying in their congresssional office could be bad public relations you know. I am not kidding. The democrats hate life from womb to tomb. They are the party of death and those fools who think Nancy Ceausescu and Harry Reid will allow the Stupak amendment to survive in the conference committee are deluded. |
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No Val, we didn't lose because we didn't cross the aisle. Around 300 Republican amendments did not see the light of day because Pelosi wanted this done in her image - a bloated, botoxified toxic sausage. 1990 pages of a Very Big Dirty Secret mostly put together behind closed doors with Republicans shut out of the process.
1990 pages of perhaps the most consequential legislation in U.S. history being voted on without any public exposure of what's in the thing. Sure, we know the main points, but the reason it runs to nearly 2000 pages is there's tons and tons of fineprint that's going to have major consequences for everyone, including criminal penalties for individuals and companies who want to exercise their democratic right to choose not to insure themselves. Even legislators hardly had time to get across it before having to vote on it.
This thing was voted on in the dead of night, on a weekend, without any decent exposure of what's in it. If that's not dirty and secretive, I don't know what is. The Dems are touting it as the best thing to happen to America since the New Deal (that's actually debatable!). If its so darn good, why this unholy rush and furtive midnight Congressional sessions?
One reason and one reason only. Socialist control of 1/6th of the American economy and your and my lives. They knew they could only do it before America woke up from its Obama swoon and while they still had the numbers. Well America has woken up, so they have been secretive and deceitful about the whole thing, but unfortunately they still have the numbers...just. 220 to 215 is not an overwhelming endorsement. The 215 included 39 Dems who saw through the toxic Pelosi sausage...it will be toxic for all Americans, but especially for Red State Dems in 2010...but lets see what happens in the Senate. |
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you need to read. They did try to propose amendments and made many, many suggestions and not a single one was even accepted to be looked at. They were shut out and had to accept it AS IS, and they couldn't do that.
Stealing a quote from a friend, just for you Val: "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams |
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Hey did you ever get in touch with John McCain and Lindsay Graham about that "climate change argument" you have? You might want to pick up the pace on that since cap and trade looks like to be your next defeat.
Death and taxes are a way of life-I'd rather my tax dollars go to helping my fellow Americans than building madrassas in the Afghan desert.
Too bad that the only "conservatives" who are able to get things done are blue dogs-seems the GOP was too disengaged to worry about abortion-it took dems to clear that up.
So sad how irrelavent your party is becoming.
But as you thinking watching Letterman in a foriegn country is getting a different view of American one can clearly see how you may be deluded otherwise.
Way to take these losers to the mat nancy.
Ok Reid; you're up next! |
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It is unreal how pro life REPUBLICANS can be so STUPID as to have voted yes on the Stupak amendment. The clever,tactical vote on the Stupak amendment was a NO vote. That amendment gave cover to the so-called conservative or moderate democrats to vote yes on the whole demonic healthcare plan.
People will die because of this bill. NO question about it. |
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How close are you to the next tax bracket? Thanks to your other leader Princess P, if you ever get a raise to keep up with inflation your tax rate will go up. They wrote in repeal for inflation indexing to keep up with your salary (ASSuming you have one).
Do you get that? They are taking away your safetynet to ensure you can make a living...yet you are in the stampede? Mooooo! |
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Val writes: Sunday, November, 08, 2009 12:18 AM
dirty little secret
wow you mean that if Republicans had learned to cross the isle and learn to work with democrats instead of demonizing them you might have had a more conservative unified front against the bill but hey you people just keep throwing people out of your big tent-you will keep losing juts like you did today.
Good job.
Arch says
Need anyone read any more from Val to discern her ignorance? I thought I had read the most imbecilic post in the world until now! |
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wow you mean that if Republicans had learned to cross the isle and learn to work with democrats instead of demonizing them you might have had a more conservative unified front against the bill but hey you people just keep throwing people out of your big tent-you will keep losing juts like you did today.
Good job. |
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arch writes: Saturday, November, 07, 2009 11:23 PM
Peaceful protest to eradicate Gov Care!
When this system gets started, I am going to visit the doctor twice a day for each and every little ache and pain I experience to clog up the system and render it useless. I encourage everyone to do the same if not more to overload and quickly bankrupt the whole system, to get it eradicated ASAP! |
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