Sunday, January 11, 2009
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National Security Is Sobering. Even For Mr. Change
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Posted by:
Jonathan Garthwaite at
2:43 PM
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Will Obama close Gitmo? Will Obama allow the CIA and military to interrogate the enemy? Mr. Change will have to think about it more.
From the This Week w/ George Stephanopoulos transcript: STEPHANOPOULOS: Vice President Cheney has been giving a series of exit interviews and he told Mark Nolan(ph) of CBS that the Bush counterterrorism policies have definitely made the United States safer. And he added this piece of advice for you. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) DICK CHENEY: Before you start to implement your campaign rhetoric you need to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and how we did it. Because it is going to be vital to keeping the nation safe and secure in the years ahead and it would be a tragedy if they threw over those policies simply because they've campaigned against them. (END OF AUDIO CLIP) STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you going to take it? OBAMA: I think that was pretty good advice, which is I should know what's going on before we make judgments and that we shouldn't be making judgments on the basis of incomplete information or campaign rhetoric. So, I've got no quibble with that particular quote. I think if Vice President Cheney were here he and I would have some significant disagreements on some things that we know happened. STEPHANOPOULOS: You would say for example? OBAMA: For example, Vice President Cheney I think continues to defend what he calls extraordinary measures or procedures when it comes to interrogations and from my view waterboarding is torture. I have said that under my administration we will not torture. STEPHANOPOULOS: How about them taking that to the next step. Right now the CIA has a special program, would you require that that program -- basically every government interrogation program be under the same standard, be in accordance with the army field manual? OBAMA: My general view is that our United States military is under fire and has huge stakes in getting good intelligence. And if our top army commanders feel comfortable with interrogation techniques that are squarely within the boundaries of rule of law, our constitution and international standards, then those are things that we should be able to (INAUDIBLE) STEPHANOPOULOS: So no more special CIA program? OBAMA: I'm not going to lay out a particular program because again, I thought that Dick Cheney's advice was good, which is let's make sure we know everything that's being done. But the interesting thing George was that during the campaign, although John McCain and I had a lot of differences on a lot of issues, this is one where we didn't have a difference, which is that it is possible for us to keep the American people safe while still adhering to our core values and ideals and that's what I intend to carry forward in my administration. STEPHANOPOULOS: You also agreed [with John McCain] on Guantanamo when you say you want to shut it down. You say you're still going to shut it down. Is it turning out to be harder than you expected, will you get that done in the first 100 days? OBAMA: It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it's true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up. STEPHANOPOULOS: So not necessarily first 100 days. OBAMA: That's a challenge. I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do. But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.
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Obama has never promised to close Guantanamo "in the first 100 days." |
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he has promised to close Gitmo......
Who cares if it is the first 100 days, 2nd 100 days, 3rd 100 days, etc.
It is the dumbest, most naive, thing he could do.....
By keeping Gitmo prison open, you get a double benefit......
You keep that filth off our home soil while simultaneously thumbing the Castro brothers in the eye.......
A WIN WIN!!!! |
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that Obama will change after he is completley briefed and will forego the campaign rhetoric in favor of reality . While i disagree with him on practically everything i do hope that he has a successfull presidency. one with no terror attacks on our homeland and recovering economy |
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The interrogation that the Bush administration pursued, especially when applied to the DoD under Rumsfeld, backfired, and backfired badly. The CIA interrogations were far more professionally handled, but I think waterboarding is not a policy we should pursue (I think intensive psycological techniques that Col. Herrington proposed is the way to go). I also absolutely do not consider what the CIA did to KSM a "war crime." But Obama has to take national security seriously or we will face a very ugly and dangerous surprise. |
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Yeah....maybe.
It still beats what the Islamic Radicals do to their prisoners.
Of course, Daniel Pearl, Nicholas Berg and others are no longer with us to inform the faint of heart.
Waterboarding, or any other form of "torture", is way more humane than beheading someone with a KNIFE. (yes, I DID see and hear the video of the beheading of Mr. Berg).
NO PITY for waterboarded prisoners from me.
They ARE still alive, aren't they????? |
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Don't get me wrong, Islamic radicals are rabid animals who for the most part should be shot on site. The question is whether or not we, that being Americans, should be engaging in torture of detainees. Most say no. The next question is whether waterboarding should be allowed or not--for high level detainees like KSM. I think not, because there are other ways that in the long run work better and do not compromise our morals. But it is a close call and does not shock my conscience either. If you disagree, fair enough.
Ultimately that is a decision that Obama needs to make.
And I also do not buy the hypocrisy of the left. Clinton engaged in actual pulling out the fingernails type torture, but through proxies in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. |
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I do not believe Obama ever said the "100 days" bit but it has always been a campaign promise that it would be a "high priority". It's mainly human rights groups (and a whole bunch of journalists presumably making it up too) that are demanding it's closure in the 100 day period.
It is funny how so many news outlets are citing the 100 days as being a gospel campaign promise despite there being no evidence I can find of that.
It's just campaign rhetoric - it's a high profile issue and saying you will close it sounds good and all part of the "change" thing.
Cheney's statement is just another demonstration of the naivete of many of those promises made on the trail.
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If things do not radical change in 100 days, Obama's Administration is a failure!
Okay, I do not believe that. But that is the kids of stuff guys like you Bob the Dancing Democratic Monkey did with McCain and any of the Republicans all the time. Remember twisting 100 years in Iraq? You would twist a phrase into something it was not.
So it is a bit much for you to complain now. |
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All you need to do is google "obama close guantanamo bay 100 days" and see just how often the 100 days is referred to as a campaign promise by news media. For something we are led to believe was never said there sure are a heck of a lot of journos who seem to think it was.
The opening para of Georgie-boy's blog today reads...
"During our exclusive interview on "This Week" I asked President-elect Barack Obama if he thought he could make good on his CAMPAIGN PROMISE to close Guantanamo Bay within HIS FIRST 100 DAYS.
(emphasis added)
He seems pretty convinced it was a "promise".
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"But that is the kids of stuff guys like you Bob the Dancing Democratic Monkey did with McCain and any of the Republicans all the time. Remember twisting 100 years in Iraq?"
Can you point to somewhere that I've done that? |
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Stephanopoulos: "During our exclusive interview on "This Week" I asked President-elect Barack Obama if he thought he could make good on his CAMPAIGN PROMISE to close Guantanamo Bay within HIS FIRST 100 DAYS."
Stephanopoulos is just being sleazy there. He DIDN'T say that, or anything approximating it, when actually talking to Obama. The transcript of the interview is quite clear. |
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I know, I read the transcript too. It's a pathetic state of affairs when you can twist what actually was said in a televised broadcast of an interview with a president elect and write blatant sleazy lies on your major news organizations web site. |
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"It's a pathetic state of affairs when you can twist ..."
True, but I have a slight disagreement with what you said. It's not pathetic when you CAN, in fact it's desirable; free speech and all that. It's pathetic when you DO it and get away with it. |
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a lot of Obamatons are starting to sober up now that the election is over. Some leftians are rubbing their bleary eyes, wishing they had a gun to end the throbbing in their heads, and wondering where they are - "whew! I still have my clothes on." Hope and Change meets grim reality. |
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Hear, hear!!!!!!
Your last sentence says it all..... |
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"Hope and Change meets grim reality."
What this "news" boils down to: "Obama still intends to close Guantanamo ASAP." In other words, hope and change are still what's planned, nothing has been weakened or put off.
The ONLY disappointment I have from Obama thus far is that he is not declaring that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. will be tried for war crimes immediately. I harbor the hope that he's just not saying that before the Inauguration because Bush might be inspired to issue blanket pardons for himself and all his henchmen. |
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imbibing in the Obama "hope & change" Kool-Aid!!!
Sheeple in the grandest sense!! |
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It's amazing how short sighted you folks are. Obama is using a delay tactic until he can figure out what to do with the really bad guys we have tied up. He has a couple choices. Keep them locked up, kill them or set them free. Some of those folks will do very bad things to Obama, his wife and children... and any other westerner given the chance. They are sworn to it. Some are pawns. Some and hired guns, etc.
Now that the Obamoron has to actually read some intel before he opens his trap, he is balking.
So what will he do with these guys? THAT is the question you should be asking. He has a promise hanging out there that he will close Gitmo. That means he will either kill some of those really bad guys with the ole "make them go away" non-comment comment, keep Gitmo going, move it or release them to do their dirty deeds.
More than likely, he will create a new Gitmo somewhere else which the Dems will help him keep hush-hush, which will eventaually be leaked and then brushed under the rug by the left wing media machine and Obamination supporters.
ANYWAY this turns out, you people who voted for the man solely or partly because of his Gitmo stance are incredibly ignorant. Too bad you had to drag us real Americans down with you. |
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"And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up. "
Therein, the flubbering "o" shows the enormity of his ignorance.......
Message to Terrorists......"pour it on suckers...the days of Clinton and Gorelick have returned"
I, Granite, for one have to say...."Holiest of Fvcking Sh1t!!!!!!" this man is single handedly going to bum rush this country into something no one recognizes........
The US elected a community organizer.........
The rest of typhoid "o"'s interview..........
"Well, Georgie puddin pie......we have terrorists who would like to kill as many of us as they can.....and in the meantime if it kills them to kill us, they would gladly become martyrs....
Georgie....these are the guys we wanna talk to....these are the guys who need their day in court.....Yess...Georgie, you blithering halfling!!!! This is change we can bleeve in!!!!"
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Replacing the stars with a hammer and sickle ! And if you can't believe in it,Obama's new security force will help you get your thinking in order. |
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War crimes? Are you serious? You call that war crimes? I don't 100% agree with what President Bush decided to do either, but to be tried for war crimes is far-fetched and an emotional response to what you have been hand-fed by the likes of CNN and MSNBC.
Obama is realizing what the rest of liberal America needs to realize: terrorists and muslim nations will not stop their ferocious tactics until the world is muslim or the infidels are dead, whichever comes first. The peace core and diplomacy will not work. |
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That so many people have so little regard for the American Justice System and calling for new systems and procedures to handle terror suspects, given that the Justice system has been one of the few departments of government that has been doing a successful job at locking away citizens, innocent and guilty/violent and non-violent alike.
Also amazing that so many conservatives have jumped the fence back to 'limits on executive power' so quickly while so many liberals have jumped over to the 'but it's different when our president does that...'
It's a beautiful ballet for we cynical few who think you're both full of excrement.
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So, not to make judgments on the basis of HIS OWN campaign rhetoric? How much clearer can he say that his "campaign rhetoric" was a sales pitch, aka lie? |
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"You call that war crimes?"
Not just me. The United States Government called this kind of torture war crimes in the trials after WWII.
"The peace core and diplomacy will not work"
Maybe we need to get to the corps causes of terrorism. |
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THEY AREN'T CITIZENS YOU MORON. |
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We also prosecute foreign nationals in our justice system just fine, bub.
So unless you hate America and think our justice system sucks (and given that we have an absurdly high prison population per capita, I fail to see any logical reason why you would think that), there's not a good reason not to prosecute these people through normal means. |
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