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Good for you. Exceptions don't make the rule. |
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Another argument frequently made against homeschooling is:
“there are people who could provide help if something is amiss in the children’s lives”[If they are in an institutional school.]
If all children need outside monitoring because some children are being abused, then why are all children not placed outside the home in some sort of institution on a daily basis from birth? Aren’t infants, toddlers, and preschoolers the most vulnerable to abuse? Why aren’t they being provided with this type of protection? What about school aged children during the summer?
Aren’t we here because a homeschooled kid DID contact a state agency about abuse? Apparently it IS possible to get help even if not institutionalized from 8-3 M-F 180 days per year. Isn’t this ruling basically saying something along the lines of, “This homeschoooled kid has made us aware of abuse, so no one should homeschool because their kids won’t be able to make us aware of abuse.!?” |
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Again, going only by the judges decision, it would lead people unfamiliar with the law in CA to assume the defendants and everyone else registered through independent study programs are not complying with current CA the law. That is not true. I posted the link to HSLDA with the legal options and the requirements of the teacher/parent in each situation.
The judge's ruling claims there are established LEGAL options in CA that are unconstitutional. It is the current law on trial. That’s why the opening line of the decision reads,
In this dependency case (Welf. & Inst. Code, § 300), we consider the question
whether parents can legally “home school” their children.
The laws the defendants are accused of breaking are child abuse laws.
He continually cites the state constitution requiring a quality education for all children and then MAKES THE ASSUMPTION that certification equals a quality education. He is attacking the current laws that DO ALLOW uncertified parents to teach through independent programs connected with charter/public schools. He even points to a previous legal case with these same defendants that ruled they DID have that legal right under the state constitution. There is no debate as to whether they were in compliance with the current law. The debate is about whether or not the current independent study law meets the constitutional standard of a quality education.
This decision is a perpetuation of the myth that certification is a necessary component of a quality education and without certification a quality education cannot be had.
That's what all the outcry is about. People who obey the law are being told the law will change and they can no longer continue doing what they have legally done all along. They are also angry because they are being punished for the crime of educational neglect that they have not committed. |
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"Knowing where to find information isn't enough. If you don't know the material, how can you assume you know enough to find the right material? Or to understand the material that you need to teach?
You can't pick and choose which laws to obey, or you'd be acting like an illegal immigrant. Will you teach selective defiance of the law, too?"
Where did you get the idea I was breaking any laws? An illegal alien, really? I went through the charter school because I wanted to make sure I was following all the rules. The California standards were used as the minimum in my cirriculum, and my oldest son ended up skipping a grade under my watch. The teachers at the charter school required that I document the number of hours per day and submit an educational plan. Your assumptions that I was reckless in my homeschooling are just insulting.
My reasons for homeschooling were entirely academic, not religious. And all my children excel in math and science, so don't you worry about them soaking up your tax money.
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-------In California, home schooling must be performed by a state-credentialed tutor.-------
Most of those home schooling their children are far more educated than CA public school teachers. CA’s public schools are an abysmal failure and the teachers union simply wants to maintain control of the kids and receive the taxpayer funding for them. 50% of CA seniors cannot pass an 8th grade exit exam or understand the arguments being made on an editorial page. Kids were better educated in the early 1900’s than they are now and for a fraction of the cost. Some stamped paper by the state doesn’t make one a teacher nor does it disqualify them.
Some sniveling leftist not long ago commented that he just wants to be left alone. Well, his wannabe fascist leftist brethren are the ones routinely telling everyone what they can and cannot due; no smoking here or there, no teaching your own kids, no tag or dodge ball for kids- only playing with dolls is allowed, no praying in school- unless you’re a muslim- liberals are afraid they’ll cut off their heads, no public displays of Christianity- muslim foot baths in a crescent shape is absolutely permissible, after all, the muslims will cut off the leftist queeers head if they object to any of their demands.
This ruling is just more evidence that we’re living through the Age of Stupidity. To say that parents don’t have a constitutional right to homeschool is patently absurd. How does a dimwit come to this conclusion? Because it’s not stated in the Constitution? Does it state whether parents have a constitutional right to feed their children? If not, is it now the states duty? The liberal mind is a wasteland. |
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"others who do it differently than you."
If people are doing something different, they should call it something different. |
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Change 3 options to 4. Sorry. |
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There are actually 3 options in CA. To compare all of them in detail go to:
http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=CA
Many homeschoolers operate through a satellite program as stated by law and do not need certification to do so, neither do they need to attend a private school.
I think a lot of people do not understand the distinctions between the 3 and assume there are only 2 options based on the court's opinion.
Either way, homeschoolers should also see the bright side of this. It is theoretically possible the appeals process could ultimately result in deregulating homeschooling further in the state of CA. I'm not betting the farm on it, but sometimes that happens and that's how some hoemschsoolers have won further freedoms in other states. |
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All of this discussion is well and good.
My only contribution to this was the Court opinion. It is not my premise, my hypothesis, or my political point of view. I explained the Court opinion, as it is.
In California, home schooling must be performed by a state-credentialed tutor. If that is antithetical to your personal beliefs, you have two choices: (a) send your kid to a public or approved private school, while you take actionto change the law; or (b) move out of California and into a state that permits unregulated home schooling.
It's not all that difficult to understand. That's not my view, it's the law.
What is difficult to understand is that folks who claim to be law-abiding citizens feel free to teach their kids to selectively obey the law.
In my case, I was a bulldog on the school administrators' and teachers' legs, continually monitoring the situation, and ***articulating*** my views to other parents and taxpayers.
You accomplish nothing by standing back and taking shots, without fully and actively participating. |
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===Classical Education===
Classical education has two distinct camps. They can be integrated as much as the teacher prefers. Both have a strong preference for first source materials and use primarily Western Classics (Also called the Western Canon, or the Common Book of the Western World.) Both can include the study of "dead" languages (Hebrew, Classical or Biblical Greek, and Latin) although some are content with good English translations of Classic works.
Groups A
Characterized by the Trivium. The 3 stages have many terms. Stage 1 Grammar (facts) stage 2 Logic (cause and effect) stage 3 Rhetoric (application.) History is studied chronologically. Logic is studied formally, and Science is studied with both experimentation, biographies, and original writings of the greatest minds. Classic works from masters throughout Western Civilization in all Eras are studied. Often History, Geography, Science and Literature are integrated into a more unit study approach.
Group B
Characterized by the Mentor Model and sometimes called a "Statesmen" education. Morals, virtue, and character are emphasized above all. In the early years children are allowed to follow their interests and learn good character and right and wrong while developing a strong work ethic. The middle years are when a teacher begins inspiring students by reading classic works by the best minds on the subjects and entering into apprenticeship situations with masters of certain skills. Finally, in the later years the students are mentored in apprenticeships in entrepreneurial situations for their future leadership roles and professional pursuits. Think Thomas Jefferson.
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===Unit Study Approach===
Typically these people integrate studies based on an era, historical event, person, character trait, technological development, or historical person. For example, if the Depression is the core of the unit study math, literature, science, history, economics, and writing will hinge on different elements of the Great Depression. This gives the student multidimensional understanding. Each child is given different assignments based on ability, but all study the same core theme.
===Living Books Approach===
The best literature and writings on each subject are used. Think of it this way, instead of reading from a distilled over simplified textbook on, say, the Civil War, these teachers have their students read several of the books about the Civil War that an author of a textbook would read preparing to write the textbook. Now, think of doing that for science, history, economics, literature, art, etc. This crowd is also known for nature studies “in the field.” They typically use narration by the child of what he/she just learned to increase a child's attention span in the early years.
===Principle Approach===
1. Research the topic by looking up terms in all applicable reference books including the one that is the center of their faith or philosophy.
2. Reason through the material looking for the underlying principles.
3. Relate the information you have found through research and reason and apply it to your life.
4. Record your findings in a logical systematic and persuasive format.
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Eight Different Approaches to Education in the Homeschool Community
Most homeschoolers use a combination of these approaches.
===Traditional School Approach===
Typically uses prepackaged curriculum with a Scope and Sequence educational philosophy. Their daily and yearly schedules usually follow the 6 hour days of institutional settings and a 180 day school year with the summer off. Grading systems like those used in traditional school settings are the norm and aged grades mimic schools. Textbooks and workbooks are their primary texts. Fill in the blank and multiple choice are characteristic of this crowd. Children are generally taught the same information around the same age and proceed along the same path, although some may do so faster or slower. Think institutional school.
===Unschooling Approaches A and B===
This is a broad term that applies to two distinct groups.
Group A
Generally believes children are wired for learning, and their job as teachers is to avoid interfering with the learning process. Their job is also to provide access to learning (books, lab equipment, etc.) guided by the child’s interests. They do not necessarily think children need to be “taught” outside of answering questions and teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. Think Thomas Edison.
Group B
Designs every learning experience to answer the question, “When am I going to use this in real life?” by actually using almost exclusively real life, hands on, applied situations and projects. Only the real world here. They tend to be systematic and adult directed but are very careful to take additional time to follow a child’s interests some too.
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Since everyone here seems to be in agreement that the current system is in need of repair, let's ask ourselves if we need more of the same, or if we need to try something different.
The next post is what I was talking about in my surgeon argument post when I said few teachers are educated in different forms of education.
I think they are one of many factors that have made homeschooling successful as a whole.
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One common cultural assumption is that the ability to teach children is a highly specialized skill like being a surgeon. Surgery is an extremely highly specialized skill. I argue (along with study after study) educating minors is not.
I personally know 5 certified teachers who taught in both private and public schools and they now hoemschool. ALL of them will tell you getting a teaching certificate is not the same as learning how to teach children effectively. All of them have also said their teaching training is a hurdle to be overcome in homeschooling their children. They said it is primarily classroom management and one said her education spent time teaching teachers how to get additional taxpayer funds through grants.
There is little learning about educational philosophy in schools of education according to these women. As a matter of fact four of the five began mimicking school at home as they began homeschooling and it quickly became a problem. All four of them had to seek out help within the homeschool community to have a vibrant successful homeschooling experience. The other teacher was familiar with different philosophies and methods from her private teaching days and had no problems starting her homeschool experience. |
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I was pointing out philosophical and legal differences that are at the CORE of legal decisions directly related to this matter based on 20+ years of legal precedent. Case after case won by HSLDA is based on these VERY important distinctions.
Assuming someone is attacking your choice when they are simply clarifying the central legal argument that has solved this problem is unfair and unnecessary.
Furthermore, the taxpayers of the US make a compelling argument that anything funded by them (staff, facilities, materials, etc.) should have some sort of accountability to them. Again, the core legal argument for deregulating homeschooling is PARENTS provide ALL instruction, materials, and facilities at their OWN expense, so government, on behalf of the taxpayers, has no say in the matter.
Remember, school choice, vouchers, merit pay for teachers, taxpayer funding and the like are all extensions of that same argument. Once the taxpayers put money into the system, the government schools have the responsibility to give an accounting.
There is also the argument that the schools must be accountable to the PARENTS (not the State) for what the schools are doing with their children. So, the government is supposed to oversee quality instruction is happening. Now, the flip side in regards to homeschoolers, is parents ALREADY know what they are doing with their own children, so there is no reason for an accounting.
Ideas have consequences. Words have meaning. We have to be careful that we are living consistently with what we argue and fight for. In court cases terminology MATTERS and underlying arguments MATTER.
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"It does not benefit those fighting for this right by tearing down others who do it differently than you."
I don't see how my statements,
"Most of us are ALL FOR education choice and charter schools are an EXCELLENT development EVERY parent should get to choose from, but no one enrolled in one is a homeschooler.
Community schools (private schools with 2 day instruction by teachers and 3 days of completing assignments at home under parental supervision) is not homeschooling either. It's a GREAT option EVERYONE should have access to, but it is not homeschooling."
could rationally be labeled as "tearing down" people who do it differently. It actually promoted the expansion of these options to more people.
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....my sister-in-law who is a home schooler. She provides a website to sign a petition. Those of you in CA, please go to the website, click on the check mark to be directed to the petition supporting homeschooling.
Much appreciated...
The website is: http://www.HSLDA.org |
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Keep these things in mind ...
The government has the right to intervene in the parent-child relationship. The people, through their legislature, have determined when such interventions are necessary or acceptable. The people, through their legislature, can determine how to modify existing interventions.
Shannon, long before you or I were born, the people of the United States (and of California), decided that it would be a very good thing to educate children, though at least high school, so they could help to continue our country's (and California's) amazing progress and leadership, particularly in the technical, scientific, and agricultural areas.
So, certain minimum subject matter must be taught. It must be taught in a certain way, so that the People (all of us) can be assured that this minimum subject matter is being taught in a relatively uniform and measurable way.
The system is not designed to teach a certain philosophical or religious view, and teaching subjects and academic levels beyond the agreed-upon norm is *optional*.
I can see -- and understand -- your outrage with the abusive way unions have hijacked the public schools and, in some places, the property tax system, to their benefit. The administrators and school boards are in on that bandwagon, too.
Often the kids get left out of the rewards, even if they are used as the sword and the shield in the fights over how to divide our money. I agree.
However, you cannot pick and choose which laws you will obey and which laws you will not.
If you do, you are operating at the level of an illegal alien, or a bank robbery who uses turn signals during his get-away. You are teaching your children that it is perfectly fine to selectively obey laws.
If you don't like the system, write your State legislator, or join a school board.
Then, your kids will learn the Constitutional way of changing the law and participating in the system.
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A California "charter school" *must* be, among other things, part of California’s public school system.
This has been California law for a long time. If a school does not meet the established legal requirements, it is not a charter school.
"Legal" schooling must provide minimum hours of instruction, employ teachers of specified training, and cover prescribed subjects of instruction.
Home schooling is *not* prohibited in California. Home schooling by a qualified tutor, including a parent, who holds a valid state teaching credential.
I've seen first hand how a bright, enthusiastic child can have his spirit crushed by teachers. In no way am I coming to their defense, so get that straight.
However, as I noted at the end of my comment, I am tired of interviewing idiots, i.e., people whose knowledge was so lacking that they were incapable of employment.
Shannon, you proclaim "There is no teacher out there who can do a better job educating my kids than I can. No I do not have a college degree, but I know where to find the information and support."
You don't even realize how wrong you are. You don't know what or how much you don't know, and are filling in the gaps with wishful thinking.
Would you say that about your child's surgeon?
Knowing where to find information isn't enough. If you don't know the material, how can you assume you know enough to find the right material? Or to understand the material that you need to teach?
You can't pick and choose which laws to obey, or you'd be acting like an illegal immigrant. Will you teach selective defiance of the law, too?
Children who are lost in math and science are a burden on society. Do not compound the problem. |
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The charter school my kids were "enrolled" in provided texts, materials, and classes in a variety of different subjects. I choose if they went to these classes and which ones they went to. The classes were only once a week. We had a meeting with our educational coordinator once a month. His job was to provide me with support, materials, and to document the kids progress. 95% of their instruction was done at home, so yes it was homeschooling. There is no way I could have jumped through all the legal hurtles to homeschool without the charter school.
Perhaps you didn't mean to come off as a "home schooling elitist", but you did. It does not benefit those fighting for this right by tearing down others who do it differently than you. |
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Shannon wrote:
"Most homeschooling families in my area are enrolled in a charter school. The school provides texts and materials and mandates that the students be tested at the end of each year. The same tests the public schools take."
Philosophically and in my state of AZ, legally, this is not homeschooling. It is actually an extension of mhu cao's argument that children need a professional teacher involved in their education.
The essential arguments in this issue are a)parents, regardless of education level and teacher certification, are capable of educating their children b)parents are capable of selecting and teaching curriculum in core subjects themselves WITHOUT government intrusion, regulation, or funds (tax dollars.)
Now we have people using the term when they are using government facilities, staff, and funds.
Most of us are all for education choice and charter schools are an excellent development every parent should get to choose from, but no one enrolled in one is a homeschooler.
Community schools (private schools with 2 day instruction by teachers and 3 days of completing assignments at home under parental supervision) is not homeschooling either. It's a great option everyone should have access to, but it is not homeschooling. |
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I'm telling you, it's all about the unions. The kids need to be in class for 30 minutes for the school to get their funding, for that student. After 30 minutes, they could care less. My daughter is in first grade, and she knows the scoop. After 30 minutes she goes to the nurse, the nurse calls me and says "Come get your daughter right now!" If I refuse to get her, because I know she is not sick, the nurse will begin to call the emergency contacts in her record. |
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This is what you get from the state that attempted to legitimize ebonics because they felt the black kids were too dumb to learn proper English; the soft bigotry of low expectations.
I'm sure the CA gayhadists pushed for this. The perverts in academia want to make sure they get to teach our children about homosexuality and deviancy. These degenerates want to brain wash the kids much in the same way the USSR did.
This has nothing to do with what's best for the children. This is also why liberals are against vouchers, they want to ensure the kids are properly dumbed down and neutered. They also [here in CA] receive $10,000 per student in public schools so these degenerates are invested in keeping the seats full- even with children of illegals- in order to receive their taxpayer funds; offering a good education is the least of their concerns. Kids here roam the streets no later than 2 pm; the teachers teach less but each year they demand more tax dollars. The LAUSD/NEA is a criminal cartel that should be investigated. The local stories regarding their corruption leaves one wondering how many of these administrators/teachers aren’t in prison. |
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This under 35 crowd is the offspring of the me-generation. We were sent to daycare at a few weeks old and then sent to public school. After school we were supervised by MTV. We learned very early on that our parents and teachers would prefer if we just shut-up or went away.
I cannot name one teacher that I ever had that took notice of me or seemed to care if I even showed up to class.
Your assertions that the schools have produced crap is harsh, but correct. The schools cannot take the entire blame, our parents played a larger role in the outcome.
My generation refuses to follow in our parents footsteps. We spend quality time with our children and if financially possible, then we homeschool. We recognize that this time with our kids will be gone very soon and we do our best to soak up every moment.
There is no teacher out there who can do a better job educating my kids than I can. No I do not have a college degree, but I know where to find the information and support. Most homeschooling families in my area are enrolled in a charter school. The school provides texts and materials and mandates that the students be tested at the end of each year. The same tests the public schools take. |
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I read this article this morning and my blood began to boil. I spent three years homeschooling and wish I did not have to stop. There are many stories I could tell about how kids thrive in the homeschooling environment. In CA, Hickman Charter School (and their homeschooling program) is one of the highest rated schools in the state. I can't believe the state would put this school and others like it in jeopardy.
What it comes down to, and what the article in my paper left out, is that this is all about the teachers union. The educational system is in the state that it is because of the unions. I am provided daily with examples of how little regard they have for the students or their educations. It is all about their job security and benefits. As flawed as NCLB is, it is shinning a bright light on the fact that MORE MONEY does not create smarter kids. Little of this money actually finds it's way into the classroom and certainly has not attracted quality teachers. |
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Your posts make the argument that certification is required to produce a quality education. Then you post your assessment of products of the current certified system with this:
"I've interviewed hundreds of people over the years,from high school graduates to engineers with graduate degrees. Over the past 15 years, our schools have produced pure crap.
This under 35 crowd is more entwined with self-esteem, social and religious bull than they are math, science, grammar, and basic social skills."
Your underlying assumption is that anyone taught by an uncertified person can ONLY produce worse results, even though there is evidence to the contrary.
How is more of the same going to fix the problem?
You mention accountability, but there is little of that in real terms in the current public system. What exactly did you have in mind and do you plan to hold all forms of education to the same standard? Who should decide what those standards are? Who decides who gets to decide? How exactly will that evaluation process happen and by whom? Who will do what when the standards are not met? |
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One way Homeschool Legal Defense Association wins cases that deregulate homeschooling state by state is comparing the test scores of students in heavily regulated and monitored states and those in completely deregulated states. There is no statistical difference.
They also compare education levels in homeschooling parents. Again, there is not statistical difference. They also compare score by parents with certification to whose without. No difference.
In October 2007 the independent research organization The Fraser Institute released a study of American and Canadian homeschoolers. They found something odd:
"The evidence is particularly interesting for students who traditionally fall through the cracks of the public school system. Poorly educated parents who choose to teach their children at home produce better academic results for their children than the public schools do...."
" One study we reviewed found that students taught at home by mothers that never finished high school scored 55 percentage points higher than public school students from families with comparable education levels...."
"The research shows that the level of education of a child's parent, gender of the child, and income of family has less to do with a child's academic achievement than it does in public school."
Claudia Hepburn Director of the Education Policy with The Fraser Institute and co-author of the study.
I have never met or heard of a homeschooler who never graduated from high school, so they are likely a VERY small percentage of the homeschooling population. It's definitely food for thought though.
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The real issue is whether Californians are now willing to accept that all children "belong" to the State and are no longer the responsibility of parents. We have been so "slowly cooked" with socialist thinking in the last hundred years that freedoms and liberties widely enjoyed by our forefathers seem foreign and unrealistic to us today. We presume it is only "natural" for the State to regulate not only the required outcome of a standard but the "methods" being used well. Under a collectivistic state this is logical, but not under our Constitutional Republic.
The State can certainly mandate that children be educated - setting forth a well-defined broad and general standard of basic skills. But it is socialism/communism/fascism that dictates HOW this standard must be met. To require that only State approved (credentialed) teachers educate our children is a gross violation of our personal liberty.
Empirical evidence has shown that non-credentialed persons are producing well educated students, many of whom out perform public school students. Wouldn’t it be more logical and advantageous to the "social good" to close down failing public schools rather than prohibit homeschooling?
Competition and freedom of choice historically produced a highly educated US populace. During the 1700s when many were homeschooled, almost everyone in the country was able to read and write. Compare the textbooks used during the 1800s to see how difficult and sophisticated the material was then compared to now. It is eye opening to realize just how “dumbed down” our educational system has become.
So why is the State promoting public school while aggressively trying to restrict homeschooling? The true issue is over control. The State believes that it owns us, including our children, and has the right to mold our views to conform to its agenda.
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Homeschooling is being outlawed in Germany today because the State says it does not want minority views to be nurtured along with the views promoted by the State. Those not complying are having their children taken away and made wards of the state. Many German families are at this very moment fleeing the country and resettling their families elsewhere where educational freedom still exists.
To accept such an oppressive policy in California is outrageous. Wake up Americans and fight for our freedoms! The State does not own us or our children…
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The real issue is whether Californians are now willing to accept that all children "belong" to the State and are no longer the responsibility of parents. We have been so "slowly cooked" with socialist thinking in the last hundred years that freedoms and liberties widely enjoyed by our forefathers seem foreign and unrealistic to us today. We presume it is only "natural" for the State to regulate not only the required outcome of a standard but the "methods" being used well. Under a collectivistic state this is logical, but not under our Constitutional Republic.
The State can certainly mandate that children be educated - setting forth a well-defined broad and general standard of basic skills. But it is socialism/communism/fascism that dictates HOW this standard must be met. To require that only State approved (credentialed) teachers educate our children is a gross violation of our personal liberty.
Empirical evidence has shown that non-credentialed persons are producing well educated students, many of whom out perform public school students. Wouldn’t it be more logical and advantageous to the "social good" to close down failing public schools rather than prohibit homeschooling?
Competition and freedom of choice historically produced a highly educated US populace. During the 1700s when many were homeschooled, almost everyone in the country was able to read and write. Compare the textbooks used during the 1800s to see how difficult and sophisticated the material was then compared to now. It is eye opening to realize just how “dumbed down” our educational system has become.
So why is the State promoting public school while aggressively trying to restrict homeschooling? The true issue is over control. The State believes that it owns us, including our children, and has the right to mold our views to conform to its agenda.
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(cont)
Thirdly, private school teachers are not unionized -- they have individual contracts with the school. So, when the state teachers would go on strike, private school classes continued. Of course, private school teachers have no reason to strike, because they are paid better than public school teachers.
Fourthly, the difference in classroom standards between private and public schools is astonishing. Public school classrooms are anarchy -- iPods, kids talking and texting on cell phones, walking around, talking to each other, leaving the classroom, talking back to the teacher, with the teacher powerless to exert any disciplinary measures. Private school classrooms? Quiet, attentive, respectful. Why? Troublemakers are not tolerated. Disrespect a teacher? You're nothing but a memory -- no "negotiation", no appeal, no lawsuits. Private institutions could turf out whoever they pleased, at their sole discretion. Parents who were paying to have their kid educated simply would not allow ill-raised children to interfere.
If you're a parent, you have a choice of (private) schools. If you don't like a school for whatever reason, you're completely free to go out and find one that you like better, or work with the administration to try to make improvements.
This is the free market in education in action. What's in the way of the same system in the US? |
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While it's slightly off-topic, please allow me to enter the fray with a little anecdote.
Before we returned to the US, my daughter attended private schools in Australia from K to 12. She's now in University and easily thrashes (in an academic sense) her peers who attended public schools in the US. For example, chemistry that is being taught to 1st & 2nd year science students in University is somewhat below the level my daughter took in 11th grade in Australia. Let me point out some what I see are the differences between my daughter's education and what I understand is going on here.
Firstly, in Australia, there are state-wide standard examinations after 10th and 12th grades. Private schools compete for students, in part, on their results in the examinations (public schools are not well represented in the list of top schools). Students bring to the private school some of their state (taxpayer) funding as well as separate tuition fees paid by the parents. So better examination outcomes mean more students, which means more revenue to the school. Some of the more successful private schools are lavish by American standards, with very low student/teacher ratios, eye-popping facilities and top-notch teachers. Of course, those schools are always heavily represented at the top of the examination results.
Secondly, because private schools depend on the support of parents through tuition fees and voluntary contributions to capital funds, parents can be very influential. On one occasion, I went to the principal of the school with a complaint about a teacher. I made the case that the teacher's behavior toward my daughter was inconsistent with the school's stated philosophy. The principal investigated, and within a week, that teacher was gone. For this reason, teachers dare not attempt any type of political indoctrination -- too many complaints from parents certainly would mean unemployment.
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can also be a highly trained surgeon, or an accomplished business executive, or a highly respected author. But, in either of those scenarios and regardless of how much more qualified the tutor may be than any credentialed teacher or tutor, they would not be allowed to home school their children in California without first subjecting themselves to the state system.
Apparently, this decision was based on a specific case and was designed to make sure home schooling is not used as an excuse to simply avoid educating children. I agree that this is an honorable goal. But like most liberal activism, the lofty goal gets lost in the totalitarian controls.
True, a percentage of home schooling families are not educating their children. But it's also true that state education systems are failing in this area as well. Compare the results. Which system is doing more good and which is doing more harm?
No system is going to be able guarantee 100% effectiveness. But if home schooling as a whole has proven itself to be a viable - even superior - alternative to state education (does anyone doubt this?), doesn't it behoove society to allow that alternative the freedom to continue? And how silly is it that the lesser has the audacity to regulate the greater?!?!?
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What is the percentage of homeschooled students who can't read compared to the percentage of public/private schooled students who can't read?
Those homeschooling parents may be uncredentialed, but they seem to be more effective. Yes, there are many reasons, but those don't change the results. And the results kind of negate the court's argument that professionals can educate better than parents. |
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Even in the private schools, the teachers are liberal. Many are on political soap boxes. My kids are taught that Hitler wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't been a conservative. A few teachers outright refused to talk about Stalin's crimes, or they just didn't know. My kids repeatedly hear that global warming is caused by republican policies. No alternative views presented. It doesn't end.
Math is the most troubling area. One teachder had my son "circle the bigger number" for True/False problems such as "12 < 4" rather than teach how to work the problem. When questioned I heard "I never did understand signs. After all, I am not a math teacher. It was just the opening the school had." I have yet to find a math teacher that actually graded homework and worked through mistakes with students, even a sample of mistakes. No wonder we are deficient at math. So, I paid for a math tutor for my college student. I also tell the man at my parking garage how much change he owes me from a $20 - for an $8 charge.
What kind of society do we create where we just don't care about the learning of the next generation? Public schools and credentialed teachers have failed us. I don't see that state credentials add value. Results are what matter. I defend a parents right to home school without credentials. |
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I must heartily disagree with your premise. First, home schoolers have been proven time and time again to be of significantly higher academic quality than their counterparts in either public or private schools. If you want to avoid interviewing idiots, do away with public schools, which are so mandated to indoctrinate our kids in the p.c. causes of the day that they have no time remaining to teach them math or science!
Second, this court came out of nowhere, in a confidential juvenile court case, and re-interpreted a statute that has been accepted by all sides as permitting home schooling under the private school exception for over 25 years! That is unacceptable. The legislature could have amended the statute to explicitly ban home schooling if they were not happy with that prior interpretation. It is not up to a court deciding a juvenile case, without even asking for briefing of the issues by home schooling advocates, to up and decide to completely change the law for 166,000 CA home schoolers. It's an outrageous, but typical, example, of unelected judges deciding how we are to live, rather than our elected legislature. Rather than forcing 166,000 home schoolers to move out of the state so that they can exercise their God-given rights to raise their children, how about if we just have those three judges move out? |
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You are attacking the wrong end of the beast. The Court decision approaches a particular question about the way the law was interpreted, given the actual facts of the original case.
You appear to be lashing out with a general dissatisfaction with the system at large. This Court decision had nothing to do with that.
Yes, there is a very big difference between an un-credentialed tutor and a teacher, whether or not that teacher indoctrinates. An un-credentialed tutor can be the village idiot. Would you want a surgeon who was "taught" by the equivalent of a 8th-grade drop out?
Your opinion may be that the indoctrinating teacher is the idiot, but at least they've passed qualification tests showing that, at one time, they knew the minimum required by the State.
Before you leap to the incorrect conclusion that I'm a teacher or an NEA supporter, understand that I am a consumer of our nation's educational system. I've interviewed hundreds of people over the years, from high school graduates to engineers with graduate degrees. Over the past 15 years, our schools have produced pure crap.
This under 35 crowd is more entwined with self-esteem, social and religious bull than they are math, science, grammar, and basic social skills.
Certain standards of quality must be met. I would challenge whether they really are, but that was not the issue before the court. The California Court only re-inforced existing law that whomever teaches the kids in the State must meet certain minimum qualifications.
Because I am tired of interviewing idiots, I must agree with the Court.
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IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN UN-CREDENTIALED TUTOR THAN A TEACHER THAT ONLY INDOCTRINATES? I WOULD WAGER THE CHILD WILL BE "TAUGHT" MORE WITHOUT THE CREDENTIALS THAN BY THOSE WITH, FOR ONE THING, HOME SCHOOLERS ARE TAUGHT BEYOND WHAT THE NEA SAYS PUBLIC SCHOOL CAN TEACH; PRIVATE SCHOOLS, CHURCH SCHOOLS, ARE ALL BETTER EDUCATED AND PREPARED TO FACE THE WORLD THAN THOSE COMING OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHERE THE FANCY SCHOOL IS THE ANSWER FOR EDUCATION.......I DON'T THINK SO!
BE IT KNOWN YOUNG PARENTS, THE NEA IS NOT YOUR FRIEND NOR YOUR CHILD'S FRIEND IN ANY MANNER OR IN ANY WAY..............THEY NEED TO BE ABOLISHED! COMMUNISTIC IN NATURE AND IN GOALS, YOU CAN EDUCATE YOURSELF IF YOU WILL ONLY TAKE THE TIME TO DO SO OF WHAT THEIR MISSION IS AND DO READ BETWEEN THE LINES..........QUESTION YOUR DISTRICT, YOU WILL GET 1% TRUTH OUT OF THEM AND 99% LIP SERVICE. |
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IT IS NOT JUST IN CA THAT PARENTS SEE THEIR CHILDREN BEING INDOCTRINATED INSTEAD OF "TAUGHT".
WYOMING - LOCK DOWNS, THE ONE SCHOOL, WHEN THE BELL RINGS AND THE CHILDREN ARE INSIDE, EVERYTHING IS LOCKED AND YOU ARE LOCKED AWAY FROM YOUR CHILDREN. IN CASE YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO BE EDUCATED, THIS IS HOW HITLER STARTED ITS FORWARD MARCH TO KILL OUT A CULTURE...........THE JEWS! HIGH SCHOOL, HERD THEM INTO SMALL ROOMS, COVER THE WINDOWS; THEY ARE TOLD WHAT TO SAY AND NOT TO SAY TO OTHERS BY THEIR TEACHERS, THEY ARE TOLD NOT TO TELL THEIR PARENTS WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE SCHOOL..............
BETTER GET READY, THERE ARE MORE AND MORE FEMA CAMPS GOING UP AND IF YOU THINK IT IS FOR PRISONERS, YEAH, BUT THE TYPE YOU THINK....THAT IS WHY THE PUSH FOR THE MEXICANS...THEY WILL KILL US FOR OUR GUNS, OUR OWN MILITIA WON'T...........PART OF AN ELABORATE PLAN I WOULD SAY AND FOR MANY YEARS I DID NOT BELIEVE IT, HOWEVER, A SPECIAL FORCES FATHER RELATED THIS TO SOME THREE YEARS AGO NOW............
FEAR THE NATION THAT FEARS YOUR GUN: THINK ABOUT IT AND THEN VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE THAT WILL WORK TO RESTORE OUR CONSTITUTION...TOO LATE NOW, RON AND MIKE ARE OUT........... |
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So, the kids are supposed to learn certain minimum things. The State can specify what those minimum things are and how it can be assured that the kids are getting that minimum information in an accountable way. The kids can always learn more or other things.
If the parents can receive tutor credentials, then they can home school. Otherwise, the kids need to be *in* a public or private school.
What probably set off most alarms was the enforcement teeth added by the Court. Criminal sanctions, court-ordered counseling, civil contempt, etc. A tough response, for sure, but the court wants to nip in the bud "Oprah as Home Schooling," or other slick attempts to skirt the law.
Concepts like "regular attendance," "in compliance with the Education Code," "habitual truant," "proof of enrollment," among others, do open the door for official abuse. That ought to be very troubling, given the way school boards, schools, and social services have formed their own brand of "conform-or-else" storm trooper mentality. This has no bearing on the Court decision, though.
I did find amusing the Court's statement that "[a] primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare." However, none of this was on the table.
If unhappy with this decision, the parents always have the option of moving out of California to a state that permits uncredentialed, unsupervised home schooling. |
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...the People's Republic of CA have gotten used to telling the powers that be to fold it five ways and stick it where the sun don't shine...
This will be no different...
We have an image as the land of fruits and nuts (well-earned, unfortunately), but you'd be surprised: there are a lot of conservatives out here. You'd be proud....
Reagan was a Californian. |
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No liberal facist here. More of a Bill of Rights fundamentalist. The California opinion is closer to "parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children in any random way."
I read the opinion. The facts of the case were particularly troubling, the parents' position was not supported by the law, and the Court reaffirmed existing case law.
The State has a compelling interest in having an educated, ordered society. The compulsory educational process is part of that scheme. The State has the right to establish certain subjects and to hold schools and students to minimum standards for those subjects.
The argument of whether the state is doing an effective job was not part of, and is not relevant for, this decision.
The parents have three options: (1) send the kids to public school; (2) send the kids to an approved private school; or (3) hire a private tutor who has been credentialed by the State. Option 3a is that either of the parents could undertake the tutor credentialing process, if they could demonstrate they were comparably qualified.
If enrolled in a school, the kids must actually attend. It is not enough for a school to "supervise" or "check" on the kids' progress, and it is not enough for some school district administrator to give his or her personal blessings on the arrangement.
Because there are alternatives to the compulsory *public* education, the parents cannot say that they are being forced to send their kids to a public school which is alien to their personal or religious views.
Frankly, parents do not have the absolute power over their kids, as they may believe. The State can and does trump all. I can confirm that it is not just a California phenomenon.
Now, had the Legislature given the option to home school by an uncredentialled tutor or parent, then the outcome might have been different.
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