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Thursday, July 09, 2009
Justice Ginsburg on Abortion as Population Control
Posted by: Olivia Offner at 4:19 PM
In an interview with The New York Times Magazine, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg discusses the concept of abortion as a way to control population growth, specifically of certain groups. Ginsburg, who was commenting on the role of women on the court and the nomination of Sonia Sotomayor, said "Reproductive choice has to be straightened out." She then went on to say, in response to a question about the availability of abortion for poor women and the case Harris v. McRae (in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions):
Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them. But when the court decided McRae, the case came out the other way. And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong.


View in ascending order View in descending order
vonryansexpress writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 4:37 PM
SS Camp follower Ruth?
She'd have been a mean one in a Nazi death camp.

'Kapo Ruth' would have been sending the disabled and the gypsies over to the right with aplomb.

What a loon.
Cicero writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 4:37 PM
Maybe she meant Gentiles.
;)
Big Sky Cowboy writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 4:43 PM
Ginsberg
Now which one of you is the undesirable population, we need more liberal dumbassss's in the court.
Exeye writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 4:44 PM
Makes the Chinese proud
And for those of you already born, there's soylent green.
MaCon writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 4:49 PM
Cicero: maybe
she means all who disagree with her.
Rich  writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 5:11 PM
wow!
truly amazing comments.
Cicero writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 5:17 PM
One thing's clear.
The bint is a raving feminist ideologue who believes that time is on the side of the twisted notion of progress she's embraced. Typical liberal in other words. Man, are the progressives in for a rude awakwening.

http://www.potsw.org/Lyrics/03art.htm#progress
Mac 777 writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 5:26 PM
Ginsberg echoes murderous intent of
PLANNED PARENTHOOD's notorious racist,occultist, Hitlerian disciple/eugenicist founder,MARGARET SANGER. In one of her numerous population control manifestos, Sanger proclaimed the purpose of PPUSA "the control,regulation,and eventual elimination" of ethnic and racial groups she called the planet's "human weeds". She was much in agreement
with Hitler who divided humanity into 3 groups: the Herren volk "masters";the Mediterranian "slaves";& the subhumans(jews;blacks;and slavs). The latter were to be exterminated. Maybe someone should ask Frau Ginsberg which category she thinks she's in, and which she would enslave/destroy.

Arthur McVarish, Houston
Big Sky Cowboy writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 5:48 PM
Ginsberg
Lets see she is white,how much you want to bet the white race is not the race she was talking about, anyone want to bet on which races she is talking about, minorities that vote lib I suggest you watch your back, someone doesn't have your best interest at heart.
K.G. writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 5:48 PM
I Cannot Provide a Link, But Not Too...
...long ago I heard a commentor say that it was education and career-oriented Jewish girls that were getting abortions at an alarming rate--maybe more than any other group.

Rich irony, huh, considering Ginsberg's ethnicity and comments.

vladimir estragon writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 6:18 PM
Excuse me
I hate to interrupt all the fun, but where does Ginsburg say that SHE is, or was, in favor of "abortion as population control"?
Stoic Patriot writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 6:38 PM
Growth in populations...
I take it that her remark about the purpose of Roe being to rid the world of undesirables would mean the eradication of liberalism. Really now, if the left is that self-loathing, suicide is a far-easier alternative. Stop trying to commit suicide vicariously through your children.
Cicero writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 6:41 PM
Blathermir
The language is difficult to parse here:

"there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of."

Concern from whom? Who's "we"?

I wouldn't be surprise to see the media press her to elaborate in the coming days.
The Plumber writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 7:04 PM
Stoic Patriot
I've been trying to talk self-loathing Leftists into committing suicide for two decades. The world is certainly better-off without looters and moochers. It hasn't worked yet.

Maybe I need to take the second half of the Dale Carnegie course.
Big Sky Cowboy writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 10:31 PM
vlad
I believe it is on the second line.
Laura61 writes: Thursday, July, 09, 2009 11:53 PM
She meant those on Medicaid
Check out those demographics, and you'll have your answer.
Dottie writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 8:31 AM
Not a Ginsburg fan....but
If that is the entire quote, she needs to be questioned on it. As another poster said, who is we? What Medicaid recipients is she talking about (minorities, less educated whites, those too dumb to use preventative birth control, etc)? IF that is not the entire qoute, I will have to find and read it.

Was she just thinking the Court looked at abortion as a form of population control and not her personally, or was it she and others she knew thought of it that way? It almost sounds like she thought it was a form of eugenics in the beginning until the Harper case and then she realized that was not it at all.

I'm not sure because the quote is not clear enough.
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 9:21 AM
Big Sky
"Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of."

You interpret that to mean that the speaker is in favor of using abortion to control population growth? I don't. Especially in light of the later line, "And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong." Note she doesn't say "My opinion was wrong," but "My perception was wrong." Pretty clearly, she was referring to her perception that OTHER PEOPLE thought abortion should be used to control population.
Dose of Reality writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 9:47 AM
Scary Thought
Sotomayor makes Ginsburg look like Einstein....
eddie too writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 10:33 AM
what part of "we" do you

find confusing estrogen?
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 10:41 AM
Grammar
There was concern that eddie two wasn't intelligent enough to express ideas on the internet.
Setrimacoky writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 11:10 AM
It does not take a genius...
to figure out what she is saying. You don't have to break out the sentence structure or try to decipher anything. Roe V Wade and Abortion as a policy in this country has always been about population control, especially unwanted population control. All you have to do is read history and understand the founder of Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger. She was a eugenicist and a racist. The "Elite" are too and always have been; and the irony is that they have strong control over the very people they aim to destroy (minorities, poor, downtrodden).
Cuban Pete writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 12:18 PM
There goes ol' Vlad again...
...straining at semantic gnats and swallowing the big animal whole.

Lefty lib mentality ala Ginsburg: If you can't rule 'em, kill 'em.
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:01 PM
Hermeneutics
There was concern that Cuban Pete had not had an original thought since April 25, 1986.
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:11 PM
How about quoting other parts of her
interview? Slanted crapola from the right, of course.

"Q: Let me ask you about the fight you waged for the courts to understand that pregnancy discrimination is a form of sex discrimination.

JUSTICE GINSBURG: I wrote about it a number of times. I litigated Captain Struck’s case about reproductive choice. [In 1972, Ginsburg represented Capt. Susan Struck, who became pregnant during her service in the Air Force. At the time, the Air Force automatically discharged any woman who became pregnant and told Captain Struck that she should have an abortion if she wanted to keep her job. The government changed the regulation before the Supreme Court could decide the case.] If the court could have seen Susan Struck’s case — this was the U.S. government, a U.S. Air Force post, offering abortions, in 1971, two years before Roe.

Q: And suggesting an abortion as the solution to Struck’s problem.

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Yes. Not only that, but it was available to her on the base. "

Gosh, a Republican government telling a woman she had to get an abortion? Gee whiz.
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:13 PM
More of what she actually said
Q: The case ties together themes of women’s equality and reproductive freedom. The court split those themes apart in Roe v. Wade. Do you see, as part of a future feminist legal wish list, repositioning Roe so that the right to abortion is rooted in the constitutional promise of sex equality?

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Oh, yes. I think it will be.

Q: If you were a lawyer again, what would you want to accomplish as a future feminist legal agenda?

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Reproductive choice has to be straightened out. There will never be a woman of means without choice anymore. That just seems to me so obvious. The states that had changed their abortion laws before Roe [to make abortion legal] are not going to change back. So we have a policy that affects only poor women, and it can never be otherwise, and I don’t know why this hasn’t been said more often.

Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:19 PM
KG
So, based on gossip, lies, whatever (you 'cannot Provide a Link', you disparage Jewish women? friggin anti-semite.
Bob Munck writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:22 PM
vladimir estragon 1:01 PM
"There was concern that Cuban Pete had not had an original thought since April 25, 1986."

He certainly is working that "straining at gnats" construction to death. He needs a new set of clichés.
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:30 PM
Cuban Pete
It appears that the two half brain cells have gotten together to try to go at you. Have no fear they will make fools of themselves as usual.
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:51 PM
Obsessions
It seems that Vlad has quite an obsession with child pornography. He mentions it is so many of his posts. Those who have no intelligence usually revert to stupidity and vulgarity. Someone who would dwell on this subject as he does surely has a problem. Hopefully he will be flagged enough that he will be gone from here as apparently he was from Powerline. It will be no loss that is for sure. I find his fascination with this subject a little unnerving to say the least.
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 1:56 PM
how was this a kiddie porn post?
you all disparage a SCOTUS justice for something she didn't even say, and you go off on porn tangents?
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 2:02 PM
Kaboom
Vlad always goes off to kiddy porn no matter what the subject. I find it disturbing don't you. Time to call him on it.
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 2:08 PM
I haven't read enough of anyone's posts
to reach any conclusion.

I don't think a photo of a 16 year old girl in a thong would be kiddie porn, though. My sons brought girls to our pool when they were 16 who wore thongs...it was hardly porn.
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 2:14 PM
Kaboom
I really do not think that kiddie porn has anything to do with this thread or any of the others here. It is just an expression Vlad likes to use to upset some. I agree most 16 year olds I would not consider kiddie porn either. For me I have no interest in Obama looking at a 16 year old or a 90 year old. I am far more concerned about what is happening in this country.
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 2:28 PM
well, as a lib
I think President Obama is doing a fine job. Kiddie porn is evil.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:17 PM
Ginsberg a eugenist!
Impeach that Beverly hillbilly Granny off the bench!!!! She is way past her prime if she ever had one.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:21 PM
Kaboom
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 2:08 PM
I haven't read enough of anyone's posts
to reach any conclusion.

I don't think a photo of a 16 year old girl in a thong would be kiddie porn, though. My sons brought girls to our pool when they were 16 who wore thongs...it was hardly porn.

Arch says.

Kaboom. What kind of parenting allows thongery at the age of 16? Are you serious in admitting you condoned this social behavior amongst your teens?
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:24 PM
Arch
You must realize who Kaboom is.
Dose of Reality writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:42 PM
KaBust
So Ginsburg is admitting Roe V Wade is flawed in reference to it's (alleged) consititutional basis and original ruling as a right to privacy issue. She now wants to try and correct it by making it a gender rights issue....

If R v W is/was good law, why change the (alleged) constitutional basis for it?

Only liberals want to take the words another liberal actually says and try to tell you they really meant something else...
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:43 PM
Diane
"It seems that Vlad has quite an obsession with child pornography. He mentions it is so many of his posts."

Projection. Arch is the pornographer, and you his enabler.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:45 PM
Diane
Diane writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:24 PM
Arch
You must realize who Kaboom is.

Arch says

I have no idea except he appears amoral!
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:52 PM
Vlad
You are one sick dude. It seems you have child pornography on the mind and I find that very distressing. Perhaps you can find another place that is more appropriate for you to spout that drivel. Most here find you annoying, I find you despicable at best. Your constant references to child pornography is disturbing to say the least.
I am sure many think as I do.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:53 PM
Vlad/Lucky
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:43 PM
Diane
"It seems that Vlad has quite an obsession with child pornography. He mentions it is so many of his posts."

Projection. Arch is the pornographer, and you his enabler

Arch says

Vlad/Lucky Pozzo. I have offered forgiveness should you repent and apologize for your lie.
I see the factual reality of my exposing and proof of your lie is not enough so it continues!!!
You will never acquire credibility here so long as you cling to your egotistic pride. Even when the truth has blown a hole through your soul.
SJA writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:57 PM
Arch
I am off. I will leave Vlad in your capable hands.
K.G. writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:57 PM
No, Kaboom, You Race Baiter
I am not an anti-semite and neither was the commentor who reported on the stats. I seems to remember that the commentor was a Jew lamenting the dwindling of the Jewish population....

...as would we all, if it's true.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:07 PM
Diane
Diane writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 3:57 PM
Arch
I am off. I will leave Vlad in your capable hands.

Arch says.

See you posting later Diane!
Kaboom writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:19 PM
KG
You have no source for your claim. Period. If there are fewer jewish folks, it is because many are atheists or marrying outside their religion.



vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:44 PM
Diane
"Your constant references to child pornography is disturbing to say the least."

Good! Your constant references to me as a liar and denying that my son is serving our country is equally disturbing. Your enabling of a guy who posts pornography about fisting my daughter - your inability to hold him accountable for it - topped off by your encouraging other people to treat him as a legitimate voice - is even more disturbing. If I am dissing the troops, as you keep saying, then you are a child molester. I'm sorry if that disturbs you, but you started this.
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:46 PM
Arch
"I have offered forgiveness should you repent and apologize for your lie."

If you apologize for your lies about me and your pornography about my daughter, God will probably forgive you, but I won't.
arch writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:53 PM
Vlad
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:46 PM
Arch
"I have offered forgiveness should you repent and apologize for your lie."

If you apologize for your lies about me and your pornography about my daughter, God will probably forgive you, but I won't.

Arch says

Vlad you are sadly mistaken that I ever singled out you personally in my comments. Read the quote!
arch writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:13 AM
Arch nails Vlad in filthy lie
Vlad/Lucky Pozzo. I have nailed you committing a lie right here on townhall. Here it is for everyone to see. Vlad claims everyone is lying about him. Well let us see who the actual liar really is Hmmmmmm!






vladimir estragon writes: Tuesday, June, 23, 2009 10:14 AM
Arch
"You got pegged for that by the impeccable Roy Rogers and then admitted it."

Lucky Pozzo is an internet buddy of mine. We hooked up years ago, with a shared taste for right-wing lunacy. He went off to a right-wing site and I went over to Powerline, and we would share stories. When Powerline kicked me out, he created his own Samuel Beckett moniker there. He wasn't a sock puppet, he wasn't "pegged" for anything by the child molesting Roy Rogers, and neither he nor I admitted anything.

Lucky and I even had a falling out when I found out he had identified my son's unit when he was posted to Afghanistan. I learned long ago not to reveal any personal information on sites populated by half-civilized right-wing knuckle draggers. That's probably where you and the onanist Roy Rogers got the idea that I didn't know about things that a Marine's father should know, because I won't play your stupid little swinging Richard games.

Arch says now read this thread
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ZNOLZQt1WR8J:www.plnews forum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/47510/P225/+But+Skips ailing+wasn%E2%80%99t+referring+to+a+neighbor%E2%80%99s+son +killed+by+a+roadside+bomb+in+Iraq,+and+Vlad+was.&cd=2&hl=e n&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
directly from the cached archives of Powerlinblogforum.com. Vlad is posting under the moniker of Lucky Pozzo and stupidly refers to a 2 1/2 year old post by valdimir estrogan as his. Roy Rogers nails him for it. Vlad is a liar out and out.
Come on now Vlad. Explain your lie. How do you claim a post by Vlad is yours when posting as Lucky Pozzo? Explain that lie for us all!!
kayann writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:29 AM
Misleading, as usual
Where in that comment is Ginsberg advocating for population control, and isn't that your goal here Olivia, to implicate Ginsberg of just that?

It is frankly BREATHTAKING how the rightwing shills here use their soap box to misinform their indoctrinated. You don't even try to hide it anymore, and why should you? The indoctrinated automatons won't question a single lie or suspiciously malicious rant.

And what is the bottom line here, Olivia? Is it to just continue the fruitless rampage against a woman's right to choose by muddying it up with implied population control? You are lower than Coulter if that is even possible.
Julie writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:30 AM
Arch,
It was always apparent that Vlad is a freak of some sort. Now we know. I expect that we'll hear plenty more from Vlad, under some new name.
arch writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:39 AM
Julie. Vlad is proven liar. No doubt.
Julie writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:30 AM
Arch,
It was always apparent that Vlad is a freak of some sort. Now we know. I expect that we'll hear plenty more from Vlad, under some new name

Arch says

Julie. I am glad to inform you and others to keep everyone from taking any insults from a proven liar!! Each time Vlad/Lucky Pozzo shrieks out that someone is a liar, I just cringe with disgust. I ask him to repent and apologize and he says never! So be it!!
Dottie writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 12:51 PM
chuckling
Wow...what happened to the thread?

Anyway, kayann, I have to laugh at your......uh......righteous indignation.

You think the left is not engaged in an all out propaganda war? Give me a break. Ginsburg is not clear in what she says, and as someone who is supposed to be so educated, I am surprised by her sloppy delivery.

While I agree with you that she is most likely not advocating eugenics...she is not clear in what she is saying. She also admits there are groups "we" don't want reproducing too, isn't she? OR is the "we" somebody else? If so, she should have been a little more careful in her use of the pronoun in that sentence.
RonnaRonna writes: Saturday, July, 11, 2009 1:40 PM
Abortion should not be acceptable in any
form, but a good argument for it would be if it only pertained to Liberal offspring.
arch writes: Sunday, July, 12, 2009 11:27 PM
Vlad! Apologize soon!!
vladimir estragon writes: Friday, July, 10, 2009 4:46 PM
Arch
"I have offered forgiveness should you repent and apologize for your lie."

If you apologize for your lies about me and your pornography about my daughter, God will probably forgive you, but I won't.

Arch says.

Vlad. The only thing wrong with your asking me to apologize for lies is that I never told any! Where as you have been proven by me to have told a whopper of a lie. Do you see the error in your logic? Vlad = proven liar. Arch = not a proven liar. Everyone here knows it. Why don't you?
arch writes: Sunday, July, 12, 2009 11:31 PM
Here is my proof Vlad!!
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ZNOLZQt1WR8J:www.plnews forum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/47510/P225/+But+Skips ailing+wasn%E2%80%99t+referring+to+a+neighbor%E2%80%99s+son +killed+by+a+roadside+bomb+in+Iraq,+and+Vlad+was.&cd=2&hl=e n&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Arch says

Now read this whopper told by Vlad right here on townhall:

vladimir estragon writes: Tuesday, June, 23, 2009 10:14 AM
Arch
"You got pegged for that by the impeccable Roy Rogers and then admitted it."

Lucky Pozzo is an internet buddy of mine. We hooked up years ago, with a shared taste for right-wing lunacy. He went off to a right-wing site and I went over to Powerline, and we would share stories. When Powerline kicked me out, he created his own Samuel Beckett moniker there. He wasn't a sock puppet, he wasn't "pegged" for anything by the child molesting Roy Rogers, and neither he nor I admitted anything.

Lucky and I even had a falling out when I found out he had identified my son's unit when he was posted to Afghanistan. I learned long ago not to reveal any personal information on sites populated by half-civilized right-wing knuckle draggers. That's probably where you and the onanist Roy Rogers got the idea that I didn't know about things that a Marine's father should know, because I won't play your stupid little swinging Richard games.

Of course, you know all of this already, don't you? You've read it all, right? So tell me, what outfit was my son in when he was in Afghanistan?
ESC111 writes: Thursday, July, 30, 2009 2:21 PM
I don't understand
How can abortion be justified as acceptable way population control These are human lives we are talkin about, but i guess when the government commits murder they can just call it "population control". It's wrong and unethiical.
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