Thursday, April 19, 2007
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On Abortion: Rudy Criticized Pope John Paul II / Defended Clinton
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Posted by:
Matt Lewis at
11:52 AM
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Yesterday, former Mayor Rudy Giuliani praised the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the ban on partial-birth abortion. As many pointed out, this was a reversal of his previous position.
In the past, Giuliani not only supported partial-birth abortion -- he opposed the Catholic Church's involvement in the issue. For example, in 1996, then-Mayor Giuliani got into a public dispute over the issue with Pope John Paul II.
Here's the story: After President Clinton vetoed a ban on partial-birth abortions, Pope John Paul II condemned Clinton's veto as "a shameful veto that in practice is equivalent to an incredibly brutal act of aggression against innocent humans."
As the New York Times reported on April 22, 1996, Giuliani defended Clinton -- and criticized Pope John Paul II, and Cardinal O'Connor:
Critics of the Pope's statements, including Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, questioned last week whether the church should issue opinions on political matters.
"It is a not-so-clever way of trying to muzzle the church," the Cardinal said of the criticisms. "If the church here in New York, the church in Rome or anywhere else were to refrain to address such crucial issues of public policy simply because an election campaign is being waged, then the church would never" be able to address these issues.
"The church will not be silenced simply because of an election," he added.
The Cardinal's remarks came a week after he equated late-term abortions with outright infanticide, and a week and a half after President Clinton's veto. Although Cardinal O'Connor used St. Patrick's pulpit yesterday to broadly defend the church's right to voice opinions on policy matters with moral dimensions, he also seemed to be responding specifically to comments made by Mayor Giuliani on Friday.
Asked about the Pope's criticisms, Mayor Giuliani, who is Catholic, said: "Such direct involvement in politics is not a good idea, because I think it confuses people. I think that religious institutions, including the Catholic Church, have every right to do everything they can to persuade their members and others as to their moral views. That can be done without focusing on a particular political figure, in this case the President of the United States."
But ...
... Governor Pataki, who also is Catholic, defined the church's role as open-ended: "I think the church has every right to speak out on issues that they consider to be of importance. And they have every right to speak out and criticize political decisions and politicians who make those decisions."
Among Catholic voters, I can only imagine that criticizing Pope John Paul II is about as popular as criticizing Ronald Reagan would be at a GOP convention. But aside from criticizing the late Pope, Giuliani seemed to say that the church should stay out of politics ...
Rudy will have a long way to go to convince voters that his statement yesterday was sincere.
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all of the big three are doing their best fish imitations flippin' & floppin' all over the deck as their campaigns flounder.
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You sound like a conspiracy theorist. |
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That is the reason I can't support Rudy. When it comes to abortion, he changes with the wind. The Republican I support will be totally against any type of abortion. |
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That is no way to treat a fellow, hard on crime, national defense, fiscal conservation. Yeah, he is not socially conservative, but by today’s standards, neither was Reagan. Let’s not forget that as governor Reagan signed into law legislation that permitted abortion. And what about the Reagan rule of “never say a harsh thing about a fellow Republican.” Yeah, I know you are just pointing out facts, but by doing so you are undermining a great Republican that disagrees with you on just a few of the thousands of issues that there are.
I hope everyone can think about what Reagan said and realize that our 80% friend is not our 20% enemy.
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All I can say is: WHERE'S MY SCARF? |
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Matt,
If only you had as much courage to articulate the case for your candidate John McCain to become the GOP nominee as you do in assailing McCain's chief rivals for every one of their hiccups.
Nonetheless, Matt, you need to be careful about crossing over into a candidate's theology.
If you want to criticize Giuliani for abortion, great, but do it in the context of a political issue---do not question his alleged theological failings as a Catholic.
Giuliani's abortion position as a POLITICAL ISSUE is your business---but Giuliani's abortion position within the context of his CATHOLIC THEOLOGY is NONE of your business---it's just not.
I realize that Giuliani did speak out against what the Pope and Cardinal said.
Since Giuliani made his criticism of the Pope and Cardinal public "news," you certainly should report what was said---but leave it at that---just reporting what they each said.
But do not question Giuliani (or us) about what Giuliani's shortcomings as a Catholic are---it just isn't your place to judge his theology.
You should just stick to criticizing his abortion position as a political issue.
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The ex-Mayor speaks a truism, the Church indeed needs to stay out of politics. However, abortion doesn't fall under "politics."
On issues directly contrary to the natural and divine law, the Catholic Church must voice their opposition. St. John Chrysostohm made waves when he condemned from his pulpit the wife of the Emporer for her debauchery. St. Amrbose denied communion to the Emporer in the West until he performed acts of penance for his views which contradicted the natural law.
One doesn't need the Catholic Church to understand abortion is evil. On matters that deal directly with life such as abortion, the Church needs to speak out.
Now on other prudential purely political issues (welfare plans, enviromental policies, etc) the Church does not take sides on political issues, but rather lays principles out on an issue, and people are free to come to their own conclusions on these issues, provided they follow those principles faithfully.
Here Guilianni is just trying to "seamless garment" method that basically tries to tell the Church to "butt out" of any questions of morality. It is a shame, because of the rest of his stellar credentials. |
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Gee...come on. Let's the motivated one join in. Are we so pathetic that we have to draft our candidate?
The fact that the "big three" are actually "big loser" does not even motivate those who have hidden interest joining this race is puzzling.
They should have made their decision--or at least prepare a groundwork for it.
No....no. The idea of a drafting a president is just as bad as electing a president for life.
Get over it. Bring the motivated ones out!!
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Wow, another post by Matt Lewis about Giulianai and abortion. What is that, 20 in a row now? He (Lewis, not Rudy) is becoming very irrelevant very quickly.
If Lewis were a marching band, he would be the USC marching band, with two notes missing from their three-note song. |
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Problem he is running as a Republican. D'OH!! |
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You do know, do you not, that Goldwater ended up pro-choice? |
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You are wise and correct Gabby! You actually recognize a decoy amongst wolves. All of the front 3 leaders are puppets to international bankers. Vin Webber(Lobbyist and board member of the CFR) joined the Romney camp about 10 days ago, and the press thinks mormans are donating like mad!(Ha-Ha) The international bankers could give each candidate a billion dollars and never miss a dime of it. And they will spend what ever they have to inorder to keep real conservatives like Tancredo,Hunter, and Paul out of the game. Nobody even questions why the top 10 conservative GOP senators with conservative scores of over 96 even try to run? Yet everyone knows that they are real true conservatives! Even offensive football has a number of misdirection plays, and it's just a game. But, when GAZILLIONS of dollars are at stake, the super rich leave it to chance?(Ha-Ha) And the beauty of it all Gabby, is that no matter how much you find out, nobody will believe you. Do like the wrestling fans, and grab a puppit to pull for. Because now that we are into 230 years of this experiment democracy, we can't tell the taxpayer that Santa don't exist! |
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Rudy could win in the general election, but he'll never get the nomination.
Too liberal on social issues, too ugly in a dress. |
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It is nice how when guliani flip flops on abortion or judges or Hillary flip flops on the war or whatever it is, the media calls it a reversal and not a flip flop.
At least Romney actually admits that he has reversed his opinion and says it is better. Guliani thinks abortion is okay! That is the political issue taht defines the republican and democratic party. How can we nominate someone who is for abortion, who thinks the constitution says in there somewhere that there is a right to kill babies? Jsut becuase he can win? Well, i don't think he can win, he has too much baggage. when Kerik gets indicted he is really in trouble becuase the media will follow every single development and every development that comes Rudi's name will be linked. Even just a month of press like that is enough to keep anybody from getting nominated or elected.
Besides, republicans cannoot nominate somebody that is pro choice!!! The next president is going to pick probably two justices! It is the opportunity for us to really make change. We can't elect someone that like Ginsburg and Breyer. |
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In my opinion, Giuliani support of the Supreme Court opinion is not a flip-flop. The opinon only said that the Congressional ban on partial-birth abortion was not unconstitutional. It was an opinion of deference to the political process -- which I think Rudy tried to highlight in his terse statement of support.
And if was a flip-flop, who cares. On a subject such as this, I think a change-of-mind is possible without it being a cynical political calculation. |
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The pope speaking out about killing, what an interesting contradiction that is!
Is the pope speaking about life or is he speaking about politics?
If he speaks about politics then we should have the IRS start investigating churches here in the United States and start enforcing taxpaying regulations on the religion.
If he's speaking about killing or the "value" of life, I can't think of a more hypocritical organization.
Please, pope, do us all a favor and just slither back under the rock from which you came. |
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