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Tuesday, August 07, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Bridge Too Far Gone
by Thomas Sowell
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It took a collapsing bridge in Minnesota to alert people across the country to the fact that many other bridges in many other places have been allowed to deteriorate without adequate maintenance.

If this were just a matter of poor political leadership at various levels of government, we could at least hope for better leaders in the future. But the problem goes deeper than that.

It is not just the people but the incentives that are responsible for the neglect of infrastructure, while tax money is lavished on all sorts of less urgent projects.

In other words, when there is a complete turnover in political leaders over time, the same problem will remain because the same incentives will remain when new leaders take over.

Some people claim that the problem is how much money it would take to properly maintain bridges, highways, dams and other infrastructure. But money is found for other things, including things far less urgent and some things that are even counterproductive.

The real problem is that the political incentives are to spend the taxpayers' money on things that will enhance politicians' chances of getting re-elected.

There may be enough money available to maintain bridges and other infrastructure but that same money can have a bigger political pay-off if spent building something new instead of maintaining and repairing existing structures.

When money is spent building a new community center, a golf course, or anything that will be newsworthy, there will be ribbon-cutting ceremonies and the politicians who cut the ribbons can expect to see their pictures in the newspapers and on TV.

All that keeps their name before the public in a positive role and therefore enhances their prospects of being re-elected.

But there are no ribbon-cutting ceremonies when bridges are being repaired or pot-holes are being filled in. These latter activities may be more valuable than a community center or a golf course, but they are not nearly as photogenic.

The preference for showy projects that will enhance a politician's career prospects is not peculiar to current politicians. Adam Smith pointed out the same thing about politicians in 18th-century Europe.

We can vote the rascals out but the new rascals who replace them will face the same incentives and in all likelihood will respond in the same way.

A pattern that has persisted for more than two centuries is likely to continue unless something fundamental is changed.

What really needs to be done is to change the incentives.

While most bridges in the United States are owned and operated by government agencies, there are times and places where bridges have been owned and operated by private companies, just as numerous other goods and services are provided through the marketplace.

How would that change the incentives?

A company that has to get the money to build and maintain bridges or other infrastructure through the voluntary actions of people in the financial markets, instead of being able to extract money from the taxpayers, is going to find financiers a lot more finicky about what is being done with their money. People who are putting their own money on the line are going to want to have their own experts taking a look under the bridges they finance, to see where there are rust, cracks or crumbling supports.

When people know that the lawsuits that are sure to follow after a bridge collapses are going to drain millions of dollars of their own money -- not the taxpayers' money -- that keeps the mind focussed.

Those who like to think of the government as the public interest personified may be horrified at the idea of turning a governmental function over to private enterprise.

Politicians who want to hang onto sources of patronage and power will of course encourage people to look at things that way. But the track record of privately run infrastructure will compare favorably with government-run infrastructure.

But that is only if we stop to compare -- and to think.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Trouble with this is:
Most of the companies that do this sort of building and maintenance are FOREIGN companies!
I don't want American infrastructure OWNED (or LEASED) by foreign companies.

Be careful if you contemplate this...

No Trolls, Please
If I were a betting woman I would have started a pool and taken bets on how long after the Minneapolis bridge collapse it would take for some townhall columnist to suggest that our infrastructure should be privatized. The vision in my head was of the old fairy tale in which a troll lives under the bridge and accosts everyone who tries to walk across it, saying, "Trip-trap, trip-trap, who's that going over my bridge?".

We have a government. It should tax the people at a rate adequate to provide for national needs, SUCH AS KEEPING BRIDGES IN GOOD REPAIR. We don't need a Corporate American Republican troll under every bridge, making a profit on it.

Trolls? Oh Please!!
If Lilly were a betting woman, she'd have made a lot more money and made it even quicker if she had started a pool to see how long it took the Liberal Kooks (but I repeat myself) to blame the collapsed bridge on George Bush.

What is it about Americans making a profit that enrages liberals?

Keep up the good work Dr. Sowell; right on as usual!!

Fine theory, but...
Supposing all bridges were privatized. How would the owner collect the tolls? Current technology enables this to be done reasonably painlessly via electronic means (FasTrack in the bay area, etc.) Unfortunately, this would require every vehicle to be fit with an RFID tag (or whatever) which is unlikely to happen any time soon. So, the only real alternative is to have toll booths on every bridge. Pain in the rear. But good in the sense that there would be more incentive to leave the old clunker in the garage. Hmmm, I'm liking the idea...

The other worry (for car drivers) is that owning a bridge is often a monopoly privilege. Thinking of the bay area again, true competition would require TWO golden gates, TWO Oakland-SF bridges and so on. Obviously, not gonna happen. Granted, the government is also a monopoly power, but at least we can kick them out if they get too big for their jackboots (you see, the 2 main parties can be played against each other so it's a switcheroo duopoly not a monopoly as such).

Anyway, the whole bridge thing is yet another demonstration of most folks' abysmal inability to calculate risk. This same innumeracy, along with the egocentric inflation of our own central place in the universe, explains why we cannot take toothpaste on planes. Even if every bridge collapsed right now, chances are incredibly good that you would not be even near one. It's really a self correcting problem (whether gov't or private control). If enough bridges tumble, heads roll too, thus bridges get fixed soon enough.


thickasabrick
There's madness in your method. You are correct: if it's gov't controlled and operated, change will only occur after the disaster - and it has to be huge in order to capture and sustain the momentum for change.

Politician: Don't worry, you'll get a new bridge - just as soon as the current one collapses - don't bother me otherwise.

See, renewal's built right into the infrastructure!

rattler97: two thumbs up in your answer to the gov't teet sucking lillys who see nothing wrong with gov't confiscating every last dime. Of course, what use will the money have when people refuse to put any value into it and only coersion and slavery remain?

Excellent column, Mr. Sowell!

Sowell is ignoring economics on this
That's hard to say, but I think it's true. I can not speak for Minnesota as I have never lived in Minnesota, but I can speak for my own state of Alaska and a few public works projects we've had going on.

Example - two perfectly good elementary schools that were built in the 1950s. They had withstood the Anchorage earthquake of 1964 and several big earthquakes since. One had recently (within five years) been upgraded electrically and telecommunicatively for the computer age. The other one hadn't. Both needed the usual repairs -- a new roof, weather stripping, better windows. The costs of upgrading both schools was $1 million less than the cost of building two new schools. The district put it to a vote three times and finally pulled a scare tactic of having the schools x-rayed to assure they could withstand an earthquake. They both passed, but voters voted to replace them. Why?

Well, a couple of reasons. One is the social-climbing stupid reason of wanting new schools that look snazzy. I encountered more than a few people who simply hate old school buildings.

The primary reasons, however, is my husband. He voted to rebuild the schools as I voted to remodel them. You see, my husband is a construction worker. New schools are a large company business, which means the unions, which means work for him and his coworkers. Remodels usually mean smaller companies, smaller jobs spread out over time and less jobs for construction workers.

Funding was a major reason. The State of Alaska reimburses 80 percent of bonds for new construction and considerably less for remodel. This is in part due to a federal program.

Viola! We have two new schools. There are other older schools in the district and now people are saying we should replace them too. It doesn't make sense because the debris clogs our already taxed landfill and it costs more money, but I'm sure the voters will vote for it.


Do you want to govern Americans?
I propose that if we made wanting the job a disqualification we would get better results out of those who would then volunteer to temporarily govern us.

Lilly
I see you have read the column by Mr. Sowell. Lilly, if you don't like the way the Townhall columnists argue about making things more equitable, why don't you spend more time on your favorite liberal blogs. On these, your wonderful government programs will be praised and the bad things they produce will be ignored. You are obviously unhappy with what goes on in Townhall. Let's face it, you simply don't like what you see here. Now, I've got the perfect recipe for you: leave Townhall forever and suffer no longer. We sure won't miss your liberal tirades and you will live happily forever.

Aurorawatcher
Wow, you and your husband must have lovely arguments. How did you two ever make it together and even more important, how do you stay in the same house? In most families, the wife supports the husband, it makes for fewer arguments when the breadwinner has the support of his helpmeet. Am I missing something here?

Public works and private ambitions
I agree, the same thing was noted by the man who runs CoyoteBlog, he noticed that the local govt. spend out on new recreational facilities far more readily than they maintain old ones. And the reason? The kudos of ribbon-cutting by those who 'took action in the public interest (and - oh yes - spending public money to do it!)' A business backer rang him to challenge him to do it better by bidding for the local council contracts, and now he does! Same incentives, same poor public facilities maintenance.

I was appalled
that within minutes of the collapse, that maggot, Nancy Grace, was talking about who to sue. And of course, it was Bushes fault. That aside,Mr. Sowell is entirely correct, as usual. I always enjoy your column Mr. Sowell.

uwcharlie
Yes, you are missing something. You missed the part where women became individual human beings, not just appendages of whatever male has assumed charge of us. When you moved here from Saudi Arabia or the 14th century, did you not notice the change?


The one thing that most of the liberals
the MSM is missing is that there is ADEQUATE funding to maintain the roads and bridges through the taxes that are levied for that purpose. The problem is that like SS, the money goes into a so called “trust fund” which is really “general funds”. It is then spent on the politician’s favorite projects that, in most cases, have little to do with road maintenance.

What we need is a law that prohibits the use of road taxes on projects other than roads and that no more than some fixed percentage be used for new roads. Note that road taxes are comprised of a lot more than just the State and Federal gas taxes. Speaking of Federal gas taxes, they should be rolled into the State taxes and the federal highway commission abolished. The Federal system is nothing more than another boondoggle to grant political favors. Minnesota gets back app 97 cents for every dollar of gas tax. My State gets back app 70 cents. MA, NY, and CA get large amounts back.

Dr. Sowell, I think you were on the
right track about changing something fundamental, but you slipped off the track to privatization when you should have continued to TERM LIMITS! That would take the "re-elected" part of the equation out. One term at each level of government consecutively, allowing for re-election after a 4-5 year hiatus in the private sector (no lobbying).

Once "re-election" has been removed, perhaps those elected will actually act in the interenst of the country or at least in the interests of those that elected them. Contributions to candidates would be restricted to personal donations only, no corporate donations, no PACs, no party money allowed, no personal wealth allowed. A candidate can only give himself the same amount restricted to anyone else, lets say we raise that amount to $4,000-5,000.

Now the problem becomes how to we get those crooks in Washington to vote themselves out of their jobs??

Lilly (re: trolls)
Have you considered that it might be the Govt that is the 'troll' - not just under the bridge, but in so many aspects of our lives?

And, lest you think otherwise, I am not opposed to having a Govt. I just want one that is limited, so that individuals aren't!

and what if we get...
what if we get an "ENRONesk" CEO supervising our "privately" administered transportation system? there are bad people in positions of power in both the public and private sectors.

Communists Lilly & Nancy Grace
are incorrect as lawsuits should be against the Governor (not goverment/taxpayers) who failed to do their job correctly - wasting tax dollars to bring attention to themself vs. maintaining "state-owned" items.

Re: Lilly
The thing that you all are missing in your responses to Lilly, is that she didn't address a *single* logical point Dr. Sowell made. Agree with him or not (on this particular issue, I am not sure that I do, though I agree with Dr. Sowell on most things), but you have to at least respect his reason and engage him on that level.

Instead, Lilly just trots out the old Leftist tropes, without ever once engaging Dr. Sowell's arguments: Government good, private enterprise bad. What an idealistic world she must live in! There is no need to actually reason things through in Lilly's world, it seems, when one has such wonderfully simple (or is that simplistic?) reductions to fall back on!

Dear Lilly
If you are of liberal persuasion, why do you keep coming back to Townhall?

There is enough money already
With a Federal budget of $2.3 trillion per year, the problem isn't money, it's priorities. As things stand now, the road construction lobby pursues its share of the pie quite aggressively and rather effectively to boot. But orangebarrelphobia makes construction projects unpopular at best- I doubt there is anyone in the driving public who hasn't experienced the frustration of traffic delays resulting from construction projects. as far as bad decisions go, the govt collectively pees away enough money on ludicrous spending to pave every road in the land with gold. Another problem is that infratructure expenses do not go directly to citizens. Their benefits are realized indirectly, making it hard for any politician, except maybe Robert KKK Byrd or Ted Stevens to directly benefit politically from bridge construction.

uwcharlie...
I agree that Lilly and other liberals should probably take a hike from TH...

But, I have to say that, in a marriage relationship, the wife doesn't have to check her brains at the altar! A good wife helps her husband by using her God-given mind. Sometimes the husband can be off-base about something. The good wife will point things out, or else, would she be a good wife?

Low Taxes Demolish Bridge & Kill People!
I wonder what the pool was for "spinning" the Minneapolis disaster as a rationalization for jacking up tax rates even higher? The victims haven't even been accounted for yet, Never mind the investigation into the causes, but already the pop media pundits and ruling class are calling for even higher taxes up & down the board, without regard to whether they would actually generate more revenue.

Road funding is indeed often siphoned off from maintenance into flashy new projects. For notorious example, a certain Representative from South Carolina, who happens to be a Majority Whip in the House of Reps, continues to push his pet project: a bridge (last estimate $150 mega-bux) across a major river and swamp that would connect two tiny communities of less than 200, in a seriously rural "pristine" area, to save those folks a 13 mile detour down to I-95 to cross the river (actually, Lake Marion, at Santee). In the process, a huge amount of otherwise sacred "wetlands" will be disrupted, & a boat landing/small marina/campground will be almost obliterated. (The major industry there other than agriculture happens to be hunting/fishing tourism, you see.)

How much repair and upkeep would $150,000,000 buy instead of a bridge that will see maybe 24 vehicle crossings/day? AND will of course require maintenance itself, once it's built?!

We need to judge politicians by the money of our own they leave in our pockets while getting the routine jobs done, instead of being impressed by flashy new stuff. Sen Jim DeMint is even now being "reprimanded" for standing up against efforts to ram earmark pork thru the Senate, when the votoers need to be "reprimanding the GOP non-leadership, to say nothing of the Demagogues, & vindicating statesmen like DeMint instead!

Government vs Private
There are some things that the government normally does well in and are really meant for government control. One of those is road building and maintenance. This is really not a socialistic enterprise and it benefits ALL of the citizens rather than a select few. This was recognized early in our history and is specifically mentioned in the Constitution as a power of the Federal Government (Congress, Art 3, section 8).

Early in our history roads and canals were established and maintained by private companies because the government simply did not have the money (isn't that a laugh). later the government took over the building of canals and roads and financed construction through an age old favorite, gambling (lotteries) and maintenance via tolls. In any event, it was amply demonstrated that government was more suited to establish roads and maintain them.

Only in recent times has government started to fall behind. This is because the government has become engaged in socialism and in infrastructure, building, new vs maintaining old. This is what needs to be turned around. So in this sense, I disagree with Dr. Sowell.

The care and feeding of Trolls
Why does the Govt, an entity that is created with good intentions, become a troll?

* because it continues to be seen as the source of all solutions - despite its abysmal record

* when it is encouraged to grow - beyond its means, and much beyond its original bounds

* because its growth is in DIRECT opposition to the growth of productive Capitalism. Every 'public works' project mis-allocates resources away from profitable, life-sustaining enterprises.

And, worst of all ..

* because it derives its sustenance from a fallacy, that can be paraphrased as "Non-profit good, profit bad".

Beyond the misallocation of economic and human resources (which, is a serious enough indictment of Govt's troll-like behavior), that statement inverts our morality.

It comes from (and perpetuates) a moral code that despises humanity - for being human!

This is how that misanthropic moral code goes: "Humans are self-serving, profit-seeking creatures - and therefore evil. So, let's punish humanity by conjuring up an impossible, unattainable, non-human ideal and then PRETEND that some of us are attaining that ideal".

Despite all the fluff that surrounds the 'ideal' of an altruistic, not-for-profit Govt, it:
(a) is inefficient
(b) relies on taxes derived from 'greedy', external profit-seeking enterprises to keep it afloat

Privitatization Bad Idea
Privatization in essence means turning a government run function over to the private enterprize sector. Private interprize functions in a sector designed to make a profit for the entity or person involved in the private endeavor. For the capital sector to truly function at its best, there must be competition. Without competition in the marketplace, there is no profit incentive to change the product or to innovate. Without free market forces the Govt. will have to allow for a monopoly. All government allowed monopolies are tightly controlled by govt. regulations, often time govt. funded funded and innovation and service is almost nonexistent. Look at the Telephone monopoly by AT&T. Once AT&T was no longer a monopoly, communications for consumers changed overnight.

If bridges and highways became a part of the private sector, and there was no competition, we would be no better off than we are currently.

The way to have the infrastructure maintained in a safe and proper fashion is to make certain the monies collected for maintenance and repair is used for that purpose, and hold politicians and govt. bureaucrats accountable for their inaction. Allow lawsuits with punitive damages in every case against the individuals (damages not paid for by taxpaers, but by the indiuviduals themselves) against all govt. officials, politicians at every level and anyone responsible for building and maintaining the infrastructure and you will see changes overnight.

Don't Tread On Me
What is funny about this bridge is that the State of SC doesn't want it, many of the residents don't want it, and most of the population doesn't even know that it has been proposed. What is really a crime is that spending money on this neglects needed projects like a freeway from Myrtle Beach to the interior for hurrican evacuation and traffic relief.

http://www.thestate.com/463/story/66949.html

Shoe on the other foot
If it had been a privatly held compnay controlling that bridge, we would have the government up in arms to lynch them! There would be grand show trials, making the company top tier people out ot be evil swindlers and who knows what else. Just imagin how that would go down.

Instead here, there is none of that. A little blame game from left to right or vice versa but not major calling for heads over this.

I believe that maintaining roads is one of the few legit responsibilies of our government but if they show time and time again that they are not up to the job then I am all for them contracting out the work so we can get a good job done and save some money in the process!

What happened to thinking deeper?
" If this were just a matter of poor political leadership at various levels of government, we could at least hope for better leaders in the future. But the problem goes deeper than that."

Your essay, despite its opening, pretty much "stays the course" of blaming politicians.

What is really going on is that capitalism does not work. (Neither does Socialism nor Communism, because they are structured the same way, too, both politically and financially.)

The reason that things are not affordable is because everyone is engaging in "profit." My profit is your Inflation. The result is a cascade effect where prices rise, humans become devalued, certain skills are over-priced, and everyone loses.

The "marketplace" becomes a perpetual excuse for personal greed (supply and demand, etc.) But even when people conquer their greed, they can't change the system. So what is the system?

In a nutshell, the government prints the money, and then demands it back in the form of taxes. This contradiction has been true for thousands of years. Taxes force people to engage in profit; profit creations inflation; inflation leads to civil war. Every government seeds its own destruction by printing money and then taxing the people.

peace,
http://www.behappyandfree.com

lilly troll
"If I were a betting woman I would have started a pool and taken bets on how long after the Minneapolis bridge collapse it would take for some townhall columnist to suggest that our infrastructure should be privatized. "

If I were a betting man I would have started a pool and taken bets on how long it would take for liberals to blame George Bush for the bridge collapse. A side bet would be that this would occur sooner than the reasonable suggestion to introduce better quality control via privatized competition.

I would have won the bet against Lilly.

Vic
Thanks for the link. Should have known Rep. Clyburn would play the race card.

Re: lilly
I don't agree with the sentiment that lilly should leave townhall discussions (unless you're just "busting her chops"). While I think I *never* have agreed with lilly, I still give her a lot of credit for reading townhall columns, i.e. reading articles with which she is unlikely to agree. So few of us actually bother to do this.

Sowell is Right On Again (Sorry Lilly)
Sowell is dead on the money in noting that politicians' motivations are often at odds with what is best for society. He clearly and succinctly spells this out and logically supports his thesis as well; yet libs like Lilly still cannot grasp his message. Her response is nothing more than a prefabricated talking point planted in her mind by other leftists. Thomas Sowell regularly displays an innate ability to get to the heart of matters and do so in logical fashion. People like Lilly, unfortunately, have been failed by the public educational system and have developed little or no critical thinking ability of their own. They know who they trust, and everyone else can get lost.

Term Limits
Term Limits ...

Pat Buchanan is very interesting today, as always.

Has anyone read Mr Sowell's 'Ever Wonder Why'
compilation of articles? Well worth the pennies it cost.

SORRY, TOM
I LOVE TO READ YOUR WRITINGS, MR. SOWELL, BUT TODAY?

Bridges cannot be "maintained" - steel gets weak from rusting, concrete gets washed out, etc.
Even electric utilities companies do NOT cut tree branches close to the wires - and only after a storm they repair the damage...meanwhile we are without electricity for hours and days - flooded basements, rotten food in a frigde, etc.

taxing lilly
Your solution was no surprise to most here. Now, let's talk about taxes. I don't know where you live and frankly could care less. However, I live in the nanny state of NY (I know I have mentioned this before so sorry for repeating myself). I live on an island in the middle of the Niagara River and we need bridges to get on and off the island. Go figure.
Now, we pay tolls and we had a 10% tax levied on gas to maintain bridges and roads. Our bridges were just rated 4 out of 10 or dangerous.
So lilly, where did that money go???? We pay high taxes here in NY. Just how much more should we pay?? I do believe this article explains clearly the heart of this matter.
And you know what lilly, I don't put this on Washington or any sitting President dem or Republican. I put the fault on the elected officals we sent to Washington to look out for us back home. In my case that would be chuckie, hill and louise slaughter.

Pandering to Ghosts
"What is funny about this bridge is that the State of SC doesn't want it, many of the residents don't want it, and most of the population doesn't even know that it has been proposed. ..."

How many "structurally deficient" bridges ( a very broad catch-all term) does SC have again?

The bizarre thing is that only a handful of people in Lone Star & Rimini really want this thing, mainly to cut a few mi's off their commute to Paxville, Sumter, or Orangeburg. My odometer told me it's a bit over 12 miles down the River Rd from Rimini to US 301 at St. Paul's. I believe the distance from Lone Star to Santee is comparable.

It's not like Clyburn needs the votes; the 6th District is custom-gerrymandered to be safe for him. Clyburn has stated one of his objectives is to develop the area, but geez, isn't this the very sort of place lefties are always insisting SHOULDN'T be developed?!

Probably the best scenario for the locals would be if they got $$$big bux for their lands from developers, & then moved to Sumter or Orangeburg or Columbia. Then Rimini can become Santee Northeast.

You may recall that over a decade ago, some landowners in I think Georgetown Cty were blocked from building a FAR SMALLER bridge OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS to access THEIR OWN LAND on a small swamp island!

Re Clyburn's Folly & who wants it & why: There's always the construction $$$, of course, which is by nature temporary. Then there's maintenance, but there's plenty of that to do already.

(Ribbon-cutting ceremony for: The James Clyburn Filled Pothole!)

I just never figured out the real angle on this project at all. It doesn't seem to even make bad sense.

No to lilly leaving
I want lilly to stay and comment. We need to hear the other side no matter how inane. If libs are forced out of TH we are no better than the dailkos and other sick lib sites.

Be happy
No wonder you're so happy. The phrase "ignorance is bliss" was never more applicable.

Give Charlie a break!
I think I know what uwcharlie was trying to say about the husband/wife relationship and it was not that women should "check their brain at the altar". I think the point he was driving at was whether or not the wife was supportive of her husband's decisions and allowed him to make those decisions even if they were not in total agreement. I don't think he was trying to offend anyone's feminist sensibilities here.

As for the issue at hand, if people want to blame someone the blame lies at home, not in DC. These people recently voted to fund a $700 million+ sports stadium with tax dollars while they knew the bridge had been poorly rated. They decided that a new stadium was more important than the upkeep of their bridgesnd we see the results!

Question for lilly and the rest of the
kooky commies:

Give me JUST ONE incentive for government bureaucrats, who are answerable to NOBODY, to perform their jobs well. Just one.

The FACT of the matter is that there IS NO incentive whatsoever for any of these morons to do their job at all, let alone do it well. In fact, one can be FIRED from their jobs in the government if they do too good of a job (this is, in fact, the case for postal carriers, who are fired if they complete their routes faster than they are told to complete them so as not to make the rest of the incompitent buffoons delivering mail look like the incompitent buffoons that they are).

In the private market, your customers demand you do your job well. In the government, there is NOBODY who can even demand you do your job at all, let alone do it well.

Perhaps lilly and the rest of the sub-room temperature IQ kooky commies are nothing but government employees who enjoy not ever having to worry about doing their jobs, hence the reason they support notions that have never, in 3000 years of trying, been anything other than monumental failures. They benefit from not being answerable to anyone.

Bridges and Bureaucrats
Dr Sowell, great article. I am suprised that you did not mention the Multi-million dollar stadium that Minnesota tax payers are funding. It seem that priorities are truly out of whack, and not only in Minnesota. I live in a city where the Mayor's number one priority was building a professional football stadium with all the promises and propoganda that it will generate income, jobs and tax basis. Reading an earlier article by you about the bad economics of Tax payer supported sports arena I voted against it and told everyone else I knew that the idea stunk. People didn't listen because they were going to have a Pro-Football Team in Town!!!
We, by human nature, tend to want new and don't like maintaining old. I look out in my back yard and see my garden. I think 'maybe I shoud just rip it out and put in a pond.' 'I could fix that old clunker in my driveway, or I could have a NEW CAR!' 'I NEED a new computer cause...'
We are all like that and to make a change to be maintenace minded has to be the change.
Governments and Industries are all run by humans and if the case can be made to destroy a bridge and replace it may be a good one. Make the new one 'relatively' maintenance lite. Make an engineering plan and keep it up. When it is time replace it again.
Nothing wrong with that. how hard can it be to change the oil, check the tires, check the fluids and get a check-up.
It costs money. and the government wants to put money where they can garner the most votes. Businesses will put it where they can garner the most profit.
I don't see a solution unless a business chrges a toll and that would not be very people freindly since they expect their taxes should pay for it.

Unfortunately
the bridge collapse aside from bring a great tragedy is just another sign of how the infrastructure in our country is beginning to show wear. The Waste water/water treatment plants are in dire need of modernization, the roadways are way behind in being able to carry the loads imposed on them.

As I've stated many times, our funds are mismanaged to say the least. The infrastructure currently in place was built to support perhaps 1/2 of the inhabitants of our country. Yet the same politicians and that's in all form of government simply do not know how to deal with the problems facing us.

This century will require leadership that just doesn't seem to be available. The election process has become a "who has the most money" theme, and doesn't allow for anything new to be brought into the system. SOS I'm afraid.

We just don't seem to want to hold anyone accountable for anything. We have become complacent to the point where it's become acceptable to be so.

The Bridge and NAFTA
Another charlie

I read this in the World Net Daily.... Could this be true????

PREMEDITATED MERGER Officials warned NAFTA trucks threatened bridge Increasing traffic from international trade placed undue stress on Minneapolis span.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57029

Also: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57017
NAFTA Superhighway traffic tied to bridge collapse WND uncovers federal study warning of high risk in 1998.

Late addition
I believe MM wrote the article that three important bridges were built by illegals usuing insufficient welding certifications. This also kills the Alaska comment. I find it crazy that a new school is built instead of remodel. Especially when substandard labor is used. What a mess!

Lilly lilly lilly leggs
What uwcharlie said!! Just leave. Plus you're staying up way past your bedtime just to be the first to make a post to Dr. Sowell's brilliant columns. Respectable people are in bed in order to be productive the next day. Oh, and why do you hate black people so much? (Dr. Sowell in this case.)

Rattler97-Beowulfe-Buzzkat
Lilly writes: “If I were a betting woman”

From the tone of her posts, if Lilly were a betting woman, she would want minorities and women given higher odds of winning the bet. White Men given lower odds of winning the bet. 50% of the winning confiscated and put towards HilaryCare!

Where is.......
Carl Rowan when you need him. Quisling Sowell STRIKES AGAIN.

As for Lilly, leave her alone. Calling her a "racist" Making

If you want us liberals/progressives to go, then I may just take you up on that offer.

Maybe we should all just stay around people we agree with, look like, share political traits with, etc.

Sure has worked in the past, hasn't it?

Minnesotan victims were their own...
PERPETRATORS...

Consider what the people and the politicos apparently thought money was better spent than on a bridge that since 1990 had known problems...

The Minnesota Taxpayer League has published their: "2006 MINNESOTA PIGLET BOOK"

Note these oh so much more important projects to spend taxpayer money on:

* The state bailout of the Minneapolis Teacher’s Retirement Fund, which puts state taxpayers on the hook for $972 million in unfunded liabilities;
* A new $776 million Twins Stadium to be paid for with a Hennepin County sales tax increase (approved by state legislators with no voter referendum)
* $97.5 million for the Northstar Commuter Rail line;
* $34 million in subsidies to ethanol producers that have seen a 300 percent increase in profits in the last year;
* $30 million for bear exhibits at the Minnesota and Como Zoos;
* $12 million to renovate the Shubert Theater in downtown Minneapolis;
* $1 million for a replica Vikings ship in Moorhead;
* $500,000 for a skating rink in Roseville;
* $310,000 for a Shakespeare festival in Winona; and
* $129,000 for state art grants for North Dakota museums and theaters.
(http://www.taxpayersleague.org/pdf/2006PigletBook.pdf)

Do you think some of this money could've gone to reapairing/replacing a bridge that had problems that were already known?


If only liberals - progressive parasites
would keep their collective word: "If you want us liberals/progressives to go, then I may just take you up on that offer"...

How about Canada, could you all go to Canada please and stop costing this country's taxpayers money?

precisely what
is the incentive for private companies to maintain a bridge they own? You want me to believe they won't have limited liability if it collapses after they own it? Isn't that why people incorporate? Isn't that why the inclination of corporations is to squeeze every last cent out of its assets before replacing or repairing? You think they'd buy a bunch of old bridges and fix them up right away or would the states have to upgrade the bridges first to make them saleable? Then, at that point what is the benefit of the sale? To the public, I mean. Not the state who would reap the one time funds or the new private owner who would have a guaranteed, no competition source of revenue.
Again, what is the incentive for a private firm to do a better job? You put up a bridge and it's supposed to last and you are supposed to maintain it. Don't you expect there to be government rules and inspectors just like there are now to insure public safety? You really don't, do you Sowell? You think the government is just going to walk away from its duty to public safety because they sold the bridge. That is a dumbfounding revelation if it is true. If you believe that I have a bridge I want to sell you. Ha!
Privatization only works when there is constant competition and in selling us this idea you haven't included the requisite competitive enviornment to insure better bridges. That is because it can't exist.
This is a bunch of hooey to me. Sowell is stuck in a rut of theoretical thinking.

Regarding Liberal-Conservative Warfare
This is addressed to those of you who lament the liberal-conservative warfare and would prefer to mend fences, in order to eventually mend bridges … and accomplish the many other things being stymied by the impasse.

One of the greatest joys known to Man is the joy of having a scapegoat enemy believed to be responsible for all things evil, and being on the warpath to bring that enemy down. The above posts demonstrate this reality, as most of them come from heartfelt convictions that “the other side” is the enemy and their own side is the caring one. Both sides are implacably convinced of this, and appeals to reason fall on deaf ears. … This is the way we are: tribal territorial animals predisposed to form tribes and war with one another.

No, “predisposed” does not mean predestined, for we do have the ability to override our hardwired instincts with “softwired” ideas and beliefs. But unless we have restraining principles and beliefs, we regress to blind tribal warfare.

I am currently on a “mission” to promote a better understanding of our human nature based on what is being learned in the brain sciences about how our brain functions and influences our behavior. If by chance you share this interest you can email me via ManByNature@comcast.net, or visit ManByNature.com.

Lax utility?
thinker writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 9:22 AM

"Even electric utilities companies do NOT cut tree branches close to the wires - and only after a storm they repair the damage...meanwhile we are without electricity for hours and days - flooded basements, rotten food in a frigde, etc."

Not where I live - they do preventative tree trimming.

Once again, Dr. Sowell NAILS IT!!!
Why can't we have people in elective office that have the brains Tom Sowell has? Why is it when we elect people, they are of the lowest common denominator? Is it any surprise when we get bridge collapses, pork barrel projects, and more inefficient big government?

The saying " crime wouldn't pay if the governemtn ran it" is appropriate here. Government is not very good at doing anything simply because most governemnt decisions are "committee" decisions and a committee decision is only as good as the weakest, dumbest member of that committee. It is no way to run anything effectively and for sure, what it does is protect the decision makers from any personal responsibility because they didn't make the decision: the committee did.

Private enterprises on the other hand are responsible. We live or die every day by the quality and implementation of the decisions we make or fail to make. Accountability changes the whole priority of how and when things get done. The politicians priority is to get re-elected. So the bridge falls. People die. So what? They are not responsible.

Bang!
Ralph Ellison writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 10:43 AM

"Where is.......
Carl Rowan when you need him. [sic]"

Looking for kids in his swimming pool to shoot, perhaps?

"Quisling Sowell STRIKES AGAIN...If you want us liberals/progressives to go, then I may just take you up on that offer."

If this is what passes for liberal argument, then we won't miss you. Don't let your mouse bite you on the way out, and please send a worthy opponent.


Thanks para_dimz for demonstrating...
Just how clueless you liberals/progressives are...

Juandos
You missed a really big one. Minnesota's light rail transit. The public did not want it. There was outrage about it but all the democrats voted in it, the Repubs voted against it. "The new $715.3-million Hiawatha Light Rail Line connects downtown Minneapolis and the Nicollet Mall with the Minneapolis/St Paul International Airport and the Mall of America in nearby Bloomington. It is a fixed-price, 12-mile long, double-track, electric-powered system that includes 17 themed neighborhood stations."

The final cost was somewhere around one billion dollars! This much money was spent on 12 miles! It was frivolous, unnecessary. And it is a perfect example of Dr. Sowell's article.

Government won't tolerate competition
The guy who was my high school locker mate owns a bridge.

It is one of two bridges that connect the island he lives on to the mainland. There are some 20,000 people living on this island.

He has spent the last five years in court fending off an attempt by the local township government of this island to 'condemn' his bridge and take over ownership and control of it under emminent domain (even though the township's jurisdiction for eminent domain only extends halfway across the river that the bridge spans. The township is claiming eminent domain over property that is physically in another township).

The township has no complaints about the way the bridge is operated, and has admitted that if/when they gain ownership/control of it nothing will change, including the toll prices. They are just nervous because this bridge is in the control of a private owner.

This is how government reacts when a private business successfully owns and operates a key component of transportation infrastructure.

BTW - the local government doesn't own the other bridge either. That one is owned by the county. I guess you can't claim 'eminent domain' over another branch of government.

What a bunch of putzes.

Bail outs
juandos writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 10:48 AM

"Minnesotan victims were their own...
PERPETRATORS...

Note these oh so much more important projects to spend taxpayer money on:

* The state bailout of the Minneapolis Teacher’s Retirement Fund, which puts state taxpayers on the hook for $972 million in unfunded liabilities;"

Are the teachers too stupid to fund their own retirements?

"* A new $776 million Twins Stadium to be paid for with a Hennepin County sales tax increase (approved by state legislators with no voter referendum)."

We do that here, too - how can tax money be spent building playgrounds for private companies who pay millionaire adults to play kids' games?


Rich D.
Now that was a cheap shot against Carl Rowan. The man is dead, but you like speaking ill of the dead don't you?

thanks, 'mytwocents'...
I had heard about this light rail system but I couldn't find enough substantial on it to put it into my argument against what libtards see as the upsides of massive governement ownership of the public byways...

Trucks & Taxes
Cars and pickup trucks will never wear out our system of interstate roads and bridges. However, the tremendous number of 18 wheeelers rolling down the highway, often overloaded, do. Perhaps turning over the collection of the cost of construction and maintenance of our system would address that shortcomming in the current arrangement. Even though truckers are paying far more than cars in taxes to use the roads, they are not paying their fair share. We are essentially subsidizing the trucking industry by allowing them to use the roadways too cheaply when much of the freight they carry should be moved by rail. Then I wonder how much $ the trucking industry and Teamsters spend on lobbying the Fed government?

dims and infrastructure
dims can find plenty of cash to payback their supporters and special interest mastrers, why can't they use these same funds to help fund the infrastructure. If they really care about the people, let them do the job they were sent to washington to do. But expected bozo's like crybaby murtha to support his constituents rather than his special interest buddies is pure fantasy. To think that pelosi and reid will show any leadership on this issue is nothiong more than wishful thinking

Privatizing Infrastructure
Right diagnosos; wrong treatment. Very, very, very bad idea.

Well para_dimz
You ask

"precisely what
is the incentive for private companies to maintain a bridge they own?"

The most reliable motive on earth; profit. Especially long term profit.

Yes, the bridge will be insured, but the insurance company is motivated by profit too. They will not insure a bridge that is not properly maintained.

You apparently have never worked in a place that was insured by Factory Mutual, who has full-time insppectors who travel around to inspect facilities they insure for compliance with things like fire code, equipment maintenance procedures and schedules, and even general cleanliness and orderliness.

And this is all voluntary, under the free enterprise system.

Your post tells us way more about what kind of bridgeowner you would be than about the citizens who actually do own bridges.

The idea that someone who owns a bridge would just let it rot until it collapses is as insulting and uninformed as it is stupid.

behappyandfree
Although demand is mentioned in your analysis, its effect doesn't seem to be considered at all. Your notion of "My profit is your Inflation" going-out-of-control is always argued by capitalists to be buffered by demand. So, you have to address this in your analysis in order to poke holes in capitalist fundamentals. I'm not criticizing your argument as much as I am trying to understand it.

"In a nutshell, the government prints the money, and then demands it back in the form of taxes."

One problem with this, in the case of the U.S.: the U.S. government does not print the money -- a private corporation does. (If you don't believe me, take out a dollar from your wallet and read all about it.) Your personal income taxes, assuming you are an American citizen, go to pay this company for doing this service. It's fundamentally wrong (and unconstitutional) but practiced nonetheless.

Aurorawatcher writes
The primary reasons, however, is my husband. He voted to rebuild the schools as I voted to remodel them. You see, my husband is a construction worker. New schools are a large company business, which means the unions, which means work for him and his coworkers. Remodels usually mean smaller companies, smaller jobs spread out over time and less jobs for construction workers.

Repeat after me: "FOLLOW THE MONEY"!

get the facts
The following is comprehensive article on privatization: Guess what the socialistic europeans are ahead of us in doing such


http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_privatization.html

para-dimz
you are an idealgoge and a fundmentalist. Facts dont matter.
Read the above and get rid of idealogy and support what is effiecent and works.

Politician status quo
All politicians should be held accountable. They can set aside funds for the "bridge to nowhere" but can't find the "glory" to set aside enough funds to maintain our bridges. Sad, very sad.

Bridgework
I find myself agreeing with roadkill, and I have an additional thought. when you build a large new structure, such as a stadium, people see the stadium for years to come. If you shore up a bridge, if you do it right, people who use the bridge never see the improvements. Politicians can point to the stadium and say, 'I made this', but they would not be able to point to new reinforcement buried under concrete and say the same thing.

Didn't know that...
Ralph Ellison writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 11:25 AM

"Now that was a cheap shot against Carl Rowan. The man is dead, but you like speaking ill of the dead don't you?"

(1) Didn't know he was dead - so what?
(2) Why is that a cheap shot?
(3) Is the hyprocrisy of the dead now off limits to discussion?
(4) Should we now praise Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin, or are the evils of the dead unusuable for instruction?
(5) So why are you invoking a dead man?
(6) Are you as humorless as you appear, or is it only an act?

What about the inspector?
This bridge was inspected not that long ago and was deamed worthy. Rather than blame the president or congress or the city for blowing money on a stadium maybe the inspector or inspectors need to be taken to task. If a doctor misses a tumor which turns to cancer you hold him responsible why not the inspector?

Just a thought.

wiseone, YES!

THANK YOU, SIR!
it gets depressing when we have to explain the basic principles of a healthy, smart, logical business to someone who listens to Hitlary and Hussein Oba ma.

But not everybody has the acumen of those born before, say, 1980... ;)

Earth to Lilly
The folks who were supposed to manage the bridge didn't but rather than replace them your solution is give them more money. I have a question do you want the same bunch of ninneys who did a spectacular job with this bridge take over healthcare in this country? Just look at public vs private education. Need I say more?

I am John Doe!

Lilly
Without Lilly, a 1/3 of you would have nothing to write.
It's good to have Lilly and the Ellison guy in here.
They make it more fun, and really that's what this is.
Nothing we say here is really going to matter, so enjoy their opinions, and have a laugh, even if it's at yourself.

freetothink
you are saddly mistaken to assume this is the only place we converse. We share ideas here but away from this site as well. Unlike libs we are not locked into group think. We explore and exchange ideas and use them elsewhere

The genii is out of the bottle
I admire Dr. Sowell, but I want to see a reasonable proposal for returning the entire transportation system to a free market footing, not just the bridges.

You see, the number of cars we own and drive is a direct result of government-funded roadways. A subsidized, toll-free, national highway system is the reason the US is flooded with cars, while Europe is not. The deterioration of our inner cities, the sprawl of our suburbs, the networks of roadways, are all distortions of the market caused by government-subsidized roads.

Ecology-minded activists should pay attention here: you want the US to reduce its dependence on petroleum? You want to reduce urban smog? you want to minimize the heat contribution of urban heat islands?

The answer to all of the above is, sell the highways to corporate interests, and get the government out of the highway business. No more subsidized roads.

The result would be widespread public transportation, denser cities with fewer cars, revitalization of downtown areas. Less pollution. Less heat. Lower gasoline demand.

Sounds like heaven, right?

Now do you understand why we keep advocating keeping the government OUT of things?

Analogy from work
I work for an educational institution, developing/maintaining software.

Since we have no real bottom line, the incentives are for us to develop new, flashy "cutting edge" software, rather than maintain the old software. In fact, the incentives are perverse, in that, when an old application breaks, it gets us increased funding to develop a "new version", even though we are also to blame for the old broken one.

So, we have a dozen developers writing new software and one maintaining and fixing a decade worth of old software.

The incentives for politicians are the same.

Fixing and maintaining anything is a low priority. New projects, new jobs, new initiatives get politicians noticed. And, if something should go wrong with an old project, well it is just another reason to give the politicians more money for a new project to fix the old.

Watch how much new spending and many meaningless "safety project" makework schemes come out of this bridge collapse. Once again, rather than learning that the government does not do anything very well, we believe that by giving just a little more money and more power to the state that has consistently failed us, we will finally make it work properly.

Inkling revival
There is one flaw in your theory.

If the automakers see enough of a drop in the sales of their autos, or builders start to see a significant decline in new housing, or a dozen other industries see private toll roads working against their interests, they may band together and subsidize roads to keep their bottom line. Thus, we may still end up with free roads (from the perspective of the consumer).

Then again, if that were to happen, they would doubtless still be better maintained and managed than government highways, and, of course, we would all be free of the tax burden we now pay to subsidize the roads.

Don't Tread on Me - - - - - 8:15 AM

I would be fairly sure that the real reason the politician you referred to actually has his eye on the area is some close partners ideas about developing the area into something much bigger and more important (to them) than it now is.

Check out who has been buying land there in the past and present.

Follow the money, right.??.

This is an old ploy.....................

Inkling revival pt2
Actually, back in college when people asked me how I could possible support privatizing roads, and asked who would possibly fund them, I made the following argument:

Some will doubtless become toll roads. Probably toll consortia will arise, where you pay one yearly fee and can use any toll roads run by consortium members. But many will probably be partly subsidized by interests who want roads: The car makers, trucking companies, tourist bureaus of various states, large entertainment venues, etc.

I still think that is possible. Though I have now added one more group: housing developers. They already build streets within their own communities. It would probably be in their interest to also build/maintain feeder roads, and even stretches of highways if the costs are low enough to be offset by the profits more suburban developments will bring.

Lastly, there is always private initiative, where local communities will voluntarily band together to own and maintain their own roads privately. The examples are there. In Baltimore, the Charles Village neighborhood was so fed up with inadequate policing, they voluntarily hired their own security. Why wouldn't some communities band together to pay for their own roads? especially once they became wealthier by not paying taxes for road maintenance.

Dr. Sowell
On the Money! Not only do we need term limits we need to also be able to sue the govt. There is no accountability. Their incompetence would be funny if it weren't so scary.

Lilly and Ellison: A little cheese with that whine? You two amaze me. You pay taxes and never question where and how your tax dollars are being spent. The first and foremost reason for paying taxes is infrastructure!

What a MORON!!
Just as the left has their crosses to bear with drooling crazies out there, the right gets to have their's too.

Good old Fred Phelps is up to his typical nonsense.

"The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., plans to stage protests at funerals of victims of the 35W bridge collapse to state that God made the bridge fall because he hates America, and especially Minnesota, because of its tolerance of homosexuality."

The article is from Think Progress, but who cares. My guess is that they aren't making this up about the dear Reverend Phelps.

Actually, Lilly...
...I've been waiting for somebody on your side of the political fence to find a way to blame Bush/Cheney/Rove for the bridge collapse. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Your argument that tax rates are too low to support adequate maintenance of our public infrastructure kind of misses Dr. Sowell's point. It doesn't matter how much money is available. The realities of politics would cause the extra money to be spent on shiny new projects and programs, not maintaining the old ones.

But the bigger problem is the old saying in the construction trade: "Close enough for government work." In any public-sector operation, doing things right isn’t all that important. Get the bridge built on time, without going over budget? Great! If that means cutting a corner here or there, so what? That will be somebody else's problem, thirty or forty years from now. Right now I'll get re-elected, or get a promotion, or a bigger budget, or whatever.

You may think "profit" is a dirty word, but the need to make a profit enforces a powerful discipline that just doesn't exist in the public sector. Here in California, we had an overpass collapse in an earthquake a few years ago. It was a vital artery, and having it out of commission for years would have been quite a hardship for a lot of people and businesses.

A contractor was hired to rebuild it, and there were financial incentives for getting it done quickly. That "greedy" contractor rebuilt that overpass faster than anybody thought possible, to everybody's benefit.

Perhaps the answer is to build financial incentives into contracts for building public infrastructure. If you build the bridge, you get a bonus for every year it passes a safety inspection. Maybe the bonus increases each year, so the contractor has a powerful incentive to build the bridge in such a way that it stands up for a good, long time.

minn bridge
according to rush , someone from a clinton think tank links the bridge collapse to global warming. I wonder what other theories we are going to hear. I think that aliens landed on the bridge and their spaceship was so heavy it cracked the supports

private bridges
There is a privately-owned bridge spanning the Delaware River (between NJ and PA) at Dingman's Ferry, PA. Because the publicly-owned bridges compete with it, it is seriously outmoded. Also the public road system provides only the most arcane, difficult connections to it. The difficulty with privatization of something like a bridge is that the "private" owners will be beholden to politicians for the public factors which can make or kill their success. In those circumstances, "private" owners become an extension of the government.

Lolo ...
quite possibly they don't pay taxes or are members of an inflation proof industry into which the government pours tons of money to assure their loyalty.

Again ... 'HAS ANYONE PURCHASED THOMAS SOWELL'S BOOK 'EVER WONDER WHY?'
You won't regret it.

Sorry I had to yell like that, but you guys keep interrupting while I'm interrupting, and you're rude!

Repairing & replacing bridges
Dr. Sowell:

I usually agree with you. But not this time.

I just retired from a state Department of Transportation. I think your theory is misdirected. Many bridges are known to be in urgent need of maintence, repair, and replacements. The sympton of this major problem is lack of funding. But the actual cause is politics. To solve a problem you MUST address the cause, not the symptom! You recognized this. However, your solution does not address the cause. Having the politicians "pass the buck" to private enterprise is not a solution. It is simply a change in one form of the lack of political accountability to another form of the lack of political accountability! IMHO!


He's your sick puppy...
...you clean up the newspaper.

dogjudge writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 1:00 PM

"What a MORON!!
Just as the left has their crosses to bear with drooling crazies out there, the right gets to have their's too.

Good old Fred Phelps is up to his typical nonsense."

Ran in Democrat primary five times, for mayor twice, supported Gore, praised Castro and Hussein, calls fallen US soldiers fools, criticized Reagan (and sued him for appointing an ambassador to the Vatican), Rehnquist, Reggie White, Fred (Mr.) Rogers, Jews, Catholics, Falwell, and gets support from the ACLU, and is a disbarred convicted perjurer (like Slick Willie), and gets protested by conservative groups.

Phelps and much of his family are typical left-wing dogs incapable of being house-trained - you're a bad dog judge, or quite ignorant.

A bridge Too Far Gone by Sowell
If you want to provide an incentive for polititions to do the right thing, provide one that Thomas Jefferson embraced on Shay's Rebellion: He wrote to James Madison-
“I hold that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
He wrote to Colonel William Smith-
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Our present politions are as responsible for the bridge deaths as if they shot the victums dead, but our liberal press just won't hold them to task - Same for 911 (no talking between intelligence agencies).

Dr. Sowell fails to realize...
...the purpose of government in this commentary. One of the primary purposes for government is to create and maintain infrastructure, which includes building new roads and bridges, widening current roads, and refurbishing or replacing old bridges. The problem is that government instead tries to get into everything, including entitlements and social programs. Billions of our tax dollars are spent on special interest groups and social programs instead of infrastructure and defense!

While privatization sounds tempting, huge legal ramifications could occur such as ownership disputes. As far as widening roads, corporations could have the power to take land and condemn it. Privatization could open a HUGE door for money hungry lawyers as lawsuits would dramtically increase for the thousands of accidents that happen everyday, including minor fender benders.

The solution is very simple: keep government out of the business of handing out money and make it fund its primary responsibilities. Actually accomplishing this task is the hard part with all of the mega-spenders in our Congress!

Basic Economics
The some readers of the article still don't get it. Please read Dr. Sowell's book, "Basic Economics". It will give you MORE insight in his position. Economics is not about THEORY, it is about principles. They have been proven over time.
Private companies are more efficient because they have limited resources, but they have unlimited wants. They are forced to work and become effcient in order to stay in business. Government has limited resources also, but they can raise taxes to get more money without any recourse. There is NO incentive for Government to become more effcient. They can just spend more money! Who audits THEIR BOOKS? No one does. That is why EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM STINKS becuase they do not allow competition!
The private sector has to WORK for these engineering contracts through competition. The private companies have the incentive of the profit motive, it creates a better product at a lower price. We the consumers are the beneficiaries of this process. This has been proven over and over again.
As for Lilly and the Ralph "Invisible Man" Ellison; keep reading Dr Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams', and you articles you will change.


It didn't take much time...
for the Evil Leftist buzzards and vultures in Minnesota to come out after the bridge collapse. I'm talking about how our local DFLers are blaming it ALL on Tim Pawlenty. Nevermind, the bridge was built 40 years ago when Tim was just a little tyke. Nevermind that Dems and Reps have swapped control over state government from time to time over those 40 years. Nevermind that the Dems didn't think road and bridge infrastructure was all that important; they preferred spending transportation money on buses and light rail, thinking that was much more PC in the era of "global warming."

It won't work. To those who think you'll win Minnesota elections stepping over warm Minnesota bodies, ___________________!!!!

CYA
Is Dr. Sowell's book on the web? I like reading his columns.

Mass transit
Another folly that liberals want tons of government money to fund instead of our CURRENT infrastructure. While light rail sounds neat, it is only necessary in the most urbanized areas of any city. However, these Demwits are trying to use billions of dollars to place mass transit furhter into the suburbs, claiming it will decrease highway traffic!

Light rail should SUPPLEMENT the current infrastructure we have, which is roads and highways. Therefore, the majority of funds should be spent on current roads, bridges, and highways. Why is something so elementary so complex for these government "leaders"??

Bridges and government
Keep the feds out as much as possible for funding the highway system. A national interstate system was needed and is a federal task but, the bulk of the highway system can be state funded.

Another thing is "ownership of infrastructure." "We the people" can "own" the bridges and even some roads but let private business bid on taking care of them for what they gain in tolls. If the standards required are written correctly and we have good inspections, there is competition even when there is one bridge because the bids can be let out every few years.

The I-35 bridge on a "super-corridor" is used by Mexicans and Canadians too. Not directly but, the trucks that they depend on for the moving of Asian imports and other goods from the U.S., etc. use that bridge. For something like that, where a lot of foreign people benefit from the bridge, I see no problem in a toll system now that computer technology allows it without stopping at toll booths one the system is in place. It can even be set up for only commercial traffic.


All Infrastructure bad
There are solutions but, the majority of Americans have to first understand that the Federal Government is more of a problem than a solution for many things including our infrastructure. And, it isn't just bridges. On March 10th, long before this happened, this was on the Financial Sense News Hour

Quote:
the American Society of Engineers have issued several reports, and what they said is that America's infrastructure is crumbling... aviation .. D+ ... Bridges are given a C rating. Dams are given a D rating. Since 1998 the number of unsafe dams has risen by 33% to more than 3500. ..drinking a D-.. power grid has fallen to a D. ...Hazardous waste a D. Navigable water ways – ..has fallen to D-.Public parks are C-...rail is down to C-....Roads are D; schools are D. Security an I. Solid waste systems, or recycling systems, a C. And transit systems are D+; and waste water D-.
http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/BP/2007/0310.html
=====================================

Wake up America. Our standard of living has been in decline for decades thanks mainly to our Federal Government's policies.

Andrews, 12:42 PM, 12:54 PM
Thanks for responding.

I think my point was that the government has already distorted the market so much that privatization isn't likely to work. This is especially true of local roads leading to housing projects. The entire pattern of urban development has been distorted for 50+ years by government-funded highway projects. There isn't enough $$ in the country to buy the roads and privatize them properly, nor is there law in place for managing the interface between owner and user. Same with the bridges.

That's why I titled my post "The genii is out of the bottle."

I'd love to see a serious proposal for gradually turning roads back to the private sector and/or local governments.

By the way -- government-funded superhighways are the reason, the ONLY reason, that the US doesn't have a great rail system like Europe or Japan.

Government Waste
The FAILED War on Drugs, wastes over 70 BILLION dollars a year; it has gone on for 70 years. Yet none of you complain. Where in the Constitution does it allow Congress, or any one else, to establish PROHIBITION? How much bridge repair would that buy, even for an inefficient government?

Term limits are the ONLY way to regain control of the government at EVERY level. Politicians point to shiny new projects for only one reason: it gets them re-elected.

I agree that the libtards are idiots, but don't be like them; they try to stifle dissent and conversation. At least we have a few who are interested in learning how we view things, even if they aren't capable of understanding our position.

WarlordX
"The FAILED War on Drugs, wastes over 70 BILLION dollars a year ... How much bridge repair would that buy, even for an inefficient government?"

That would affect only federal bridge projects, but the point's taken; any spending item necessary affects all other spending items. Still, you surely must recognize that Sowell's point about incentives applies here, right? that the governmental choices are distorted by the government's artificial cost/reward structure?

Ironically, drug interdiction to prevent illegal substances from being flown or boated in is one of the constitutionally VALID operations of government.

Where The Money Went
I live in Minnesota. There is more than enough money being collected by our DOT to fund sufficient road maintainence. Instead, we got a 3/4 billion dollar system of mass transit whose real primary goal was to congest Minneapolis traffic so badly that it would punish drivers. The new Light Rail system is being proposed to run along University Avenue in St. Paul and cost $1.25 Billion or more. University and Snelling is among the top three busiest intersections in the Twin Cities area. This is an obvious ploy by the Green Party (MN is one of the few states with an active and powerful Green Party that actually gets elected by the local socialists) to make driving a motor vehicle an ordeal, while simultaneously providing an alternate means of transportation.

The problem? The current cost-benefit analysis of Light Rail, done by the government building agencies themselves, estimates that for every dollar spent on the project we get 42 cents. We LOSE 56 cents on the dollar. Want to know where all of that road repair money went? That's where. We spent our transportation tax dollars on a monetary black hole designed by environmental socialists to punish users of motor vehicles, and we continue to lose money on the Light Rail project to this day. Worse yet, they are holding a vote to expand the Light Rail system. That's where the road repairs went.

Remember this at the voting booth please, my fellow Minnesotans.

More is not the answer
Less is the answer. Less dollars to waste. Keep cutting it back till they can only address infrastructure. Why do we even have a government(s)? What essential services should they be addressing? If not roads then what? Social services for illegal aliens? Anybody remember Nero? I smell smoke.

Finger pointing time again?
Why does it take a tragedy before any changes are to be made?

This is what happens when Republicans are in charge, sheeple--all they think of is chopping, cutting and slashing the Federal government every change they get. Hence, the states have no money to fix the infrastructure. Besides all our money is in Iraq fixing their infrastructure which is so much more important than fixing our infrastructure doncha know! Republicans also put profit before people which is why they always rally around the private sector solution to everything!

Someday 6,000 people are going to die on these deathtrap bridges as our infrastructure continues to crumble.

no bs
there are millions that go to states in federal highway funds plus states collect taxes to maintain their infra-structures. Before casting blame why not get the whole story and see who was responsible. If this bridge was in such need of repair why didn't the bridge inspectors find the flaws and close the thing down. Your simple-minded attack that repubs are only interested in profit at the risk of citizens lives is both stupid and simple-minded

Rich L.
writes: Tuesday, August, 07, 2007 7:24 AM
"Dr. Sowell, I think you were on the
right track about changing something fundamental, but you slipped off the track to privatization when you should have continued to TERM LIMITS! That would take the "re-elected" part of the equation out. One term at each level of government consecutively, allowing for re-election after a 4-5 year hiatus in the private sector (no lobbying).

Once "re-election" has been removed, perhaps those elected will actually act in the interenst of the country or at least in the interests of those that elected them. Contributions to candidates would be restricted to personal donations only, no corporate donations, no PACs, no party money allowed, no personal wealth allowed. A candidate can only give himself the same amount restricted to anyone else, lets say we raise that amount to $4,000-5,000.

Now the problem becomes how to we get those crooks in Washington to vote themselves out of their jobs??"

Your thoughts are worthy of a complete second posting! Professional politicians are not good for our country! There are only two things on their minds...drawing attention to themselves and raising money for the next election.

Dr. Sowell
Great column!

If I remember correctly, Minnesota has an abundance of budget surplus just sitting there waiting to be used. So WHY did the powers that be not see the need to maintain the roads in a state that has some of the most severe weather in the country?????

For sure money was found for a couple of new sports stadiums!!!

PRIORITIES, FOLKS, PRIORITIES!!!!!

But then ...
Who has time for these bridges? We already pay $338 billion a year for felons [aka illegal aliens] for their education, health care needs, welfare, medicaid, WIC, school lunches, and incarceration.
Taxes are the way to go as far as infrastructure is concerned. After all, i heard Rush Limbaugh's alter ego, Ed Schultz say so.

To All
I continue to be fascinated by the conservative attitude that the world isn't big enough for all of us.

Re privatization: if you privatize a bridge, you can charge a toll to all who cross it. But if you privatize a dam, how will you charge? How about if you privatize the streets in your town---how will you charge? How about if you privatize your town park---will the owner charge children for going on the swings and slides? The idea becomes ridiculous.

A nation should be more than people trying to make money from one another. And that (for the poster who asked) is why liberals hate such emphasis on profit-taking. It's as if your elderly neighbor asks if you will drive her to the doctor, and you say, sure, but it will cost you $10.

Overloaded Trucks
I once heard the interstate highways, including bridges, would last one hundred years if not for overloaded trucks. These rolling hazards also are causing the government to have to subsidize the railroads to keep them afloat. I know a state trooper who caught a truck weighing over 400,000 lbs. The legal limit is like 80,000, I think.

Sowell
Dr.Sowell is usually spot on in his assessments.We do have a couple of roads that recently were put out to long-term lease by the state of Illinois and Indiana. The entire Indiana toll road, Chicago Skyway,and the toll road system in Il. are in the hands of a consortium, Macquarie Infrastructure Group,of Australia, and Cintra of Spain. Keep an eye on this, to see if they will maintain the roads, and bridges,or if they just want to cash out. Comment to Joe: I will be glad to show you what I paid out in taxes per year on a class 8 type semi.Highway use tax, registration fees, fuel permits,etc. Not complaining, just explaining. If any of you would like you can go to OOIDA.com, and follow the links.

Sowell
Glasser: The Interstate System of Highways was built to take military loads up to 100 tons. As far as a truck weighing 400,000lbs., yes,it is possible, but is that a regular load,or was it a permit load? In this day and age, the troopers are very good at spotting overweight trucks without their being on a scale.Having spent 37 years in the industry,I can say yes,there are those who run overweight, but those are fools who deserve to be caught and punished. Seems like with the ever-growing use of intermodal containers coming from all over,the port truckers are dealing with a LARGE number of these overweight problems. Glasser, please take time to find out the facts about an industry that is vital to our economy. There are stories galore like the one you mentioned.There also is a wealth of info out there about the industry. We are'nt all a bunch of pilled up cowboys who run roughshod over the vast fruited plain.

To Various
It's impressive how many conservatives want all who disagree with them to be gone. Among townhall posts I have seen a stated wish to "line up and shoot" all lawyers, all CPAs, all government employees, and all liberals. Liberals/Democrats are routinely called Communists, Socialists, America-haters, and terrorist-lovers. Last night a poster called Democrats "social outcasts". I am frequently invited to leave townhall, as are other liberals/Democrats---apparently conservatives want to hear their own opinions echoed back to them but do not want to chat with anybody holding other opinions. There's a serialized online novella put up by Peppermint (google "The Diary of Juliet Smith") that has the following plot: the government has been taken over by liberals, so the liberals are, one by one, being killed by "patriots"; usually they are taken out with a single head-shot and then fed to dogs.

We are a two-party nation. Political opponents often disagree. Does anyone here but me find it alarming when so much emphasis is placed on "agree with me or get out"?

To Beowolf
Government employees are not "answerable to nobody". My husband was an officer of the Food and Drug Administration for thirty years. He was indeed answerable not only to his superiors, who rated his performance on a regular basis, but to Congress, before whom he was called to testify. He was answerable to the courts of the United States, before whom he testified as an expert witness. He was answerable to the citizens, who contacted him directly and to whom he directly responded. He was answerable to the governments of other nations, to whom he consulted as part of his job. And, finally, he was answerable to the ethics and integrity of his profession.

I am appalled that you think only workers in the private sector carry out their jobs with energy. There are more ways to serve one's country than joining the military. You owe an apology to the many civil service workers who serve faithfully and honestly---and who, by the way, do have other options for employment, and who choose government because they believe it is honorable work.

lilly
many work for the govt for the protection of civil service knowing they have life long employment better benefits and no accountability as in private industry. Having been a govt employee I can truthfully say I have never encountered so many unqualified workers who still were allowed to pick up a paycheck

Lilly
What you don't seem to understand is that this is a "conservative" site. Read the "about us" posting at the bottonm of the page....and then leave.

Lilly lilly lilly leggs
Nice try. No cigar. Of course you probably hate cigars also.

Don't go, Lilly!
Your views have gotten less extreme lately, and your arguments more reasonable. At first you weren't really somebody with whom a conservative could have any kind of dialog (apart from mutual name-calling).

I think TH is starting to rub off on you, little by little. It's been interesting to watch. Keep posting!

Cutting off your own nose....
Once again Dr. Sowell outdoes himself by advancing an even more more inane solution to the problem of a government that doesn't know why it exists in the first place. Tell us Dr. Sowell? If market forces afe the panacea for everything you seem to believe it is, then why is the US prison system descending into a gulag structure that would embarrass Stalin himself? Why is the US healthcare system so expensive despite statistical markers of success that mirror those of a Third World country rather than the "best in the world!" mythology that you and your corporate cheerleaders continue to deceive your fellow Americans with so shamelessly?

Dr. Sowell. Word up. The Cold War is over. The exaggerated and often completely false anti-socialist rhetoric that Cold War military propagandists began to disseminate, initially as a strategic hedge against the spread of communism, has now come to have a very unfortunate effect. After decades of hearing the same old tune, I suppose it was quite predictable that later generations will have forgotten the reason why such lies were told, and would actually coming to be believe it themselves.

So, as I said: the Cold War is over. You won! Now you are only cutting off your own nose to spite a enemy that no longer exists. It's time to grow up and move on.

Representative Government
34,000 lobbyists...............

Who represents the people?

Private sector fails the process, too
Too often the collapse of buildings and other structures comes from the private sector using inferior construction methods, substitution of inferior goods and/or failure to do better than what is spec'd. Yes, public sector structures are built with private sector labor. Sowell's solution to resolve those issues is to rely on a civil court system that supposedly mitigates those kinds of activities. History has proven otherwise. In fact, economic investigation has shown where good law is in place (e.g., lemon laws) costs savings increase, quality improves and profits are at least not harmed if not improved.

The principal issue with government is the principle of government being in a position to force people to do other than what they want to do. Sowell's solution to bridges and roads would be obviously correct if people demanded roads and bridges be built and owned by private entities and the private sector responded by creating the supply that feeds the demand. No such situation is present of which I am aware.

This is one of Sowell's weaker writings. Sometimes relying too much on principle fails to match reality. We are not God so we rely on empirical evidence to help us think. And by what I have seen I wonder even if God is perfect.

Term Limits?
How you going to get them.

Just like it did for the President's term limit, it takes an amendment to the Constitution.

Can you really see "career politicians" supporting an amendment for that. While they both wanted to limit a President that was popular in case it was one from the "other party," they don't want to end their own career.

Same with trying to get state conventions to start the amendment. It isn't going to happen with the bunch we have in there.

Also, it is the "other guy" usually, voters want limited, not their own. If it was their own, they could run a candidate against him in the primary or vote for the other party for one term to get him out.

Don't look for any support for this until voters get a lot more upset than they are. That will probably be in just a few years when they see what the "boomer retirement" does to entitlements and the immigration of the 67-100 million Congress is shooting for, begins.

Public Responsibility, Private Solutions
Frederick A Hayek implied that government may maintain responsibility for a public good or service while not actually running the program at hand. In Hayek’s case he talked about the example of public education, e.g. private run, but publicly funded schools.

With respect to public transporation infrastructure the critical questions are:

How do you create a competitive environment in the area of operation and maintenance of public infrastructure?

How do you create a formula for reimbursing private enterprise for these activities while minimizing the interference to the free flow of traffic? And,

How do you properly supervise these activities to ensure that the public whom you serve is getting its money’s worth?

I don’t know the answers to these questions, but I suspect that there are better solutions than the ones we are using right now.

I live in New Jersey and what I see here is the government repaving portions of our Interstate Highways that are in less need of repair than other portions of the same Interstates in other locations around the State. For example, the five miles or so of Interstate 78 coming in from Pennsylvania is as bumpy and in more need of repair than any portion of Interstate 287. Yet it is I287 that has been getting the money! They paved and then repaved a portion of I78 near a weight scale project about 10 miles from the PA border in a period of about 12 months. It was a waste of resources! I don’t see the logic in the way they spend our money.

I invite anyone that wishes to do so to take a crack solutions to the questions posed. Maybe you even challenge the premise, but I would ask you provide an alterative solution.


The Evil Profiteer and Bridges
Ok Liberals, get your towel to wipe the foam away from your mouth, there is a company in America that can handle big construction jobs like maintaining a bunch of bridges, its called Halliburton, and I'd bet a years salary that if they took over the bridges, they wouldn't be collapsing anytime soon, if ever.

Profit is the driving force to provide a superior product or service, so, and here is a lesson in economics for you still living in your mothers basement liberals, when you make a profit, you can continue to provide that superior service or product, holy cow, what a concept!


Profit, the second greatest concept next to air conditioning. :)

bridge column
I find that column tragically amusing .. since it is usually the conservatives that want to cut funding for infrastructure repair (unless hgalliburton and/or KBR are involved) .. and it might be pointed out that logistically ..it's easier to renovate and repair a bridge in place rather than spend money to obtain new land for the approaches and build a new bridghe from stratch .. putting up a whole new brooklynn bridge would require buying millions of dollars of land for new approaches .. totally disrupt exisitng neighborhoods and be bogged down in litagation for years ... and it should be noted I-35W is an Interstate Highway .. and federally funded ..and around the country .. alot of bridges are railroad bridges, which have been ignored by this business entity

local monopoly
conservatives spent decades arguing the mistaken government policy of granting local monopolies in the energy sector and some others. Now they take the opposite position on transportation infrastructure. Why?
You were right the first time.

Private roads already work
Private roads already work and government bridges already fail. Don't bother trying to tell a liberal - their government is best theology does not permit them to believe you regardless of the facts.

The book "STREET SMART - Competition, Entrepreneurship, and the Future of Roads"
examines private, market-based alternatives for road services, both in theory and practice. The book explores testing and licensing vehicles and drivers, management of government-owned road facilities, franchising, and outright private ownership. The book traces the history of private roads in Great Britain and the United States and examines contemporary examples of entrepreneurial innovation in road pricing, privatization, and marketization in Singapore, California, Ghana, Norway, and England.

Thomas Sowell is correct
The Federal government agrees with Sowell in describing the problems with governmet infastructure ( including the political motivations involved) read "Fragile Foundatings: A Report on America's Public Works - Final report to the President and Congress" by the national council on public improvement febuary 1988, in compliance with works improvement act of 1984 ( p.l. 98-501)
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