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Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Catholic Case Against Barack
by Pat Buchanan
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In the Pennsylvania primary, Barack Obama rolled up more than 90 percent of the African-American vote. Among Catholics, he lost by 40 points. The cool liberal Harvard Law grad was not a good fit for the socially conservative ethnics of Altoona, Aliquippa and Johnstown.

But if Barack had a problem with Catholics then, he has a far higher hurdle to surmount in the fall, with those millions of Catholics who still take their faith and moral code seriously.

For not only is Barack the most pro-abortion member of the Senate, with his straight A+ report card from the National Abortion Rights Action League and Planned Parenthood. He supports the late-term procedure known as partial-birth abortion, where the baby's skull is stabbed with scissors in the birth canal and the brains are sucked out to end its life swiftly and ease passage of the corpse into the pan.

Partial-birth abortion, said the late Sen. Pat Moynihan, "comes as close to infanticide as anything I have seen in our judiciary."

Yet, when Congress was voting to ban this terrible form of death for a mature fetus, Michelle Obama was signing fundraising letters pledging that, if elected, Barack would be "tireless" in keeping legal this "legitimate medical procedure."

And Barack did not let the militants down. When the Supreme Court upheld the congressional ban on this barbaric procedure, Barack denounced the court for denying "equal rights for women."

As David Freddoso reports in his new best-seller, "The Case Against Barack Obama," the Illinois senator goes further than any U.S. senator has dared go in defending what John Paul II called the "culture of death."

Thrice in the Illinois legislature, Obama helped block a bill that was designed solely to protect the life of infants already born, and outside the womb, who had miraculously survived the attempt to kill them during an abortion. Thrice, Obama voted to let doctors and nurses allow these tiny human beings die of neglect and be tossed out with the medical waste.

How can a man who purports to be a Christian justify this?

If, as its advocates contend, abortion has to remain legal to protect the life and health, mental and physical, of the mother, how is a mother's life or health in the least threatened by a baby no longer inside her -- but lying on a table or in a pan fighting for life and breath?

How is it essential for the life or health of a woman that her baby, who somehow survived the horrible ordeal of abortion, be left to die or put to death? Yet, that is what Obama voted for, thrice, in the Illinois Senate.

When a bill almost identical to the one Barack fought in Illinois, the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, came to the floor of the U.S. Senate in 2001, the vote was 98 to 0 in favor. Barbara Boxer, the most pro-abortion member of the Senate before Barack came, spoke out on its behalf:

"Of course, we believe everyone should deserve the protection of this bill. ... Who could be more vulnerable than a newborn baby? So, of course, we agree with that. ... We join with an 'aye' vote on this. I hope it will, in fact, be unanimous."

Obama says he opposed the Born Alive Infants Protection Act because he feared it might imperil Roe v. Wade. But if Roe v. Wade did allow infanticide or murder, which is what letting a tiny baby die of neglect or killing it outright amounts to, why would he not want that court decision reviewed and amended to outlaw infanticide?

Is the right to an abortion so sacrosanct to Obama that killing by neglect or snuffing out of the life of tiny babies outside the womb must be protected if necessary to preserve that right?

Obama is an abortion absolutist. "I could find no instance in his entire career," writes Freddoso, "in which he voted for any regulation or restriction on the practice of abortion."

In 2007, Barack pledged that, in his first act as president, he will sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which would cancel every federal, state or local regulation or restriction on abortion. The National Organization for Women says it would abolish all restrictions on government funding of abortion.

What we once called God's Country would become the nation on earth most zealously committed to an unrestricted right of abortion from conception to birth.

Before any devout Catholic, Evangelical Christian or Orthodox Jew votes for Obama, he or she might spend 15 minutes in Chapter 10 of Freddoso's "Case Against Barack." For if, as Catholics believe, abortion is the killing of an unborn child, and participation in an abortion entails automatic excommunication, how can a good Catholic support a candidate who will appoint justices to make Roe v. Wade eternal and eliminate all restrictions on a practice Catholics legislators have fought for three decades to curtail?

And which Catholic priests and prelates will it be who give invocations at Obama rallies, even as Mother Church fights to save the lives of unborn children whom Obama believes have no right to life and no rights at all?

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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What a desillusion!
As i read this article, i found it very repulsive this fact about our elected candidate for the presidency of the USA. Not only i found this repulsive but very ashame of this man who so calls himself a christian. Why calling himself a christian when he's opposing someone the right to live? What happened to rights of everyone? Every human being no matter the race, color, ethnic group, etc...has the right to live. What happened to the 14th amendment as stated in the congress in the year of 1866 as part of the reconstruction plan? "no state shall deprived any persons life, liberty, or property..." Why would a catholic who follows the catholic religion vote for a man who is not only going against a law that has been established for over 100 years, but also God's law. God's law which is no matter what, has the right to be born and have a life.

A Catholic Case Against Barack . . .
B.O. (a.k.a. Senator Stinker) is classic anti-Christ. He's not THE Anti-Christ, but he fits the mold of all those since Christ who are so utterly full of themselves, they just can't help promoting themselves as God/Messiah. "By their works you will know them."

Senator Stinker is a crook. He says he stands for a "New Politics." I challenge everyone to go home, write down what normative politicians do, and then pay close attention to how Barrack . . . outstrips any and all dirty deeds of all our current politicos. His zeal for whacking babies is the proof in the pudding.

And for any Catholics out there who are foolish enough to believe abortion isn't an issue and doesn't matter: you are wrong. Abortion would make Hitler proud (Bonnie). And babies are innocent because, although they are born under original sin, they are not yet developed enough to exercise free will.

Good would reign so much more effectively if 75% of the Catholics in this country actually new about, and believed, the Faith of the Church Christ founded in His Own Precious Blood.

poor loser, alph/meg


I pity the fool, meg/alph --

Now that his credibility's shot, he slinks away. What else can he do?

Not only does he think nobody but him has ever been to NY; he attacks the Catholics of New York out of hatred for ME. --Me and you;

Let's never lose sight of the fact, these creeps are motivated by hatred; PURE HATRED. He thinks he's out of gas, and instead of conceding he's been taken apart fair and square, what does he try?

File false charges here against the clergy in New York City! Where nobody would be able to touch him!

A coward's methods; strike hard by lying, and then QUIT the scene of your cowardly lie. Nobody knows where to find you. Good riddance. He failed miserably. Let him have fun with other atheists and creeps. He never had a home here.

Broadway god
Thank you!!! The best compliment I have ever received was when you said that I, among others, are of "deep faith."

Good bye for now dred
I have tickets for tonite, with my gay son and his boyfriend. Broadway show!!

Have you ever lived in New York City? In the beginning of the 21st century it is the center of the world. More Liberals than any other place, more gay people, more Jews. Center of finance, of publishing, of computers, of fashion, intellectual center of the country.
Absolute hell for people like you and True2Life. We live in touch with reality, more so than any other place
We are the greatest target of terrorism than most other places in the country. But as you have seen, we have voted 80% against the village idiot from Texas; we know that he is the worst president ever.
This is also a Catholic center, the church being probably the biggest landlord in the city. The current resident at St. Patrick's is a miserable ignorant little imp of a man. When he was a bishop in Bridgeport Conn., he was alwys very busy shielding, protecting, aiding and abetting the pedophile priests in his flock. They came first, before any consideration of raped children. "The Church takes care of her own". For his high services, the last pope, who thought the whole thing was made up by homosexual American priests, rewarded him with the New Yorck archdiocese. I don't have to tell you that he is universally despised here. His predecessor, now, there was a real adversary. This puny one is not worth spit.
It has been very amusing, dealing with you, true2, and ther rest of the deep faith trolls. Never forget, this country was founded by agnostics, who banished any mention of Christianity from the Declaration or the Constitution. Ever since, you have tried hard to make this a Christian country, but Christian dogma and democratic spirit are incompatible.
What you consider as blasphemy is the voice of truth; and you can't take the truth.
Bye for now. I am sure I will meet you again in some other thread, lurking under a rock.

to al/meg once more
His remarks,

" --no question "we have Russia,"

God LOVES Russia and Russia LOVES God." That's it.

Catholics do not underestimate the love of God. For loving Russian sinners; all the MORE praise to Him! "

"Holy -- (It isn't, it's only "MOTHER Russia") Orthodox Christian, Putin . . . wears a big cross around his neck."

. . . Russian tanks--etc., were promptly blessed by an Orthodox priest."

It might be so. I hope you don't object.

"Yes, we know about the advocatus diavoli,"

(Not if your words make up your belief.)

"the procedure for creating saints & miracles,"

No one creates saints. They live in holiness. Would you know?

"John Paul II considered it a miracle the bullet didn't kill him, right?"

Reply-- Yes; the man who fired at him thought so too. It really had to be miraculous. (Eat your heart out, blasphemer.)

"[The] Church is (about) to proclaim JP II a saint. He will be (beatified), a couple of miracles will be found; (BE GRANTED) --had cancer, she prayed to JP II and, miracle! A remission!

There are precedents.

" . . . the devil's advocate, some monsignor or cardinal (do you expect, an adversary?) --Reply:

We trust in God the Holy Spirit. You don't have to. You're irrelevant to a devil's advocate. (BTW-- NO Cardinal is ever a devil's advocate. Keep your Pampers on.)

" . . . a new saint . . . proclaimed ... will be, patron of ant(i)-gay forces?"

Catholics aren't "anti-gay," that new Polish saint won't want gays to be damned. He'll likely pray for their salvation. And YES-- He'll be cannonized a saint.

". . . Christianity is the best scam ever."

No-- Homophobia's a scam.

It's all conveniently made-up psychobabble nobody ever believed.

dear truetolife:


Our resident blasphemer hasn't the guts to investigate the faith of Catholics. He'd rather maintain his blinded unholy life which only leads to everlasting punishment.

I thought he said there was a gay son. If not; well I rejoice for him. No one would wish that on a father; though a cross is nothing to be ashamed of.

If he blasphemes here every day, it won't cause Jesus pain. He above all knows how helpless the damned are, in this life and the next. We must always remember, Jesus cried real tears and suffered terrible agony on the cross; precisely for souls like this one; who know not what they do. If we react furiously at them, we trivialize what Jesus did even for them. Out of divine love!

Today is a solemn feast of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Let us ask her holy intercession for souls who live in darkness and blaspheme God.

and by the way
you may think that you love your son--but why would you want him to die? Is it because you think that you are God the Father? Do you think it is your son who will die to save others? You obviously see yourself as a god. And you ARE willing to sacrifice your son to the god of sex--which you both bow down to. Pitiful. You're mixing "love" with "hate."

man who thinks of himself as above all
others: you're silly!

Dred, True2Life
Is that the best you can do? Is that the best that your Church can pit against reality? Things must be much worse than I thought.
True2, fairies and pixies are gone, they disappeared along with the Latin Mass and fishfry on Friday nights.
Calling my son a fairy only shows that you are stuck sometime in the 50s, along with heavy petting, hoop skirts, and panty raids. Besides, read your Bible. Jesus was in his thirties, not married, at a time when they married in their teens. His closest disciple was also the youngest, this pretty boy fisherman from the lake Kinneret. In his gospel, the pretty boy calls himself "hon ho Kyrios egapa", "he, whom the Lord loved". Do I need to spell it out for you?

Dred, no crosses in my family. Nobody who believes in sins. Nobody who believes in your messiah. Just two beautiful young men; I am proud of them, and I love them very much.

The devil? Well, he is very much alive. You worship him every day, each time you let bigotry and fear rule your soul. Your hell is on earth, and it is now. You will experience it, as you see this country accept, state by state, the end of prejudice towards ay people.

nobody's perfect


I'm sorry Alph/Meg is burdened with homosexual children. that's a heavy cross to bear.

But if they live chaste lives, I know Our Lord will save them. It's only sins they have to be afraid of. That, and their disreputable clown of a father. He sold his soul to the devil. His children might be gay. But they are so far better off than him.

drednaught
I see god onto himself is blathering again. He thinks we believe in fairies. Yet, he claims his son is a homosexual. That means that, if he believes in his son, and we KNOW that his son is a "fairy," then HE believes in fairies, right? He also believes in very light loafers.

Louis!!
Hello, there, Luis,

When did they let you out of the asylum? What happened, budget cuts?

You are in the wrong thread Louis. Nobody here but me and a couple of misguided Catholics, who think they have it made; anytime now, JC will be back in all his glory, and they will be riding that sweet chariot to haven

Have you heard? Massachusetts has abolished the stupid 1911 law about gays from other states. One more nail in the coffin of intolerance.
Dopesn't that make you feel warm all over?

Dfrednaught and True
Oh, yeah, there is no question that "we have Russia and Russia has you". Holy mother Russia is now again Orthodox Christian, and Putin himself wears a big cross around his neck
You can be sure that the Russsian tanks and personnel carriers that invaded Georgia were promptly blessed by an Orthodox priest.

Yes dred, we all know about the advocatus diavoli, and about the procedure for creating saints and miracles John Paul II consodered it a miracle that the bullet didn't kill him, right?
So, now your church is trying to proclaim JP II a saint. He will be proclaimed beatus, a couple of miracles will be found (this woman had cancer, she prayed to JP II and, miracle! a remission!), the devil's advocate, some monsignor or cardinal (what do you expect, an adversary?), there will be a pro forma hearing and, voila! anew Polish saint will be proclaimed. What will he be, a patron saint of the ant-gay forces? I told you, christianity is the best scam ever.

drednaught
Good points. And, believe it or not, from your posts I had already figured out your "handle!!!" And its so true--if we have Christ, we have nothing to fear Psalm 27:1.

answer to your question:


Truetolife: "What is your opinion about Fatima and the current state of the world? I've read both that Pope John Paul II "fulfilled" the task of consecrating Russia to Mary and that he didn't fulfill it....although Lucy claimed, before her death, from what I've read, that it was fulfilled." //////////

I have no real opinion. Let me at least give you this counsel:

WE are Christ's Church. In your own heart, then-- Offer that consecration for the Church yourself. I do this too--

You do it with LOVE. There is a Sacred Heart with us in our Church; waiting to hear YOU and ME consecrate Russia and the world. Not to Mary alone, but her Son through her. I believe she would love you for it. However, true,

We must first love Russia. That's the hard part; you only consecrate whom you love. Not as if you fear them. Trust this:

God loves Russia and Russia loves Him. It was Communism, tyranny and anti-semites He rejected during those terrible events. Russia's Christians are very close to the Sacred Heart, IMHO.

keep the faith, truetolife


You and I know the devil is rampant in our streets these years. He encourages atheism and wars. This era is weeding out who's to be rejected by Christ, returning in glory.

We are not to fear; (my name is Dreadnaught, True.) He told us; "I know mine and mine know me." (John 10 :14)




BO is dangerous
Baraq Hussein Obama is a dangerous person. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! GET OUT THERE AND BE AN ACTIVIST AND KEEP THIS MONSTROSITY OF A PERSON AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY!!!!

This family will not wake up the day after the election with any remorse, because we are working actively to destoy BO's dreams of being the the first half black president.

drednaught
What is your opinion about Fatima and the current state of the world? I've read both that Pope John Paul II "fulfilled" the task of consecrating Russia to Mary and that he didn't fulfill it....although Lucy claimed, before her death, from what I've read, that it was fulfilled.

drednaught
It is so refreshing to read a post like yours! So many have no idea whatsoever of the miracles of Lourdes and Fatima. Even atheistic reporters became believers when they attended the "dancing of the sun" miracle which was PROPHESIED and which is precisely why so many thousands showed up for it! There is none so blind as he who "will not" see.

thank you, truetolife
Great post, true--

You slam-dunked that one; but alph/meg is so bigoted nothing impresses him/her.

" . . . the martyrs of the early church, their numbers and stories have been greatly exaggerated by the Church itself."

What a dope! He's never heard of the "devil's advocate" whose strict scrutiny saints must undergo. The investigations of a devil's advocate are PRECISELY to undermine and scandalize a prospective saint ___before he can be acknowledged___ by the Catholic Church.

And the exhumed, intact, inviolate pure bodies of the great saints! Just St Bernadette alone; is a study in glorious sainthood. Her remains are as beautiful, PURE-- today as on the day she died. The spring she uncovered in Lourdes; is still flowing with miraculous water, where the Blessed Virgin revealed it to her.

HUNDREDS of documented MIRACLES have taken place through the waters, which impartially appointed physicians and officials DECLARE absolutely miraculous;

TERMINAL illnesses healed on the SPOT, by the waters of Lourdes!

But a bigot won't care. He became a skoffer, a Catholic-basher, because he's one of Satan's minions. It would require a miracle from heaven to turn this hairy ape around.

speaking of not knowing facts....
Nobody created concentration camps and gas chambers for the benefit of the Christians.

Huh? Go tell that to the thousands of dead catholics. You might want to particularly look into the Jewish born, Edith Stein, who became an atheist from ages 13 to 21. Saw the truth. Became a Catholic nun who always remained true to her Jewish heritage and is now a Catholic saint. She also died in a gas chamber with her sister.
Some atheists have no morality to die for anything but anal sex (their god).

No, it's not all in one book
After all, the vast majority of Catholics for the greatest part of history were illiterate. The priests at least were, for the most part semiliterate and knew abit of Latin, and held the masses in thrall with the stories of life after death.
The history of the Church is remarkable, but it is hardly unique. The Jewish people have suffered far more than any Christians, and often suffered inthe hands of Christians. The Church is over a billion today,while the Jews were a meager few million, and has been on the side of secular authority since the time of Constantine. It often was THE secular authority.
as well. The Jews have survived without scaring their people with tales of hell and demons, without subjecting thousands of people to torture and slow death.
Nobody created concentration camps and gas chambers for the benefit of the Christians.
AS for the martyrs of the early church, their numbers and stories have been greatly exaggerated by the Church itself, after its triumph to power with Constantine. And, of course, there will always be naive people, who are frightened by tales of satan, and are enticed by fake promises of some ideal life after death. The Church leadership over the years has been very good at diplomacy, business and war; feudalism? not a church enemy. The church thrived in feudalism, and does so in capitalism, with the Vatican banks. Fascism didn't touch the church. Only the seventy years of soviet communism, and China today, have curbed somewhat the vast powers of the Church.
Don't throw opinions around, as if we do not know the facts.

a real moron's views
There we see; Meg/Al and the moron's idea of faith.

The odd thing about thousands of those believers going to their crucifixions singing praises to Our Savior; and outlasting violent persecutions --Al/Meg can't imagine in his coked-up dreams; and the miracles that took place in that Holy Church;

The fact the Church can withstand 20 centuries of persecutions, wars, plague, barbarian invasions, natural disasters, feudalism, revolutions, freemasonry, industrial revolution, fascism; capitalism, communism --But UNWILLING TO BEND and faithful to ONE MAN, Jesus Christ;

It didn't register in this dummy's feeble brain! He thought it was all in one BOOK!

god man
damn straight!

True2Life
Topic number 2:
Well there were eyewitnesses watching Caesar crossing the Rubicon, but eyewitnesses are not the point. You see, nobody has written that Caesar and his legions WALKED on the water of the Rubicon, without their feet getting wet. And when Caesar wanted to feed his armies, they didn't exactly cut up two fishes and five loaves, to feed thousands of soldiers.

I believe that Jesus was a historical person, that he was from Nazareth and preached there and in Judaea, at the time Tiberius was emperor. I believe he was executed by the Romans by crucifixion. All these are LIKELY things, and there are passages in the Bible, like the sermon on the Mount and the marriage at Canae that ring true; the same thing goes for the obviously difficult relationship Jesus had with his mother (after all, she was a Jewish mother, and they have a reputation).

But fishes and loaves, Lazarus, and Jesus resurrected, the talk about messiahs and the kingdom of heaven -- all these are fanciful as metaphors, but not believable as literal truth.
I do believe in the healing of the demonized; there are many examples of people who have the ability to SOOTHE and CALM mentally ill people, and it is very likely that it was one of Jesus' remarkable traits. In there somewhere, in the gospels, there is a core that reflects the eyewitness reports on Jesus. But your Catholicism rests and flourishes on Paul's Epistles, and that whole lot is a fanciful construction of a clever, well educated, cosmopolitan man, who probably believed most of the things he writes about. After all, their world was filled with spirits and ghosts.

True2Life
Topic One: Why, of course, you would vote for ANTI-HOMOSEXUAL candidates. After all, there is no more important, indeed burning cause, than prohibiting a few thousand gay people to set up marriages. The whole existense of western civilization depends on it. I mean, who cares, about hunger in the world, wars in the middle East, the price of gas going through the roof, millions of Americans losing their homes, millions more who get sick and can't get any health care, because of the insurance companies -- hah! Nothing is possibly as important as stopping a couple of lesbians with kids trying to make sure that they are covered and protected AND RESPECTED as a family.

god man
you'd better not go believing anything like Caesar crossing the Rubicon. There were no eye witnesses, you know. The gospels were written by eyewitnesses. The authors set about to write works that depicted real people and real events. Why would they write about something that had no significance in their lives? So the historical content should be judged not against tales of unicorns or Easter Bunnies, but against other first century works of history and historical narrative.

man who is so confused
I'm sure you would LOVE it if Catholics didn't vote. Of course we would only vote for anti homosexual candidates if we could. But, it is still a free country and Catholics also have the right to vote.

True2Life
You are absolutely right. I couldn't agree with you more. The world out there is dirty, sinful. You true believers would only soil your souls if you get mixed in it.
After all, Jesus said, leave to Caesar the things that concern Caesar. I think you should all stay away from voting. Neither of these two people are suitable for what you are looking for.
Good for you.

dred
Listen my friend:
You cannot support anything, by quoting from your magic cult book.

"Why do I believe in JC? Because he made miracles!" ""How do you know that? Miracles don't just happen."
"Why, it says so right here in our magic cult book."
"JC went to heaven, after dying!" "Really? How do you know that?"
"They were eyewitnesses who left testimony."
"What eyewitnesses?"
"says right here! the Gospel according to St. Bimbo, chapter 6 verse 35. It says so in the cult book, so it must be true."

If a newspaper wrote that "Yesterday in a stadium in Los Angeles in front of thousands, Obama cured two lepers and a blind woman"
you would say "Wait a minute! That's bogus! Nobody can perform miracles, not even Obama"

But when it says so in your magic book, about things happenning 2000 years ago in a backward colony of the Roman Empire, involving some smelly soothsayer from Gallilee, you cream in your pants.
And you complain that we don't debate. What debate do you expect?
"But I don't think people can walk on water. Besides, he had holes in his feet; he would sink right in". "Oh, no! It says so right here, in the magic cult book. Wrong!!" End of debate.

of course,
Only holy, Roman Catholics understand that it is morally impossible to vote for Obama. It is a sin if we do. A mortal sin at that. It is so obvious what happens when we separate ourselves from God's grace--just this thread alone shows the devil's work. REAL Catholics get it right--McCain is not the one either. Especially if he chooses anti life Tom Ridge as his running mate.

another fly in a bottle


The so-called alpha dog.

No, mon ami-- the Mother of God is ever-virgin and mother; God revealed that to us. (Luke 1 :28)

Your mother was a bimbo; you revealed it here yourself. How she let you live is the mystery.

The Bible gives us a hint: "An enemy hath done this." (Matt 13 :28)

.

Dear Sempervigilans


Click your magic twanger over to Tony Blankley's column.

I can only guess
... that Buchanan had this one in the can and is on vacation. The "old Right's" chief Putin apologist, on 12 August 2008, puts out a column on Obama from a Catholic perspective?

Pat! Where's your column explalning how the invasion of South Ossetia was all Georgia's and America's fault? I'm feeling defrauded.

Police Speech Captain WES
It is official now. The term "PRO-ABORTION" in now outlawed. If you use it you will be tarred as “tired old religious nuts like Pat.”

Ja Wohl Mein Sprach Fuhrer!

(Or do you prefer Stalin?)

choice
begins when a woman decides to lay down for a man. What the libs/dems like Alpha O, Jim and all the rest seem to want to IGNORE is that most folks who are getting abortions are using them for birth control. Like the very sad story of the girl in England who had four abortions before the age of 19, the first being at age 12! This girl was NEVER raped, NEVER the victim of incest but made incredibly STUPID decisions, over and over again, resulting in the deaths of four innocent babies. And Way Down South had an excellent response which none of you pro-abortionists (and YES YOU ARE PRO ABORTION, not pro-choice) seem to want to address - 97% of abortions are strictly because a woman found herself in a situation she did not want to be in; NOT because of her health! IF BHO wins, I fully expect him to try and adopt Britain's practice of letting doctors decide if a baby is "worthy" of life. If the docs over there decide your baby is going to have a "lesser quality of life" they can recommend witholding care and letting that baby die. In fact there are docs over there who advocate not even naming an infant until the age of 6 months just in case "something" develops in the baby's health and the baby must be euthanized. After all this is EXACTLY what Margaret Sanger had in mind when she founded Planned Parenthood. Eugenics at its best. And Roy, you are incorrect; black babies are aborted at twice the rate of any other race in America (according to MLK's daughter, who is on a crusade to end abortion, and speaks out on it every chance she gets). Probably why all those elitist dems love BHO, cause most are, after all, closet racists.

Those Who Abort Are Less Than Animals
I have had two miscarriages and as a human being I still wonder about those two babies 30 years later.
Humans are not meant to kill their offspring and when we do , we destroy our own humanity.

Those who abort their babies are lower than unthinking animals.

And people wonder why a lot of Americans live their lives on animal instinct & irresponsibility?

Read my blogs
Neocons leave comments on my blog, just click my name.

Give it a rest!
Why is this even still an issue. According to the Supreme Court and the majority of women in this country, abortion is no more an issue. Get over it. The future of our economy should not be based on the abortion issue.

And Pat is over-exaggerating the procedure described in this article to incite fear or anger. Most women who get abortions do so before the second trimester, and if a partial birth abortion is done, it is probably due to medical complications, not some whimsical decision that Pat tries to paint.

Consider the alternative, happens daily

dreadnaught Location: CA
Reply # 156
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 11:27 PM EST
It takes nerve?
-----
Are you saying there is no alternative that is worse than abortion?

Like being thrown in the trash can, flushed down the toilet, starving to death, being eaten by bugs, and on and on, all those terrible things I don’t want to even think about.


After the breath of life, you also will
be alive.

WAY Down South Location: HI
Reply # 70
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 2:49 PM EST
Jim
Genesis 2: 7

“And the Lord God formed man of dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.”

This is an account of how God created man. It is not an account of how humans procreate. You obviously believe that they are one and the same. You are wrong.

After the breath of life, Adam and any baby becomes a living being.

Genesis 4: 1

“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain.”

And when his nostrils breathed the breath of life, he became a living being, not a moment before.

Obama became
an unequivocal MURDERER when he stopped the passage of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

He would not even allow a child rapist to be treated on death row the way he WILL ALLOW a poor helpless fetus to be treated by the healthcare industry.

And if he can allow a fetus to die on a gurney in a hospital hallway ...

JUST WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WILL ALLOW TO HAPPEN TO YOU UNDER THE OBAMA HEALTHCARE PLAN?

The trip from cradle to grave will be a lot shorter under OBAMACARE ...

IF YOU EVEN GET TO THE CRADLE!

Buck. Lay off the drugs.
What the heck was that all about?

News Flash: NO PERSON IS "PRO-ABORTION"! This lame attempt to frame the debate around women's right to choose is all used up. The only people who use that tired old phrase are tired old religious nuts like Pat.

It's about Government telling people what they can and can't do with their own bodies. Wake up, not everyone thinks that a blastula is a baby.

I'm betting that just as many aborted fetuses came from catholic women as any other religion. Tough reality, but you all know it's true.


Buck
If adultery is important to Catholics then how can they support McCain. The facts and his own veiled admissons point to the fact that he cheated on his first wife with Cindy.

Second, about 25 percent of large U.S. corporations _ those with at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts _ did not pay corporate taxes.

higene full of it
" . . . he and his wife resist any attempt to use the legislative process to limit women's choices."

REPLY: ---He's a fiend; she is too.

"Gruesome depictions of abortion procedures don't change the fact that a woman has the right to decide how her body will be used,"

NO-- her right is to carry a normal baby to term. If after it's born she wants to place it for adoption, nobody'll object. Abortion is only putting a baby to death in the womb. No one has a right to kill innocent children. EVER!

The "legislative process" had NOTHING to do with giving us legal abortion; Americans had no voice in the matter. It was FOISTED on us by evil liberal, godless judges and MUST END !

Abortion Is NOT "health care." That's simply a pretext for "choice" which is choosing to murder.

blind by his flattery
how could this OB the negro from hawaii even come this far spitting out death as his utimate goal. he has to take it on the helpless unborns. maybe his granny gave him this hate idea; take revenge on the Black unborn for having a Black father and white unborn for having a white mother. this slime belongs to gutter leads to hell. is a wonder the Almighty God hath not strike him dead with the rest of the Demonics.

Bustering McCain would kill you children
On the contrary, it is McCain's blustering response to the Georgia that shows how dangerous McCain would be in foreign affairs.

Foreign policy shouldn't be led by machismo posturing. McCain was acting like a loose cannon. A cannon with a temper that could lead to world nuclear annihilation.

This is not just my opinion. Get away from the pundits, and listen to the real foreign policy specialists. McCain's call against Russia would be disastrous.

Obama, gave a better measured response.

Poor Jim
So you feel that haven't gotten enough attention.

When I proved how ignorant you are about The Book of Genesis, you did not have the courage to admit that you were wrong.

I didn't whine about it because I have learned to expect silence from ignorant persons who could not possibly defend their incoherent ravings.

You have nothing to complain about. You have gotten far more than your fair share of attention on this thread.


late term abortion
I've read that not long ago it was the duty of an Apache father to kill his infant offspring if such offspring was deficient such as to impose a burden on the tribe. The mother was spared this duty. We (Anglos) called them all savages and considered it our duty to shoot them on sight. What ought we recommend today for the killers of normal viable infants, who commited the killing for a matter of social convenience?

FOUR SQUARE
You are having a nice day. You 've done your work, had dinner, you sit up with a cup of coffee, let's fire up the old laptop., News, news, McCain, old people, drill drill drill, right through your scull... Obama... the change which will change all changes, will bring hope to all who are hoping about change,... I hope...
Yechch. How about TH? Always good for a laugh.
Wait a minute; what is this?
"First they take the innocent blond, blue eyed little girl baby; they hang it upside down, and rip off one leg; not all the way; they leave some hanging. Then they take a straight razor, cut slowly through the belly; let all the intestines hang out; the little girl can't talk; it has no tongue. Slowly, slowly they pull the guts out....."
Who are these people? What kind of a sick game are they playing?
Why, they are all the god fearing nice Catholic people, who just love them pre-owned unborn zombie fetuses. They just love to sit there and lovingly describe all the things they imagine are happening to their imaginary little blobs of protoplasm. Real children? Nah, real, born children have snot you need to clean up, and diapers to change, and they get hungry. Hey, let somebody else take care of them. Don't we pay taxes for welfare?
Not real kids; it's much more fun to sit here in TH and make up stories how them liberals twist their intestines on a spit......

Obama: Cruelty to babies, not animals
Thank you Mr. Buchanan, for calling attention to the stark cruelty of Obama's view on the rights of babies in and out of the womb.

Now, let us juxtapose that with how Obama feels about animal rights:

"I think how we treat our animals reflects how we treat each other," he said. "And it's very important that we have a president who is mindful of the cruelty that is perpetrated on animals."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U74PLG0&show_arti cle=1

And what is Obama's deciding factor on life issues then...political expedience?

Atrocious.

Rest assured,
those who support, promote and participate in abortion, Hell has a particularly warm spot reserved for you. Go ahead and mock, but remember these words. You were warned.

For Bonnie,
Just Google "abortion". You'll see the "myth" for yourself.

It takes nerve?


Jim:

Nobody but you cares if you're only for abortion if the alternative is "worse."

That is called sophistry. Jim is only for smashing babies skulls when there are no alternatives. Jim is only for high-class prostitutes if the alternative doesn't suit him. (Low-class drifters.)

He looks for the better alternative. If it's abortion; SURE! What could be nicer? Go jump in the lake, Jim.

Anyone have a comment?


Did you notice, here it is, the sun almost going down, and not one person has commented on my hard and fast opinion of Abortion. Why is that?

I will be back in the morning to see if anyone, left or right, got the nerve to comment.

This isn’t just a new idea, that has been my opinion for 65 or 70 years, when I first heard of the word.

"I am absolutely against an abortion, unless the alternative is worse."

This is for you, Anne


At one place you said I was commenting on a subject not discussed in the original article.

I’ve got a little game for you to play.

Some day come on TH at noon your time, select any article, scroll down to where you see only the posts and not the original article.

Now let’s have you guess what the article was about. You won’t usually find the original subject in the comments posted by bright people like you and I.

Whoops, I’m not so sure about you.

Hey 77 years ago I moved to Penna, then moved away about 65 years ago.

Corp not paying taxes
WASHINGTON (AP) - Two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, according to a new report from Congress.

The study by the Government Accountability Office, expected to be released Tuesday, said about 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes over the same period.

Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.

"It's shameful that so many corporations make big profits and pay nothing to support our country," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who asked for the GAO study with Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.


Bonnie, oh Bonnie (comment #2)...
I can deduce from the design and construction of your posting (no capital letters, some punctuation errors, etc.) that you're a "New Age", hip, cool, new school, liberal woman. Your posting has traits of a text message. You don't want to take the time to be really serious and reflective, and present your opinion in an intelligent and mature manner.
And you're a nurse?! Oh how the profession is slipping into mediocracy, if you are any indication. (Both my mother and mother-in-law were career nurses). I hope you are not the typical example of nurses.
Your comment about having a Catholic president, JFK, makes no sense in your arguement that Obama's pro-abortion stance is condonable.
By the way, aren't health care professionals supposed to hold human life in the highest regard? Isn't human life sacroscanct? We Catholics (with a capital "C", since it's a proper noun) strongly hold that belief. If you're a nurse who is okay with medically terminating a human life (life DOES begin at the moment of conception) them you're probably alright, or could be convinced by a slick talking and persuasive guy like Obama, with mercy killing, doctor assisted suicide, and possibly even genocide.
I think that it's a pity that you're a nurse. A more appropriate career for you would be in a slaughter house.

I geuss
Adultery is not important to Catholics.

Obamanation
AlphaOmega is correct, at least at the surface. Everything he/she states is so blatant in this world. However, this is what happens when man in his evilness and selfishness is manifested in his total self.

Re abortion not being spoken by Jesus or no where in the Bible, AO appear to be correct when you read and see with the eyes and mind of the selfish man (not AO in particular). However, when you read and see with the eyes and mind of the spirit then you will clearly see 'Abortion' in the Holy Book. Hint; from Pharaoh, Herod, now America issuing orders to slaughter babies in the womb (CCD: your body is the Temple of God), hence, the Obamanation oops, abomination of the Temple, blood sacrifice in the Holy Temple).
(Sorry, could't resist that one).
As far a ghost, devils, pit of fire and sin, same applies, these will not be seen until there is 'original silence' in your life and you're guided by the spirit and not the self.

Catholics and their spiritual leaders can make all the difference in the world, but much refuse to, so we must pray, pray much for all, for man and for Jesus' coming.

ps; Yes I am Catholic (Calling All To Holy Obedient Life In Christ) and there is a GOD.

AlphaOmega
Both your arguments and your attitude are dishonest and unpleasant. You've done the impossible -- making Anne seem sympathetic.

Joseph
Thanks for the support and advice. I'm working on it in a polite and constructive way.

THREE IS THE WINNER
Oh, the Church does have a problem, and it is not Barack Obama.
Look at your numbers Catholics.
How about abortions? A mortal sin. Same as the general population; Catholics are just as likely to decide that a free, healthy un-pregnant woman trumps any day a pre-owned and unborn "whatever" .
How about divorces? A mortal sin. About 50%, same as everybody. A bit more with annulments; that's a get out of jail card for Catholics, like Juliani and his cousin-wife.
Jesus says nothing anywhere about abortions; the whole Bible says nothing about abortions. In Jesus' time, the unwanted kids were exposed on the mountainside. That was acceptable, and that is why Jesus says nothing about it. But he has a whole boatful to say about divorce. Yeah, well. The priests don't have to live night after night with some drunk who snores.

Look at birth control. How many Catholics do birth control? Would you like to guess 90%?

There is the Church, and there is the reality of life. And fewer and fewer people are scared by the old ghosts, and devils, and fire pits. Besides, it is not a bad scam. You sin; you go to confession; sin is washed off. Slate is clean, time for more sin. I would say that is the best scam all around. The Jews should take notice, moaning and groaning under a stiff-necked god who doesn't approve of ham sandwiches and shrimp cocktails. The Moslem should take notice "You mean they run around with uncovered faces? And miniskirts/ And bikinis? and that's OK BY EVERYBODY?"

Pro-Life Democrats
THIS IS YOUR YEAR!!

If you are REALLY pro-life and a Democrat this year you can do a great deal to throw off the domination that the abortion industry has over your party.

This year a vote for McCain will ensure (or as close as can be expected in politics and government) that at least one more justice who believes in judicial restraint will be appointed to the Supreme Court. Since Roe v. Wade was judicial activism of the first order, it is widely believed that a court such as that would do much to undo the overreach that Roe v. Wade represents.

There are many potential outcomes from this (ie. States in control over abortion laws, abortion being much more strictly limited, etc.) but one certain outcome is that the abortion industry will be severly wounded and there strangel hold on the Democratic Party would be practically ended.

Most Catholic Democrats are Democrats because they grew up in working class families and believe that the Democratic Party is more pro-worker than the Republican Party and so they vote against "big corporations" or "rich crooks". I know I grew up in such a household and had many friends who did as well.

But, this year, I will vote for McCain. He is pretty independant on most issues but I have to rid our party of the abortion strangle hold. I just cannot be for someone who is so indifferent to human life. (Barack Obama)

Another thing to think about is if Obama wins, Hillary will NEVER be President. The polls show overwhelmingly that Catholic women Democrats are FOR Hillary. If you vote for Obama you will ensure that Hillary will never be President.

Two by two
We talked enough about that bigot, Pat Buchanan.
He is Catholic. The "right" kind of Catholic. And he knows that the Church has a problem. No, Obama is not the problem. No, gay marriage is not the problem. Killing the pre-owned and never born is not the problem. You, Catholics are the problem. You have a terrible problem. You are Americans. On the one hand, you are born free, have rights, demand and decide your choice; life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
On nthe other side, you have the Church. The Church that demonstrated to the faithful, that your children do not count; it's more important to shield and protect the rapists of the Church.
The Church where you are supposed to go for instruction as to when and how and in what way to have sex, and be instructed by people who never grew up sexually, who never changed a diaper or nursed a baby with colic; who make it the glory of their existence not to have children, but want to be called Father. More than half the students in the seminars are gay, but the clueless Church, wants to purge its ranks of gays. Churches go wanting of a parish priest; every year fewer and fewer are naive or ignorant enough to want to become priests. The Church in the US is on its way to become what it is in Spain, France, Italy, 15% ATTENDANCE, ALL OLD WOMEN.

Characteristics of a Psychopath

A psychopath will use people for excitement, entertainment, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value

Psychopaths have these characteristics:
---------------------------------------
NO empathy for human life.

Knows the truth, so facts are unnecessary.

Superficial charm.

Self-centered & self-important.

Deceptive behavior & lying.

Conning & manipulative.

Blaming others for their actions.

Little remorse or guilt about anything.

Shallow emotional response.

Callous with a lack of empathy for others feelings or emotions..

Living off others or predatory attitude.

Blaming others for their actions.

A psychopath is usually a subtle manipulator. They do this by playing to the emotions of others. They typically have high verbal intelligence, but they lack what is commonly referred to as "emotional intelligence".

Obama the Butcher
This vile subhuman being is worse than Adolph Hitler. I predict he will be elected because many sudo-religous types fear their friends more than they fear God. In fact I bet Obama has no fear of God at all.


One by One
Let's take Buchanan and his article here.
First of all, we know who Buchanan is, what he has done, what he believes, and what kind of America he envisions. In his ideal America, only certain Americans have rights, and the rest exist at the suffering of the "right" Americans. In his America, people of color are second class citizens; Jews are second class citizens; gay people are far from gay, hidden away from society, afraid the police will come and raid the place where they want to meet a friend. Immigration, if it exists, is restricted to English, Scottish, Irish people.
In his America, women know their place, and it is at home. Women do not go to schools to become doctors or lawyers; they should be thankful to become school teachers, nurses, bookkeepers. And as soon as they get pregnant, out the door they go. And of course, if they get pregnant in the wrong way, well, they just deserve what they will get. The guys slink back to their wives, or mothers or wherever they came from, and the women, if they have money and connections, they get rid of the problem. The poor ones, the blacks, the young, they take a chance with some butcher, or stick a wire up their womb and hope not to bleed too much, before they make it to the hospital. And that is OK with Pat Buchanan. We don't need any documentation for that; dozens of books, hundreds of articles spell out in the past forty years who Pat Buchanan is, and what his values are. And now, he crawls in here as champion of the unborn and pre-owned, and opens his mouth against Obama who represents everything Pat has hated all his life. Why should anyone pay attention to what Pat says?
He is a triple-time loser.He is the past, and good riddance to him.

Obama OK with Genocide in Iraq

Many Americans have heard about the 'Rape Rooms' in Iraq.

The details are to ghastly to describe here at TH, this is as graphic as allowed.

Women and girls, reportedly as young as 9 years old, were strapped down and repeatedly raped and tortured any way the 'Islamic Animals' desired, by as many 'Brutal Men' as available.

Many of their families were forced to watch.

When the 'Islamic Animals' had enough of the female, many were fed feet first into a wood chipper while they were still alive.

The next female victim and their families would be brought in.

This was Genocide of Iraqi females.

Obama wants to 'pay' for all of his Marxist solutions by using the money now being spent in Iraq.

Obama for political reasons is OK with genocide in Iraq.

Redstate,
Unfortunately, for some stupid reason, they branded CA (and my own, MA) as blue states, when of course these 2 states, with NY and DC, are the reddest of red, considering red as a symbol of socialism etc.

But as a fellow Catholic, as i have written on other threads, do not be satisfied with whatever bs your priest puts forth regarding abortion versus other social justice issues.

What you need to do, and it is your duty, not just your right, is speak kindly/gently first to him. (if you don't speak kindly/gently, you will be branded a 'nut,' and then the bishop will automatically agree with him.

If you are not satisfied with your pastor's response, go to the next level. In some dioceses, this priest is called a dean or a vicar.

If you are not satisfied with his answer, go to the bishop. If you don't like the bishop's answer, write to the Apostolic Delegate in DC.

YOu might say, this is too much trouble, but its not too much more trouble than posting on TH. You might say, what good would this cumbersome process do?

Practically, maybe not much. There are so few priests, that i doubt your bishop would 'fire' your pastor. But it would warn them both to at least be less public with their deviance from catholic teaching.

This is the beauty of our church, compared with the more congregational churches. if you don't like their pastors' positions, its tough luck, no one to complain to, change churches. the universal church, under pope jpii and BenXvi, is totally with you; go for it!

Obama on Genocide

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

July 2007 "Presidential hopeful Barack Obama said the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there."

Dr Martin L. King had a 'Dream' that the day would come that a man ne judged NOT by the color of his skin but by the 'Content of His Character'.

Obama fails miserably by the 'Content of His Character'.


Serious Catholic
Mr Buchanan is correct, a person who truly believes his faith and is a serious Catholic cannot vote for Senator Obama. To do so imperils his/her soul. Catholic teaching says that the evil of abortion trumps social justice. That is not an order nor a political statement, it is the result of the teachings of Jesus Christ and is exactly that, teachings of how to live your life. You have free will and can do what you want. You cannot go against the teachings of Christ and expect to attain eternal salvation - your choice. People like Senators Kennedy,Leahy, Durbin Kerry, Speaker Pelosi etc. have made their choice.
There are many people that have a sincere concern for certain cases relating to pregancy but you have to ask yourself - Why is the dem party so intent on abortion under any and all cercumstances? What is their real objective wrt America? They are on a track that is dangerous for America and, yes, contrary to Catholic Church teachings for those who care. Are you sure you want to go down the road of the current dem party?

Mark Levin Radio Show
As I post this, Mr. David Freddoso is being interviewed by Mark Levin on his radio show.

If you miss the interview, you will be able to download it at Mr. Levin's website. All of his shows are available for download.

Obama doesn't care about human life

Obama is AGAINST giving any kind of aid to a baby that has survived abortion.

The Obama position could be summed up this way.

When any woman makes a contract to kill her baby, that woman deserves a DEAD BABY.

Great article Mr. Buchanan
I think a lot of Catholics and other Christians are not seeing Obama's policies clearly. They have bought into this mantra of change. Obama justifies the killing of unborn AND BORN change as "women's rights." Certainly women have rights, which must be respected. But outright murder is depicable, especially of babies that are already born. Obama doesn't care, because these babies do not have a vote.

Obama against giving aid to born alive

In Illinois, Obama could only speak and vote against Born Alive in 2001 and 2002. But by 2003 he acquired the power to kill it.

Obama was appointed chairman of the liberal Illinois Senate Health & Human Services Committee, where Born Alive was sent in 2003 for vetting.

Obama stopped the sponsor from adding the provision that would have made the federal and Illinois versions of Born Alive virtually identical. Obama went further and stopped the committee from voting on the bill altogether.

For 22 months afterward, Obama could have recalled that bill. But he left it shelved to die – much like the live aborted babies being shelved to die in Illinois hospitals – until the General Assembly session ended in January 2005.

Obama moved on to the U.S. Senate, and it was only then that the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act passed and was signed into law, in August 2005.

In reality, Obama's problem was with the definition itself, not any fig leaf provision. As the sole senator to speak against Born Alive on the Senate floor in 2001, Obama said:

[W]henever we define a previable fetus as a person … it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.
"If this is a child"?

Barack Obama's fanatical support of abortion stopped him from admitting abortion survivors were persons

conservative Catholic
It is also a shame that many liberal Catholic priests including my own pastor seem more interested in inventing some new "social justice" teaching than in pointing out the horrors of abortion.

The poster who claimed the Catholic Church teaches that the death penalty is wrong should read the Catholic Catechism before making the claim instead of listening to some priest with a political agenda. You might also consider reading articles by Cardinal Avery Dulles on the subject.

Barack Obama and BAIPA

"Let me tell you a story. In 2002, President Bush signed into law a bill titled the "Born Alive Infants Protection Act" (BAIPA). This law was necessary because, believe it or not, infants were being born alive during attempted abortions and then, ancient Spartan style, left to die. Jill Stanek wrote about this last year, saying:

"As a nurse at an Illinois hospital in 1999, I discovered babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms. I discovered infanticide."

The act was so vile that even staunch abortion advocates would not oppose BAIPA. Stanek tells us that it passed the Senate by unanimous vote, garnering the support of senators Kerry, Kennedy and Clinton. She then pointed out:

I testified in 2001 and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member.

Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women's rights or abortionists' rights.

Obama's clinical discourse, his lack of mercy, shocked me. I was naive back then. Obama voted against the measure, twice. It ultimately failed."

Jill Stanek

article
Mr. Buchanan makes excellent points in his article. It's a shame that posters to this thread can't stick with the topic.

Shells
Dear I think you just ruined dinner!

AlphaOmega
So tell me how do you know Jesus would turn his back on Anne? Did he tell you that? I think Jesus might have a few words to say about your arrogance, presumptions, and venom. Once again take the plank out of your own eye! You spew venom about Anne's venom! That just isn't logical and really falls under the pot calling the kettle black.

As to the weaker among us, I agree gay teenagers are part of the weak and do deserve protection. However, if they are considered weak then defenseless babies have to be considered the weakest of all.

AlphaOmega: BLAH BLAH BLAH
There are major differences between gays who get beat-up and MURDERED fetuses you DOLT!

Gays can defend themselves and they have bleeding-heart boobs like you to defend them as well.

They also have RIGHTS goven to them by the Constitution!

AN UNBORN FETUS HAS NO RIGHTS >>> THEY ARE SUBJECT TO GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED MURDER!

A PRECTICE WHICH YOUR lord and master OBAMA heartily ENDORSES

becasue he lusts for

POWER EVEN IF HE HAS TO CRAWL OVER THE CORPSES OF DEAD BABIES TO GET IT!

AND you are not the beginning and the end of anything - JESUS WAS THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA!

NOT YOU!

YOU FRAUD!


Leslie, Let's Stick With The Subject
Take away race, religion, history, and who's running for office. Drain that from your mind...

Ok, now, do you find sticking a pair of scissors into the skull of a newborn baby and sucking out its brains with a turkey baster who was perfectly alive and kicking just moments ago, unsettling?

Do you find sticking a freshly born child right out of the womb, right into a broom closet, leaving it to starve, squeal and die, unsettling?

Race, religion and your blather has nothing to do with this subject. You try to deflect and deny the obvious by peppering us with your tripe.

If you can shrug off the image and the realities of these procedures, then you certainly are a liberal at all costs.

AlphaOmega
"Oh, I forgot. You not only lose your freedom, not only do you get to die, but on top you are sent to a really yucky place, which is ruled by that most fantastic of god's creations, the Fallen Angel. Nice.

Tell me maldain: when do you get to be free?"

Alpha,
Why don't you ask the thousands of Holy Martyrs who freely went to thier death as Slaves to Christ. It is much better to be a slave to Christ than a slave to Sin.

[not]alphaomega, jagr,
not alpha, you bring up the criminal priests to discredit the pro-life movement. Not logical,and not worthy of even a low-life like you. The truth is independent of its messenger. That is, some day, you might type in 2+2=4 on TH, and you would be right, despite your otherwise erroneous opinions.

jagr, you state that partial birth abortions are so statistically small, that they skew the rest of the abortion debate. Let me agree with you, for the sake of the argument. Then since the vast majority agrees on this sub-issue, why can't we outlaw that, and fight over the rest of abortions another day?

For maldain
So..... you are born already guilty, your punishment is death.... BUT , if you buy into the dogma, and you give up your identity, self, being, whatever makes you free, to the Church, or Jesus, then you do not die. (or you die but your soul, which you gave up in captivity, now exists in captivity for all eternity). Oh, I forgot. You not only lose your freedom, not only do you get to die, but on top you are sent to a really yucky place, which is ruled by that most fantastic of god's creations, the Fallen Angel. Nice.

Tell me maldain: when do you get to be free?

Maybe this time Catholics
Will Vote for Life, and the teaching of the Church.
Babies have right to life. We cannot stand in the face of God the Creator, and refuse his Gift.
Obama, in his own words mentioned having a baby, as a disease that his daughters should not be punished with.

Baby Killer by Association
I think Barack Hussein Obama, by his absurd actions and rhetorics, is a baby killer by association. This man or any man who professed abortion should never bebcome a US President. I am a buddhist and I am against killing, human beings or otherwise. We should equate baby killer to humanity killer. And that the real face of Barack Hussein Obama.

OBAMA: ABORTION JUNKIE
Obama is notorius for NEVER taking a stand on anything while in office. He has a long, long record of voting "present" on nearly every bill that came up for a vote while he was in the IL Senate.

BUT WHEN IT CAME TIME TO CAST A VOTE THAT NARAL AND PLANNED PARENTHOOD WOULD LOVE HE WAS "OBAMA ON THE SPOT"!

HE KNEW WHERE HIS MONEY AND HIS VOTES WERE COMING FROM - DAMN THE BABIES!

OBAMA IS AN ABORTION JUNKIE >>>> ANY CATHOLIC OR CHRISTIAN WHO VOTES FOR HIM HAS BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!

jagrmeister721
“Partial birth abortion is so infrequent, it does a disservice to the debate of choice and abortion by focusing exclusively on it.”

Less than 3% of all babies are aborted in the U.S. because of either the life of the mother or rape. 97% of the abortions are performed because the woman chooses (for various reasons) that she does not want to bring the child to birth. I assure you that these numbers are very reliable.

So, perhaps you can explain to me why pro-abortion people always immediately ask a pro-life person, “What about rape or the life of the mother?”

Ignoring 97% of all abortions and focusing on the 3% is what does a disservice to the debate.

jim
"me: well I guess I heard opposite stories in the men’s room. It was always men trying to figure how they could get that pretty key-puncher in his bed."

So let me get this straight....you judged all men and women once again based on innuendo and the fantasies of men in the bathroom? Your kidding me right? And if these men were married, any of them, does that mean all men are adulterers too? So I should then judge all women by the plots of entrapment I have overheard in the ladies room and then form a world view from that? Once again, your kidding me right?

Jim I think it is long past time you take the advice of Reagan..."When in a hole first thing you do is to stop digging."

Fine column, Pat, but
the problem is, even if every devout Catholic, evangelical Protestant, and Orthodox Jew were to vote against Obamabortion, that still would only get McCain to about 40%. He still needs to find a way to some of the 'personally opposed but...' folks.

Topic is Does Barack Love Children?


Does Barack love babies? He said once he wouldn't want his girls to be PUNISHED with a baby.

That would indicate he approves of aborting --who?

His own grandchild.

I might understand him not caring for other folks' little unborn baby. But his own grandson? Or daughter? He voted to give his grandson a partial-birth abortion; should it seem expedient. Right now anything that will bring him VOTES is expedient.

He can forget about the White House. By treating the grandchildren of America with such disdain, he's courting defeat. America will not vote en masse for this creep. I won't believe it until I see it.


jim: You don't get it!!!

First of all, I haven't a clue as to WHO YOU THINK you are to tell me... or anyone, for that matter to "WATCH IT!"

Second, this is NOT the place for your thoughts on human sexuality, and quite frankly, no one cares. And it's neither pertinent nor appropriate! In fact, it makes YOU sound like a smarmy old man.

Third, as Lolo1 has said, blaming creepy old men who supposedly force themselves on so called innocent women, or the old starving babies routine is an empty argument.

If you have a pertinent and appropriate argument, then fine. Otherwise.....




AlphaOmega
You are an agent provocateur who has nothing but contempt for the Catholic Church.

You goal is not to engage in reasoned debate.

Your goal is only to shock and offend.

You have nothing positive to offer here.


jagrmeister721
It is not insignificant to the one being aborted.
Were you trying to be inordinately crude or was that effortless on you part.

Why me of all people

Lolo1 Location: CA
Reply # 94
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 4:52 PM EST

You: You left out all of the women using sex to trick many a male into marriage.

me: well I guess I heard opposite stories in the men’s room. It was always men trying to figure how they could get that pretty key-puncher in his bed.

============

Here’s a Snippet.

Why me of all people, but at least three times in the past 45 years a recently divorced beautiful lady asked for my advice when the man they were dating wanted to hop in bed with them. They were all very nice ladies indeed. My six instructions, in this order were. — Don’t break up a happy marriage — Don’t get a disease. — Don’t get pregnant — Enjoy — Enjoy — Enjoy. And two of them later said my advice was perfect. Didn’t see the other one again.

Bet you didn’t know I was that samrt, did you?


re: AlphaOmega
Ok, not that you're likely to understand but you asked. An infant before birth or after is considered innocent because it is unable to commit a sin. Yes it does have the original sin and it's punishment, namely to be born, age then die. Death was the punishment for the Original sin. A shorter life was the punishment for Cain slaying Able. Those sins are paid for by the whole human race including the innocent because by being human they assume those sins.

thanks, Alecto


You mean the Catholic Church "has a problem" with abortion?

I thought it was God.

You have a problem with the truth. You have come to the right place for the truth. I think you ought to be still, don't post anything ridiculous and read the truth. I sure don't care to read your tripe. It isn't even worth answering.

jim: Amazing YOU didn't see Lolo did!!!

Reply #91 in fact.

"Who are you to judge what is the worse alternative?"


What I find amazing is that YOU'RE the ONLY ONE who is amazed that the rest of us found it so disturbing that you told everyone to "SHUT UP!"

Or is that because YOU'RE the only one who doesn't see YOU'RE behavior as rude, pompous, self-important, and ill mannered, and no one is impressed!!!



Watch it anne


Anne Location: PA
Reply # 87
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 4:24 PM EST
jim: Well then, I suggest YOU WATCH IT!

Did you notice that no one has commented on my most important statement about abortion, but everyone complains that I ask those who are not pregnant to ==== up.

And I repeat, "I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse."

Are you really against that stand?

I suggest that you not put nasty comments on TH about people who are not commenting, and those who just may have been much better than you could ever hope to be.


jagrmeister721: MAY U Go TO ...
a very hot place when you die!

YOU ARE A MORAL LEPER - JUST LIKE OBAMA!

MAY YOU ROT IN HADES FOR A MILLION CENTURIES!

YOU CREEEEEEP!

Cheapshot
Partial birth abortion is so infrequent, it does a disservice to the debate of choice and abortion by focusing exclusively on it.

Amazing

Isn’t that interesting. Of all the many things I have written here today, do you happen to notice that the thing that has caused the most problems is that I said “Shut up.”

No one has noticed, or commented on what I think is my most important comment.

“I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse.”

alphaomega: Oh pa-lease! What a stupid
straw question....

No one is buying into your trip!



For everyman
Learn how to spell: It's a-r-u-g-a-l-a. Got it?

Now that you got it, tell me, which one of the idiots who rant on rightwing radio did you copy this from? And are you aware that people get kicked out of websites for lesser crimes than this? Your crime? To be completely and utterly boring. Take that and eat it with your pork rinds.

Please enlighten me oh Catholics
I hear a lot about unborn or pre-born (second hand?) babies as being "innocent" babies who are murdered. Aren't they supposed to carry the original sin, which will not make them innocent? And, especially, since nobody has the time to run around aptizing fetuses, well?
What's the score?

Forn JPK and Priests who rape
Oh, excuse me. I was totally wrong. It was HOMOSEXUAL rape that the priests did.
Well, that's different. It was justified then.
Just some fa&&ots doing their thing with each other, right?
And let us not forget how that happens. It starts with Freud, then it spreads to the 40s and 50s gay subculture, then, THEY recruit more gays, etc etc. Not a problem. And of course, the bishops were only doing what they could to protect mother church, right.
Terll me, where do they find people like you? What insane asylum closed and they let you out?
Did you bother to follow the many trials? we do not have gay kids getting further instruction from the priests. IT wAS RAPE, which is rape whether it involves men or women, 3 year olds, 10 year olds or 60 year olds. What npart of rape are you ignorant of? It wasn't homosexual priests but PRIESTS, in general. If it was homosexual priests, they could very well get their jollies by doing it with OTHER homosexual priests, of which there are plenty; they learn how to do that in the seminaries. Or they could go out in the bars (without a collar) and have one night stands. But that is not what they did. And, of course, you are silent about those leaders of the church that to this day hold serious positions, after doing everything in their power to hide the rapists. And I AM talking of Cardinal Egan in New York.

bonnie
If abortion is right wing lies please tell me how it ever came up in both the legislature of Illinois let alone Congress.

What a complete dolt you are and if you truly are a nurse you should be booted immediately, not for being pro-choice, just for being stupid.

I certainly would never let you attend any child of mine let alone be my nurse!!!

The Catholic Vote
Catholics have a problem bigger than abortion. How can any Catholic support the church's constant interference with our sovreignty? They continue to violate our laws regarding immigration and frankly the Catholic church has become so weak and spineless it no longer attempts to deny child sexual abuse cases opting instead to settle all cases. Note today's news about Chicago's $12M settlement.

I don't believe the Catholic church has the sway it once did - and thank God for that. Catholic church hierarchy need to spend a few years in silent contemplation of its grevious sins against liberty, free speech and respect for public institutions and the law. Historically, the Catholic church showed no respect for any laws. Why should we respect it?

Interesting...
Obama's arguments on this considering he contradicts himself with his health care policies. Also interesting is the difference in state laws.

In California, when my son was stillborn, and my premature daughter died, I was required by state law to name them and give them a funeral. I would have regardless of the law but the law does require it. I was given both a birth certificate and a death certificate for both children.

Wonder if that applies to babies born alive and having died due to botched abortions? Wonder what the state laws in Illinois are in regards to this and are they the same or similar to California?

dear al/meg:


I don't even want to talk to scum like you. Your opinions are so worthless I won't give you the dignity of debate. YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED as a judge of any MORAL matter.

We know from long experience you only post to attack morality; which means you'll never respect any religious tenet or church.

This means not only that you never know what you're talking about, it's clearly LIES you try to contribute. Liars don't deserve to enter a serious discussion. Go to hell, Liar.

jim
"Me: Well, I have not been in the working environment for 30 years or so, but from the stories and complaints I heard in my 30 years in an office environment, and conversations I overheard when my Sweetie was listening to a friend, I could remember 2% female, and 110% male, starting the action."

Stereotype, innuendo, and eavesdropping hardly constitutes fact. You left out all of the women using sex to trick many a male into marriage. Were they raped? No, but they did do a good job of using their own sexual desires as well as that of men, to get what they wanted. There are lots of women who are equally as aggressive as men when it comes to sex. They are just better at it and a heck of a lot more cunning.

jim: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???

No one cares one wit about what you're posting because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC OF THE COLUMN......

Now, pay attention....The TOPIC IS.. "The Catholic Case Against Barack" and not about murdering innocent unborn babies, it's about...

Obama, who "helped block a bill that was designed solely to protect the life of infants (NOW PAY ATTENTION HERE.... ) already born, and outside the womb, who had miraculously survived the attempt to kill them during an abortion."

Go ahead, read it again, I'll wait... !

"to protect the life of infants (NOW PAY ATTENTION HERE.... ) already born, and outside the womb, who had miraculously survived the attempt to kill them during an abortion."

And that he voted THREE different times, "to let doctors and nurses allow these tiny human beings die of neglect and be tossed out with the medical waste."

GET IT??? IT's about LIVING BABIES who survived a murder attempt, and Marxist Obama voted against allowing these ALIVE BABIES care... and then he LIED ABOUT IT!





dear Jim:


You're using specious arguments-- all the time!

First posing a hypothetical example, where we CHEER, after babies are starved to death! Keep your stupid opinions of others. Abortion in America, where we don't starve; ought to be a CRIME! It once WAS!

Now you feel you can condone it wholesale when a famine produces hunger -- a LOCO suggestion!

Abortion is not a zero-sum proposition. It's the extermination of little children before they've had a chance to LIVE! How it doesn't appall people like YOU is ungodly. You're just HYPOCRITES!

jim
"I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse."

Who are you to judge what is the worse alternative?

So long as there is life there is hope.

a word with JPK
You said:

"The Church isn't the only institution with sexual sins. Many Protestants have the same problem with adulterous parsons. And don't get me started about the Public Schools."

Some points about Catholics. ONE, there's our confessions. It's not a factor in most of those other cases of pederasty and abuse; even rape.

Confession means a youthful Catholic tells his sins to the listening GAY PRIEST.

If the boy is a latent or closeted homosexual, he'll confess some impropriety with other young males.

WELL-- Imagine what goes through the mind of the gay clergyman? Will he absolve the young man of his sins? Likely he'll be sympathetic; even to the extreme of saying "They weren't sins."

Then, with opportunity within his grasp; he becomes a predator. The younger man KNOWS how it started, but most Americans, especially non-catholics, have no clue.

Thirty years later, that boy hires a lawyer . . .

Later; when this same evil man is accused by parents, or any offended parishioner, what happens?

HE has to confess to his superior or a bishop. IF he seems sincerely repentant; "Mea culpa!"

His confessor, don't forget, is entrusted with FORGIVENESS of sins he hears confessed. That's part of his vocation! He determines a sinner will go "and sin no more."

But he'll NOW have to send him away. To a retreat or another place where he would conceivably do penance & start anew.

He leaves, it's covered up. And now the BISHOP is an enabler! He even acted under the seal of the confessional!


Oh me Oh my

Lolo1 Location: CA
Reply # 79
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 3:45 PM EST
Subject: jim
me: "According to you, that idiot who talked her into it was just along to satisfy the ladies desire.

You: What century do you live in? I hate to tell you pal but women have sexual desires also,

Me: Well, I have not been in the working environment for 30 years or so, but from the stories and complaints I heard in my 30 years in an office environment, and conversations I overheard when my Sweetie was listening to a friend, I could remember 2% female, and 110% male, starting the action.

You: … … would have no problems she could just claim rape.

me: Rape is a different story.

me: I am talking like an expert, but one who has absolutely no experience, beyond my Beautiful Lady for 55 years.



Watch TV, and see


dreadnaught Location: CA
Reply # 78
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 3:14 PM EST
Jim, Calif, #9

You say: But if that baby in fact dies of starvation, we know his mother was NOT complicit in the starvation OR ABORTION.

And I say: WOW, you haven’t been watching much TV lately, have you?

I wish all mothers who hate, or molest their child, or who knew they could not feed the child, had sought an abortion.

So that would put the Cable TV stations out of business, but so be it.


jim: Well then, I suggest YOU WATCH IT!

In fact, I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU WATCH what you post, and what you tell others to do!

You've got a lot of nerve coming to any site and telling people to SHUT UP!

In case no one has told you this before, you're view on things... anything, is NOT THE END ALL AND BE ALL.

And like it or not, there are those of us who are just as bright... or probably brighter, who have different opinions, and have every right to express them without YOU telling us to SHUT UP!




Read it, comment on it


Why doesn't anyone ever notice or comment on what I think is the most important statement in any of my comments on abortion.

"I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse."

Are you really against that stand?



Watch it Anne


Anne Location: PA
Reply # 73
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 3:01 PM EST
Subject: jim: .

Any women with half a brain and a modicum of self respect would have walked...

===========

Her headstone says, “Now the Angels have a Role Model.” and everyone who ever knew her, says that is the perfect statement.


dreadnaught:Your post to jim is spot on!

jim's kind of mind set (note I do not say 'reasoning') makes no sense.

(And one always has to be somewhat suspicious of anyone's dogmatic, dictatorial edicts.)

It seems that too many people who say they are "pro-choice" don't realize that by saying that, they are in fact, pro-murder of those who are the most innocent and vulnerable.

They don't seem to realize that it makes no difference if these innocent babies are born yet or not.. they are till HUMAN LIFE!

And you're right too, they don't... or can't.. or won't... see that there is a difference between responsible for and something that happens outside of one's control.


It's unfortunate that
Obama's mama didn't feel as strongly about abortion as he does.

dreadnaught
Your posts of 2:45 and 2:47 pm are well said!!

I have to agree with you completely and I am not a Catholic.


Zealous to a fault
"Obama says he opposed the Born Alive Infants Protection Act because he feared it might imperil Roe v. Wade."

Obviously, preserving a right of abortion is a higher priority for Obama than preserving a life. If this weren't true, why would he be opposed to protecting the lives of infants who survive an abortion. Evidently, the right of a woman to avoid being punished by having a baby she intended to abort extends beyond birth itself.

Maybe Obama hasn't thought this through, but it is a revealing insight into the psychology of the man. It is an indication of a moral blind spot that ought to give pause to all Americans who are inclined to vote for him.

JPK
My point was it wasn't so much that Catholics voted against OBummer in large numbers, it was a lot of mill hunkies and their descendents who just don't like being talked down to. At least Hillary (in the funniest moment of the primaries) tried to toss down a boilermaker; our harvard boy was talking to the Iowa people about the price of aragula.
Anyway, the pattern is there: Pittsburgh and Philly, being SO progressive and with it, will vote Democratic as they always have. The rest of the state, as per tradition, will try to make up for it.

jim
"According to you, that idiot who talked her into it was just along to satisfy the ladies desire.

What world do you live in? 99% of the time it is the idea of the male, and he didn't care what happened, cause he would just walk away and let the lady suffer."

What century do you live in?

I hate to tell you pal but women have sexual desires also, and in this day and age women also solicit sex. Case in point, look at how many female teachers are getting continually caught having sex with their students. Now who do you think solicited that and then capitulated? The 13 year old or the adult female? My money is on the adult female because I doubt the 13 year old would have the nerve.

If everyone thought like you then Rielle Hunter would have no problems she could just claim rape. If the sex ideas originate with the men only having to talk women into then to that I say "There's a sucker born every minute!" which some fault can still be put on women for just being stupid.

Jim, Calif, #9


You are seemingly complicit by your passive indifference to this crime of abortion. You will have to answer to God.

You also pose these specious arguments:

"Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies in Nigeria and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

NOT cheer-- who said it cheers us when a mother gives birth and her baby must die ___FOR ANY REASON__,

? ? ? ? ? ?

But if that baby in fact dies of starvation, we know his mother was NOT complicit in the starvation OR ABORTION.

For that much we must be thankful. According to YOU, every country that suffered famine & starvation ought to abort every unborn child. This is even a MORE disgusting attitude, coming from someone who will never have to starve. You are an apologist then for the extinction of an entire race. Or an entire population!

My advice to you follows:

Until you get some common sense, Jim, stay out of these discussions; because your mentality is absolutely SICK. Nobody cares what you may think; it just sucks.


Obsession?
Obama has diligently followed up to ensure he takes all steps available to him to prevent any infringement on pro-choice, including letting liveborn rot to death when neccessary.

Is this a personal vendetta? No - couldn't be. Just seems like one. Michelle has her teeth sunk into this one too.

If Obama is POTUS and digs his heels in, or Michelle whips him, what are we in for?

Everyman
I think Pennsylvania was singled out for two reasons. It has a very diverse Catholic population. There is a mixture of both traditionalists and more modern Catholics in PA. Also, PA may be the Florida or Ohio of the next election.

Robin,Black or White, I Make No Excuses
Robin, Black nor white, I make no excuses for Chicago politicians. Black Chicagoans have learned from Irish Catholic politicians. City hall has consistently chosen the most manipulated, self-absorbed, ineffective black, corrupt politicians as "their representatives" for black Chicago. Harold Washington is the only black politician that black Chicagoans chose to represent their aspirations. If you are old enough, you will remember what happened when he won control of the city, and the ensuing "council wars" that became infamous around the world. I take Buchanan in his totality; both his overt message to his general audience, and his covert message to the his Catholic audience is race based. So, I address his racial motives, and our collective racial history whenever I respond to his opinions.

Catholics and Molestation
I think there should be a bit of clairification here. The vast majority of boys who were molested, were between 12-17 years old. It wasn't pedophillia, but homosexual assault. I know, I know many gay were as appalled as hetros. But you cannot ignore the facts. Also, about 75% of the assualts occured between 1955-1985. It goes without saying that there was a gay sub-culture (small but present) in the 40s and 50s. They in turned recruited more gays, which led to what some called the Lavender Mafia.

Traditionally, the Church guarded against any kind of sexual perversion, and used the 5-10 year period before ordination to a)make sure the potential priest was picking the correct vocation of celebate priesthood and b)weed out those men who had character flaws. Sometime during the 1920s-1940s the Church let its guard down. Most probably, Freud and his thought invaded the seminaries.

The Church isn't the only insitution with sexual sins. Many Protestants have the same problem with adulterous parsons. And don't get me started about the Public Schools.

jim: So obvious,a truly pompus simpleton

Have to admit, however, you are one lucky little man to have married someone who would put up with an arrogant, self important, egotistical, know-it-all, such as yourself.

Bet she never had a thought of her own.

Any women with half a brain and a modicum of self respect would have walked...




dear anita


Please qualify what you're saying about ANY Catholic; --IMHO, or, SOME of them, perhaps. Because I don't think you speak for our bishops and clergy.

I will grant you, there are many liberal Catholic POLITICIANS who pander to abortionist lobbies and militant feminists. Otherwise, I'd venture this guess about all liberal Catholics-->

SOME don't care about abortion. But only a small minority. Shame on that some.

Everyman! I'm pulling
for you folks to do the same thing this time. There is a certain EX LTC USAF (Ret.) from Scranton who is predicting an Obama victory. Geez it would be great if PA led the way in Obama's defeat. Hang tough.

Jim
Genesis 2: 7

“And the Lord God formed man of dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.”

This is an account of how God created man. It is not an account of how humans procreate. You obviously believe that they are one and the same. You are wrong.

Genesis 4: 1

“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain.”

It’s interesting that the word conceived is used in Genesis. I did a search for the term “third trimester” but couldn’t find any mention.

I'm not sure
why PA catholics were singled out for this comparison. Maybe just because of the timing of the PA primary? Anyway, I encourage you to look at a county-by-county map of the PA voting patterns in the last half-dozen electionns: the pattern is the same. PHilly and Pittsburgh vote blue and damn near the entire rest of the state is red. OBummer may win PA if he can register enough like-thinking pals in the cities. Out here in the hinterlands, though, he doesn't have a chance.
By the way, this holds true in the last prezaduncial race also---Kerry won a bunch of places with ocean views, and lost everything in between. I suspect the same will happen in November, when the question will be "Is America ready to NOT elect a black Prezdunce.?"
Mr Buchanan's opus is well-written and well-thought out; unfortunately the subject is abortion, which I suspect will become the slavery issue of the 21st century in America.

white Knight, Oh, yeah


To conclude with this bigot:

While we're at it; and not to soften the apology, there have also been hundreds of cases of molestation outside our Church; by ministers of protestant sects, by schoolteachers, coaches and other educators, and YES-- Republican politicians. need we mention the other party's deviants?

As for the Catholic Church: Jesus who founded her prophesied plainly,

"SCANDALS must needs be; scandals will come. (Not just sex, all kinds of them) and woe to him by whom scandal comes. Better for him if a millstone were bound to his neck and he were cast into the sea,"

And it came to pass. But the CHURCH remains HOLY. Nothing on earth is able to bring the Catholic Church to an end; not ANY sin or scandal. JESUS is with her. She is His BRIDE.

to the "white knight"
It's hardly new when anti-catholics leap at the chance to accuse us of permitting an evil clergyman to molest children. You people are swine; it does no good to deny such a calumny.

For the sake of all honorable & holy priests, let me contradict this "white" knight, likely a knight of the Ku Klux Klan; here, while the iron is HOT:

NO evil done to anybody and especially to children is ever condoned or enabled by any faithful Catholic. We denounce and disown such priests, who have committed sacrileges in the house of God.

Obviously, it was necessary because of the scandal to denounce as well the weak bishops who covered up some cases of abuse. This was only purported to be pedophilia; never actually demonstrated. It was still abuse; and a grave sin. But most of it was homosexual sin; committed in a sacristy, by evil men. The victims were almost all young men and boys in prepubescence; GAYS. Be it as it may; we deplore these dirty acts on the part of catholic clergy. It won't happen again.


to white knight
Catholics get in trouble when they equate moral issues like adultery and feeding the poor with murder. No one likes to call abortion murder but it is. Most liberal catholics prattle on about social justice(soup kitchens) and justify 'murder' of truly innocent babies. They line up to keep mass killers alive on death row, they harp about the poor and salve their conscience with platitudes as they live their selfish lives and elevate their pets to human status. BUT NOT A BABY....OH, NO.

questions for Bonnie in KY:
Subject: I am voting for obama
here is one catholic who will be voting for this candidate pat buchanan. i've worked maternal child health in my many years as a nurse and have not ever seen that procedure done in any hospital i've been affiliatted with. that is just a myth and an outright lie the right wing is spreading around. so phooey. remember we once had a catholic president. you cannot gain converts these days because the church has done a 360 degree turn around on "wink-wink" the two "a's" abortion and adultery. as long as abortion is legal in this country you need to stop scaring the less sophisticated. what makes you an authority on obama anyhow? you need to go to confession for bearing false witness against your "neighbor".

---------------------------------------

If infanticide is a lie, why did Congress feel the need to debate and pass Born Alive? Is the Congressional and Legislative Record that shows Obama striving for institutionalized infanticide a lie? Is Barbara Boxer part of the conservative conspiracy you name that is viciously protecting the lives of babies from the gallant and glorious abortionists?

I have noticed about Obama supporters: to them, the past is as mysterious as the future.

Leslie
Your I, II and III posts above were specifically race baiting and had nothing to do with the article that is the subject of this thread. I stated in my post that I do not always agree with Buchanan and, in fact, disagree with many of his positions. However, on the issue of Obama's position on abortion, which is the basis of this thread, he is spot on. I stand by my assertion that you were race baiting in your posts. That seems to be the smokescreen deployed by many Obama supporters when they do not have an answer to questions regarding his positions.

As an aside, Leslie, I found it interesting that you chose to opine about Chicago politics and the corrupt Irish/Catholic politicians who like to steal from the public coffers. Since you are apparently from Chicago and have first-hand knowledge, I will not disagree with your opinion. However, I would like to point out that David Axelrod is a "henchman" of sorts for Mayor Daley (I believe one of those corrupt Irish/Catholic Chicago politicians) and has worked for Daley for many, many years. I find it interesting and telling that Obama is also a product of this "corrupt" Chicago political machine and has Axelrod as his main confidant. Interesting to hear my suspicions confirmed from someone who has first-hand knowledge. Thanks.

Go To Catholic Blogs
And you will see a fierce a battle between Hetrodox Catholics and Orthodox Catholics. Buschanan only highlights the intense battle that has been ongoing for a few decades. For those Catholics who take thier faith seriously, there is no debate. The Magesterium declared that Abortion is "intrinsically evil" -that is there is no reason at all when an abortion can be justified, even to save the life of the mother.

However, the health of a mother is not the debating point. Pro Abortion Catholics declare that the Right to Choose in a Human Right that supercedes anything the Church can rule on. The Church rules differently. One can go back to the 1st Century Didache and see the prohibition against abortion.

For Catholics who get an abortion, or assist someone in getting an abortion, they are automatically ex-comunicated Latinae Sentinae (that is, there is no need for a ruling from the Magesterium; they've ex-communicated themselves). Of course, a formal confession and repentance can absolve them.

Obama's stand on abortion makes it almost impossible for a Catholic to vote for him. The Church does define explicit reasons why a Catholic might be forced to vote for a Pro-Abortion Candidate (when both candidates are pro-abortion, a catholic can vote for the lesser of 2 evils), but the dispensation is very very narrow. There is no "Seamless Garment" that the late Cdl Bernadin spoke of.

Cut and Paste


I don’t want to spend all day trying to think up new answers to these comments, so here are some cut and paste, from the past.

==============

The question is always asked, “Does abortion end an innocent human life?” Absolutely not. The Bible says in Genesis 2, verse 6 or 7. Life begins with the breath of life, not before.

================

I say I am against all abortions unless the alternative is worse.

It has often been said, that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be available everywhere.
================
Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies in Nigeria and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

If a child can be expected to starve and suffer for the very few months of its life, let’s stop the birth, until someone can find a way to force (if necessary) MEN and women to make proper choices in their sexual activities.

I wish I had written down the name, but I actually did hear an anti-abortion fanatic on TV last year, say that he actually believed that a starving baby was better off than an aborted fetus, really. Don’t have an idea who or when or where.

===========

As I told the doctor when my daughter was born, “I know child bearing has its expected problems, but until my Beautiful Wife is as safe as she can be during childbirth, there is no baby.” The Dr. said, “That’s what I like to hear.”

Just what I expect


pamsparkle Location: IL
Reply # 61
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 2:23 PM EST
Subject: Jim
Unless the female was raped, she is responsible for the pregnancy.
----------
According to you, that idiot who talked her into it was just along to satisfy the ladies desire.

What world do you live in? 99% of the time it is the idea of the male, and he didn't care what happened, cause he would just walk away and let the lady suffer.

How terrible. Put the blame where it belongs, on people with ideas like yours.

Jim
Unless the female was raped, she is responsible for the pregnancy. The only sure way to avoid becoming pregnant is to not engage in any activity that would result in a female becoming pregnant.

The female is not the one impacted by an abortion--the child bears the brunt of it. Yes, it is a human child.

Here's to the cake and not eating it too
To be fair John McCain did commit adultery plus got a divorce. That might not go over too well with the Catholics.... If John Edwards waits about 25 years like McCain did, he could run again for President.

Then again the Catholics turned their head against the priests who molest their children.. so you never know how the cards will fall on this one.

Robin, Pat Buchanan Is The Race Baiter
Read what Pat Buchanan has been writing.
Then try and understand that history plays a prominent role in contemporary behavior.

Pat Buchanan's outrageous piece entitled:
Under President Obama Whites Need Not Apply
http://vdare.com/buchanan/080731_obama.htm
which was posted on http://www.VDARE.com on July 31, 2008

Hey jim: "I bet many of the Posters on

this site would vote for YOU to "SHUT UP!"


And, for your information, a lot of things matter to a lot of us, but in case you haven't noticed, this column IS ABOUT Obama, who "helped block a bill that was designed solely to protect the life of infants already born, and outside the womb, who had miraculously survived the attempt to kill them during an abortion."

Go ahead, I'll wait... read that again!

Three, count them... 1, 2, 3 different times, "Obama voted to let doctors and nurses allow these tiny human beings die of neglect and be tossed out with the medical waste."



Now, take your little edict... "The only time a man (or I should say a male) should mention the word abortion is when the lady he impregnated wants one. The only time a female should mention the word abortion is when she wants one." and STUFF IT!!!


Leslie...
Your pathetic attempt at race baiting won't work. This article is about Obama's position on abortion. I am of German/English descent with not a drop of Irish, yet I am ardently opposed to Barack Obama. Why? Because I am also a Christian who happens to believe the Word of God. Pure and simple. I cannot vote for a candidate who supports abortion. Pat Buchanan is spot on in this article, and I don't always agree with Pat.

Ex-Wyomingite
Has it occurred to you that her ignorance may be in part due to having read the assigned texts?

As a history teacher, I can assure you that the assigned/approved history texts being used by public school teachers today are abominations. Those used in most U.S. Universities are even worse.

Ex-Wyomingite, Here Something For You...
I have a pretty good grip on the history of the Irish. I have a huge collection of Harper's Weekly woodcut engravings that tell the story of the Irish in America. Here's a book that also tells the story of the Irish. It's entitled,
How The Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev

Leslie
Your command of American History is fantastic. Thank you for that comparison.

I think the Cons have a few too many John Wayne westerns in their heads and think that they have mastered the subject. Back to school with Cons, and this time, READ THE ASSIGNED TEXTS... like Zinn perhaps.

Please Cons, back away from the Fox News channel and learn some facts. It is a pity to see so many duped citizens listen to nothing but opinion channels.

CVN65 - Get A Grip!
CVN65 At the turn of the last century the police chief of NYC was quoted as saying 80% of the crimes in the city were committed by Jews.
In the mid 1800's the majority of the crime in New York was committed by the Irish. What ever group that is kept down by the conspiratorial efforts of the "status quo", commits crime. When the Italians came, did they not commit big time crime until they acquired enough resources to "go legit?" The Irish were,and ,many still are, a wild crew(you all just keep them out of sight in trailer parks). It was the Catholic church that civilized the Irish. The Vatican decided to educate, domesticate and encourage the Irish to take over politically and work in conjunction with Arch Diocesees across the nation to establish a Catholic political stronghold in America. Irish drunks lay in the streets throughout my childhood. Chicago Irish Catholic politicians got rid of (Skid Row)Madison street flop houses, in an overall effort to reform the Irish. Jane Adams' Hull House was established to domestically support adbandoned Irish women and their children. People use to routinely refer to the Irish drunk as "a member of the wife-beaters club."
You tell black people to stop commiting crime, when the biggest criminals in Chicago are the Irish/Catholic politicians. Their progress was to go from committing street crime to committing really big time crime - raiding the public cauffers.

Same problem, same solution


I bet many of the Posters on this site would vote for Hitler or Stalin if they said they were against Abortion. Nothing else matters to so many of you.

The only time a man (or I should say a male) should mention the word abortion is when the lady he impregnated wants one. The only time a female should mention the word abortion is when she wants one.

All the rest of you, SHUT UP.

And let’s punish the one at fault. The perpetrator of the pregnancy should be castrated.

Before that operation, a short ceremony will determine that heads he gets an anesthetic, tails he doesn’t.

That should solve the problem rapidity.

Buchanan is right
Infanticide is a disgusting and heartless act whose support by Obama exposes his empty character. Obama, running on "judgment," fails in his complete support for killing infants born alive in attempted abortions: no one who calls himself a member of the human race, much less a Christian as Obama has ordained himself, can condone the murder of infants. Obama uses any means to any ends to gain power and that includes helpless babies.
Only cowards torment and kill those who have no chance to fight back. Obama's cowardly support of exactly that makes him unfit to even be considered for election as president. All men are created equal, endowed by their creator with inalienable rights - those rights extent to the most helpless,especially those tiny human beings who by their survival of the most brutal of practices demand and must receive their inalienable right to life. The president of the United States takes an oath of office to protect, defend, and uphold the Constitution. Obama's willingness to murder infants nullifies him as one who can take that vow. Obama's self-interested choices all fail, but his total acceptance of infanticide rejects him as anyone American voters can even consider. People seem to have forgotten the absolute horror that men have inflicted on one another - Obama's support of infanticide marks him as such a person. Obama's stance on the destruction of helpless human life alone menas he must be rejected by Americans voters who, unlike Obama who will not protect those who are defenseless, believe in and defend the rights of the innocent. Obama, the yellow-bellied champion of infanticide, has no clue what that means and no heart to understand what it entails. There is no there there when a man turns his back and his soul on innocents. Solipsism and narcissism - the attributes of cowards - make Obama.

The Reason that Obama is Pro Abortion.
Black women rarely get abortions, nor do Hispanics. The majority or abortions are performed on White women. Abortion, unfettered, insures that the White race will Disappear, in the U.S., like it is disappearing in Europe.[Eur-rabia now] The Moslem Agenda, likewise the Black and Hispanic Agenda, is to replace the Caucasian Race, and take over!! Anyone who doesn't believe this fact, needs to look no further than "La Raza" The "Nation Of Islam", Louis Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, C.A.I.R. and the "Muslim Brotherhood. Moslems did not come here to Be Free, or look for a Better Life, they come here to over-whelm us by sheer force of numbers. Wake Up!! We are PAYING [P/C Catering] to Minorities to Breed us out of Existence. Read the book, "Fear Of The Black Planet" You can find it advertised in most Hip-Hop, or Black-Oriented youth publications. This is not a new phenomenon, these people/organizations have been working to this end for well over 50 years.

Freedom of Choice Act -- Good???
You know, the enactment of the federal Freedom of Choice Act might be a good thing. It would force a state vs. federal showdown. Consider: after passage of the law, a pro-life state arrests an abortionist for violating a state ban on partial birth abortion. Would Barack send federal agents into the state to forcibly break the abortionist out of prison? The state would get a chance to assert it's higher authority than the feds, which is what the Founders and Constitution intended.

Leslie
I thought that Barrack O'Bama was Irish! Seriously, though, give it a rest. The "Black Community" needs to stop committing so many crimes and quit blaming the police for their inability to obey the law. White guilt is about all tapped out, so go sniff for pity elsewhere. The Irish got treated like absolute crap in this country so they went about creating their own power structure; they took theirs by hard work over many years. Nobody is going to give it away, you have to work for it.

Obama's Abortion Agenda
Pat is right again on his attack on Obama, the extremely pro-abortion presidential candidate. Barrack Obama and his ilk should thank their good mothers for not aborting them. Now these ungrateful monsters are actively and selfishly promoting these satanic-inspired abortions just to win elections. In other words, they are only interested in temporary worldly power, popularity, prestige and money which they will all leave behind when they die. They don't think about the eternal damnation of their souls. Satan will, of course, gladly welcome them for eternity in his fiery kingdom of hell. - Roland "Skull-ant-tea".

Barbaric Barack
I cannot support any candidate that believes that any Christian in the United States would condone this a horrible fate for any baby.

We need to mobilize Christians to rethink about this issue. It is not, as several commenters have stated, an Irish Catholic vs African American view. I am not either and yet I must follow my conscious, love of life, and my Christian beliefs.

Death Penalty vs Christianity
Some threads say that the Church (Catholic) is against abortion and the death penalty. There is nothing in scripture that amends the command God gave in the Old Testament that murderers should be put to death. That command is still remains in effect today as it was over 3,000 years ago.
When people speak about a new covenet with the ascention of Christ and the beginning of the church they seem to disregard the old testament altogether. But God changes not, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

American- Irish/Catholic Racist History
PART II:Buchanan's approach to Obama reflects a long ugly political history between black people and the Irish. Pat Buchanan, Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, McLaughlin, and a crew of others represent what I call the Irish Catholic Media Mafia. With few exceptions, they are routinely patently condescending, paternalistic, and downright insulting to African Americans on the airwaves. This stems from the political history between the two groups. Historically, many Irish came here as "INDENTURED SERVANTS" - which was two inches away from being slaves. They were
"THE OVERSEERS" on plantations- in charge of the slave quarters, which resulted in high amounts of forced and consentual sexual contact between Irish men and African enslaved women. By the early 20th Century, many Irish men either kept separate black families and gave them land; or married black women.
(In Chicago there are approximately the same amount of black people with Irish surnames as there are what are now considered to be Irish whites)[The Irish WERE NOT CONSIDERED WHITE until the founding fathers decided to make slavery an all black enterprise.]
They were the "PADDY ROLLERS" who went out to return runaway slaves to the plantations -
dead, mutilated, or barely alive. They became, because of their political dominance in major US cities (particularly New York, Boston and Chicago),the heads of the police departments, that have acted as the front line of defense to "protect" whites from the black community. Their methods have been well chronicled. They have a long history of police brutality against black citizens.

Abortion! Looks like
the devout Catholic Democrats who practice their faith in accordance with the tenants of their church are in a real dilemma. If they vote for Obama and he wins and carries out his vendetta against the unborn, it's going to be very difficult for them to live with their consciences.

Great article Pat!!

Barack Obama vs Christianity
If Barack Obama is a true Christian then I am the king of the United States.
It's too difficult to see that Obama is as much a deceiver as the that great deceiver described in the book of Revelation.
Both Barack and Michelle are in reality, chameleons in thinking. And unfortunately too many Christians (who are not) disregard biblical principals and follow after others who use Christian as a guise in gaining followers. Those Christians (who are not) would be the same ones to crucify Christ all over again.
I will not be surprised for Obama to gain the election. Furthermore, I will not be surprised when Obama, as president, leads the liberal efforts to create a one world government. He is afterall a citizen of the world.
Both Barack and Michelle learned so much from their spiritual leader, Jeremiah Wright, who was true to serving his god. However that god is not the God of Abraham or Moses, but the god of this world.
As a chameleon, people should have been intelligent and wise enough to see it. And I would be much surprised should Barack be sworn in as previous presidents have throughout our 200+ year history.

Lon
What part of partial birth do you not comprehend? If you think it is legal to stab scissors in a babie's head please do not insult our intelligence by parsing where the head was when the child was killed. This is not rocket science. There is no humane stance on this issue that legalizes it. As you point to the lack of evidence of extraction there is more than enough to show no harm whatsoever to the mother physically for doing this barbarous procedure. There is also plenty of evidence where the mother is mentally distraught after experiencing this.

So run that just politics angle dog on the leftist's threads. It won't hunt here.

American - Irish/Catholic Racist History
PART I: I was young when John Kennedy ran for president. However, I like the rest of the world, was made keenly aware of the Irish pride at his candidacy. I live in Chicago; one of the biggest Irish Catholic political power centers in America -the Richard Daley Irish/Catholic Stronghold. No Irish Catholic Kennedy supporter even tried to hide the fact that they were elated at the possibility of a Catholic/an Irish Catholic becoming the president
of the USA. Kennedy got 80% of the Catholic vote
when he won the election. Daley "delivered" Cook County to Kennedy.

Barack Obama's candidacy for African Americans is a mirror reflection of the pride Catholics had at Kennedy's run for the office. Yet, Catholics like Buchanan can't let stand African American's cultural pride that is being expressed,in the same manner the nation and the news media allowed Catholic pride to be expressed, without insidious comments about "balkanization" of our politics. He refuses to view African Americans through the prism of a culture that has contributed much to this nation's success. He only sees color.

Agree with Pat on this column
Unfortunately, I cannot say how strong the faith of many American Catholics is. If it is anything like that of their Canadian counterparts (unfortunately, demonstrated in 1987 in Parliament--over 45% of Canada's population and over 40% of its MP's at any time are nominally Catholic--when they voted to REMOVE ALL LAWS on abortion and make it "open season"), then all bets are off.

Buchanan Essay of Courage & Faith
Buchanan:

I have had some vehement disagreements with you in the past and have employed some pretty strong language against you -- But your column today is THE BEST essay I have read on the subject of abortion and Barack Obama, and I could not agree more with you.

Kudos to your courage, faith and honesty.

In the name of accuracy
This article is probably harmless since it is targeted only at people who already plan to vote against Obama. But that does not mean its basic dishonesty should not be pointed out.

The Federal Born Again Infants Act was a bit of political posturing that had no legal effect. It outlawed something that was already illegal, and included phrases to make sure it could not be used as a basis for expanding limitations on abortion. Boxer's call for unanimity was largely a point of saying that the Republicans were not going to be able to use this as a dishonest part of a campaign against Democratic senators.

In Illinois, a radical abortion opponent claimed to have seen babies left to die, something that was illegal. The state (then Republican run) investigated and found no evidence to support her claims) and so did not prosecute the crime for which they had no evidence. This produced the dishonest idea that this law was needed to prevent such things, when in reality what was needed was evidence that it was actually occurring.

If Obama voted against such a poison pill bill, good for him. (The Illinois bill lacked the assurances that it could not be used as a deceptive way to limit abortions). If he killed such a bill in committee to avoid wasting the legislature's time on political games, even better.

"Thou shalt not Murder."
God’s Commandment is “Thou shalt not murder.”

It is not, “Thou shalt not kill.”

God would never have commanded his people not to “kill” only to then order and assist them to do so on numerous occasions. Yes, many translations use the word, “kill.” This is an incorrect translation. The distinction between the two words existed long before the Old Testament was written.

Those who believe that a moral equivalency exists between capital punishment and abortion understand neither the legal nor the moral difference between the words “murder” and “kill.” Neither do they understand the difference between innocence and guilt.

Wonderful!
Pat,
This is the best article I have ever read on Obama's position on abortion. I only hope that McCain is man enough to debate Obama face to face on this most important issue. For those of you who profess to be Christian and still are planning on voting for Obama, it is not too late for you to change your mind. Please reconsider and pray earnestly for the strength to do what is right. As you vote think about Obama allowing millions of helpless and innocent babies being tortured to death as they are being born. Also think about Obama if he becomes president putting into the federal and supreme courts those people who will allow this practice to continue for many years after his term in office. Remember that a vote for Obama is a vote for abortion, gay rights, socialism, higher taxes, continued dependency on foreign oil, appeasing terrorism and for doing anything that George Soros wants him to do.

No greater horror
There has been no greater evil inflicted on the people of the United States than Roe v. Wade. Not any of the wars (From the Revolution to the Iraq war), not gun violence, not AIDS, not gay "marriage", not Jim Crow, not slavery. Nothing.

There have been over 40 million abortions performed in this country since 1972. That's a greater average of deaths per year than either Jews killed in the holocaust, OR people killed by Communism in toto.

In 2005 there were:
48,000 people killed in any sort of transportation accident (Car, plane, train, boat, whatever).
69,000 people killed in other types of accidents including 789 killed accidentally by firearms.
40,000 people killed intentionally either by themselves or by others, including 29,000 killed intentionally by firearms.
12,000 people killed by AIDS
8,000 people killed by mouth and throat cancer (Chewing tobacco is a common cause)
160,000 people killed by lower respiratory (lung) cancer (Cigarettes are attributable to most, but not all of those)
130,000 people killed by chronic lower respiratory illnesses like Emphysema and Athsma (including those caused by smoking, which is not broken out in the data I saw.)

That's 467,000 people killed by various major causes.

For reference there were 2.4 million deaths outside the womb in 2005 from any cause.

There were also an estimated 1.2 million abortions. That's almost 3 times as many as were killed by guns, AIDS, cars, and cigarettes.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf (Start on page 31).

http://alanguttmacherinstitute.net/pubs/journals/4000608.pd f

Bonnie & Buchanan
Bonnie is about as much a Catholic as the "Republicans" who call CSPAN every morning to attack W and say they're now going to vote for obmadinejad!
I used to love Pat when he spoke abut "riding to the sound of the guns", sadly, the only sound he rides to today, like scarborough, is the sound of liberal channel TV money. Having sad that, he hit a home run with this article.

Clearly for RATS, the terms life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness apply only to those who will vote democrat, like baby killers and convicted felons, not innocent infants who will never get the chance to vote. Hope barak and the baby killers spend some time in Limbo on their way to hell!


Bonnie
During the Clinton administration, Bubba vetoed a bill banning partial-birth abortion, based on advice by a doctor (whose name escapes me) who was telling people on talk shows that there was no such thing as partial-birth abortion in the medical profession. Technically, he was correct, because the procedure was not referred to in this fashion in any medical texts.

In your ostrich-head-in-the-sand denial on the existence of babies surviving an abortion attempt, you sound just like him.

Oh, after the bill was vetoed, this doctor ultimately went on to brag that he had "lied through his teeth".

You keep good company, Bonnie. Hope you are proud of yourself. But the concept of leaving a newborn baby to just fade away and die makes me sick to my stomach.

And if it is a non-existant problem, why did it come up in the Illinois legislature THREE TIMES?

Bonnie
what a lame excuse for a human being your candidate is. Even Martin Luther Kings' niece is on a quest to stop Planned Parenthood equating their mission with that of genocide.
What kind of value were you given at birth. Did your mom ever contemplate pushing a sissorsinto your brain to keep you from being. Was god not present at your birth...what's your beef against angels? newborns are the purest of souls. The way many people I spoken to see it, he is not worthy of entering any temple to worship...not even Reverend Wright's. (and I don't like the individual)

Pat's Best Point
"If, as its advocates contend, abortion has to remain legal to protect the life and health, mental and physical, of the mother, how is a mother's life or health in the least threatened by a baby no longer inside her -- but lying on a table or in a pan fighting for life and breath? "

It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever to let the child die. Partial birth abortion is horrible, but letting the child who was born and lives, left to die is utterly barbaric. That is murder. Plain and simple.


Any quetions???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo&feature=user


Bonnie
As a maternity ward worker, you are absolutely and grossly misinformed as most Obama supporters are.

You actually believe late term abortions are a hoax? You think Pat, a man I seldom agree with, is actually making up the votes Obama put forth on this?

If you are cognitive enough to come to this website and post, then you should be able to google anything regarding partial birth abortions and read actual transcripts of nurses who actually took part in the act, pleading how barbaric and sinister this procedure is.

You don't have to believe in God to see this procedure is simply murder.

Tell you what, hold one of those infants on your ward and point a pair of scissors at its skull and come back to us and tell me how that felt.

But regardless of you finding out the re