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Tuesday, May 20, 2008
Pat Buchanan :: Townhall.com Columnist
Bush Plays the Hitler Card
by Pat Buchanan
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"A little learning is a dangerous thing," wrote Alexander Pope.

Daily, our 43rd president testifies to Pope's point.

Addressing the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's birth, Bush said those who say we should negotiate with Iran or Hamas are like the fools who said we should negotiate with Adolf Hitler.

"As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared, 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement. ..."

Again, Bush has made a hash of history.

Appeasement is the name given to what Neville Chamberlain did at Munich in September 1938. Rather than fight Germany in another great war -- to keep 3.5 million Germans under a Czech rule they despised -- he agreed to their peaceful transfer to German rule. With these Germans went the lands their ancestors had lived upon for centuries, German Bohemia, or the Sudetenland.

Chamberlain's negotiated deal with Hitler averted a European war -- at the expense of the Czech nation. That was appeasement.

German tanks, however, did not roll into Poland until a year later, Sept. 1, 1939. Why did the tanks roll? Because Poland refused to negotiate over Danzig, a Baltic port of 350,000 that was 95 percent German and had been taken from Germany at the Paris peace conference of 1919, in violation of Wilson's 14 Points and his principle of self-determination.

Hitler had not wanted war with Poland. He had wanted an alliance with Poland in his anti-Comintern pact against Joseph Stalin.

But the Poles refused to negotiate. Why? Because they were a proud, defiant, heroic people and because Neville Chamberlain had insanely given an unsolicited war guarantee to Poland. If Hitler invaded, Chamberlain told the Poles, Britain would declare war on Germany.

From March to August 1939, Hitler tried to negotiate Danzig. But the Poles, confident in their British war guarantee, refused. So, Hitler cut his deal with Stalin, and the two invaded and divided Poland.

The cost of the war that came of a refusal to negotiate Danzig was millions of Polish dead, the Katyn massacre, Treblinka, Sobibor, Auschwitz, the annihilation of the Home Army in the Warsaw uprising of 1944, and 50 years of Nazi and Stalinist occupation, barbarism and terror.

In that same speech to the Knesset, Bush dismissed the idea we could ever successfully negotiate with Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran:

"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them that they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before."

But did not Ronald Reagan's negotiations with the Evil Empire, as he rebuilt America's military might, bear fruit in a reversal of Moscow's imperial policy and an end to the Cold War?

Richard Nixon went to China and toasted the greatest mass murderer of them all, Mao Zedong, when Maoists were conducting a nationwide purge: the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. Yet, Nixon ended a quarter century of implacable U.S.-Chinese hostility. Was Nixon's trip to China useless?

Three years after Nikita Khrushchev drowned the Hungarian revolution in blood, Ike had him up to Camp David. John Kennedy ended the most dangerous confrontation of the Cold War, the Cuban missile crisis, by negotiating with that same Butcher of Budapest.

Were Ike, JFK and Nixon all deluded fools? For the dictators they negotiated with -- Khrushchev and Mao -- were far greater mass murderers and enemies of America than is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Bush's father negotiated with Syria's Hafez al-Assad, the Butcher of Hama, and made him an American ally in the Gulf War.

Was President Bush's father a deluded fool?

The president's own diplomats negotiated an end to the nuclear program of Col. Gadhafi, who was responsible for the air massacre of American school kids over Lockerbie.

Bush's own diplomats are negotiating with Kim Jong-il's North Korea, a state sponsor of terror. Ambassador Ryan Crocker is negotiating with Iranians in Baghdad. Egypt is negotiating on behalf of Israel with Hamas to retrieve a captured Israeli soldier. Are they all deluded fools?

Bush refused to talk to Yasser Arafat because he was a terrorist. But four Israeli prime ministers negotiated with Arafat. Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin shared a Nobel Prize with him. "Bibi" Netanyahu ceded Hebron to him. Ehud Olmert offered him 95 percent of the West Bank.

Were all four Israeli leaders deluded fools?

True, the Chamberlain-Hitler summit at Munich proved a disaster, as did the FDR-Churchill-Stalin summits at Tehran and Yalta, and the JFK-Khrushchev summit in Vienna. But JFK's diplomacy in the missile crisis may have averted a nuclear war. And Eisenhower, Nixon, Gerald Ford and Reagan all met with foreign dictators with blood on their hands, without loss to America, and sometimes with impressive gains.

What has Bush's refusal to talk to Hamas, Hezbollah, Damascus and Tehran done to make either Israel or America more secure?

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About The Author
Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative magazine, and the author of many books including State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America .
 
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©Creators Syndicate
All the appeasements mentioned - Of mice
Sir,
You are an utter fool.
It is all about the jews, it is always been about the jews.
They stand by a decree of G-d ALONE.
Their leaders only responded to secularist ideologies, that came from the world leader - USA.
The WEST or the EAST never liked the jews, but the WEST can't swallow them because or their recalcitrant theology, while the EAST, specifically the MIDDLE EAST wants them DEAD.
Land for peace ?? give me a break, your people would not do it ever and your people are not G-d's chosen people at best.
So, all your rewritten history piece here is hogwash. For hogs.
G-d will stand with Israel ultimately, and their appointment with their destiny and their MESHIACH will happen, no one in the WEST will avoid Gog-and-Magog Or Armageddon as you prefer to name it.
Even the USA will abandon Israel, whether or not the Illuminati and the powers that influence from behind closed doors had anything to do with Israel's rebirth (so they think= they might as well tell the truth and say - We did not want the two great wars, but .... LOL they happened !)
It is a shame, that you teach an anti-semitic theology.!!!
In my land, they have an anecdote of an Indian Chief that was going to burn at the stakes, he was tied and ready to become a human pyre, a man of the cloth asked him" do you want to confess and pronounce Jesus as your Lord?" he did not reply but rather asked the priest" If those burning me repent, will they go and meet this Lord you are telling me about?, the priest said" yes my son, of course", the chief thought for a moment and replied: "If that is the case, keep your Lord, and my punishers, I DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE !:
SIR, I DO NOT WANT TO GO WHERE YOU THINK YOU WILL GO AFTER YOUR LIFE IS OVER.

Hitler's and Stalin's invasion of Poland
Pat Buchanan tries to justify appeasement by attacking Poland for not giving Danzig to the Germans. Hitler had shown what concessions led to - the concession of the Sudenland to Germany led not only to the annexation of the Sudenland to Germany but the conquest of the whole of Czechslovakia. Hitler and Stalin had made a pact with each other, and they cooperated in dividing Poland. Since Buchanan's attack on George Bush's policies consist of supporting Hitler, his attack is worse than worthless.

Hitler's and Stalin's invasion of Poland
Pat Buchanan tries to justify appeasement by attacking Poland for not giving Danzig to the Germans. Hitler had shown what concessions led to - the concession of the Sudenland to Germany led not only to the annexation of the Sudenland to Germany but the conquest of the whole of Czechslovakia. Hitler and Stalin had made a pact with each other, and they cooperated in dividing Poland. Since Buchanan's attack on George Bush's policies consist of supporting Hitler, his attack is worse than worthless.

....
check your mail

svpallava
A fitting end for Arafat the sodomite in my opinion also.


How did you come to know the Lord?

Hamas et al
Incredible that OUR leaders so casually accept THEIR (Lousy Israel) enemies as our own!! Hamas is anti-Israel, for the obv reason that Israel stole their land,terrorized their people and put them in concentration camps. WE can talk to whoever we WANT. We need a much more balanced role in the ME,instead of being Israels attack dog. Thats disgarceful!! I am so sick to death of America being the stooge of that rotten,corrupt and murderous "nation". 60 years. 60 years of murdering Americans (the Liberty et al) and burning New Testaments. Oh,God bless Israel...

religiouslib
"don't the israelis know that is appeasment and nothing can be accomplished by talking to other countries.

"you must invade and occupy before they will do what you want."

By the Buchanan Principle -- the one he judges Hitler and Poland by -- doing so would put Israel in the right. Syria and Lebanon SHOULD do what Israel wants, without being attacked or invaded. But if Israel has to attack or invade because they won't roll over, it's their fault.

Also sprach Patrick.

israel in peace talks with syria
oh oh

appeasers to the left of bush/mccain
appeaders to the right of bush/mccain

it was reported to day on townhall that israel and syria are having peace talks in turkey.

don't the israelis know that is appeasment and nothing can be accomplished by talking to other countries.

you must invade and occupy before they will do what you want.

-
-

Gary Rosen
"Please answer me a straightforward question -- do you sincerely believe that Pat Buchanan literally hates all Jews and want to see them dead? Yes or no?"

Yes"

Then you, sir, are the libelous, obsessive crank, not PB. And, as Shells observes, you are thus not someone who can be reasoned with. adieu.

OK Shells...
... I've figured out why you "always win arguments." A: You talk only to yourself, B: Ignore or dance around questions from your opponents. C: Declare them "unreasonable" and thus uncommunicable, and finally, D: Unilaterally pronounce yourself the winner.

Still, doesn't it bother you to be guilty of the same smashmouth, obsessive, self-righteous, unreasoning behavior you accuse your opponents of? To find yourself in common cause with lizard brains like SSGT2, Anne, and Retired Geek? If Elaine had behaved that way, Seinfeld would never have let her be one of the guys.

PS... so please answer the question... does Pat Buchanan want you and every other Jew dead, yes or no? You've been more than happy to extrapolate his beliefs in your posts above, so why shy away now?

Forgot this
One may call me an ultra-nationalist on this, but I actually cheered when it was found Arafat died of AIDS--poetic justice for him to have been been substitutionary executed for his preceder (as leader of "Palestinians") Haj-amin Husseini, who had ordered the murder of Canadian WW2-hero George "Buzz" Beurling.

That turned out to be the only good deed (albeit, done post-mortem through chain-contact) of Gaetan Dugas, the "Patient 0" Air Canada flight steward.

More evidence of Pat's error
Pat asks "Four Israeli PM's negotiated with Arafat; ...; were they all deluded fools?"

The answer is a resounding "yes"--as Arafat was one of the most evil human-formed monsters in history!

-
-

Anna...Google...: Moses Hess if you can
If Olmert is brought up on charges of corruption
by an Israeli grand jury he has said he will resign...if thats the case then I believe Benjamin Netanyahu will be Prime Minster and will authorize a pre-emptive strike on Tehran.

I really believe that Bush foreign policy handed Iran's shites Iraq on a silver platter when they overthrew saddam and disbanded the Baath Party...they should have kept the Baath Sunnis in power to some degree because they are not as extreme as the Shites...The Shites are Persian by the way and not Arabic anyhow....

Israel already has a Nuclear bomb...and I might add that I am not opposed to Jews...but I am opposed to the Zionists who were the founders of the Secular State of Israel as well as Socialism and Communisim...

Do a search for Moses Hess if you get a chance.

I am not aware if you know it or not but the New York Symphony just did a good will tour to North Korea with conductor Loreen Mazzell...it was unbelieveable to think that something like this is possible but thats what happens with dialogue even with some totalitarian regimes.

WWJD?
The God of the bible wasn't a pacifist.

I guess the question is, did Jesus mean that on a personal level or a national level?

I'm inclined to think personal level.

IMHO

Iran
"And Israeli intelligence has predicted that Iran will acquire its first nuclear device in 2009, much earlier than previous U.S. estimates."

I believe that's true.


I know Bush is a moron, but if the GOP think they have any chance of winning, it will be over if they bomb Iran. Political suicide.

I am expecting Israel to do it themselves at some point.



Pat & Megan
Blaming WWII on Poland is like blaming Megan's Law on Megan. Come to think of it, that pretty much encapsulates Pat's outlook on life

Answering the question
"Please answer me a straightforward question -- do you sincerely believe that Pat Buchanan literally hates all Jews and want to see them dead? Yes or no?"

Yes. Next time ask a *hard* question, for crying out loud.

WILL BUSH STRIKE IRAN?
Numerous signs point to a U.S. strike on Iran in the near future:


**A leading member of America’s Jewish community told Newsmax in April that a military strike on Iran was likely and that Vice President Cheney’s March trip through the Middle East came in preparation for the U.S. attack.


**The Air Force recently declared the B-2 bomber fleet — a critical weapons system in any U.S. attack on Iran — as airworthy again. The Air Force had halted B-2 flights after a February crash in Guam. As Newsmax reported, the Air Force has refitted its stealth bombers to carry 30,000-pound “bunker buster” bombs, needed to destroy Iran’s hardened nuclear facilities.


**A second U.S. aircraft carrier, the USS Abraham Lincoln, joined the carrier USS Harry S. Truman in the Persian Gulf in May, carrying far more weaponry and ammunition than on previous deployments.


**Israel is gearing up for war. In April, it conducted its largest homeland military exercises ever. The Jewish-American source said Israel is “preparing for heavy casualties,” expecting to be the target of Iranian retribution following the U.S. attack.


**Saudi Arabia is taking steps to prepare for possible radioactive contamination from U.S. destruction of Iran’s nuclear facilities. The Saudi government reportedly approved nuclear fallout preparations a day after Cheney met with the kingdom’s highest-ranking officials.


**The USS Ross, an Aegis-class destroyer, has taken up station off the coast of Lebanon. Military observers speculate it is there to help defend Israel from missile attacks.

**Adm. Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at a recent Pentagon briefing that the Iranians are systematically importing and training Shiite militia fighters, who slip back across the Iraqi border to kill American troops.

And Israeli intelligence has predicted that Iran will acquire its first nuclear device in 2009, much earlier than previous U.S. estimates.




talking point
Do you have any information or facts? Israel is a good country but they can't talk their way out of the illegal West Bank occupation. Maybe your not up on things but thousands of Israelis are against the occupation too, are they anti-Semitic? No, the old tired whining about anyone who criticizes some of Israel's policies as then being anti-semitic is childish.

Sad
Dear Pat B,

You used to be a man I respected.

I was astonished at your attempt to rationalize that Poland was at fault for the Hitler Blitzkrieg.

I now believe that you are demented. It is unfortunate that you have lost it.

Bush was right and should be commended for finally telling the truth.

taft
you have proven yourself to be nothing more than an anti-semite plant from move on. Yopuir pathetic attempts to make pointsa by cutting and posting your talking points proves nothing than your total lack of intellect.

If you are as you claim to be a school teacher you must rate as a total idiot more intent on indoctrination than in teaching facts. In the past you at least made an effort to sound semi reasonable. You have no entered the realm of hapless twit

Hey Wobbie, you decided if you're

finally going to tell us the truth???

Are you guilty of..
1. Impersonating an officer?
---------OR----------
2. Violating the UCMJ?


Remember what MyOpine told you... "Leavenworth!"


Oh, and sorry you got ALL of your posts pulled from Burt's column on Mon. Geeze, how did that happen??? HA HA HA




WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
"Live by the sword, die by the sword" is a metaphorical expression meaning that living one's life in a certain way will, in the end, affect one's destiny. The proverb comes from the Book of Matthew, verse 26:52, which describes the apostle Peter drawing a sword to defend Jesus against Roman soldiers, but is told to sheath the weapon:

"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

—Matthew 26:52

Pat…
Pat…

Do you really think that talking will help? What shall we talk to them about? Is there anything that we have in common with them, to talk about? What is it that they need to do? What is it that we need to do? I do not see any common grounds for talking; actions speak louder than words.

Barack Buchanan
Once again Pat B has no clue. This guy is a multi-loser who shouldn't have a medium available to him so he can write his idiocy. Thank God he is on the sidelines.

In Whigs We Trust
I cannot help but notice that your article receives a poor rating from Town Hall readers despite your well reasoned, rational observations. When a movement cannot accept statements of fact from one of its most distinguished members...what is the foundation for it's beliefs? I fear that the grand coalition has dwarfed into the grand demolition.

Great article Pat!

Arguably, Wilson's foray into WWI sowed the seeds for WWII. Be interesting to see what disaster both Bush's meddling in the Middle East brings about. God forgive me for voting for those fools.

McCain or McInsain


SSGT2
Your argument lack facts or logic. McCain is the dream candidate of the AQ psychopaths who would love nothing more than the US take out Iran, or try.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/33316

Anne
If IDF arrests an Iranian in Gaza, odds are its a lie. A country that illegally occupies another nation country as in the West Bank, and tortures people, doesn't as a rule, have qualms about being honest.

sempervigilans
actually the country wants us out of iraq in the near future that is why even mccain put a date on it of 2013.

"Regardless of how you intend to vote, what would you prefer the next president do about the war in Iraq? Would you prefer the next president try to end the Iraq war within the next year or two, no matter what, or continue to fight the Iraq war as long as they felt it was necessary?" N=956 registered voters, MoE ± 3 (for all registered voters)

.

End war Continue Unsure
% % %
All reg. voters
62 34 4
Republicans
26 68 6
Democrats
89 10 1
Independents
63 31 6


http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

latest news
We can negotiate with these people?


News comes that the Palestinian Authority is demanding Israel accept the establishment of a standing Palestinian army as a term in the peace negotiations taking place between the two countries. Previous accords had made clear the new Palestinian state was to be demilitarized, leaving the Israeli negotiators frustrated with the new terms.

Israeli Foreign Affairs Minister Tzipi Livni expressed her concern : "We are talking about a demilitarized state here (.) we will not stand for a terror state or an extremist Islamist state. There are conditions that will have to be met, before and after. I don't hold by just tossing the keys over the border and hoping for the best. There will be no agreement over the future territory if there won't be satisfactory assurances regarding what its nature will be." Of course one must only wonder what roll Iran would play in establishing this army.

The news comes as Israel Defense forces announced the arrest of an Iranian-trained terrorist in Gaza with links to mortar attacks and who was reportedly preparing for a suicide mission. The arrest, officials say, is evidence of the undeniable link between Iran and terrorist activities in the Middle East.

Several months ago I was having a

debate/discussion... no, it was an argument since lefties are incapable of debate or discussion....

I mentioned that the poster was "talking in circles."

The poster's reply was, AND I QUOTE, "Yeah, but those circles have a point!"

No doubt that that particular post was THE SINGLE DUMBEST posts I'd ever read on TH.

I got an "A" in high school geometry, but even those who did not, all knew that "circles do not have corners!"

I believe that Akagi is probably hold a very close second to that infamous post.....




Pat is a fool
He's the one that needs to take Pope's advice.

In his ever-present dedication to attacking Israel, Bush (who often deserves it), and his insistence on defending German imperialism, he mangles history.

Sure, Pat...the Germans would have been happy just taking Danzig. *scoff* - Why not? It worked out so well for Austrians and the Czechs!

By the time those "stubborn Poles" refused to give Germany Danzig, the Austrians had already been forced under German rule and the Czechs had also been overrun after given up the Sudetenland.

Hitler only asked for particular areas to seem like they were reasonable requests and because of their military value for launching future attacks.

Pat, please don't insult others while putting yourself as some sort of master historian - especially if you are going to make ridiculous statements like this that would get you laughed out of any college level history course.

Dachau was started in 1933
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/TIMELINE/camps.htm

Perhaps that had something to do with the Czech and Polish resistance to German rule!

Israel
Israel isn't going anywhere. Read Ez 38/39


Israel will last until Christ returns and they at last recognize their Messiah.


From "The Seven Feasts of Israel"...

"We would look in vain in the New Testament for a fulfillment for the Day of Atonement. This is the one feast which is not fulfilled by the Church, becasue the Church owes no atonement. The church is not innocent of course, but it is exonerated. Jesus paid off the sins of everyone of us. But these are Jewish feasts, and each one is fulfilled for the Jews. The Day of Atonement will be fulfilled in a wonderful way when the Lord returns at His second coming. Zechariah's marvelous poetry pictures the reaction of Israel to the very sight of the King of the Jews returning:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look upon me when they have pieced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zech 12:10

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. Zech 13:16






Retired Geek
Thanks

The nutjob is VERY busy in our hemisphere with Russian and Chinese backing and no one is paying attention.


Earlier in the week Chavez announced he had purchased military planes from China, expanding both its arms and its relationship with Beijing. "We continue working on the issue of military equipment, even though they accuse me of launching an arms race," he said. "I'm not launching an arms race. Military expenditures are necessary for the country's defense."

The purchase coincided with a visit to Caracas by the Chinese to discuss the construction of an oil refinery in China to process Venezuelan oil. The meeting was held within days of a cultural confab between Iran and China in Tehran.


Israel has also faced indirect scorn from across the Atlantic, when earlier this year Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez pronounced neighboring Columbia the "Israel of South America" in his attempt to legitimize the ordering of Venezuelan troops to the border .


Columbia is the "Israel" of South America? That is if they don't play along with Chavez, the nutjob and Nicaragua.


Rick Santorum sends out a regular newsletter called "The Gathering Storm". Tracking events in ME, Chavez, etc. I haven't heard anyone talking about this stuff but him.

EPPC (Ethics and Public Policy Center)


have a good day!





Retired Geek
Back at ya. I always enjoy your comments, which are uniformly coherent and logical.

Akagi: OK, got it. I'm not sure where you get the idea that most Americans want to pull out of Iraq before the job is done. I venture to say that ALL Americans want to pull out of Iraq when Iraq is stable, self-governing, and can defend herself. I certainly do. But that is not the same thing as wanting to just pack up tomorrow and leave Iraqis to their fate. It's also possible, as quite a number of polls showed in 2005-6, for people to think our policy in Iraq wasn't working, but to prefer to stay and finish the job, using a better policy.

Being against an initiative because it might fail through loss of will is not exactly the epitome of analysis or wisdom. It's actually just pessimism. Self-fulfilling prophecies are only self-fulfilling BECAUSE of pessimism and loss of will. It's not dumb to argue against losing our will. When we don't lose it, we achieve positive outcomes -- pieces of what B.H. Liddell-Hart called "a better peace." Not even trying, on the other hand, has never produced any good outcome, as a number of the events you refer to demonstrate.

So, don't lose heart about our efforts in either Iraq or Afghanistan. People can and do choose NOT to lose their will. Let this be one of the times.

Taft
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You write:

"The scary thing is McCain hasn't a clue about our enemy, mistake number one in a war. Obama on the other hand is highly praised by ME experts and foreign policy analyst"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO, Taft, the ME wants that spineless weasel because he is a cowardly puke, like the rest of you pointless pond-scum. Run from the enemy, they will not follow, after your dead that is!


Ags
I don't agree with your claims, meaning: I do not believe them. And honestly, coming from you and your barking like a dog like tone, I do not respond well to that.

I have read countless claims on the evils of Israel and the Jooooos, how they were the cause of millions of deaths, caused millions of crimes, they have a master plan to take over the world, they are the usurpers of all resources, they are the Mothers of Communism, they are the racists, they are treating the poor misunderstood and cuddly Palestinians like dirt, they are spying on us and selling secrets to our enemies, and those darn Jews better apologize to the world for the terrible things they have committed and are committing since the begining of time, yaddah...yaddah...yaddah.

I'm sure if I left anything out, you probably could add a few more diddies.

Go ahead and do it, I certainly don't see anyone cheering you on lately. Of course, your intelligence and vast resources far exceeds everyone here.

Taft writes:
"The scary thing is McCain hasn't a clue about our enemy, mistake number one in a war. Obama on the other hand is highly praised by ME experts and foreign policy analysts..."
-----

C'mon, Taft. Tell me you didn't post that with a straight face.

No wonder our enemies support Obama for president with thinking like that.

Back in Saddle
There are some really hopeful negotiation that could take place when we get a smart president. This is a must read..

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21112

"A number of Iranian officials—including President Ahmadinejad himself—have already publicly endorsed a multilateral solution. Of course, Iran's concept of multilateral enrichment is likely to be different from an American or European version, but those differences could, we believe, be resolved in negotiations."

Shells
"Here he is again though. That's ok, I can handle it."

You got it Shells, but if you ever do, just holler. I'm more than willing to come to the cause!
LOL

Ha, ha, ha - "Fraud" Robert writes:
Robert Location: TX
Reply # 247
Date: May 20, 2008 - 4:20 PM EST
Subject: Latter/later
of for some sleep...the right wing always needs an enemy...
-----

Anybody else think it's hilarious that the only "Robert" post on this entire thread was to let us know he is off to liberal dreamland?

Like anyone cares???

SnoShoe
"The Islamonuts don't care. They welcome a glorious death for Allah."

That's right, but only, as I understand it, it they are themselves being attacked. As in the Iraq war, Iraq attacked Iran, and then it was "glorious" death. Now AQ is different, they are completely nuts and are trying to get a nuclear bomb and would use it. But suicide is as condemned in Islam as much as it is in Catholicism. This is the reason AQ has been hounded out of every country in the world. Saudi Arabia cuts of their heads as a deterrent. The scary thing is McCain hasn't a clue about our enemy, mistake number one in a war. Obama on the other hand is highly praised by ME experts and foreign policy analysts.

Shells
The Far Eastern THING has the distorted idea that he has an idea anyone is interested in. You had to appreciate the THING's observation about Jews having a better PR machine than Chinese landlords/peasants due to Anne Frank's Diary.

The THING shows the flaws in our immigration system.

Hope all is well with you. And, by ignoring the THING, I hope all can get back to a reasonable discussion on the thread.

Always appreciate your posts!

What Pat forgets
The Soviet Union and even China knew there were rules to owning Nuclear weapons. They knew if they used them the world would end and they would lose. The Islamonuts don't care. They welcome a glorious death for Allah. The Iranians would give them to any radical Islamonut with Jihad on his mind and the consequents be damned.

Israel has been negotiating with the Palestinians for decades and have gotten no where simply because the Palestinians want it all, including the state of Israel to go away for ever.

How do you negotiate with someone holding a gun to your head who doesn't care if he dies and if he kills you, so much the better?

Semper Fi

Gunny J

Yes Shells
I think most people would oppose other countries spying on theirs and then turning that information over to countries that are considered potential enemies--e.g. China and the USSR. Did Israel need details on the entire US global electronic surveillance network to find out what the US "was going to do to it next" to paraphrase you. You think it is good for Israel to sell US intelligence it has acquired to Russia and China? It is a good idea to sell weapons the US and Israel jointly developed to China--i.e. the air-to-air missiles now used by the PLAAF's J8 and J11?

yes, you are going to have a difficult time with me when you claim this is the type of activity an ally engages in.



SSGT2
Hello there! Yes, I discovered RW, or should I say, he discovered me last week on articles regarding Israel's 60th birthday.

Of course, joining the party on a couple of articles were Boutte, Sir Aslan, Nemecyst, Warrior...The usual suspects on any article pertaining to Israel, Jews, or written by a Jew.

Apparently, RW singled me out and tried to dismantle my posts and attempted to make me look ridiculous. He failed. Twice, or three times I believe.

Here he is again though. That's ok, I can handle it.

Khomar
I am a Christian too.

I hope you are recognizing the signs. The most important thing to happen as a result of WWII was the creation of the nation of Israel.

God is sovereign over everything and moving the pieces to accomplish his aims. It is interesting (in a somewhat scary way) to see how things are playing out.

We are very close to one world gov.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=436 95

Corsi is a Christian and you might want to read his archives.


It isn't going to matter who wins the election. Obama scares me the most, but America is finished. Righteousness exalts a nation.


“Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leave begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door…….Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. Matt 24;32-35


I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men.
Ben Franklin




Anna posts were Informative
Thanks for your posts - they were very infomative!

A few days ago
I said I lived near an unincorporated "town" which is basically a few strip malls, some gas sations, a few schools, a church, some cattle farms which is a few miles from a the big city of 9000 people or so which last made the news in May of 1864 when Sherman was about. Does that sound like Atlanta to you?

SemperVigilans:

"Wherever the US has not intervened, has pulled our punches, or has not honored our obligations, war, famine, repression, and mass murder have resulted. You've made a case, not that America needs to shut up and get over herself, but that the world suffers when we don't muster the will to administer it better."

I totally agree, but the problem is that the US doesn't have the political will to do so. Most want to pull out of Iraq just as most wanted to pull out of Vietnam and Korea when things bogged down in 1951. My beef if you can call it one is the US failure to follow through, which is why many didn't support the US in the region this time around with Saddam--they were afraid the US wouldn't follow through and they'd be left next door to an angry Saddam and all alone.






Khomar
"If you want to seek reconciliation, you must start somewhere."

What's your plan for reconcillation with the person who wants to kill you?



"There is no great hatred between the Persians and the Jews."

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reportedly called the Jewish state a "stinking corpse," among other sentiments. "The Zionist regime is dying," Ahmadinejad said in a speech . "The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations ... they can save the Zionist regime from death."

"They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it)," he added."

Can't you just feel the LOVE? BTW, Mullahs were meeting with Hitler to help out on the "final solution". Jews were already being killed or driven out of the ME or reduced to dhimmi status in places like Iran that won't let them out.


Here's the best one on Iran!!

"In fact, they have shown a willingness to make concessions to promote peace and stability in the region."

You mean like funding the insurgency in Iraq?

Or how about this for promoting peace? "Of course, for Iran to back the coup that happened in Lebanon and support it will have an impact on its relations with all Arab countries," Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said yesterday.

And who is behind Syria? I suppose knocking off the moderate leader in Lebannon was a good thing. Or basically destroying Lebannon, read "Because They Hate".


I will not hold my breath on being able to negotiate with a mad dog.


Zedsmom
Good to see you too.

Basically your entire thread with Ah Gassy only goes to prove our point: There are just some people you cannot come to terms with.

I started with him or her, and I knew right away there was no having a normal discussion based on realities, so I opted out. Regardless if you could link it, show the video, or have eye witness accounts to disprove what he wails on...he will not open up and ponder outside of the box he is inside.

There is no discussion, just pounding words, insults and BS....which is why trying to have discussions with Ahmenijihad is pointless.

SemperVigilans
Your 5:12 pm post is as good as I have seen on TH.

Clear, lucid and to the point.

Thanks!

Intelligence
Yeah Greek:

Yes, only if you redefine the term. They only these these two bimbos can offer is comments on my name and calling me gassy.

So Zedsmom:

Care to look at the GDP of Sichuan?

The Li Fa Yuan is actually pretty calm. Now that the KMT/PFP has 75% of the seats we shall see if it remains so, but in the 1990s, the KMT had all but 13 seats of a 225-seat Li Fa Yuan and the only way to stop the KMT from pushing through legislation was to basically cause a riot on the floor. Oh it was almost impossible to increase the numbers of the DPP because most of the Li Fa Yuan members were frozen in office since the 1948 elections in China and since the DDP wasn't formed until 1986 and parties other than the KMT (and two minor parties supported by the KMT) weren't legalized until 1987, the frozen seats were all KMT.

SSGT:

Misawa, yes. In northern Honshu, Aomori Prefecture and site of a major USAF base. Why?


Akagi
Tell me again what your main point is? I think I saw someone comment that your real beef is with liberal-left approaches that produce such pusillanimities as America's failure to honor our obligation to South Vietnam in 1975. That seems about right to me. The people who disagree with Buchanan here would pretty much all say that Saigon '75 was a result of a national policy failure.

What we would NOT say is that such outcomes are inevitable with any policy, no matter how it starts or is carried out. It was domestic politics, not fate, that brought about our failure in Vietnam. Buchanan has been arguing for some time now for the kind of political approach that lays out red carpets for Hitlers, Maos, and Pol Pots. This article is hilariously up-front about that, even excoriating Poland for not rolling out a red carpet for Hitler in Danzig.

If your point is that people are just stupid, well, congratulations. You're only about the 10 bilionth young person to come up with that dazzling insight.

But rest assured, you aren't telling us things we don't know. In fact, you have outlined beautifully the global consequences of American weakness. Wherever the US has not intervened, has pulled our punches, or has not honored our obligations, war, famine, repression, and mass murder have resulted. You've made a case, not that America needs to shut up and get over herself, but that the world suffers when we don't muster the will to administer it better.


a bit more on Iran
There is much more going on, but this is just a taste...

"In a budding relationship that has alarmed the Bush Administration, Iran has promised to help finance a new $350 million ocean port and build 10,000 houses for the leftist Nicaraguan govern­ment. Ortega met recently with Iranian Deputy Energy Minister Hamid Chitchian to urge Iran to help build several hydroelectric plants in Nicaragua to help end the power crisis. Iran has committed to just one plant for now. Chitchian pledged to select a site for a $120 million hydroelectric project. Nicara­guans have to cope with blackouts nearly every day. According to some reports, Iran is construct­ing one of its largest embassies in the world in Man­agua--much larger than Nicaragua's size would dictate. Some observers suspect that Iran intends to use its big new embassy as a base for intelligence operations against the United States."


The Financial Times reports that China's biggest oil refiner, Sinopec, and Iran have signed a $2 billion oil deal to develop the Yadavaran oil field in southwestern Iran.

"If other countries who like to invest in oil and gas hesitate, they will lose opportunities," said Iran's oil minister, Gholam-Hossein Nozari.

Russian investments in Iranian oil are moving forward as well . According to Iran's deputy oil minister, Hossein Noqrekar Shirazi , previous agreements are set to be made operational in Moscow this week.

"Iran and Russia will soon open a new chapter in their cooperation in the oil and gas sectors," said Noqrekar Shirazi.


Iran has a "Culture and Relations Organization" in Latin America.

"...He added that Iran shares with Latin America a history of fighting injustice and imperialism, and that this has "provided a very good opportunity for these states to receive the message of the Islamic Revolution with their hearts and minds."




renny's heart's in the right place...
...but Silesia wasn't: Silesia was already part of Germany, from medieval times until 1945, and though it has no oil, it's known for its mines, principally coal.

But your second paragraph well encapsulates Hitler's attitude when looking eastward: it was all about Lebensraum, and the nations in his way were populated by Slavs and Jews, Untermensch in his estimation.

Akagi
you should follow up on your history poor fellow. I'm thru with my lesson to you today. Maybe another time. In the mean time, remember to take that shower. The stench from a Binjo is quite, well, unbecoming, if you catch my drift!

Little Buddha
You forget that you talked about where you live in a post a while back. You are so self-absorbed that you forget, nit-wit. Would I come harm you? No. I just think some law enforcement agencies ought to be aware of you.

I WILL NOT DISCUSS OUR CHILDREN WITH A FOREIGNER LIKE YOU WHO HATES MY COUNTRY AND OUR CITIZENS SO MUCH.

To mimic your sorry English: "Oh, and" take a hike you little twit.

Iran
Iran is a small country? They don't have a decent army? They're not expansionist?

Iran is very busy in Central America and no one is paying attention. China and Russia are involved, and working closely with the nutjob and Chavez.

Basically they are all united in their desire to take down the US.

I agree with Mark Steyn's assessment that it is the weaknesses of our enemies that are the greatest threat to us. Russia is a dying country, what will they do on the way out to reassert their power? What is China going to do with all that young testosterone?


"That is it in a nutshell. It is the Iran-Venezuela-Nicaragua nexus, built on a foundation of already-existing Hezbollah and Hamas operatives who have been economically active in the region for decades. These groups have primarily focused on the laundering and procurement of cash for their home groups, not carrying out direct acts of terrorism against targets in this hemisphere," he writes. ... "What has changed, with the advent of the Chavez/Ahmadinejad alliance, is that Iran (and by extension Hezbollah) now has numerous state platforms from which to launch attacks in this hemisphere, should it be judged to be necessary. The trigger would likely be military action against Iran."

I think it is optimistic to say that only attacking Iran would trigger action against us.
I don't see any reason to doubt their stated aims of wanting to reduce and ultimately to not sell oil to us.

BTW, it's our own money funding the war against ourselves. Isn't it grand!


Again
SSGT2:

I have no idea what country you are talking about. What country is it that I am supposed not to know anything about which you reference in your above post #268.

Very doubtful the US would invade China, it is having enough issues trying to pacify Iraq--oh China does have 400 nuclear warheads too, I don't think the world would like the result of a unlimited war between the US and the PRC with various major cities on both sides of the Pacific vaporized--very bad for the environment you know, it would solve global warming though--if you believe in that.


Little Buddha
You guess the Jews have better PR than Chinese landlords or Chinese peasants? Don't you dare even compare the two. You call the Diary of Anne Frank PR? You savage little pig.

The great Chinese people think enough of their children to build schools with substandard reinforcement.

You want real entertainment, watch the Taiwanese legislative sessions. They don't even have the class of a WWE program.

Superior socially? Give your lame rump a rest.

Akagi and women
Zedsmom and Anne have made you look like a fool!

Wait until the other women get hold of you!

No disrespect for these wonderful intelligent women but you deserve a whipping from women.


Akagi
Does Misawa ring any Far East bells to ya?

Pat apply your words to yourself
Patty boy wrote: "A little learning is a dangerous thing," wrote Alexander Pope."
================================================

You need to harken to your own words!




negotiation?
The nutjob IS a madman. He is insane. If people like Boutte think appeasement in the form of self annihilation is acceptable then we can negotiate with him.


another poster put it succinctly...

"Ahmadenijad has already set the terms for any negotiations with the US when he said in 2006: "We will gladly discuss with the US their military withdrawal from Iraq and the Middle East and offer our assistance to help them." This is what the mullahs want from us so they can, in Ahmadenijad's words: "Fill the power vacuum left in the region by America's withdrawal." Unless we are prepared to beat a retreat from the Middle East and allow Iran to become the nuclear armed hegemony of the region Tehran has no real interest in talking to us. "



The nutjobs (and his like minded allies) ambitions do not stop in the ME. They are looking for a worldwide Caliphate. And they are making a lot of progress.

"First the Saturday people (Jews), then the Sunday people (Christians)" This is entirely true.



Obama does not care about America. He is deluded and if he is elected our fall will be swift.

Hitler said he was
happy Chamberlain assisted with Germany's re-absorbtion of Austria's Sudatenland because Hitler wasn't ready to fight France and Eng. in 1938.

He also chose Poland in 1939 for the Silesian oil fields and for his half-cracked racial theory that Poles were *untermeschen* (less than human) and Ger. would need Poland to expand into.

McCain and Bush are right that we don't negotiate with tyrants and despots and terrorists because is gives them legal recognition and the *talks* (Europe has been talking to Iran for 5 or 6 years) simply give the enemy time to recuperate and rebuild.

I'm glad Bush made the remarks and gladder that Obama took offense. He is offensive and a naive baby on foreign policy. I find it interesting that the big O says he'll debate Bush or McCain any time any place, but he's afraid to debate Hillary again. He's a real tough guy.

Akagi
I spent 4 yrs in that country you claim not to know about! 2 years in Korea, 1 in the PI. Never had the pleasure of China, but one day when we invade them, I should be soooooo lucky.
Don't play simple with me, your out of your league rascal!

No
But he commented about sewerlines in plain view, I'd just like to know what country he is talking about.


Zedsmom
You don't think lack of discipline is not a problem in the US? You don't think many children aren't out of control in the US? And the reason they are savages is because the parents let them become savages. But what does this have to do with WWII? Oh and there are other places in Georgia outside of Atlanta, just so you know.

Yes Anne and as well established before a number of other things and when you again have to resort to talking about my name you have again shown there is nothing left in that tiny brain of yours.

Sarge
Just watch Mr. Got English conquered when he starts shredding. The little twit starts falling apart.

As to which Far Eastern country, does it really matter? The great 'civilized' Far East. Little Buddha starts the questions when he is cornered.

Obama and Hamas
Obama will not have to negotiate or talk to hamas they already have phone banks calling American citizens asking them to vote for their 'main man'.

Iranians are probably next to support Obama and ask Americans to vote for Obama.

I wonder what it would take for Liberals to see what is going on with Obama and terrorists?

Whoops my bad, Liberals share a different reality than the rest of the world!

Iran is in bad trouble economically and getting oil out of the ground and the Iranian people are starting to grumble.

Obama will make it a top priority right after he is in office to meet with Ahminajead to shore up his 'bro' and legitimize him to thw world and make the Iranians have a leader that has relevance.

Obama - What a Guy!

shells
hello! Let me tell you just a tid bit about RW. RW, along with killer, belong to the mommas little sissy boys club. They think that all manner of death to americans is justified, and all manner of death at the hands of americans is not. Therefore, when I respond to them, I start off first with sissy boy!

Lumberjack
Gassy is a little nuisance who tries to make himself relevant by criticizing this country and Americans. He struggles to prove the bell curve from the bottom of the moral toilet.

LJ:
Never said that or even implied that.

And SSGT, what country are you talking about?


Ah Gassy, the sunken ship
Who Zed is is none of your sorry business. Who you are is what you are making of this thread. It is always what you try to make of the thread.

Your kind is a sorry import that does nothing but slam my country and my people, twit. You have no standing to do that.

At your post 224, you say, '...if there was more of that (BEATINGS) in the US, you'd have less problems with the savages you call "children"'. You little twisted sister. I'll just bet you are sorry you don't have an audio of the screams from Nanking to play to soothe your twisted mind.

You tell Anne 'to go find' something. Step from behind that keyboard in Atlanta.

Ret.Geek: Unfortunately, Akagi's REAL

problem is his arrogance...

Above he says, "I reject..." Puh......

No doubt it really annoys him that he actually posted something I agreed with... But, won't make that mistake again....

And, why anyone would chose a "handle" that of a ship sitting on the bottom of the Pacific...???



Akagi:
I get the impression you wish Japan had won the war. It seems that in your mind the Japanese did no wrong prior to 1941.