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Sunday, November 25, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
'No-Fault' = No Kids
by Kevin McCullough
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As a general rule, plaintiffs who file for "no-fault" divorce should be found unfit to gain custody of their children. This should be done for the protection of the children involved. But most importantly it should be done to restrain the growth rate of the scourge known as "no-fault" divorce.

Radical homosexual activists have been bold in their attempt to redefine the basic make-up of the family by assaulting the God ordained institution of marriage with whatever creative sexual union could be devised. Yet the damage they've inflicted upon children to date is miniscule compared to the arrogance, selfishness, and defiance that the plaintiffs of "no-fault" divorce have unleashed upon child after child.

Particularly dangerous has been the growing effect of women seeking no-fault divorce only to then seek casual cohabitation with replacement men. According to this Associated Press story out last week "abusive-boyfriend" syndrome is increasingly putting children into not just emotional, spiritual, and mental jeopardy - but now sadly - increasing physical risk of life and limb.

    • Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.
    • Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.
    • Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University.

The problem in large measure is that plaintiffs in "No-Fault" cases are living in such denial and total and complete selfishness that they don't truly care about the welfare of their children - not truly.

Oh they may say they do - especially when their guilty conscience comes to the custody portion of the divorce proceeding. Overcome by the guilt they know in their hearts as to how immoral their "no-fault" claim is that in order to compensate for a failed marriage - they publicly verbalize their propaganda to being all that much better of a parental unit. Yet in reality this argument is disingenuous given the fact that they are saying before the court that they are willing to destabilize the life of their children for literally "no reason."

I am not arguing that possible legitimate reasons for marital dissolution should be eliminated in custody concerns. Infidelity, abuse, and addictive behaviors should serve as distinct considerations when evaluating the decision-making ability, integrity, and trustworthiness of the potential parents who seek custody. But the idea that one can come before a judge and say "there is no legitimate reason" for us to crack up the stability of the universe that I committed to providing for the children I was given responsibility for seems a stretch in logic.

Prior to the emergence of "no-fault" divorces faith and legal communities both helped restrain people's willingness to divorce. In forcing the plaintiff to cite a cause as to why such a tragic measure should be taken the message to society was strong. Adultery jeopardizes the welfare of children, because it jeopardized the welfare of the marriage that created those children. Physical abuse was seen as a criminal aberration in marriage - one that was carried out by a minority of those who engaged in the institution and certainly one that puts the welfare of spouse and children in physical risk of injury and life. Addictive behaviors and abandonment are all also easily understandable risks to the health of the family unit.

Yet here is the fowl smelling stench of the truth behind "no fault" divorce. Sinful humans grew tired of having to live up to the vows they took before God, and the responsibilities they committed to before man.

Wanting to fornicate without consequence wasn't enough - now we wanted a guilt free way to make it happen. So as a result people are "finding themselves", "trying to figure things out", or stating that "they are not ready for the responsibilities" that marriage brings with it and just need an amicable way of exiting the situation.

Yet they were "responsible" enough to form a legal union, create children, and begin the act of attempting to parent them?

Many decades ago the average age at which people got married was younger, even in the teens in many cases - and the maturation process of the persons involved in these unions was something that grew as the commitments of life multiplied.

Today it is our pathetic desire to extend adolescence to later and later into adulthood coupled with the sin of envy that is more often than not the root cause of the whole demonic lie of why "no fault" divorce is so "necessary."

This scourge has brought with it some additional unforeseen secondary problems as well. Violence against the non-blood-related children by the new man is just one example. (In nature the new lion will often eat the cubs of the previous male when mating with a previously mated lioness.) Men who cruise women with children is a phenomenon now that we can track statistically. And then there is the Woody Allen syndrome of the individual who is drawn toward sexual acting out with the blooming daughters of the formerly married woman.

Put bluntly there is NO benefit to the children of a society that makes marriage as easy to escape from as choosing which store to shop at.

And the price of doing so is killing our children.

We should return to the day of accountability and responsibility as a culture - particularly when it comes to the welfare of children.

And plaintiffs who file for "no-fault" divorces should be ready to lose their children in the process of doing so.

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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Awwww
Poor little Kevins parents broke up, turning him into a twisted and confused little man.

Bitter much?
Viscious diatribe like you spout usually comes back to haunt the spouter. Remember that when it comes back to bite you in the arse....

KS
Like I said: go watch It's a Wonderful Life go watch It's a wonderful Life go watch It's a Wonderful Life go watch It's a wonderful life go watch It's a wonderful life go watch It's a wonderful life go watch it's It's a wonderful life.

You remind me of the Sudanese and the teddy bear naming fiasco. You take a perfectly nice message and get all hateful and spiteful and mean over nothing.

Do you remember Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed. Subversive to you are they? Destroying American civilization? twit pea brain blockhead
You must drive your children to distraction.








Don't get
too caught up in the word 'hate'. It is overused by you doctrinnaire liberals and carried little meaning and less weight when you guys use it. Perhaps you should diversify your vocabulary a bit more. You are the one who suggested that Anne never have the children she adores....and I am the one 'hateful'? How typically liberal of you.

unsolicted advice
If suggesting that you read posts before responding with hate is unsolicited advice, boy do I have a lot of unsolicited advice for you like "start your car before attempting to drive it." Get up and out of bed before attempting to go to work. Take the food out of the refrigerator before attempting to eat it.
Sit down on the toilet before having a movement.









KS
hopeless stupid hate full

Thank you so much for showing me what it is about the Right that the Left hates so much. I did not understand before "meeting" you and Anne.

Bytheoclean
your line "I give you the same advice " convinced me again that you are a liberal. Typical liberal penchant for giving unsolicited advice. As for you pseudo-Liberals, 'hate' is anytime someone points out your preference for anti-children and anti-family policies. I am sure Mr. McCullough is crying a river of tears learning that you will never read him again. Again, probably a good choice: you will find much more 'comfort' in reading something written by some worthless divorce lawyer, social worker, or 'family court' judge.

KS
I give you the same advice I gave Anne. Do be sure to watch It's a Wonderful life with Jimmy Stewart as the Xmas season is here and do be sure to write and complain to every television channel about the subversive theme of the movie about appreciating life by recognizing what life would have been like without the existence of the people you love in it. You can read. You can not comprehend. You are a fool. Hopefully if you write the tv channels complaining about showing the movie you will be seen as the extreme nut case that you are. That was the point I was making which is beyond Anne's comprehension, with all her sniveling about looking into the sad eyes of her children. I said be grateful for what you've got. You have your childrens' eyes to look into. But no, you are too hateful and pig headed to get the message.
I have seen hate and stupidity on the Left. You and Anne and this guy Kevin is the first time I have seen hate and stupidity on the right. I guess I am naive. Why don't you read everything I posted slowly and maybe you will figure it out. I doubt I will read Kevin again. he is not bright and I do not like the kind of company he attracts.


Bytheoclean
don't let the door hit you on the way out dear. Anyone who says that children are better off not existing is not a conservative; anyone who defends unilateral no-fault divorce is not a conservative. You fit both descriptions. Ergo, not a conservative. So, you may feel more at peace in the Dem party anyway.

KSReaganite
You cannot read nor understand either. Absolutely fascinating.
Glad to know there are all three conservatives at townhall, Kevin McCullough, Anne, and KSReaganite, who will hold onto the conservative fort against all the rest of us conservatives at townhall.
Keep it up and maybe I will decide before the next election that I don't want to stand on the same side as you guys. Everytime you open your mouths you create more democrats. Keep talking.






Anne,
it's not surprising that liberals like Bytheoclean and her ilk would rather have 'non-existence' of children. That alone tells you how they rate the welfare of kids. Beyond their own self righteousness and defense of selfishness (hence the instant popularity of unilateral no-fault divorce), these people can't see too far.

Oh yes, Bytheoclean, you are a lib through and through...no question about it.

Well Mr McCullough
How would you like to be married to Anne for the rest of eternity? Sort of proves the point for why we need no fault divorce.




Anne
I am not a lib.

Bytheocean: Yeah, I know, the libs

really don't like me... :-) Thank goodness! Whew.

And, as I'm relieved that you don't like or understand my posts... I'd be worried if you did.

Just good to know that I'm much happier, and clearly have done MUCH better than you. Jealous perhaps? :-)






Anne
You obviously are incapable of understanding what I am saying so i am not even going to try again.

You are one hateful piece of work.

And I am not the only one who is not impressed by you. I guess you can't comprehend their posts either.


Bytheocean: You're not even close.

AGAIN, you didn't comprehend my post.

"..... stop bellyaching and start living in gratitude.

If you were able to read and comprehend anything, then you'd know that I was not "bellyaching."

Did you not understand that I was the one who said that my divorce was a GOOD THING?

Let me repeat that for you... My DIVORCE WAS A GOOD THING FOR ME!

Did you not understand that:

1) I returned to school and earned two Masters.

2) I've bought and sold three homes.

3) Had one home built.

4) Earn a six figure income.

5) Earn enough to buy myself a Mercedes.

Does that sound like I'm on the edge of poverty to you?


Actually, I am quite happy, thank you. :-) And, sorry to disappoint you, no brutish boyfriends in my life.


But, it sure wounds like YOU'VE had more than a few in your life, and based on your inability to read and comprehend, it appears that you might be suffering from some broken bones (head included) and perhaps too much drugs and alcohol to addle your brain.





Anne
What I was suggesting was that you stop bellyaching and start living in gratitude. But obviously that message is too much for you to handle.

So go watch "It's a Wonderful Life" since we are entering the Christmas season and it will be on TV and then you can write letters of complaint to the television studios for showing such a stooooooooopid movie.

With all your bellyaching I was wondering if you were living on the edge of poverty watching your children in the emergency rooms with broken bones by your brutish boyfriends.






Bytheocean: Somehow you remind me of

the old unmarried aunt who thinks she knows best how to "have a good marriage" and "raise children," when in fact, you know nothing what so ever about either.






Bytheocean: Obviously YOU did NOT read

my post, or you have a serious comprehension problem.

See, you missed the whole point!

Not that it's any of your business, but just to set YOU straight, the divorce was a long time ago. Since then I returned to school and got two Masters. I've bought and sold three homes... and had one built. I earn a six figure income, and enough to buy myself a Mercedes.

Yes, the divorce was a good thing for me. I moved on with my life, and accomplished things that I never thought I could accomplish while I was married.

BUT, my children, just as every child who goes through a divorce, still carries the pain and the scars of their parent's divorce.

However, both of my children have done well. My daughter is half way through her Ph D program, and both my daughter and my son have beautiful, bright children...

I have no idea why you would suggest that I even entertain the thought of not having them

Dumbest notion in the world. But, if you have no children of you own, of course, you couldn't understand where any parent is coming from.







Anne
As I understand it, Cheney has a pacemaker in charge of the rhythm of the bottom of his heart and a defibrillator in charge of the rhythm of the top of his heart. How would you like to be in his shoes? How about being grateful that your heart is beating on its own, if it is?


Anne continued
So you are hurting. You are also a very angry person. Why do you come on a blog if you don't want to hear new ideas? You just want to play your sob story of a life like a record player going round and round, over and over. Jewishworldreview has articles but does not have a blog. You could just read the article. You don't have a place to place comments nor receive feedback.
I was in a classroom and there was a divorced woman. She had the cutest son ever in existence, sort of like Huckelberry Finn. All the mother did was whine about being a mother. She totally overlooked how wonderful he was, and what a gift he was. She made his life miserable. They had food. They had a place to live. Ok it wasn't what she had planned on. God does not like whiners. He likes gratitude. He can take your children away in a heartbeat. Then you'll be crying over what you had and lost. He can take away your health if you have it.
Maybe you have been the stupidest women in existence. Maybe you can't forgive yourself. I don't know what your story is.

Anne
Why is the movie such a success if it is such a stupid point? It's a Wonderful Life.
I married with the intention of having three children. We had them named before the marriage. My husband unilaterally decided that he didn't want to have children during the time frame that I would be fertile. That ended the marriage. No children.
It is not a stupid question to ask when you think of the pain of looking into the sad eyes of your children if you would have preferred for them never to have been born, and also to ask them as well.
Ok I did not have a messy life. I have no children from divorce. I have no children from outside wedlock. I have no children period.
I can't tell if you divorced and then shacked up with a boyfriend who physically beat your kids up. You seem to live by the article that this writer wrote, and alluded to what pediatricians have seen. If that all is your case, then you have compounded mistakes. I don't know if your husband walked out on you and you feel that if there had been better tighter laws you would have had a better life. Well he would not have been there emotionally. There are ways to make him pay child support unless you also chose a man who did not make an income. As Dr Laura once said, even birds insist that the male bird feed her and build a nest with her before she lays eggs. That's a bird brain whose brain weighs about 1/2 ounce.


Anne: "down and SHUT UP!"
"I went through an ugly, nasty divorce many years ago. In fact, it was so nasty I sent my daughter away to boarding school to get her out of the middle of it."

Anne stop sniveling and whining like the bleeding heart neo-con you are.

Suck it up.... So you got divorced... Big deal...

If you hadn't been such a sucker and gotten married and had kids you wouldn't have had all that trouble in the first place.

Take some responsibility for your actions.

Stop being such a blame society conservative.

No one wants to here your sob story.

And we shore don't want to no fault divorce eliminated just cause you made some bad choices, and like most of the conservatives on this board are so selfish that you can't even keep your own marriages together.

Bytheocean: Have I asked myself WHAT?


"...if non existence would have been better?"


No, but after that stupid, inane question, I'm thinking that perhaps YOUR parents should have asked themselves that question about YOU!




Tallil2long
You haven't offended me. You have come across as a thinking individual.

To what does the name Tallil2long refer? What's a Tallil?


To Bytheocean
I am very, very sorry to hear about your painful divorce. I should have said that first thing, if my better sentiments hadn't been submerged by my debating urge.

I know I mouth a lot about what I think constitute the factors generally involved in divorce.

This is, perhaps, an appropriate moment for me to remember humility: I don't claim to know everything, though sometimes I speak as though I do!

In my experience, certain issues or errors most generally influence couples to divorce. I hope, though, that you will believe me when I say that I am not attempting to judge your own marriage and force it into that mold. Those things I describe are general factors which I often find involved in the failed marriages with which I *am* familiar. I have not the ego to think I could or should judge your case.

If I have inadvertantly given offense, I apologize.

Anne
"to realize, after the fact, that the divorce was, in fact, a good thing. Unless you have children and watch them struggle, you have no idea!"

So you did not give them the life that you wanted to give them.
Have you asked yourself and them if non existence would have been better? Like the movie "It's a Wonderful Life."

Ok
OK I forgot about the writing which is sitting in my safe deposit box. But you erred too. "where the man must give his wife the divorce decree in writing."
Did you mean to use the word "must"? The rules are still in the man's favor and he has to be convinced by the wife to give the Ok for the divorce and he usually gives it after getting money from the wife, or so my Israeli cousins tell me.


Mischief
you have just demolished all the pro-unlitaeral no fault arguments. Take a bow!

Bytheocean
" Judaism has always had a no fault divorce. It was skewed to the man. All he had to say was "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" publicly, at the same time as walking circles around the wife."

ROFLOL.

What are you trying to do here? Undermine your own credibility?

I can't think of another reason to attribute the ISLAMIC rule for divorce ("I divorce you" three times), to Judaism, where the man must give his wife the divorce decree in writing.

Astroboy108
"First, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS why or on what grounds a married couple decide to divorce. It's their life - NOT YOURS! "

"Their" -- plural -- "life" -- singular?

Hole in the logic right there. It's not their common life that either one has the right to decide for the other.

And that a person who voluntarily entered into a legal bond should find himself bound by it is not exactly the most surprising thing on the face of the earth.

Not to mention that it is also the children's lives. Altogether too often, it is their literal lives that are at stake. Go re-read the stats in the article and remember that it is the child's life, not the life of either parent.

SteveL
"But I'll bet if you compared only less religious couples who cohabit vs. less religious couples who marry quickly without cohabitation, the rate of divorce would be no higher, and likely lower."

And is there any reason to think this is anything but wishful thinking on your part?

Cohabitation is the testing-out of the partner, with the assumption that you can decide he's substandard. Just getting married will not change your frame of thought.

Ergum
"BUT. Having had close-up experience with the only state in the union (New York) that does NOT have no-fault divorce, I can tell you that it is no panacea."

Are there any panaceas?

The question is whether it is, on the whole, better.

Yes, there are horror stories about situations without no-fault. There are also horror stories about penicillin.

Bytheocean: That is NOT uncommon

to realize, after the fact, that the divorce was, in fact, a good thing. Unless you have children and watch them stuggle, you have no idea! So, I suggest that your "now, now, now" attitude be kept to yourself.

In fact, I remember asking my best friend, the next time she went to Lord & Taylor, to get two extra L&T bags, so when I ended up a "bag lady" that at least I'd have "matching bags."

But, not too many years later, I began to painfully struggle with the irony of how my divorce could actually be a "good thing" for me, while at the same time be so "painfully damaging" to my children.

You see, when there are children involved, no matter what, just as "Mother of 4" said above, they carry the scars through their entire lives.

I will share that, while I still struggle with the irony, it wasn’t until eight or ten years ago, when I saw a number of interviews with a pediatric surgeon who, when asked if he didn’t often ask “why” when he saw so many poor innocent children afflicted with such horrific problems, he said, “Yes. But years ago I finally figured out that it was okay to ask why as long as you don’t demand an answer.”








now now now
I found my divorce terribly painful like an amputation. However it was a good thing.
No children so don't worry about them.






Talil2long
Also, I believe it is corn that they genetically manipulated to kill insects on contact. Sounds good? It also kills butterflies, God's flowers, and bees on contact, since they are insects. Bees and butterflies fertilize our food supply.
Bees are being wiped out. They cannot figure out why. Bayer also makes a 3 in 1 systemic for roses so you can have beautiful roses. It also kills bees on contact including bees and butterflies.
But let's not worry about our food supply. Let's worry about global warming which can raise the water level 1 foot in 100 years according to the UN just as the water level has risen 1 foot in the past 100 years.





Uber: You obviously have NO idea what

you’re talking about… None! Zero! So sit down and SHUT UP!

First of all, Mother of 4 was NOT whining. What she was doing is describing exactly what she and EVERY child whose parents divorce have gone through… and hers was clearly one of the better scenarios.

There are some things in life that NO ONE can truly comprehend until they, themselves, experience it. I have no doubt, losing a child… of any age is one. Divorce is another.

I went through an ugly, nasty divorce many years ago. In fact, it was so nasty I sent my daughter away to boarding school to get her out of the middle of it.

Interesting that a number of years later a dear friend also went through a divorce… When she told me that she and her husband were divorcing, she started out apologizing to me! Why? She said that until her marriage of 28yrs. ended, she really had no idea of what I went through several years before; and the pain and destruction. As she said, “There are no words to describe it.”

If you had more than a pea-brain, and even a modicum of intellect and understanding, you’d know better than to post what you did.

You’re a disgrace and an embarrassment. So shut up until you know what you’re talking about…. And so far, you’ve pretty much demonstrated that you know nothing about anything.




Mother of 4: stop whining
Every action has a reaction.

To say that ... "As a child of divorce I can attest to the fact that no divorce, no matter how amicable, leaves the children unscathed."

Is to day nothing.

One can say... "As a child whose parents did not divorce I can attest to the fact that not divorcing, no matter how amicable, can leave the children unscathed."

I'm sorry you had a bad childhood. Now grow up.... Divorce is not the best option for everyone.... But it is best option for some and as such must be available.... To All...

After all what matters is not the "amicability" of the divorce but rather the "amicability" of the marriage.

What is best for the child is a loving family not a family at war with itself.


As a Child of Divorce, ...
As a child of divorce I can attest to the fact that no divorce, no matter how amicable, leaves the children unscathed.

My parents did everything possible to minimize the impact on us. They based our residence on the quality of the school system each resided in. They committed to never live more than a 1/2 hour apart for ease in visitation. They made financial sacrifices for our benefit. I was in college before I heard either of them speak an ill word about the other. And yet my sister and I were emotionally devastated.

I used to wake up trembling and unable to remember which house I was in until I opened my eyes to look. And I had a great deal of difficulty socially because the only way I could spend weekends near my friends was to refuse to visit the parent I wasn't living with at the time. Like Tallil2long's Michelle I entered my own marriage very cautiously and 100% determined to never put my own children through that horror.

My sister, who is younger, has never been able to form a stable relationship because her means of coping with the insecurity of being a child without a home whose world has been shattered by those who should have protected her is to refuse to ever trust someone enough to yield even the smallest portion of her "power" to another -- making the joined life which is required for a successful marriage completely impossible.

And yet, at the same time, she has been victimized by the men with whom she cohabited but not committed to because, not being bound by anything, they could freely leave and stick her with the bills and the responsibilities.


Tallil2long
Also agribusiness successfully fought the labeling of meat produced in this unnatural manner on the basis that it would be too hard to trace but the real reason was that they did not want the people to be able to express their preference for meat created with natural diversity.


It's about the kids...
Having read the article and perused through the postings, I am astonished at all the inferences made. Many "rabbit trails" can be seen. I think that the author was trying to raise an awareness of the child's future post-divorce, albeit in a manner that tends to stereotype and incite many groups.

Whereas I do not concur with his conclusion of "no parent gets the child", I do agree that divorce should be harder to attain, or scrutinized more intently. What we are currently experiencing from our "justice" system is injustice being levied upon both the children and any spouse that tried.

If divorce were considered a more serious matter, then perhaps the more appropriate parent would receive custody of the child, funds would be appropriated better, etc. I do believe that there should be consequence to the actions taken in marriage. Each person should be accountable... perhaps to a jury of peers?

To anyone that argues the embarassment of the old philosophy... I argue that truth should not be hidden away for any reason. We should be a society that encourages truth, less we fail in every endeavor.

Talli2
You and your Michelle sound just like me and my husband; I'm from the twice-divorced home, he is not. I remember the awful fights, the "distance" between my parents, the neglect of the man I knew as Dad (bio-dad I never knew till much later in life) and the adultery of my mother; I doubt either of them knew my siblings and I knew what was going on, or at least I did, being the oldest. He divorced her when I was about 13, presumably the result of that. All I could see was that he was never around (being a truck driver)and worse, he'd bought a farm (he'd been raised on one), moved us there, and left to go drive his truck while my city-raised mother had no idea what to do with 22 orcharded acres and a packing shed...

Lucky me. My husband committed himself heart and soul to me when we married, as did I to him. I've never been sorry, though it isn't a pink-cloud fantasy by any means. Like Michelle I've had to remind him in some not-so-tactful ways that he was being, well, blind. I've had to deal with my own stuff too; but I'm here to tell you that the images of the divorce in my childhood are still with me and still a motivation not to go down the road that led to it. Now we're going along pretty well and have counted 28 wedding anniversaries.

One does what one has to do; in our case some marriage therapy was the right thing to do at a particularly critical time; an impartial third party can be very helpful in negotiating through blind spots. No way would I say that divorce is never justified but a lot can be done to care for the marriage so it doesn't have to wind up there in the first place.

God bless you in what is obviously a very happy and companionable marriage!

Thank you
Yes it is happening and our government as usual is not protecting us. They are caving to the agribusiness that is giving them money.

Same with the labeling that will not tell us if the product is cloned or played with versus natural. People asked for labeling and the government refused.

As was said, vegetables and fruits that are getting other genes from other fruits and vegetables without labels could put people at risk who are allergic but don't know the "safe" fruit they are eating contains genes from a fruit to which they are allergic.
And if one has the answer "so have an epi pen on you" : an epi pen works for about 6 minutes. One needs to get to a hospital within that time frame.

In regards to the topic the writer was discussing, if you had asked me 20 to 30 years ago I never would have expected the churches and synagogues to cave on principal the way they have.



Second to Bytheocean
If this DOES become a growing trend, and reduces the genetic diversity among the food animal populations, it MUST be stopped.

All the potatoes in Ireland were effectively clones -- descendants of only a few originals. This low genetic diversity is the reason for the universal susceptability of the entire potato crop to the infamous Blight.
As I'm sure you already well know.
Yes, the matter certainly does bear inquiry.

To BytheOcean
I will look into it as opportunity allows. People may press for it if it benefits them personally, but I don't see how free market forces will allow the practice to prosper.

Talil2long
One would think it made more sense to let the critters do what they do but if you look into it you will find that what I described is what is happening re meat supply


Irrelevant question
Is 'lip service' a biblically-derived term? "This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me"

To KsReaganite
I disagree. While most people will pay *lip service* to the welfare of children, a very substantial number behave in ways that prove the hollowness of their statements regarding it.

The rest of it rings true!

Narrowing the argument
I don’t think divorce per se is the issue at hand here. The real issue is something very specific known as ‘unilateral no-fault divorce’ whereby one partner can end the marriage contract unilaterally and for no cause (and no, ‘irretrieveable breakdown’ or irreconcileable differences’ are not ‘cause’) reap rewards for doing so. It flies against the very precepts of fairness and justice as understood by all reasonable people except radical feminists, divorcees (or children thereof) who initiated such divorces, and the legal/social work community which makes tons of money off of such injustice. New York’s law, unique amongst the rest of country today, is the last surviving reminder that once upon a time we used to have laws that reflected the seriousness of marriage. Unilateral no-fault divorce is a 13 billion dollars a year industry….and it is little wonder that those who benefit from it will fight tooth and nail to preserve. And again no, most divorces are not ‘mutual’ but rather unilateral though eventually most are settled, as are most law suits, in a layer’s chambers rather than a judge’s. Whatever else we disagree on, most people with the exception of feminists, will agree that the welfare of children should be kept at the forefront of a divorce. And that means looking with greater scrutiny at the parent who wants to dissolve a child’s home because he/she wants to sleep with someone other than the other parent…such ‘other partner’ often being the likely future abuser of children.

correction
'by NOT implying that philosophical change had no import'

proofread, soldier!

To BytheOcean
If that was your intent, it would have been better served by implying that philosophical change had no import.

As for whether we'd best be concentrating on the next revolution -- revolutions tend to have similar characteristics. By better understanding the last one, we learn lessons to help prevent, cope with, or mitigate, the next.
Besides, the negative consequences of the last one might still be worth working to reduce.

As for the 'one meat animal' thesis -- won't happen as long as people like beef AND chicken AND turkey AND fish AND pork.
Realistically, the most cost-effective way of making more critters is not to have highly-paid specialists mix identical ones up in batches in expensive labs, requiring expensive incubation systems. Cheaper and simpler to just let the critters do what they've always done: get down to Bidness.

On statistics, and Michelle
My wife is the product of a twice-broken home.
Statistically, this means that Michelle was much more likely to go through divorce herself.
Nineteen years into our marriage (which began when we were both nineteen years old) that hasn't happened.
The question is, why not?

First, Michelle never pretended that the mistakes and misdeeds of her parents (of which the divorces were only the culmination)had had no negative effect on her and her brother. That conclusion called for action.

Regarding her mother's marriages, she rightly discerned that, while the divorces might have been reasonable under the awful circumstances, those circumstances themselves were the true root causes. Divorce doesn't happen in a vacuum. She observed the errors of her parent's actions, the trauma of their fights, the ineffectiveness of their coping strategies. She realized that those things, brought fully to fruition, virtually mandated a divorce... and have no place in a marriage that is intended to be successful.

Michelle chose me (out of several suitors) for the initial relationship investment based on her assessment that I would be unlikely to duplicate the miseeds of her fathers; and she herself resolved not to replicate the errors of her mother.

When we got married, she found means (pretty rough ones, since she'd never learned tact) to let me know when my ways were like the destructive ways she'd seen before. On my part, I usually *listened*, and in return demonstrated (on my better days) the strategies, never previously witnessed by her, that *could* work.
The result is that she learned good strategies and helped steer me away from the bad ones.

This mutual learning period commenced upon the end of the honeymoon stage, and tapered off a couple of years later once we were past the roughest points. Now we both generally do the right things by fond habit -- which gives us much more time to devote to the serious business of simply loving and enjoying each other.

Tallil2long
The point I was attempting to make is that first the scientific changes occurred, and the economic, and then belief ran to catch up, and then the institutions ran to catch up. I do not think it was the other way around. Most likely the woman who financed research into birth control was a radical but the population wasn't.
Shouldn't we be concentrating on discussing the next revolution, genes, and cloning, rather than the last one?
Personally I do not want to see the entire meat supply of our nation be limited to 1 animal that can be wiped out by a virus, yet economics of the food supply want it so they can patent it so they can make money and our government is caving in to them.




Second to garageman
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/512757/

I cannot possibly know the factors leading up to your own divorce. However, statistically you were far more likely to go through one than a person whose parents had not divorced.

I don't think any person just up and decides one day "You know, my parents got a divorce, so I think I will too". The factors involved are subconcious -- but nonetheless real.

To garageman
I submit that if you tried to obtain a divorce in 1947 on the grounds that 'We just don't love each other anymore', you would find that divorce has become much easier in the intervening decades.

Sheesh, doesn't *anyone* interest themselves in the past history and character of their own nation?

There's no such thing as "easy divorce."
I marvel at the ease by which culture-war religious conservatives instruct the rest of us about the alleged evils of "easy" divorce. As someone who is divorced myself, I can assure him and his "musclehead" minions that the decision to exit a marriage is the culmination of a long process of disengagement -- people don't just wake up one day and say, "I want to be divorced!" And as someone whose parents were divorced when I was 12, I will put it in writing: I never for an instant felt "devastated." "Fatherlessness" was probably the best thing that happened to me at the time.

It's time for moral buttinskis like McCullough to talk to some real people instead of projecting moral failure onto nice convenient caricature. It's true that parents can make bad marital choices after the divorce, but the divorce per se is not the issue.


Sensible Public Policy, Not Perfection
Human beings are fallible, imperfect creatures. Therefore, and I think we can all agree on this, there is no set of conceivable divorce laws that will work for everyone, all the time.

Marriage is a public act, not a private one. To get married, you have to get the permission from the State to do so. Therefore, both the laws of marriage and divorce are a public policy statement: A statement of the society at large, through their elected representatives, as to how society expects people to comport themselves in their marriages, and the dissolution of same.

Bad facts make bad law. There will always be the case of the mentally abused spouse that somehow slips through the cracks of a divorce regime that requires that fault or cause be shown.

But McCollough is on to something. It is right that as a society we say to married people with children that if you ask the State for a divorce, you should have a better reason than that "you aren't happy". Too bad. Society should demand that married people with children put the well being of their children before their own happiness. It's not like it is hard to get a Restraining Order if a spouse is abusive. In case you haven't been paying attention, all a spouse need do is tell a judge that they fear for their safety or physical well being (not their lives) and the courts will issue a TRO like a Pez Dispenser.

Society should draw the line against amorphous claims of "unhappiness" for divorce. THAT is in the true best interests of children.

To Bytheocean
There has not been a philosophical change? I wonder, in the 18th century how many American women were saying 'A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle' -- or how many would approve such a statement were it uttered.

The circumstances of our modern life need not cause the failure of so very many marriages. Many of our circumstances (the growing need for two incomes, for instance) actually *disfavor* singles. We are practically bombarded with studies that quantify, and news articles that dramatize, the very real problems for women and kids inherent in single motherhood, but the trend only increases. Want to say the cause is not philosophical?

birth control
You are all commenting as if there was a philosophical change. There was a scientific change in that birth control became available. There was an economic change in that people went from getting married at 21 to 31 or so in order to finish their educations which have gotten longer and longer and longer in this society. Combine those two together and you have changes in the society. The changes were introduced without any discussion by institutions. The institutions played catch up.

I just saw a report on TV that scientists are putting rabbit genes into trees. Where is the discussion as to whether this "mixing", which I would say goes contrary to Jewish law, is acceptable or not?






To theBaron
Having smelled chickens in their natural habitat (no, I don't mean industrial chicken houses) I must admit the possibility that Mr. McCullough meant *exactly* what he said.

But I don't really believe it. Proof read, people!

To renny
Well, okay. I don't agree with everything you've posted, but that's alright.

What I would like to ask is this: if feminism has tended toward the destruction of the family, should we also forget the millions of 'playboys' who are perfectly happy to avoid adult responsibility? Who eagerly take advantage of the 'out' they are offered?

Which came first: feminists who despise men, or men who act in despicable ways?

There is enough blame to go around that I would be hesitant to lay it all on the doorstep of any one bunch.

What is simply inexplicable to me is the way in which some feminist ideology *enables* (to use a trendy term) men to behave in despicable fashions. Encouraging women to engage in behaviors that enable men to enjoy them and dump them without remorse, responsibility or respect is, I would say, not helpful.

Underside of feminism
The fantastic growth of unmarried "single mothers" and divorced "single mothers" can be laid at the feet of the feminists who think the Murphy-Brown "family" is an ideal.

Then the general liberal ethos of all-sex, all-the-time envelops the "single mother" in constant pursuit of some bedmate who is prob. not fit to open doors or walk down steps.

Why should that person care about anyone's child?

Statistically, women will themselves into poverty and failure by 1) having a child outside marriage or 2) having a child outside marriage before graduating from high school or 2) getting divorced with children. Each is a BAD choice.

Jodi and Catholics:
Dear Jodi, as a practicing Catholic I can attest that the Catholic Church most definitely DOES recognize marriages outside the church - Jewish ones, Protestant ones, Buddhist ones, ones at the Elvis chapel in Las Vegas.

What the Church says is that FOR CATHOLICS, a marriage ceremony outside of the Church does not convey the sacrament. That doesn't make the marriage unlawful, or invalid, or illegal, or the children of that marriage illegitimate. These are all commonly help misunderstandings. And unlike the state's marriage power, the Catholic Church maintains that the sacrament can only be bestowed once while both spouses are alive. An annulment issued by a Catholic Marriage Tribunal, does not validate a state decree of divorce, but instead renders a decision that the sacrament was never present in the marriage because of one or both parties' incapacity AT THE TIME OF THE MARRIAGE. (Coming to hate each other later doesn't count.) Such incapacity might be reflected by extreme youth, or duress (pregnancy, other coercion) or deception (yes, it happens).

And none of the above applies to anyone outside of the Catholic faith. So please rest assured non-Catholics everywhere, if you are at all concerned or offended, that the Catholic Church takes your marriage every bit as seriously as you do, if not more so.

SiliconDoc:
Your "total hogwash" stats reflect a lack of understanding of what I've been talking about. I never claimed that it was harder to get a divorce in New York generally than in other states, nor did I say that there were fewer divorces in that state. (Sheer population would refute that).

You make a very common error, which is to confuse the number of divorces with the number of divorces where grounds are CONTESTED. Most divorces are mutual, and if the parties concede to grounds (adultery, cruel and inhuman treatment, abandonment, whatever), then the issue is never LITIGATED. I also said that when it IS contested, and thus must be litigated, New York's "cruel and inhuman treatment" standard is extremely difficult to meet.

Illinois, where I practiced, by comparison, does have a "mental cruelty" grounds, and even when one spouse contests it, all the accusing party has to prove is that the marriage has "irretrievably broken down" - easy as pie to allege and prove.

Go read the New York appellate cases if you don't believe me. There are plenty of them where the parties have said they "don't love each other anymore" or they can't stand each other, or the "marriage is dead." And the NY courts (some of them most reluctantly) nevertheless conclude that that is not enough under the statute.

The fact that there are so many divorces in New York nevertheless simply means that few divorcing couple contest (and thus litigate) the issue of grounds. And that's true everywhere.

So please don't claim "hogwash" when you don't know what you're talking about.

Lord Archaleon:
I'm sorry, but your post is hopelessly naive. First of all, screaming obscenities and other verbal abuse at someone is not against the law - you cannot get someone arrested for it. (Don't believe me? Try it.) My client already has an order of protection against her husband to keep him from entering the spare bedroom where she now sleeps (which he has violated, and they won't arrest you for that, either). Because he screams at her, verbally abuses her, has shoved, pushed and slapped her, she has filed complaints against him and tried - through the court system - to have him removed from the house. Their answer? No can do, unless he has demonstrated threat of serious bodily harm or death. So she's stuck there until the divorce - which her husband has dragged out for over a year now, during which time the harangue, harassment and abuse continues. She can't leave, because she has been a stay-at-home mom for 17 years, and doesn't have the income to support herself (although she is working now). Nor does she want to be away from their three teenaged daughters. And if she DOES leave, he'll slap her with an "abandonment" charge and sue for custody. Think she'll win? Would YOU take that chance? And can everyone AFFORD to fight it?

You can "believe" all you want about what the legal system will and won't do, but the reality is that it will NOT remove a verbally abusive spouse from the home, will NOT issue or enforce a protective order without prior SERIOUS violence, is ridiculously expensive (if you're represented, and God help you if you're not) and frequently doesn't even protect the spouses who are subject to physical violence - be they male or female. It is less a psychological problem of enduring abuse than it is an economic and legal problem of no alternatives except bad ones.

To MellorSJ
Thank you for your kind wishes, my friend. I am doing well, and the family had a good time at my folks' house (although Michelle left her cell phone in a gas station in Corsicana and had to spend an hour driving back for it!). Of course, I miss 'em like crazy but that's part of the job.

You are quite right about communication: it is well to put one anothers' needs first, but only with adequate communication can we be certain that we *understand* the others need... as opposed to constructing a well-intentioned but possibly erroneous image of the loved one's needs or desires. You wouldn't think such things occur, but they do.

Hope the holiday was a joy to you and yours. God bless.

-James


Christians and Marriage
By the Ocean:

I am a Christian, and I know of no Protestant teaching that would say a Jewish marriage is not a marriage. I do know that the Catholic church does not (or at least did not) recognize any marriage outside the Catholic church. Perhaps this is where the confusion came in for jdw?

I have read that happy marriages
usually have two spouses that "idealize" the other.

This means that they overlook their faults and exaggerate their good qualities.

I did not expect to have this be the cause of a happy marriage: denial. Where does positive thinking end and denial begin?

It is also interesting to me that when people have been married for a very long time, and grow old together, they seem to naturally start to idealize each other, where perhaps a decade before they were constantly nattering at each other. I have seen this phenomonon happen in enough marriages of elderly people, that I wonder if it is instinctive?

While I am one to tell the truth, and often bluntly, I have to say that positivity is a desirable quality, and used to be a hallmark of the American Character.

That is until the activist Left got in there and taught us to be a nation of whiny, demanding babies, who can't overlook the smallest slight.

It is this quality of idealistic positivity that made us a nation of patriots, and brought us peace and prosperity in our own quarter of the globe.

When Dennis Prager wrote his book on happiness, I dismissed it as trivial, but as the years go by, I see the value of committed contentment in one's personal life, and in one's effect on the world.

Tallil2long and Michelle
Congratulations! A good marriage is hard to find. And harder still to make work.

You make a great deal of sense regarding 'Me', but I would add that there needs to be a willingness to discuss the issues. Too often, fear of being misunderstood (or, perhaps worse, understood only too well), make discussion impossible. Once that starts, each person can retreat into their own world, talking, but not communicating.

I just finished a book written by a muslim living in the west (Waleed Aly). He describes his favorite cartoon: A man with a black 'talk cloud' with a white box inside, and a woman with a white talk cloud containing a black box. Since his book about miscommunication between islam and the west, it was most apt.

Hope you survived the holiday adequately without your loved one. And she too.

To Tinsldr2
I hear you. Michelle and I have had issues to work out, but neither of us ever considered divorce either desirable or even an option. Therefore I look at the attributes of our relationship and consider which appear to have been significant in our working things out. Mutually placing each others' needs ahead of our own seems to be the single largest factor.

Our respective upbringings have had a very great deal to do with our success: I was raised to consider marriage a lifelong matter; since divorce is not 'possible' (or rather, represents an inconceivable catastrophe), every effort needs to be made to amicably work things out. Michelle was raised in a twice-divorced household; she learned from that example that divorce is horrible and must be avoided at virtually all costs.
Quite a few people raised under Michelle's circumstances, of course, would have learned quite different (and far less positive) lessons!

What concerns me about the status of marriage in the future is that far too few people seem to be receiving good instruction and example from their parents. Success becomes very difficult when you hasn't been trained to use the proper tools and methods to achieve it.


"No-fault divorce"
In reading the article, I can't help wondering if Kevin knows any people who have gotten divorced. I am one and have interviewed lots of others. I have not found a case where divorce was experienced as "casual" or "easy". By the time the people *I* know filed for divorce, they felt that there was no alternative.

marriage and divorce
50% of the people who get Divorced are women so I blame them!!!

Ok just a bit of humor, to make the math challenged people wonder. My Eagles just lost to the Patriots and I need to smile and drink coffee.

I am very lucky in that I married the greatest woman in the world on June 12 1987 and never worry about Divorce.

On 'incompatibility'
I particularly love this excuse: "We're just incompatible".
Incompatibility is not a cause: it is a condition which HAS causes. What *specific* factors exist that result in a couple being incompatible?

Inability to agree on money? Disagreements on how the home is to be run? Disagreements on how each is to seek entertainment? Reluctance to give up dearly-held but deeply irritating habits? Refusal of one party to tell his/her mom to just butt out?

When it comes down to cases, I bet many or most of the factors involve too much 'Me' on somebody's part.

The #1 cause of divorce...
is too much 'Me' on the part of one or both spouses.

Too much 'Me' can take any number of forms: Rushing into marriage without suitable forethought, because "I want what I want, NOW". Making light of potential causes for conflict because "Oh, I can fix that" or "Oh, I can change her".
Taking offense uneccessarily: "How *dare* he say that about me! I don't care what he meant, it's how it sounded!"
Being unwilling to compromise: "No, I'm not giving an inch until she admits that she was *wrong* and I am *right*!"
Or, "I don't need to compromise: I'm right and she's gotta deal with it".

Or perhaps just the empty-headed inability or refusal to note that one is doing all the *taking* while one's spouse is doing all the *giving*.

The #1 cause of divorce.........
.....is MARRIAGE!!!!

Marriage is fun
This article seems draw an unsaid conclusion that marriage has already been disoluted through no-fault divorce.

He seems to want to give all the power to the courts to decide the best for the children. I do not like this hyper-liberal affinity for the courts in family relationships. Children, not even children of divorce, are not the property of the state.

To MellorSJ2
I agree: Mr. McCullough need not have introduced homosexuality into this discussion, and indeed would have been better served not to. For one thing, introducing the mere word provides people with an opportunity to latch onto a distraction and ignore or obfuscate the main argument.

To serge
"The whole point of no fault divorce is that the parting should be amicable: a couple approach the Court and say "it just isn't working, we want a divorce." "

That's the whole point, though. WHY is it not working? If nobody has done anything wrong (if nobody is at fault), then the most likely case is that both are guilty of simply not caring enough. Or alternatively, that the couple entered marriage without good judgement, proper consideration and forethought.
In either case *both* are at fault, rather than neither being at fault.


To MellorSJ2
He can't write one column without talking a jab a radical gay. And, of course to him a radical gay/homosexual is anyone who says that he/she is homosexual.

Younger
Thank you Younger. I knew the person was making it up.


You know the answer, swampfox
"Can someone explain to me why he had to bring into this opinion piece "radical gays". It appears to me that this mess has all to do with heterosexual men and women, who can't seem to remain faithful to their marriage oaths."

Because Kev-baby can't leave the gays alone.

We may speculate on the causes of his obsession, but it just feeds him.

McCullough
Can someone explain to me why he had to bring into this opinion piece "radical gays". It appears to me that this mess has all to do with heterosexual men and women, who can't seem to remain faithful to their marriage oaths.

Christian view of marriage
I was raised in a Christian family, and in all of my almost seventy-two years, I had never heard of the idea that Christians would consider a Jewish marriage not to be a marriage. Indeed, the basic idea of a Christian marriage comes from the Hebrew Scripture--"Therefore a young man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife."

Bytheocean, I support you.

The Grass is Always Greener Dept.
"some people on this list think it is a good idea to continue to be married to someone who no longer wants to be married to one."

Yes.

But it's not just people on this forum, it's the divorced people themselves.

I don't remember the details, nor the source, but I do remember being pleasantly surprised about eight months ago at a study of people who'd been divorced and people who had started divorce proceedings but decided to stick it out. Those who divorced rated themselves unhappier ten years after the divorce than before, while those who stayed together were happier a decade later than during the "troubles".

The differences between them were not trivial, but several times greater. As I said, I don't recall the details, but I think it was three to five times greater happiness among those who kept their promises.

Women were the most affected by divorce. They rated themselves far less happy than their stoic sisters. But the men didn't fare well, either. As we have read here, women initiate the vast majority of divorces, and one would assume they'd benefit most from their choice. Didn't work out that-a-way.

Schools benefit the system. That's
why there's a system. One teacher said,
"School would be a great place to work
if we could just get rid of the
children."

Le
==
Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org

hmm
Apparently people are not reading the beginning of posts and reading last ones and figuring they know everything. Ergum was a divorce attorney and what he stated was based on his experience, not TV, but kid s he met in cases he handled.

Apparently
Apparently some people on this list think it is a good idea to continue to be married to someone who no longer wants to be married to one.


The State, our Enemy
The state forces itself into every marriage by setting itself up as the arbiter of what a marriage is and as the only power that can dissolve it.

Like it or not, a marriage is a legal contract, and legally nothing more than a contract. You became a partner to a contract when you said, "I do." But you did not know the terms of the contract, and you had no say-so in what those terms were.

Well written contracts include every foreseeable situation and the consequences of either party's defaulting in those situations. They also define that conditions and outcomes where the contract is to be terminated, who can instigate such a termination, and how the assets will be divided on termination.

An enlightened society would allow marriage partners to write their own contracts, adopt one they like, hire a lawyer or priest to write one for them — somehow create the contract that will dominate their lives.

Ours is not an enlightened society.

The only contract has three parties:

the man,
the woman,
and the state;

and the state is the one that dictates all of the conditions of the contract, and arrogates unto itself the power to change the terms at its will, and refuses to define the conditions under which it will allow the other two parties to terminate the contract.

The only role the state should have in dissolving marriages is to ensure the conditions of termination are met. But today a judge can annul a prenuptial agreement (a marriage contract) because the state is the senior partner in every marriage, whether the other two want it involved or not.

As in every other arena it sticks its ugly nose, the state mucks up this one.

Like it or not, the state causes the majority of this kind of problem by interfering in the first place.

Schools harm children as much as divorce.
Save yours from both threats.

Le
==
Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org

One must have balance in life
and the Left always site the most extreme examples imaginable to make their point.

In the Leftie Bizarro World, either we throw all convention out the window, or women will be slaves that are kept barefoot and pregnant, doing the housework in 4" CFM shoes and a Merry Widow under their Burka. They will regularly sport black eyes and be miserable with no freedom to do what they want.

But really, back in the day when the 1950s caveman used to holler "no wife of mine is going to work!," what did she do all day? Once the kiddies are off to school and the vaccuuming was done, the whole day was hers until late afternoon!

In contrast, nowdays women work just as hard as their husbands at work, and then go home to do house work. They give over the childrearing to some Hispanic housekeeper who can't speak English, and wind up with kids she doesn't know well, who are so desperate for her love that they call her all day long, and then don't leave home until they are 40!

And Bytheoclean
that is exactly the point: if I don't want a divorce, me not getting one doesn't work because while marriage takes two consents, thanks to your unilateral no-fault laws, divorce takes only one. You have just proved my point of the bizarreness of unilateral no-fault.

Bytheoclean
I didn't ask for advice nor did I receive any. Question is, why are you offering me unsolicited advice which doesn't contribute to the debate? Let's face the fact that unilateral no-fault divorce makes a mockery of a very fundamental precept of the free enterprise system: the enforcement of mutually entered contracts. Marriage in America (in 49 of the states, not NY) is the only 'contract' that can be broken without reason by one party while aggrieved party is given no compensation. What's more telling is that often (given that 70 % of marriages are broken by women and most on a unilateral no fault basis), the party breaking the contract gets rewarded for the same with the house, children, child-support (i.e. new boyfriend support) and alimony (another form of new boyfriend support). This is justice turned on its head. A divorce court is the closest thing to a Middle Eastern sharia court in the US; the only difference is which gender gets the shaft. And yes, I have lived in the Middle East so I do know what I am talking about.

Lord jdw
Ergum was a divorce attorney.

jdw: Just in case you have the assumption that all Jews are Leftist destroyers of society, please note that conservative talk radio attempting to save the country is largely made up of Jews, such as Prager, Medved, Savage, Dr Laura, Rabbi Lapin, as well as Horowitz trying to save the campuses from the Left wing agenda.




Ergum you're wrong...
Ergum made a lengthy post about how no-fault divorce protects people being harassed from becoming imprisoned by the relationship. If you abandon the idea that harassment laws work, then you're only going to bend the rest of the system to fill the void that demands justice.

Listen to me very carefully. If you believe your harasser can get away with it, then you have already given up on getting him prosecuted. That's a dangerous mistake. You cannot afford to believe the system is anything but behind you 150%. Yes, I know it's hard to get these losers jailed, but it's not impossible.

What's impossible is when some loser makes you believe~ that he has more rights than you, causing you to accept the situation. Trust me, if you feel hopeless, your aggressor will only~ get more aggressive. Take the kids and leave. File an incident report. And when anyone doubts you, which they will, insist your rights be respected.

And so what if the government steps in and helps the aggressor? Like that won't tick off all~ of America if you go to the media. Conservatives will stick up for you. Libertarians will stick up for you. Liberals will exploit an opportunity to pretend to be your friend by sticking up for you. You win across the whole table.

If you weren't~ so right, then your adversary wouldn't resort to trying to demoralize you into submission. That's all the power he has, and he knows it. Behold, Mr. Passive Aggressive in all his bed-wetting glory.

All of these attacks on the family
have been presented to us over a long period of time, spoon-fed to us in little bite-sized pieces, by the unrelenting activist Left, whose real motivation is to deconstruct American Culture and replace it, brick by brick with the tennants of Marxism.

These activists are so obsessed and committed to their cause, they don't care what they destroy: the school system, the Entertainment Industry, and the lives of countless millions of young people who have been brainwashed to give up the centuries old dream of having a home and a family that endures beyond their lifetime.

For example, the Lefties will descend upon a film company, gradually take over all postions of power by uniting together, squeezing out all desenting voices, and then making only films with a decidedly Left-wing message.

They don't care if the company goes in the tank, as long as they have their vehicle for desciminating their propaganda.

I have often said that it reminds me of the guy who stole a bulldozer for the purpose of destroying his ex-wife's house. He didn't care that he also destroyed the bulldozer, because his only goal was to ruin his ex-wife's life.

"the continual drumbeat...
...that you are nothing without a husband and even less without a child".

Amen to that, Audi. But more. I think that it's more like "nothing without a MATE" (with or without benefit of marriage).

I read a Kathleen Parker column just today in which one particular girl described "hooking up" (not of her generation, don't know if it's accurate) as having oral sex with a guy, then deciding if you like him. Sheesh! All the so-called advancements via the women's movement and we have generation of female sex-slaves, unable to come to a value decision about a guy BEFORE she's serviced him, if at all. Then you've got all these celeb mags showing gorgeous color glossy pics of celebrity couples with maybe a single line caption, as if this picture IS the argument to be made for "find yourself a hunky guy and be happy with it, and set about making babies with him".

These girls are attaching themselves to other people before they even have a chance to learn a real sense of themselves, and frankly, that doesn't speak well for the guys who feed on that. It seems they need to get hold of the girl before she gets too smart, and too picky.

grammar
That is Jesus and I have something in common.

jdw
If I being the product of my parents' Jewish marriage am a child out of wedlock because only a Christian wedding is valid, then you have just called your Christ a 2 letter word which ends with a syllable that rhymes with card, and I do not think he would approve of you nor your reasoning. (Townhall blocks the use of the word.)
Afterall, Jesus and me have something in common.


No Fault Divorce
If people are going to lose their children if they file for a no-fault divorce, it makes more sense to cohabitiate, have children, and prevent the state from having a say in the separation of the couple by never participating in marriage in the first place. No marriage=no divorce=no seizure of the children or loss of custody.

Bye-bye marriage.

jdw uber
jdw:
"learn to give verbal abuse back".

Oh there's a solution. Instead of having one verbally abusive person in a relationship, have two. Oh there's a solution of which professionals have not thought to create a home, in which to raise happy children.


Uber: very good.



Fascinating
"A contract is a contract is a contract. And the state's only business is to enforce it."

Sounds like summary, irreducible absolutism to me.

What happens when people decide they don't like the definition of contracts, and want to have contracts be things OTHER than what you conceive of them to be? Like, only enforceable if both parties feel like it?

In fact, why should the state have anything to do with the enforcement of contracts? What business does the state have enjoining anyone to make good on his promises? Where does the state get off telling any of us what it means to make a promise? How is it the state's business to define making a commitment, or think up punishments for failing to keep one?

I feel totally oppressed and disrespected by the existing definition of a contract. How dare you impose your morality on me.

MellorSJ2: layers
Why is it that a society, which is proud of being based on the rule of law, hates layers?

This to me makes no sense. Yes is understand that layers bend the law…. Etc…. defend the indefensible…. But seriously.

Even the most unethical layer in a society based on the rule of law, is better than an unethical tyrant based on the rule of strong.

Yet conservatism, with exceptions, praises man’s will over the law…. And thus we live in an age… in which habitués cuprous is deemed to be anachronistic for some classifications of defendant.

The clock of western progress has been tuned back not to the 1950’s but to the 1679.

Layers in my estimation are the guardians of our nation. Yes even more so than solders fighting in far off lands.

Cause it is layers who protect our liberties and the liberties of solders abroad, so that when they come home, they don’t find their freedoms and their nation’s treatures ransacked by unscrupulous politicians.



KsReaganite
If you don't want nor need a divorce I suggest you don't get one.


jdw
What part of love and honor do you not get?

"By CHRISTIAN standards, you were never married," is a ridiculous statement.
Any Christians out there want to support me?

The point I was making was that the writer was taking his personal religious convictions and asking for a change of the secular law to mirror his own. He was not talking in the article about changing the rules of marriage in his local church. He had an attitude of "l'etat c'est moi" seen in the king of France.










Finally
someone has the guts to point out America's greatest basic tragedy and root cause for the myriad of abuses children face: unilateral no fault divorce. The only people who are for it are lawyers, judges who depend on lawyers to become judges, radical feminists, social workers, and men/women who want to cheat.

Nice Try Bytheocean
"Do you belong to some taliban sect here in the US? So I take it you support the 200 lashes on the woman who was ganged raped in Saudi Arabia, do you? How long have you hated Jews jdw?"

I didn't know there were any taliban sects here in the U.S. Whether I support the 200 lashes the woman who was gang-raped got FOR VIOLATING SAUDI LAW at her trial, is irrelevant. Certainly we punish people for violating gag orders in this country, just to not that degree. You have two choices; you can let the Saudis have their laws according to their custom, or you can conquer them and impose the U.S. Constitution on the captured territory. Which do you wish?

How long have I hated Jews? I dunno, you brought up your ethnicity, not I. I merely pointed out, that by CHRISTIAN standards, you were never married, so the AUTHOR'S religious values should be no concern for you, as the question is one of STATUTE, secular law.

I will not allow you to put me needlessly on the defensive in order for you to win an argument you should lose. I'm not an anti-Semite, and an accurate reading of my statement should not have suggested such. But even if I were.... SO WHAT? It would be my right to dislike Jews, Christians, Scientologists, atheists, Armenians, pinocle players, whatever. It has nothing to do with the validity of my statement..

"My husband it turned out was verbally abusive and I would say committed fraud on more than 1 major issue."
Fraud is a crime in the U.S. Criminal conviction I believe is reason to file for divorce. Your husband was verbally abusive; maybe you were married to a female. Grow a thicker skin, learn to give verbal abuse back... whatever which part of "...for better or worse" don't you get?
Oh, silly me. Honor. Commitment. Giving one's word and keeping it. How archaic of me.

Ergum
And what you forgot to point out is that more divorce lawyers get shot by their clients or their spouses than any other kind of attorney including criminal attorneys.


SILLY SYLLOGISMS

.....Inkling_Revival ...Lilly uses the same false logic in a lot of her rants ...

.....It is interesting to note that Historically some of the most successful marriages were those that were arranged by the parents and the newly weds did not meet until the marriage ...

.....They were successful because the bride and groom were duty bound to honor their families and it was the husbands duty to please his wife and the wifes duty to please her husband ...

.....No Fault divorce is a product of our it's all about me society where what is paramount is one's own selfish desires and pleasure ...this is also the attitude of the sluttish irresponsible women whose choose abortion because it would be inconvient to deliver their babies .....COLOSSUS

Nice work, Uber, who writes:
"Marriage an unconstitutional usurpation of religious authority by the state. The state’s role if it must have any, should be to act as an arbiter of contracts. What no one is willing to tackle either on the left or right is why marriage should be a special contract in the eyes of the state."

Precisely!

"Let the state satisfy itself with incorporations of business. And let families incorporate their ventures threw these laws. Let them go into the business of Family with both eyes open, not blinded by passions and religious ignorance. Let the family be open to as many willing partners as are willing and let each be armed lawyers p front, who explain their liabilities and rights before the law."

Not sure about all those lawyers...

"For too long religions has masqueraded as the protector of the family. In truth it is the families greatest foe. For it creates, and perpetuates mythological social norms which prepare all individuals for failure. It then pounces on that failure and pretends to offer a fix. Yet that fix only enslaves and further complicates the situation."

This is precisely why religions do it. It enhances their grip of the sheeple.

"What is needed is a new way forward. A way predicated of rational self-interest. On market answers. Let the humans design functional families as their see fit. The market place of ideas and actions will create far better solutions than religion can offer."

A contract is a contract is a contract. And the state's only business is to enforce it.

Let the churches peddle their myths without any state sanction whatsoever. They can also pay taxes on their businesses.

Reader John
Also there would be a rush to be the plaintiff as being the only way to infer that one was the offended party.


in reply...
AF Retiree: No, unfortunately, the conduct I described does not constitute "cruel and inhuman treatment" under New York law. I've read the cases.

SteveL: I did not have a financial interest in people divorcing - I took most of my cases pro bono, and charged for other work (corporate, IP, etc.) where people could legitimately afford an attorney.

Nor are most attorneys out there chomping at the bit to do this work. If you haven't practiced law, you don't know that most lawyers and judges HATE divorce work. The hours stink (guess who they call in the middle of the night when the spouse is outside the door, drunk and screaming?), the pay is lousy, your clients don't listen to you, and you're expected to be their shrink. (I recommended my clients actually seek counseling, and I dropped clients who used their children as weapons - which many, MANY do.) And of course, no matter what happens in the end (with rare exceptions), everyone is unhappy in the end. Oh yeah - that's surely the way those of us in the legal profession want to spend our days!

The adversarial legal system in the United States is a terrible system for resolving domestic disputes, and everyone in it knows it, which is many states now have mandatory mediation, etc.

But the bottom line is still that what most people are discussing here is personal morality. And the legal system is a lousy way to enforce morality except in the most extreme cases.

problem of marriage
It is not divorce, which is the problem it is marriage itself.

Marriage an unconstitutional usurpation of religious authority by the state. The state’s role if it must have any, should be to act as an arbiter of contracts. What no one is willing to tackle either on the left or right is why marriage should be a special contract in the eyes of the state. Let the state satisfy itself with incorporations of business. And let families incorporate their ventures threw these laws. Let them go into the business of Family with both eyes open, not blinded by passions and religious ignorance. Let the family be open to as many willing partners as are willing and let each be armed lawyers p front, who explain their liabilities and rights before the law.

For too long religions has masqueraded as the protector of the family. In truth it is the families greatest foe. For it creates, and perpetuates mythological social norms which prepare all individuals for failure. It then pounces on that failure and pretends to offer a fix. Yet that fix only enslaves and further complicates the situation.

What is needed is a new way forward. A way predicated of rational self-interest. On market answers. Let the humans design functional families as their see fit. The market place of ideas and actions will create far better solutions than religion can offer.

For this we need to abandon the out mode contractual systems which have plagued us for years and allow the market systems which have served us so well to take their place.

It’s time that people faith have faith in people, whether than the self-serving polemics of two housed years of prejudice scribbling.

no-fault
“The problem in large measure is that plaintiffs in "No-Fault" cases are living in such denial and total and complete selfishness that they don't truly care about the welfare of their children - not truly.”

Of course “no-fault,” divorce does not cause people to be completely selfish and to not care for the welfare of their children. That attribute is unchanged by no fault diverse.

In truth no fault is actually a social good not a social wrong, since it acts as a mechanism by which those unfit or unwilling to raise children may leave….

At the same time, working in unity with no-fault laws, child support laws enact punitive measures which hold the individual with out child rearing responsibilities, responsible for financial support even if or specifically because they are incapable or have no desire to raise their children.




I am still roiling
To jdw:
The facts are
I was married.
My husband it turned out was verbally abusive and I would say committed fraud on more than 1 major issue. We got divorced under the law of the state that we lived in which had no fault law. I support the law of the place that I lived and live in. I also got a religious divorce. As stated, we had no children (his unilateral decision). And according to jdw I'm a "left-winger whose kind is responsible for the destruction of my society."

To jdw:
Do you belong to some taliban sect here in the US? So I take it you support the 200 lashes on the woman who was ganged raped in Saudi Arabia, do you? How long have you hated Jews jdw?








There are no legal solutoins
That sums it up; no fault in our present culture is the best.

All the rest of about taking custody away etc is pure baloney from those who dont think


Literally, nonsense
The column begins "As a general rule, plaintiffs who file for "no-fault" divorce should be found unfit to gain custody of their children." I'm shocked that there were more than 50 replies before Souixz alluded to the problem with this proposition: in states with no fault divorce, it's the only kind of divorce available, so McCullough's rule means that the plaintiff in no fault states generally will lose custody.
In a state with no fault, it doesn't matter if your husband brings home a city bus full of working girls, works them one by one on the living room floor, and then beats his wife on the way back out. The only divorce she can file for is "no fault." The judge will have zero interest in the adulterous serial copulation unless it was done in front of the kids (in which case he might entertain a professional's opinion that seeing such things was bad on the kids and is relevant to the custody issue).
No fault is a problem; I don't deny that. But this solution is a non-starter.

A very silly syllogism
Somebody named "Bytheocean" illustrates for us why it's important for us all to study logic -- to weed out the incredibly silly statements, like hers (his?), that pose as logic.

Here's ocean's syllogism:

People under stress break down in predictable ways (list of stress-related ailments). Bad marriages cause stress. Therefore bad marriages cause these ailments.

Ocean's list of stress-related ailments includes chronic diseases, violence, alcoholism, and insanity.

Here's the problem:

EVERYBODY experiences stress. Stress is an ordinary part of life. So, while it's not strictly false to say "stress results in these ailments," it simply doesn't follow that the stress of a bad marriage can be linked to those ailments.

On the other hand, stress also results in

1) greater strength of character;
2) greater patience;
3) more compassion for other peoples' problems;
4) motivation to change.

So we could also conclude that bad marriages result in good character.

Thus we arrive at Socrates' advice to his pupils: "By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will become happy, and if you get a bad one, you will become a philosopher."

BYTHEOCEAN

.....And it is so much better for the children right? ...

.....Stress is a part of the human condition married or not ...learn to deal with it ...don't dump your problems on the children ...grow up ...


....A Jewish wife gives her husband two shirts for his birthday, a blue one and a green one.
....A few days later the husband wears the blue shirt ...
..."So!", The wife exclaims in an accusatory tone, "You don't like the green shirt?" .....COLOSSUS

Its the radical gays fault.
Of course we all know that it is the fault of the radical gays and their secret agenda to undermine the sacred institution of marriage. It can all be traced to a group of radical gay attorneys that came up with the idea about 35 years ago at Charlie's Bar in Chicago.

LILLY

.....Q. Why is it better to be a teacher than a fire hydrant? ...

.....A. Dogs won't pee on you. ...hahaha .....COLOSSUS

.....If you are wondering why I tell you these stupid jokes? ...

...A. They make about as much sense as your posts with the added side benefit of a little humor .....COLOSSUS

and
People under stress break down in predictable ways
1. they get sick and have heart attacks, or develop chronic diseases depending on the weakness in their physiology, such as Chrohn's disease.
2. they get violent
3. they become alcoholic
4. they go insane.

Living in a marriage gone bad is stress. Therefore allowing divorce lowers disease, lowers the incidence of chronic disease, lowers alcoholism, lowers the rate of insanity, and most of all, it lowers the murder rate.



jdw
I am no left winger. Judaism has always had a no fault divorce. It was skewed to the man. All he had to say was "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" publicly, at the same time as walking circles around the wife. However it was liberal for its time.

As usual people try to put the rules of THEIR religion into the laws of the land and assert them on others as if their religion had extra special insight, or as one person put it: "having been raised with the rules of my religion, I reviewed the options in society and it is just a coincidence that I came to a conclusion that my ideas and the ideas of the religion I was raised happened to coincide perfectly."
As to your other assertion that according to Christians Jews are not married, I find that absurd. Perhaps in some Christian sects we do not end up in the same heaven, but I have never met a Christian who has called me a child born out of wedlock because I was born to Jews who were married to each other. It is so absurd that I wonder if you are not playing a game of acting like some demented Christian in order to hurt Christianity.



JUST CHECK THE PRISONS

.....Children are the ones who pay the highest price and suffer the most from divorce ...

.....Up to 90% of inmates in our prisons come from broken or single parent homes .....COLOSSUS

LILLY

...Q. What's the definition of divorce? ...

...A. The future tense of marriage ...hahaha


....Man to a friend, "My wife and I were happily married for eight months."
...Friend, "That's good."
...Man, "Not really, we were married for fifteen years." ...hahahaha .....COLOSSUS

It's obviously the gays
Come on people, it IS pretty HILARIOUS how Kevin throws in that little jab about how we must prevent gays from ruining the SACRED institution of marriage right before he goes on to argue that this "sacred" institution is currently nothing more than a meaningless charade? If you don't find that funny then your sense of humor is defective and you need a new one. Anyone who believes there is any merit to the concept that homosexual activists are threatening the sanctity of a pristine institution should read this... If you still believe it's a valid point, call a mental institution and check yourself in.

Shoeless Bytheocean
"I am Jewish. Divorce has been around for 3,000 years. How dare this writer try to make me live according to the rules of his religion?
Are Jewish families known for bad families due to the availability of divorce? No.
This writer should have some humility and have some self assessment as to how big of a twit he is. I would not trust his wisdom and insight to tie my shoe."

Hey, genius... he's railing against the modern philsophy of NO-FAULT divorce. Read what he said.

No-fault divorce is a legal statute, not a religious scripture. As you're not a Christian, then by HIS religious rules, you've never been married and need not worry about divorce.

According to MY religious rules (agnosticism), you're a left-winger whose kind is responsible for the destruction of my society.


another person's views
I knew a woman who was a wife and a mother and she stated that her view was that the party in the marriage who was playing around should get the children because the one who was playing around was the one who needed to learn responsibility.

How do you like that for letting other people decide your life?






no fault divorce...
so............. if I live in a state with the no fault divorce laws ............. you are saying I am stuck???? I did not ask for no fault laws but had to go through a divorce from an abusive husband in Michigan during the first year that no fault was in effect. I had hardly and right to protection because no one knew how the whole thing would work.It is not the fault of the parties involved if the state is a no fault state. This was a silly and irrelevant article. have you walked in the shoes?????

Keep a notepad
by the idiot box whenever you're watching TV. Keep count of how many times you see commercials or programs where the father/husband is made to look like a fool by, is lectured by, or is in some way defeated by his wife or children. Now compare the counter examples.

Men are the bedrock upon which the family is anchored. We are the ones who must engage intruders. We are the ones who, ultimately, are responsible for ensuring the integrity of the household, be it having the house itself repaired/acquired, or providing the means for such to be taken care of. We are the eye of the storm, the calm, CONFIDENT anchor to which females and children naturally turn in times of trauma, stress and danger. And for men, this is a natural role.

A male can't be that anchor if he's the resident fool or the village idiot. A man must dominate his home, even if he can't dominate anywhere else. And a real man doesn't have to resort to violence to do so.


for loco
loco writes: "Cohabitors have a higher rate of divorce according to studies I have read about in my professional magazines"

That's a statistical fallacy.

It's not the cohabitation that brings about more divorce. It's the fact that couples who choose cohabit tend to be less religious, less interested in traditional moral strictures, to begin with. (Devoutly religious couples won't ever choose to cohabit.) And it's traditional religious morality that has been shown to be a big determiner of how long a marriage will last.

But I'll bet if you compared only less religious couples who cohabit vs. less religious couples who marry quickly without cohabitation, the rate of divorce would be no higher, and likely lower.

Fault Divorce
I think part of the blame for the divorce rate is the propoganda machine, (aka, chaos engine, aka idiot box, aka television). Anyone else see the commercial where a husband brings home a couple of cell phones, the wife points out that they should have gotten a free trip?... and when the husband says they didn't mention a trip, she doesn't question *their* honest, but his. Then threatens him, by saying that if someone was holding the trip out for a trip with his friends instead of a getaway with his wife, he would be sleeping in the garage for a month. And of course nobody but me sees what is inherently wrong with this scenario. Some may even laugh.

1) What kind of marriage is it when she distrusts him more than the store who sold him the phones?
2) What kind of marriage is it where an alleged man has to tip-toe around his wife to do what he wants to do?
3) What kind of marriage is it when a wife can even think that A) a threat for him to sleep in the garage would be effective and B) would be implementable? I'd be sleeping happily in my bed, she could sleep wherever she wanted.

There is one word that has been removed from the wedding vows, apparently (at least on the idiot box) which desperately needs to be restored, once males grow up and start acting like men: that word is "obey".

(to be continued)


Loyalty
The underlying problem behind divorce is disloyalty.

Too few people have any sense of loyalty.

Furthermore
Furthermore, this guy, as usual, is trying to press the rules of his religion on others. What is he? Catholic, where divorce is discouraged? I am Jewish. Divorce has been around for 3,000 years. How dare this writer try to make me live according to the rules of his religion?
Are Jewish families known for bad families due to the availability of divorce? No.
This writer should have some humility and have some self assessment as to how big of a twit he is. I would not trust his wisdom and insight to tie my shoe.







a couple of cards short of a deck
I find that when people have wrong assumptions, after that, nothing else matters. The writer's assumption, about what no fault divorce is, is wrong. therefore he has led himself down a path of stupidity.

He thinks no fault divorce means there was no fault and people are divorcing from a whim. WRONG. People have plenty of reasons. The courts determined that they didn't want to sit and listen to them. the courts also determined that they did not want people to have to prove the assertions with witnesses which had brought about a whole cottage industry of hiring 3rd parties and a film crew to create adultery that could be taken to court, regardless of why the couple was actually divorcing.
Call it privacy. Look at the couple who got a divorce and sealed court records only to have a journalist break into the records, I think by paying a bribe, splashing the private reasons all over the newspapers that made the man resign from running in an election, which is how Obama ended up getting the position from which he is now running to represent the democratic party in its drive for the presidency.
This writer not only is stupid but a hypocrite as well. If he wants details of married life given to the public why doesn't he reveal details of his marriage if he has one and also have his wife give details from her viewpoint, and his kids too.
It is not as if judges are "wise". I have certainly seen judges who get their positions from contacts not from having wisdom.
I found myself in a verbally abusive relationship. I am glad that I did not have to convince a judge. We did not have kids nor property so we just parted ways.



McCullough
presents a real problem--
Then sums it up with an asinine (non)solution.

Does anybody even use
the old-fashioned wedding vows anymore?

"...for better or for worse..." doesn't seem to sink in with people anymore.

Of course, honor isn't what it once was. I was watching "Alvarez Kelly" yesterday. A Confederate office shot one of his own men as he was about to shoot a Mexican national whom they'd kidnapped to steal a herd of cattle from the Union. At that point I turned to anybody who'd listen and said, "You know why he shot his own man, his friend? Because he'd given his word (not to kill Kelly.)"

In a society that takes principles so lightly; where God is almost a metaphor; no-fault everything becomes the norm. We each become the god of our own little world, and the subject of worship is the pursuit of our own pleasures.

What does it say about our society when the program "Cheaters" rarely deals with the infidelity of married couples? When the hosts are just as outraged over infidelity of people merely living together, even homosexuals, as they are over adulterers?

AudiR10, part of the problem is that too many women see having children as taking a break from their careers rather than as a CHANGE of careers.

Lastly, the boyfriend syndrome is hardly surprising. On one of those nature shows, they showed a pride of lions where the male was defeated and driven off. The victorious male chased down, killed, and ate the children of the loser. This is the "natural" world without law, honor, or morals. Think of it as evolution in action.

SteveL
Statistics don't support your preferance for living together. Cohabitation does not make for a good choice for marriage. Cohabitors have a higher rate of divorce according to studies I have read about in my professional magazines,. Perhaps there is something about those who choose to "try it out first" that makes for failure.

As for those who continue to cohabit without the benefit of marriage, such an arrangement does not make for a happier situation than marriage. Same problems. Just like friendship with benefits(sex), one often seems to care more and is hurt by the situation.

Consider in Sweden where there is a very high rate of cohabitation. When the children start coming, they marry.

Ergum
So...

After great monies paid to this lawyer, this conservative judge just says "no" because my husband didn't want it; but when I asked him to stay home and talk with me, his response was alwawys, what can you tell me that I don't already know?

How do you, in front of a crowd, tell the judge that you often woke up with him on top of you? And then finally, the bus driver who was next to him in the hospital testified that he verbally abused me again and again. The judge finally granted the divorce. My husband very Roman Catholic went for an annulment with the church. After interviewing both of us, the granted me the annulment. That was a very long time ago...

It's your viewpoint --
Ergum writes: no fault continued...
(continued from earlier post)

"I am involved with a case in New York where the wife has been subjected to the worst kind of daily harassment, verbal abuse and constant humiliation in front of the children."

If I may, and I am a total layman (woman??) about the Law (Civil or Canon) It's that ABUSE??? And isn't abuse a valid grounds for Divorce and Annulment? In my limited life experiences it has.

No the "I'm bored" and "marriage is work" and "he's too busy" and "she has gotten old" are lame excuses at best, and lies at worst. I know of VERY FEW people that when there was no grounds (the four "As" abuse, abandonment, adultery or addiction)

There comes a time "once they had crossed the Rubicon" over "the bridge of no return" that they realize "Hey! It wasn't that bad after all."

But it's way too late to change it.

When the entire society (from ethnics to manufacturing and politics) is if it isn't working - don't "fix or repair it; go out and get something NEW. It's hard to "buck the system," even for your marriage.

And I really feel once you allow the word and idea of DIVORCE to enter your conversations, then you DO have a fight to save the life of your marriage. Not all illnesses are terminal, and not all chronic conditions debilitating.

what?!
How does Kevin McCullogh smear gay couples in his article on no fault divorce?!
Gay folks didn't invent it, support it or cause it.
However, the folly of supporting mixed straight and gay marriage has contributed in part to the divorce rate.
But again, that's in part the heterosexuals deciding they know what gay people can and should do for their lives.
Gay people can't get married to each other in a common and widespread way.
Yet, the folks who write for TH make such leaps of breathtaking illogic to blame the gay folks for divorce and family trends among heterosexual couples.
When are heteros going to take responsibility for what they mess up?
Anyone who has experienced the pain of divorce and custody problems should be hard pressed to blame gay people for it on any level.
How absolutely pathetic that McC had to go there to shoot off the opening salvo.


Solution

The solution is a three strike provision upon Family Law Judges making incompetent decisions. Why three? First time is an incident (possibly unforeseeable), second time is a coincidence, third time is a pattern. By the third time when your decision results in a child being abused, clearly that judge is incompetent about the needs and safety of children.

Having gone through divorce myself, I know the clever means in which judges so narrowly rule in order to justify the self imposed blinders they use to advance the agenda. When judges are forced to account for their decisions, they will stop the narrow rulings and go with the big picture since now they have a vested interest in the outcome. Up to this point, judges have no vested interest in the welfare of children, literally zero.

The Judges
On another level one also needs to acknowledge the power to create this NO fault lies with the Family Law Judge. Were it not for the Family Law Judge choosing the female as the default parent to be the custodian, half of all child abuse would be prevented. So there are two crucial players in child abuse, not just single mothers, but also Family Law judges who sided with this privileged group. Let's do the math, 90% of all custody decisions of Family Law Judges are to the female. Single mothers account for over 65% of all child abuse in all it's forms. It wasn't just the female who engaged in child abuse, it was the tacit enablement by Family Law Judges who placed children in that position in defiance of the known statistics. They knew the potential consequences of their judicial decisions! This is gross negligence or depraved indifference.

You want to change the equation of what causes child abuse you must deal with all the variables involved. Family Law Judges stand at the nexus of child abuse. Deal with the greatest contributing factor to child abuse and you drastically reduce child abuse. Family Law Judges repeatedly make the same bad decisions in total disregard of the consequences to children, here is a small group of people who cause untold misery for literally 100,000 children a year! (half of the 200,000/yr)

Deal with the problem
I agree with your assessment however, you like many focusing upon the results have not touched upon the greater point, the hidden agenda. The point of no-fault is to strip away consequences from decisions. In doing so, women are given default custody conforming to the falsehood of Plato's Republic. http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/natural_law_and_chi ld_abuse.html Excellent article by Ed Kaitz.

The point of No fault is to give women the power to shape society in their image, the feminist image. Without the male influence of daily parenting as with a nuclear family, there is no balance or rather counter-balance against a one sided view of life. This is no different than what the MSM does by not reporting all the facts and reporting only those facts that support their POV.


DIVORCE LAWS SKEWED TOWARD WOMEN


.....In a recent divorce the Judge ruled that the man had to pay alimony to his ex even though she had been convicted of beating one of their two sons to death ...

.....With judges like this out there ...there is no way I would get married today without an iron clad pre-nupital agreement that said: "The party filing for divorce agrees to forfeit all custodial rights of the child(ren), all community property rights and all support or alimony payments" .....COLOSSUS

Ergum
Dear Ergum,

I will agree with you that making two people who loathe each other stay together is a huge mistake. When I sought a divorce citing irreconcilable differences, the judge at first said no. Do you hear me "NO"!" My husband, who finished college at the Holy Cross and went on to finish graduate school, who was supposed to ccommute to graduate school, then decided to move to graduate school, while I was working three jobs to keep him going, came home once a month to visit. When he finished, he came home and spent most of his nights out with equally educated friends, because I could not converse on his level. He would come home in the early morning hours and wake me up for...

Well, I know it sounds ungrateful of me, after all he stayed with me even after having his graduate degree, while I worked, paid the rent, cooked, cleaned, saved money with my jobs, and entertained his colleagues, who, seemingly did not find me as offensive in conversation that he did, and after he had an accident and spent some weeks in the hospital where he would yell and scream at me, I became concernred that I was not goiing to get any happier, found a lawyer, and pursued a divorce. Continued...

Wilson54: Not to worry. NOBODY gets




lilly's posts.








Easy divorce vs. easy marriage
Lilly and Ergum have put their finger on an important point:

It's not that we have made divorce to easy to obtain. It's that we make marriage to easy to obtain.

I've seen young people date for a few months, have a lightning romance (which is little more than an infatuation), and then decide to "tie the knot." Sometimes it works out but too often it doesn't. You really can't get to know someone from a few months of dating, movies, restaurants, and an occasional kiss.

Unlike social conservatives, I'm not horrified by the concept of cohabitation prior to marriage. I can tell you from personal experience that only when you live with a person for a while, do you find out if you want to spend the rest of your entire life living with that person.

That's when you find out what she looks like (and smells like) in the morning with her makeup off. What it's like to live with her four cats. And whether she considers you as good a lover as her previous sexual partners.

Marriage isn't for everybody, and it's not to be entered into just because you have suddenly become attracted to someone for a few months. Those marriages deserve to be dissolved anyway.

Stop spinning.

Kevin is right... and MOST painfully so.

And the real tragedy... always with the kids.

Then we have ergum, our resident lawyer, with his vested interest. And then others, with their guilt, with their ideology or with their own personal motives.

Truly sad.

This question has been asked by many, "Do we as parents care enough about our kids?"

Like with most questions, the answer lies somewhere in the pudding.

For example, do we have the kind of public school system that reflects how much we care for our kids?

As everyone knows... regrettably, not.




Judith Wallerstein is a psychologist

and researcher who has devoted over 25 years to the study of the long-term effects on children of divorce. Her work is thoughtful, professional, and disturbing.

She followed a number of children of various ages going through divorce to their adulthood… Pretty much, even those divorces “under the best of circumstances” proved to be very hurtful and detrimental.

With the exception of abuse and alcoholism, divorce should be very difficult to obtain, especially considering that the divorce rate among those who have already been through one divorce is even higher than the national average.

And, McCullough is absolutely correct. Not only should those filing for no-fault divorce not get the same custody consideration, those who would be the ‘fault’ should not get the same custody consideration.

Any parent who would willingly put his or her “own happiness” ahead of his/her children in either too selfish or narcissistic to have much say in the upbringing of the children.

Parental Pressure
I see many bad marriages that could be avoided if the parents and/or other relatives and friends of the potential groom or bride would stop putting undue pressure to marry on them just to avoid the stigma of confirmed bachelorhood, being an old maid or other reasons. Let them marry if and when they are ready. The same applies to childbearing. I aim this at the potential grandparents. If your child and spouse bless you with grandchildren great. But life does not owe you this and it is unfair and selfish to badger your children to give you grandkids just so you can feel good about yourself. We are putting too much pressure on people these days and wonder why the divorce rate is so high.

As a social worker
I dealt with a lot of divorced families in my over forty years in the field. The author is so right about the dangers to children. For one example, I saw situations of the live- in boyfriend and so often I was uncomfortable for teen age girls who were coming into their sexuality with an unrelated male in the house. Not good!! Now, I am personally dealing with it with my 13 year old granddaughter and I am very anxious.)

I saw children confused by coming and going with joint custody not feeling like either house was home.

I dealt with so many parents who couldn't end the fighting after the divorce.

I dealt with too many women who wanted the freedom of divorce and then couldn't handle it when it wasn't all fun. The result was often very bitter and angry women even though they were the ones who wanted out.

I dealt with too many ex-spouses who couldn't handle it when the other became involved with someone else.

I dealt with too many blended families, families taking more work and adjustment than any of them could have imagined.

I dealt with too many divorced who ended up marrying the same kind of partner they had divorced. That is called "repetition compulsion.)

In the past, when divorces were not so easy to get, people were compeled to stay in marriages. Many somehow got through the bad periods, raised their children and grew old together. (I am not advocating for staying in marriage where alcoholism, drug use, or abuse is taking place.)It seems to me, adults today do not have the internal resources to hang in. They want a quick fix. They want fun. They don't like the responsibilities. Maybe, divorces shouldn't be so easy to get.

Once again, Konop is just posting

his nonsense anywhere he can... regardless of the topic.



Many years ago, while trying to

survive my divorce, an attorney shared that he had been part of writing the “no fault” legislation in PA. He said the goal was to minimize dragging children through custody battles.

However, several years after the fact, he said that it was the BIGGEST MISTAKE THEY COULD HAVE EVER MADE!



Void Because of Transgender Candidate?
A guy is suing because he lost a race to a transgender candidate! This will be on THE DAILY SHOW!

FOX- Two unsuccessful city council candidates in Riverdale say a fellow candidate committed fraud when she ran as a woman.

Georgia Fuller and Stanley Harris — who lost bids for council seats — filed petitions in Clayton County Superior Court last week asking the judge to stop the upcoming runoff election. The lawsuit alleges that incumbent Michelle Bruce — who identifies herself as transgendered and goes by Michelle Mickey Bruce — misled voters by identifying herself as a female during the Nov. 6 election.

The suit, which identifies her as “Michael Bruce,” asks a judge to rule the November election results invalid and order another general election.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/void-because-of-tr ansgender-candidate




Gays and Abortion?
Do you think Dr Watson is right a parent should be able to abort a child based on a gene that determines sexuality? And if you are pro choice how would you stop this?

W-FROM DR. WATSON

“If you could find the gene which determines sexuality and a woman decides she doesn’t want a homosexual child, well, let her”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/gays-and-abortion




lilly at 9:42
I didn't intend to get into a long personal debate with you but I couldn't let your 9:42 post go by unchallenged either. Yes just being able to biologically produce children does not make you an expert. And as ludicrous as it seems I am sure the examples of custody you cite have occurred. But what is your solution? Would you have government micromanage our marriages and families because of the failures of some? Perhaps you would. I have read many of your posts on different topics and a common thread of yours seems to be excessive reliance on goverment because you seem to believe most average people are too stupid to manage life without government help. This also makes it easier for the government to force its philosophies on the rest of us and limit our freedoms. I have a better opinion of most people's judgement than you.

Khan
The best interests of the children, in a situation where there is neither abuse (physical or emotional/mental), addiction, nor adultery, is for their parents to act like adults and stay together, even if it means sacrificing their personal happiness.

Not being 'happy' is such a cop out, sorry. There have been plenty of times in my 23 years with my husband that I've been unhappy, pretty darn miserable, in fact, but I made a promise. That means something to me, so I stuck it out through the rough times and always, the misery subsided and I found myself more in love with my husband than ever. And when I was in those unhappy periods, I learned, for the sake of my children's happiness, to behave with love towards their father. Soon enough, the pretended behavior became the reality.

People with minor children who divorce for any reason other than the 'three A's' prove only that they value their own happiness more than their children's happiness and well-being. Sorry if that sounds harsh - I spent a decade teaching middle school and saw what easy divorce and serial live-in boyfriends does to kids. I'm with McCullough on this one.

Divorce hurts children and it hurts
many adults - whether they want to recognize it or not. My child and I were abandoned because my husband "needed to find himself" - what he has found is mounting debt. The line "I am not abndoning my child, I am abandoning you" -is a canard. An adult who walks out on a marriage has walked out on the spouse and the child. The child suffers for ever.

lilly at 9:30
No one is saying that the results will always be good in the four examples you cite. But I believe they will be better more often than not. Staying married will more often than not provide a happy stable home for children. I will grant you part of #2. Just owning a gun does not make you an expert marksman. Training is needed. But I assume you would prefer only police and military have guns. I disagree. Many crimes have been deterred by civilians with guns. No political, economic or social system is perfect because we humans are imperfect. And please don't exaggerate sarcastically. No one I know believes that a free unrestrained global market will solve all problems. But I believe that the capitalistic system has and will in the long run bring more prosperity to more people than any other. I will also grant you part of #4. Going to church does not necessarily make you moral and ethical the rest of the time. Hypocrisy does occur. However it can help make better people of the ones who do go if the people attending will get out of the experience the right results. You only get out of something what you put into it.

Lilly
Please don't pretend to know what I know or don't know, you have no inkling of who I am or what I've seen, much less what my children have been subjected to by “well intentioned” systems.

You have to love the simple-minded optimism of the liberal mentality..... They're smarter than all the rest of us and need to be put in charge for our own good.

Please keep your village the hell away from my family.

Politics, divorce and $$$
Marriage was once a lifetime contract, and had many purposes but men had virtually all the power -- and some men abused that power. As societies 'evolved', many sought advantage for themselves and there was a shift of power when advantage seekers got organized, but still these power seekers did not find ways to PREVENT the abuse of power, so as power shifted, so did abuse of power.

Once there had to be strong evidence in order to shift power, but then 'victim classes' began to emerge and abound until we have the chaos we find today, not only with marriage, but also in all walks of life. The mere possibility that the 'accused' did something to ‘offend’ is sufficient to sway judge’s to reward the accuser.

'No fault' and 'irreconcilable differences' complaints rewarded women and found 'fault' with men so well that there should have been no doubt that divorce would become 'fashionable'. Awards of property, alimony, children and the bonus of tax-free child support and often government 'assistance' are just too enticing, if someone else is paying the bill. ‘Shacking up’ instead of marriage often produces tax advantages along with other 'assistance' to the point that some 'single mothers' get tax 'refunds' amounting to thousands of dollars -- without having paid single penny of income tax.

Even in ‘no-fault’ cases, the accuser often spices up and fortifies their position with false allegations of all various abuses – with little fear of being charged with perjury. There is seldom a second look to see if the accuser was really at fault and that the 'irreconcilable differences' were expectations of fulfillment of unreasonable demands. ‘No fault’ has resulted in all sorts of rewards for spoiled brats who use lawyers and courts instead of ‘throwing fits’ to get their way.

The result is almost always the same when politicians ‘solve’ problems and take away personal responsibility from the screaming brat.

To Is there any way out?
If you are suggesting that parents always know what's best for their children then you haven't known many couples getting divorced. Take split custody as an example. Parents (abetted by some really stupid attorneys and judges) have made such arrangements as the following: child spends alternate months with each divorced parent. Nothing can be taken from one home to another, not clothes, not a doll, not a favorite toy, not a book. Child attends two different schools and two different houses of worship, perhaps of very different denominations or even totally different religions (eg Jewish and Baptist). Child may not see friends from Home Situation # 1 when in Home Situation # 2. Child has two different pediatricians. When in one home, child is not allowed to speak of the absent parent or the other home or of "my best friend at my other house". Please don't attack the picture I've drawn as some silly imaginings because it is based, quite literally, on situations I have been called to work with. And you cannot even begin to plumb, in your nightmares, what such an arrangement does to the child. All arranged, of course, by two people who are supposed to "know best" because they once performed the brief biological act that made them, perhaps unwillingly, parents.

No Win Situation
No one wins in a divorce. No fault or not. What I have noticed more and more these days is that behavior that was mostly limited to men is happening more and more with women these days. You know you've arrived when your selfishness catches up with that of the opposite sex. In our church not too long ago we had a woman who out of the blue decided she didn't want to be married anymore. She needed to "find herself". So after 15 years of marriage and two female children aged 13 and 10 she just up and left. She told some other ladies she felt "restless". So flush what seemed a good marriage and a good parenting situation down the drain due to selfishness. The irony is that adultery was involved. She had been seeing another man for about 6 months prior to leaving her family. Will she get criticizied as much for this as a man would in the same circumstances? I doubt it. Not politically correct.

To sam allen
Re "Stable families are good for [everybody]". Sure they are, and I couldn't agree more heartily. But how do you know that the family now facing no-fault divorce was a stable one?

Imagine Joe and Susie, married for fifteen years. Nobody has committed adultery. Nobody has beaten anyone up. But every hour on the hour for fifteen years Joe has called Susie stupid, mocked her and belittled her in front of the children, refused to "allow" her to take a job, given her insufficient money to run the house, and refused to "allow" her family to visit although his often does so, and when they do they ALL gang up on Susie. Joe treats his wife like a servant, only with his treatment any servant would quit. Now the kids have learned to join Joe in his treatment of their mother (and you can bet they will carry this behavior into their own marriages). Then one day, a miracle occurs and Susie decides she has had enough. According to McCullough's plan, Susie should now be deprived of her children as punishment for having wanted to end this vile marriage.

You have to admire the simple optimism of conservatives. 1) All people who stay married are providing a happy, stable home for the children. 2) Anyone carrying a gun is a crack shot of military sniper competence who, with a single bullet, will be able to stop a criminal assault. 3) An unrestrained free global market solves all social, economic, and political problems. 4) Going to church at least once a week guarantees ethical behavior the rest of the week.

TownHall editors fail again
McCullough wrote:

"Yet here is the fowl smelling stench of the truth behind "no fault" divorce."

I don't think that he meant that it smells like chicken that past its prime.

Or maybe he did. The idea of no-fault divorce is, to me, just as rank as a piece of turkey that's been left out on the counter for a couple of days.

Thank you, educational establishment! The proofreader or editor probably had no idea, no matter how well-meaning he may be.

Hillary delenda est.

No Fault = Ca$h Cow
...it's become a MASSIVE industry that makes an obscene amount of money. End of story.

Judges, Lawyers, GALS, Psychiatrists, Child Support Enforcement, Police..... the list is endless......and for the past 13 years, very much against my will, I've donated hugely to their financial well-being.

As for "the best interests of the children", puuuulease. The government is suddenly so wise as to know what's best for our children. I'm certain the old guard of the USSR would agree. Whenever I hear someone use that phrase, it's usually an indication that I'm about to have to pay a ridiculous amount to someone that has nothing to do with my children's lives improving.

The issue stems from taking what was a religious ceremony (marriage) that was valued and respected in and of itself, and turning it into a government institution.

Take the money out of the equation and this problem will start to go away.

Regardless, nice article, Mr. McCullough, thanks for stepping up.

No Fault = Ca$h Cow
...it's become a MASSIVE industry that makes an obscene amount of money. End of story.

Judges, Lawyers, GALS, Psychiatrists, Child Support Enforcement, Police..... the list is endless......and for the past 13 years, very much against my will, I've donated hugely to their financial well-being.

As for "the best interests of the children", puuuulease. The government is suddenly so wise as to know what's best for our children. I'm certain the old guard of the USSR would agree. Whenever I hear someone use that phrase, it's usually an indication that I'm about to have to pay a ridiculous amount to someone that has nothing to do with my children's lives improving.

The issue stems from taking what was a religious ceremony (marriage) that was valued and respected in and of itself, and turning it into a government institution.

Take the money out of the equation and this problem will start to go away.

Regardless, nice article, Mr. McCullough, thanks for stepping up.

Never Happen
Re "They were responsible enough for form a legal union": No, many times they weren't responsible at all. But I can see a large technicolor picture in my mind of what would happen if the state imposed some sort of control on who was responsible enough to marry. Conservatives and libertarians would go nuts. In most jurisdictions it's harder to get permission to be a manicurist than to get married.

Having worked in human services for some years, I can readily point out that people who handle divorce badly are usually the same people who handled marriage badly. Irresponsibility and stupidity don't start on the day somebody talks to a divorce lawyer.

What's the object of this dumb article? That society should go back to the days we can see in old movies when anybody wanting a divorce could arrange, for money, a put-up job of fake infidelity complete with detective taking pictures? What does that solve?

The good news (Ergum)
Ergum, after a long description of an abusive situation, wrote:

"She pursued the divorce anyway, and (at my urging), hired a private investigator, who discovered that her husband was having an affair."

The good news, Ergum, is that men who behave like that SoB was behaving, almost always commit adultery. It's part of the syndrome.

The bad news is in situations where the woman is demented or abusively controlling. Adultery is seldom part of the picture in situations where the woman is the abuser.

Post hoc, ergo prompter hoc
I've used this phrase before, but I'll repeat myself for those who aren't familiar.

The phrase "post hoc, ergo prompter hoc" describes one of the common logical fallacies addressed in Logic 101. It's Latin for "it happened after, therefor it was caused by." The error it describes is the error of assuming that because B happened after A, that B was caused by A.

I share Mr. McCullough's concern about children of divorce, but that doesn't make his argument correct. You can't just assume that the abuse and neglect that occur in post-divorce situations are caused by the divorce, simply because they come after it. It's logically possible that some or all of the problems would still occur if the parents stayed married. More research is needed.

Having said that, I also have to say that I think it's entirely likely that abuse by a step-parent is far more likely than abuse by a natural parent. That's a thesis that makes sense, and should be studied further.

I say all this as a man who divorced his wife. I still believe I did the right thing; and I believe that choosing to pursue it as a no-fault divorce was far, far better for the kids than attempting to prove that their mother was abusing them, which would have forced them to testify in court against one or both of their parents.

Divorce is a disaster, and should be very difficult to obtain. Nobody comes out of a divorce unscarred. It should only be considered as the last measure, after every reasonable attempt to do otherwise has been tried. But I'm here to testify, the abuse my kids suffered was not the result of the divorce, but rather, was ameliorated by the divorce. Mine may be the minority case, but that case does exist.

no fault, continued
NY's divorce laws leave the spouse who does not want the divorce with a disproportionate amount of control. Women lived under laws like these for decades in this country. With no way out and no way to support themselves if they left, women were forced to live in marriages like prisons.

(The next argument McCullough will make is that women should not be employable outside the home, because that would force them to stay and "work out" the problems in the marriage.)

People negotiate from a position of power. It is the threat of the marriage actually breaking down that will prompt some people to seek counseling, etc. Laws that make it impossible to divorce except for adultery or serious bodily harm only give an otherwise badly behaving spouse more leverage to behave badly with no consequences.

I would argue that the divorce rate is so high because women have changed and men have not. Women face many of the same problems in marriage that they always have; the difference is that now they can leave.

And McCullough's observation that neither parent should get custody of the children in a no-fault divorce is asinine. Fortunately or unfortunately, children BOND emotionally with both parents. This is why divorce is so catastrophic for them. Taking BOTH parents away from them doesn't solve the problem.

Here's the bottom line: people who want to change others' behavior with the law often fail to realize that the law DOESN'T change people's feelings, and only changes behavior at the margins. This battle must be fought in other arenas - with schools, churches, in forums of public opinion. When two people hate each other, forcing them to stay married just creates a forum for manipulation, abuse, violence and loathing. The key is keeping them from coming to hate each other in the first place. And the law has little place in that.

no fault continued...
(continued from earlier post)

I am involved with a case in New York where the wife has been subjected to the worst kind of daily harassment, verbal abuse and constant humiliation in front of the children. ("You're insane, you're crazy, you're a complete failure as a mother,") to the point where she moved into a guest bedroom. This has gone on for a long time, and she finally decided that she did not want to live with it anymore. Upon filing for divorce, she discovered that her husband's conduct (even the occasional pushes, shoves and slaps) were not enough under NY law. Her husband knew it, too, and took great glee in haranguing her about that daily ("You'll never get away from me, you're crazy, the courts won't give you a divorce, why don't you just leave - the children don't want you here, I don't want you here...") Of course, if she left, then he could sue for abandonment and take their three daughters (whom she raised as a stay-at-home mom for 17 years, giving up a lucrative career as a salesperson).

She pursued the divorce anyway, and (at my urging), hired a private investigator, who discovered that her husband was having an affair.

Well, that changed things. But she should not have to choose between living in that hell for the rest of her life and giving up her daughters ...
(one more post, and that's it, I promise)

it's not so simple, unfortunately
As a former divorce attorney, I agree that divorce should be more difficult to get. I also have proclaimed for years that the "mommy's boyfriend" scenario was responsible for a disproportionate amount of violence against children, and that even children who survive a divorce are more often the worse for it (physical ans substance abuse are generally exceptions).

In fact, I have argued that the United States' system is really crueller than that of countries allowing polygamy; at least in those cultures a man cannot take a second wife unless he can afford to support BOTH of them, and FIRST wife always has higher social status. Here we allow the first wife to be tossed aside, and the first family is often scrabbling for the same assets that Daddy now wants to give to Family #2. Or #3. Or whatever.

BUT. Having had close-up experience with the only state in the union (New York) that does NOT have no-fault divorce, I can tell you that it is no panacea. One must prove grounds in New York, and absent adultery (and you need damn good proof, like photos in flagrante delicto), the standards are "cruel and inhuman treatment," and judges are loathe to find it. What this means is that unless one spouse is PHYSICALLY battered, you cannot get a divorce for "cruel and inhuman treatment" in New York... (to be continued)

dead child = financial return
"libs" have no problem with butchering babies in the womb (Nazis promote abortion).

"Libs" have no problem with butchering babies outside the womb (communists frequently just dumped new-borns in trash cans and frequently aren't punished for murdering this act).

"Libs" only concern with new-borns is the option to use "children" to as an excuse raise taxes to be enhance the wages of the "libs" running the educational systems - using the educational systems to pomote anti-American social-fascism (communism/Nazism).

Kevin is completely correct regarding the safety of babies/children in no-fault divorces as in the majority of time, neither parent is concerned with the child - only the money the child may bring in ("death by murder" can be an effective means to "fatten the pocket" of the "parent" (who retained the child) due to life insurance).

Let's trash the whole thing, then
While I can see the value of the arguments that reasonably consider no fault = no custody, the result of that would be more children living in foster homes, and we know that foster homes are not in the best interest of the children. So no custody is a poor alternative.

While it seems that shared custody does have it's problems and hazards, I would be willing to bet that in general it works better for the children than being ripped away from both the parents. My son is the product of a divorce, but he was such a priority in both our lives, such a gift to us both, I don't think he could ever have felt he would have been deleted out of either of our lives. He is 24 now and takes care of his sick father, thinks the world of my new, 15 years husband, who he know will continue to help him should any other problems arise. While I had reasons for divorce, I did not extoll on them in front of my son, who probably instinctively knew, anyway. I truly do not believe in no fault divorce. Maybe they don't want to talk about it, maybe it hasn't risen to their conciousness, but even if they say only that the love is gone, you can bet there is a reason. Happy people do not divorce. With no fault they don't have to be mad at each other over it. And what could be better for the child?

missed target
There are many facets of our too high divorce rate, but "no fault" is not one of them. To focus on what is merely a technical aspect of the legal process is to ignore the multiple root causes - and we all have identified many of those.

Life is hard...
...then you die.

Family values
Kudos to McCullough! It takes some serious cojones to write a column like this while ignoring a Republican presidential ballot full of serial polygomists. Maybe we'll be able to look to his endorsed candidate, Fred Thompson, to do something about the rampant divorce rates in the country!

And the children?
Children aren't stupid. The parents, in the recommended way, tell them together about the divorce. "But Mommy and Daddy still love you very much, and always will." And the children, not being stupid, think, "Mommy and Daddy once loved each other very much, too, and now they don't. So why should I think that they'll always love me?" The more so if the divorce is "nobody's fault" - "Mommy and Daddy stopped loving each other for no reason, so for no reason they may stop loving me."

Like What EVER, Maaaaan
Generation Whine lives with its Mommy until age 30 these days, so marriage is rare among that group in the first place. The generation before them, that generation that believes It Is All About Sex (even to the point of destroying one of the mainstream Christian denominations in their blind worship of the wee-wee), considers kids as a blunt intstrument or an unwanted byproduct depending on circumstances.

Likely that generation is lost, and there is not much we can do about their kids at this point. But the generation they reared, having seen what their parents wrought, seems to be catching onto the idea that stability is more important than where you stick your sex organs, and that I think may solve the problem.

Meanwhile, if we could stop the everlasting demand that everyone have children whether they want them or not -- the continual drumbeat that you are nothing withou