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Friday, August 10, 2007
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Uncommon criminals
by Jonah Goldberg
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Bank robbers rarely use suicide bombers. Forgers don't declare war on capitalism, democracy and modernity. Kidnappers rarely behead their victims without asking for a ransom. And when they do ask for ransoms, only rarely do they demand infidels submit to the will of Allah instead of asking for unmarked bills.

These incandescently obvious observations illuminate, in a small way, the resplendent stupidity of the notion that we should treat members of al-Qaida like run-of-the-mill criminals.

Al-Qaida's business plan is to make money and kill people in order to impose a global caliphate of Islamic rule. The Mafia's business plan is to make money in order to ... make money. Murder is, as Tony Soprano might say, the cost of doing business. Murder for al-Qaida is the business (and if you die in the process, you get to spend eternity at an Islamic Bada-Bing Club).

Of course, al-Qaida's aims are also political. Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, one of the founders of the jihadist movement that became al-Qaida, put it this way (I'm quoting from Lawrence Wright's definitive history, "The Looming Tower"): "We shall continue the Jihad no matter how long the way, until the last breath and the last beat of the pulse - or until we see the Islamic state established." And remember, Azzam was humble in his aspiration. He wasn't after the global caliphate sought by many Islamists. He merely wanted the entire Middle East, the former southern republics of the Soviet Union, Bosnia, the Philippines, Kashmir, central Asia, Somalia, Eritrea and Spain.

Whether you call them terrorists, Mujahideen or a radical faction of Up With People, the simple fact is that what commonly goes by the label "Islamic terrorism" is not a merely a criminal enterprise. The profit motive didn't bring down the World Trade Center.

I know this is obvious to many. But it clearly isn't obvious to everyone.

For the nearly six years since 9/11, conservatives have complained that liberals see the war on terror as a law enforcement problem, not a military or strategic one. Liberals often respond by calling this a straw-man argument employed to make Democrats seem weak on national defense.

And yet, every time you look away for a second, leading liberals and Democrats play to type. During a June hearing of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. Jerry Nadler, whose district includes ground zero, argued that members of al-Qaida were no different than any other criminals. When a witness objected that this would mean "if we had captured Mohamed Atta on September 10th, we would have had no choice but to treat him as a criminal defendant," Nadler responded, "That's exactly right."

This week, retired Gen. Wesley Clark and UCLA law professor Kal Raustiala penned what might be the least persuasive op-ed of the new millennium in The New York Times. Clark and Raustiala argue that we shouldn't treat members of al-Qaida as enemy combatants because such a designation is too high a compliment. "Labeling its members as combatants elevates its cause and gives al-Qaida an undeserved status," they argue. Therefore, they conclude, "the more appropriate designation for terrorists is not Œunlawful combatant' but the one long used by the United States: criminal."

They do not address the fact that under our system of law, "criminal" is the most advantageous designation a terrorist can get. It comes with all sorts of rights and rules terrorists can exploit: Miranda, speedy trials, the right to see classified evidence, the benefit of a reasonable doubt, the right to remain silent, etc.

We did not designate al-Qaida "enemy combatants" to elevate their status but to lower it. Under current treaty obligations, if we viewed al-Qaida as actual soldiers, they would be entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions even though they reject those conventions themselves. And if we treated them like criminals under American law, we'd have to launch "CSI: Kabul," collecting evidence for every "arrest." Clark and Raustilia say al-Qaida terrorists are more like pirates. But last I checked, Blackbeard wasn't interested in imposing a worldwide theocracy, and his henchmen weren't keen on blowing themselves up to achieve it.

If treating terrorists like any other criminals is such a good idea, why don't they recommend such an enlightened approach to Israel? After all, when Hezbollah rains down rockets on your cities, the sagacious response is to issue an arrest warrant and convene a grand jury.

We obviously need rules for dealing with people we capture, which is precisely what the Bush administration has been trying to establish. But saying that we should treat terrorists like criminals is to argue for doing less than nothing.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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they're enemy combatants
I'm a liberal who has no problem identifying the fighters of al-Qaeda as what they are: "enemy combatants." They are not "criminals." We need to recognize that other organizatioins besides traditional nation-states can have organized forces, with identifiable war aims, capable of taking action against their chosen enemy--us.

The world has changed, and today an organization that cuts across national boundaries, that operates globally, that can coordinate what anyone with half a brain can see is military action, might as well be regarded as being at war with us. So that makes their people "enemy combatants."

It is ridiculous for Americans, whether or not they agree with the war, to evade calling thse people something that at least designates what they do.

Something old...
I'm sure almost everone remembers watching Western movies. They present but don't explain the concept of outlaws. Most prople think of it as being synonomous with criminal, but there is a big difference. Criminals are lawbreakers who are still entitled to the protection of the legal system. An outlaw, on the other hand is aomeone who by word or deed has declared an unwillingness to live within the behavioral constraints of the law and has been therefore forefits the protection of the law. It's a special designation that should only be applied in special circumstances, but the terrorist situation is one in which the designation is appropriate.

Warren Small
It looks like he doesn't wait around for a response. So brave!

History of our terrorist problem
If one objectively looks at the history of terrorists it becomes apparent that it was a movement that started small and grew. It grew because they had funds, motivation, and we demonstrated no will to stop them. There are those that would lead us to believe if we simply stop doing what we are doing they will leave us alone. It is too late for that. The international terrorst network made there plans long ago to go for our throats and keep at it. No doubt that if the lefties get their way they will blame all future failures on GWB. If the lefties get their way it will be a big step in the defeat of our country.

History
I'm starting to think that to be a modern liberal is forget that history even exists.

We treated Islamic terrorism as a law-enforcement problems all through the 90s. The result (are you listening, Warren Small?) was a string of terrorist attacks against U.S. targets that culminated in the attack that destroyed the World Trade Center.

These attacks included the first, failed attack on the World Trade Center in '93, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and the attack on the Khobar towers.

Goldberg's analysis is interesting--that the transnational hegemony sought by the terrorists makes them clearly different from criminals--but even if you reject it, there's a simpler justification for treating terrorism as a military conflict rather than a law-enforcement issue: we tried the law-enforcement approach, and it cost us two towers and 3,000 lives.

DavidM writes:
PS. If "Bush got us into this mess", what exactly did Clinton do about 93 WTC, Somalia, African Embassies, USS Cole, and Khobar towers?
****
He decided shoot off a couple cruise missiles, and then shoot a load of "little Bills" in the mouth of an intern.

Neither of which hit their target.

Terrorists NOT Criminals
Al Quaeda, and others like them, have made it clear in their actions and their words that they see themselves as being in a holy WAR against those they call infidels.

They do not seek to engage in activity which violates the laws of western nations, they seek to; convert people of the world to Islam, enslave those not worthy of conversion, or kill those who resist conversion or enslavement.

They are not soldiers of a given nation, such as we have fought other wars in the past, not that they wouldn't like to establish or take over a nation which would exist under their religious law.

They do not fight a traditional form of combat on a clearly defined battlefield, they engage in gorilla warfare, and their biggest weapon is not a nuke but fear, which they use terror to insight in those they wish to convert, enslave, or kill.

They may organize like a criminal organization, but only because they realize the effectiveness of that way of leading their followers, and they understand that the nations who work on the rule of law will have a hard time defining them and acting against them.

You're so right Jonah
You're so right Jonah. But there is one solution- invade Iraq. Of course, not you personally. We need you to tell it like it is. Maybe Colonel Hewitt then? Nah, he's serving his country by interviewing General Petraeus. We'll find somebody though, don't worry.

sashal
Well, let's see. For one, your can now find Al Quida leadership folks talking about how Iraq is the main front on the war with the Infidel (that would be us).

Secondly, the rest of the world learned something when Saddam's bluff was called (and see "Rand"y's post above about why the bluff was called) and some bystanders like Libya have decided the West is serious, so it's a good time to come clean and not P us off. Others like Iran and North Korea are taking the opposite approach, but will be dealt with in time.

Thirdly, Obama's musings to the contrary, Pakistan is currently an ally (although there are many within its borders who would prefer to be fighting on the other side.) Working through and with allies is supposed to be preferable to dictating to the world "DO THIS!" and bombing them if they don't, n'est pas? If a nation is a friendly then we should not actively undermine them. I refer you to the restuls of Jimmy Carter actively weakening a friendly state in Iran. Now imagine someone like Khomeni getting his hands on an atomic arsenal.

Forth, name-calling within a question (especially a quip type question) doesn't make the one being questioned look like a fool, it makes them look smarter because of the questioner's reliance on name calling to make themselves look bigger.

Tony Soprano was an idiot.. are you?
Another rant about terrorists? Did you just wake up?

If you haven't yet figured out that they are really just a bunch of rotten drug addled a-holes who enjoy recreational evil then you better not quit your day job and just limit your contributions to these forums as just another blogger like us and stop yourself from writing just another opinionated rehash.

Get your head into something else like science or something and let the army take care of 'em.

I do.

Check out my blog at http://baudrunner.blogspot.com and learn something you didn't know before.

(cheap, I know)






so, Jonah, the
amazing idiot.

How did Iraq help fighting the AQ terrorist safe in Pakistan ?

Al-Qaida is a threat.
Al-Qaida has sworn to destroy America. But because they aren't a country themselves, many people discount their hatred of and their determination to extingusih America. Those who wish to grant them the rights of judicial process ignore the seriousness of their threat. War is hell because it's underlying doctrine is kill or be killed. During WWII anyone caught waging war but not wearing a uniform was shot on the spot. That policy was necessary to avoid the calamitous loss of civilian lives. Al-Qaida has upped the anti dramatically, as it routinely kills countless civilians in it's quest for victory. All the more reason they should be shot on the spot without benefit of judicial review.

DavidM
Good Post...And by the way no liberal is ever going to answer you P.S. post. Bush is doing what Clinton didn't have the guts to do.

Id rather be chickenhawk than
chickensh!t.

I registered for selective service and if I am required to serve, I will. Beyond that you 'chickenhawk' morons can stuff it. Its currently an all volunteer army which is working, MOVE ON.

Geneva conventions allow you to hold ANY combatants until hostilities cease-even indefinitely. No the law doesnt' require due process, tribunals, or Korans in your cell.

PS. If "Bush got us into this mess", what exactly did Clinton do about 93 WTC, Somalia, African Embassies, USS Cole, and Khobar towers?

Small ignores the facts
Small doesn't mention at all that one of the reasons we knocked off Saddam is because he had been violating the cease fire provisions of the treaty ending Gulf War I for twelve years by doing things such as firing at our airplanes. Even though the first Gulf War was a coalition effort, I don't recall hearing that any other nation's airplanes were patrolling the no fly zones. Then after the Oil for Food Scandal came to light it turned out that some of our coalition partners were in cahoots with Saddam in violating the treaty provisions. As far as I am concerned, if you wanted to treat Saddam as a "criminal matter", then violation of treaty is a good start. However, this is not to say that he wasn't also a threat to our security on other grounds. His support for Palestinian bombers and other terrorists, such as Abu Nidal, showed that Saddam was willing to do whatever he could do, out of pique at losing the First Gulf War, to frustrate and injure the United States. Now that he has been hanged, I don't hear anyone bemoaning his loss or the potential contribution to the further happiness of the human race. Why all of this concern for taking Saddam out? He was a vicious, murdering thug who used the resources of an oil-rich state to foment unrest and violence against his own people as well as people such as Americans. Good riddance. Speaking as a former prosecutor, and a former AF intelligence officer, I do not agree that acts of terror should be treated as criminal justice matters. THere are a host of reasons why that is so, which I will not take the time to discuss here, but I really get riled when I see libs like Small here using only those facts that are convenient to condemn our whole effort in the middle East.

Chopper John, you rock!
And, Warren Small, your last name describes your intellect quite well. You, my friend, are a very Small man, indeed. An anti-semitic Chatty Cathy for the lunatic left. You don't even know how to snark with any degree of effectiveness.

Rich L., are you Jonah's boss? Did he ask you to post? ;-)

funky and Warren, you are the enemy!
Idiots!! Let's tie our hands behind our backs so that it is a "fair fight". What a bunch of socialist rubbish! You may want to commit suicide and hate America for being the greatest nation the world has ever seen, but I don't want you to try to take me down with you. Please, if you love the Islamofacists so much, take your sorry butts over there and show them the love. They'll treat you just fine!

OK Small
I consider many of the articles I read here on TH interesting and, frequently, informative, but I try desperately not to get involved with you professional posters. I wonder sometimes, don't you have anything better to do?

But I digress. The few posts of yours that I've read this AM have raised a few questions. Noticing that you like to use the term "chickenhawk" frequently, as well as other names intended solely for derogation, I wonder, does that make you feel superior? Perhaps I should inform you that a hawk of any name is a successful predator or it ceases to exist. Since you use "chickenhawk" apparently as an insult toward those who either are not, nor have not served in the military, would you care to describe your military qualifications?

You also used the term "shallow" in describing Goldberg's article, yet, I've seen nothing deep or original in any of your arguments. Your declaration that the efforts, thus far, in Iraq are a lost cause must mean you have some insight that others of far more experience, knowledge and training don't have. And please don't use Harry Reid as your guidepost.

Finally, your obvious leaning toward anti-semitism is distressing to say the least. Are you an anti-semite Mr. Small, or are you just a weak-spined name caller?

"IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT!!!"
...at least according to the above posters.
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