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Saturday, November 03, 2007
Doug Giles :: Townhall.com Columnist
Pusillanimous Pastors are Worse than Strident Atheists
by Doug Giles
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It’s been fun sparring with the atheists lately. I truly appreciate their blasts against God, Christ, Scripture and the church as they serve to shape up the intellectually flabby and spiritually indolent Christians who’re coasting through life picking lint out their navels instead of engaging our culture.

Therefore, muchas gracias mis hermanos del diablo.

Look, Christian, if it weren’t for the atheists busting our chops and asking us the tricky questions and bringing up the offensive aspects of Scripture, most of the church wouldn’t lift a manicured, uncalloused finger to investigate such topics and formulate a non-whacked answer to the gloves-off godless inquiries.

So, quit crying church, the atheists are good for you. Embrace them. They’ll put meat on your bones and hair on your chest, Nancy boy.

Frankly, the people who concern me—the ones I think are more malevolent than the obstreperous atheists—are the postmodern prevaricating pastors and priests who sidestep the stout aspects of Scripture because of the pressures of political correctness.

Correct me if I’m mistaken, brethren, but I’m pretty certain that Christ saved his most scathing invectives for the in-house boys who were ashamed of His person, works and word and who bowed to the crowd.

I was thunderstruck the other day at how far the church has moved away from preaching the raw gospel when I happened upon an old black and white Billy Graham crusade on the tube. It had to be at least 40 if not 50 year old footage.

Billy was in his prime. He was young, had dark wavy hair, and he was full of P&V. I’m thinking this is pretty cool. However, let’s check Graham out. Let’s see if he preaches Oprah verses Obadiah like a lot of postmodern therapeutic Tony Robbins wannabe ministers are doing in the pulpit today.

As you can imagine, Billy didn’t play. The man delivered the goods. He didn’t bee-bop and scat around the difficult sayings of Christ and the gospel. He clearly wasn’t on TV preaching to get rich, to sell his latest book, to be Christendom’s playmate of the month, nor to soul stroke an impenitent mob of vapid narcissists.

Graham simply stood up there with boldness and verve and delivered the gospel unapologetically. It was heaven or hell . . . turn or burn . . . that came rolling off Graham’s tongue. I was blown away by how non-PC Billy G was.

Here’s a list of what Graham touched on during his 40 minute sermon. You won’t hear this stuff talked about much anymore, especially by the TV and mega church ministers. Too costly. Too offensive. Matter of fact, why don’t you take this list to church with you this Sunday or have a copy handy next time you sit down to watch the next televangelist and see how many times they mention what the respected Graham did, namely . . .

• The holiness of God

• The fear of God

• Man’s innate depravity

• The heinousness of sin

• The wrath of God

• Our eventual death

• Our personal accountability to God

• Our pending eternal judgment

• The reality of Hell

• The commandment to repent from sin

• The death, burial and resurrection of Christ from the dead

• Faith in Christ being the only way to God

• The command to the repentant to radically obey Christ in all things

Graham hammered home all the above without an apology or some befuddled explanation. He didn’t attempt to dull down God’s holiness, lessen His terror, go easy on man’s sinfulness, throw water on God’s wrath, sweep everyone into heaven, or make Christ one of many ways to paradise. Nope, he was clear, convicting and convincing, and there was a marked silence in the crowd as he ministered. There was an incredible sense of awe. No, not awe. Awe is too tame. It was more like . . . let’s see . . . um . . . fear. Yeah, that’s it—fear. The fear of God.

Y’know it was interesting that Billy didn’t talk about . . .

• Your success

• Your prosperity

• Thinking positive thoughts

• Confessing positive things

• Your personal happiness

• Your purpose in life

• Your personal destiny

• Turning your dreams into reality

• Creating your future now

• How to be a super you

• Broadening your vision

• Developing a strong self-image

There was zilch, zero, zippo, nothing, nil, and nada about you-you-you. It was strangely Christocentric instead of anthropocentric. It was crazy.

If someone were to preach today what Billy Graham preached in that old video, he’d get tagged as an extremist or a hater as we have become so entrenched in the politically correct gospel of gooey goose bumps for impenitent altar tramps.

Face it gents, Scripture is offensive, and if you stand for the unprocessed and uncensored truth claims of the gospel you will be barbequed within our nation which has officially become nicer than Christ. Jesus himself promised it in John, remember?

"If you find the godless world is hating you, remember it got its start hating me. If you lived on the world's terms, the world would love you as one of its own. But since I picked you to live on God's terms and no longer on the world's terms, the world is going to hate you. When that happens, remember this: Servants don't get better treatment than their masters. If they beat on me, they will certainly beat on you. If they did what I told them, they will do what you tell them.” (John 15: 18-20, The Message)

Matter of fact, Jesus said, “you’re pretty much eternally screwed (woe to you!) when all men speak well of you and you’re the big cheese. That’s how they spoke of the false prophets who loved to tickle the ears of the licentious listener” (author’s translation).

As you can tell political correctness bugs me more than atheism. I appreciate, in all sincerity, the atheist’s attacks. They have served to bolster the church by pushing it back into sound doctrine and practice and away from superficiality and selfishness.

Pluralism and political correctness, on the other hand, continue to weaken the church by removing or vilifying the very hard and exclusive truth claims of Christ that can truly save and change a person and a nation both now and in eternity.

These truths, to be sure, are offensive to the selfish, but they happen to be the very thing which brings about real and lasting transformation. And that’s what we need: transformation. A radical 180 from the direction we’re going as a people and a country.

So my advice is twofold: First, let’s continue to wrangle with the atheists. They’re only helping things by rapping our knuckles. If we embrace their verbal mace we’ll come out as better believers. Secondly, seeing that PC-riddled Christianity is more dastardly than uncut atheism, why don’t we call to account ministers who have drifted from the whole counsel of God and have substituted it for a different gospel, a different spirit, and are preaching a different motivational-type-Deepak-Chopra-Kenny G-with-a-beard-guru kind of Jesus?

Yeah, that’s it. No matter how popular the pastor, no matter how much they grin, and no matter how much they love puppy dogs and candy canes, let’s challenge the PC priests of the new millennium to quit preaching half truths, psychobabble, trite clichés, cutesy sayings, sweet ditties and hackneyed aphorisms from their amputated Bibles.

Let’s press ‘em to just deliver sound doctrine, please. Nothing fancy. No gimmicks, por favor. Tell them that you’ll get your motivational stuff from Tony Robbins or Donald Trump and that you’d really, really appreciate them giving you the ungarnished gospel of God. Be patient, as some of these guys haven’t preached the gospel in so long they might have forgotten it. However, if after correction they don’t get back on track after a few months, I’d leave that “church” and find a church that’ll deliver the goods as Graham and other great preachers of old did back in the day.

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About The Author
Doug Giles’ new book “If You're Going Through Hell, Keep Going!" is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.
 
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Pussilanimous Pastors are worse than ath
Granted

However, Using New Age Bible versions such as The Message is every bit as hellish as pusillanimous pastors...

Pusillanimous Pastors are Worse
I am a Chaplain of 22 years in the Army, and have never compromised, always given an invitation to receive Christ at the end of my sermons. My congregations are still singing the old great hymns. All of this is happening in a modern Army Chapel, or a field service. Take heart there are still many like me inside and outside the military.
I attribute my conservative stances to my training and education at Clearwater Christian College and New Orleans Baptist Seminary, and the example of my Pastor the Reverend Jimmy Hammond, of the First Baptist Church of Pinellas Park, FL.

knight of baawa
"I did. And nothing happened. I did exactly what christians told me to do. And nothing happened."

Are you sure nothing happened? Are you sure you did exactly?

Here are a few things you can test:
1) Did you pray, sincerely, morning and night, for a witness?
2) Did you read and study the scriptures, applying the learnings to your life?
3) Did you stay morally clean? No sexual relations outside the bonds of marriage?
4) Did you pay an honest tithing, consistently?
5) Did you honor the Sabbath day, keeping it special and holy (not just "going to church"
6) Did you keep the 10 commandments?
7) Did you consistently serve others, looking to bless their lives?
8) Did you never stop doing the above?

As for a first witness, if you did those things consistently, you must remember the intense joy you felt - the real joy of being close to God, the warmth and peace, and hope, and love for Him and His Son, and for all his children. You must have felt the goodness, and purity and cleanness that radiated in your life. You must have felt the fruit of a clean conscience, knowing that you are clean, though not perfect. Waking up in the morning rejoicing to be alive, and your heart and mind quickened with joy, gladness and the sacred? That is the first witness that He lives. He sheds that on all his true followers – no respecter of persons. I have felt this, and it’s real. You can’t fake this, at least not on the long haul. It’s been 30 yrs+ for me. It takes sacrifice to come to know.

The Lord always honors His word - we just need to continue, and never give up. Once we give up, the adversary takes over, darkens our minds and hearts, and the evil fruit displaces the good. Malice, hatred, pride, it's all the evil fruit from the evil one. The Spirit of God removes all that. That is the 1st great witness.

I invite you to try again, and never give up this time.




baawa babble is not proof
.

KOB
"bible babble is not proof"

You claim to believe in science. The scientific method is based in experimentation to find truth. It never knows at first, but tests and experiments.

God said, "Prove me herewith"...exactly like the scientific method! How about putting your money where your mouth is...by honestly trying!

So, why don't you do it? Because it's easier to throw rocks, tear down, call names, argue, etc. than it is to humble oneself, admit you don't know, come to Him, be obedient, keep commandments, and change your ways. The promise is sure - you will know. It's ALWAYS possible to know - the question is will you ACT to know?

knight of baawa
I think it's interesting he doesn't attempt to defend his hate group, and his reputation after being associated with something so dispicable. At least we finally understand why he is here. He's not here for knowledge, or to impart his own, but to gain rank within a hate group.

I find it also interesting that baawa tries to claim Hitler was not an atheist, when he and his group's rhetoric is just as hate-filled as Nazi rhetoric. It's barely distinguishable.

Only a true narcissist
could resort to self-flattery and presume that his words had such power.

landofconfusion
That's why I didn't link the more offensive sites. Can you imagine the hypocrisy of a group that chides us for the Great Commission having taking a cudgel to the faithful as its charter? Talk about blindness!

Then he goes on about how he is a product of ethics and moral systems that have "evolved" over the years. So much for the saving power of evolution.

In the "nothing new under the sun" department, the theological errors he makes are those that a Sunday School kid could trash. They have been made for years, and aren't even worth discussing. You can find them on on skeptic and atheist website, which is where he gets them. There's a whole site of alleged Biblical "contradictions" that would get you laughed out of a debate in seminary.

Better than he have made more intelligent attempts. Now he stupidly thinks that inerrancy has something to do with scientific accuracy. And he still can't understand that ancient Hebrew was reconstructed, having been mostly lost, and that the word meanings are derived from their various usage. The science argument is just a straw man, as most of their arguments are. Did you see his recent evasion? That's close to the dumbest, ill-formed logic that I've ever seen.

I think that they all need to justify their blindness even when they lose IQ points with each lame attempt. You have to wonder where the attitude comes from, or conclude that the little hate group (like your tag!) just attracts social misfits. His sickness is that he persists here. You're right - he'll never make warlord!

knight of...
You're right Rich, in fact, he won't learn anything ever. He's proven wrong constantly and can't see it. After researching his group for a bit, it's obvious their goals are to just spread hatred against religion, primarily Christianity, and to get higher fake ranks in an Internet club... I think it's hilarious, personally. Once I saw what baawa stood for I laughed pretty hard. It's so corny.

I don't even want to link websites related to his organization because the content on them is so offensive. I do suggest people google "baawa" so they can see what this knight of baawa guy is all about.

Seriously knight of baawa, why are you part of this organization? I thought you were just a dumb kid, and maybe you are, but I have to admit I'm surprised you're part of something so vile, and soooo geeky too. Do you really think you're a tough guy? A bad *** knight with attitude? lol...

Error number two
Land, the Hebrew words in that verse (Lev. 11:6)are gerah and 'alah. Gerah is only there and in Deut. 14:7, so the meaning must be derived from them. 'Alah, used in some form on nearly every page of the OT, means brought up, lifted, rise up, offering, carry up, take up, fetch, and more. Poor knight doesn't know about hares and refection, though he obviously practices it frequently himself.

Don't expect him to learn anything from this, however.

Land, see how ignorant he is?
Ancient Hebrew has fewer than 8000 words. They have a word for a flying animal, so a bat would be included. He wouldn't understand that, erroneously thinking that the ancient Hebrews were writing about biological taxonomies. How foolish of God not to give his chosen people words for computers and telephones. I mean, the Egyptians had them, right?

wow, Rich D
I new he was a militant atheist, but I didn't know he comes directly from a hate group. Thanks for exposing this fool, as fun as it is to laugh at him an press his buttons, he is no better than some neo-nazi and you're right, he should be totally ignored.

I don't think and of his "warlords" will ever promote him, judging on his performance here, though.

uber -
Science doesn't contradict the Bible at all. I'm definately religious and I use alarm clocks, microwaes and whatnot everyday. These devices don't weaken my faith each time I use them, perhaps I am immune to that effect. And atheists can have dogma too, look up the word then read knight of baawa's posts.

Personally, I think it's a great idea to flush Darwin's insane extrapolations down the toilet so we can get back to real science. Skepticism is something Christian's also posses. I'm highly skeptical of atheism, and I think the best atheism can offer is perhaps a "free" conscience to carry out your sinful desires. The worst atheism has offered was Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.

Knight's posts are original &informative
Where they are original, they are not informative and where they are informative, they are not original.

Poor little plagiarist.

uber: Thanks for sharing!
.

Religion is Ignorance is Bliss
The point of watering down the bible is to make a ridiculous document relevant to a nation indebted in scientific rational thought.

Every day Americans live with the fruits of scientific skepticism and inquiry. Form cell phones, to computers, from plastic to antibiotics, from management science to game theory and economic sociology.... Americans can get up to science with their alarm clocks, they eat with science in microwave ovens and sterile packaged goodies, they go to sleep with science with sleeping pills and electric blankets...

There is not a single part of our lives which has not been deeply effected by science.

The benefits of a skeptical curious mind have show to have few limits.

Dogma... In contrast has provided little good other than ignorant bliss, and much bad...

To flush the Koran down the toilet is a great idea even if it was responsible for creating the condition for the evolution of modern mathematics... The same is true of the Bible... We are better with out it even if it created the conditions for the scientific revolution....

In both cases... The new paradigm.... Skepticism.... Has shown itself most powerful...

Watered down lies is literally the best any religion can offer humanity.

For Rich D
I checked dictionary.com's acronym finder.

Bad-A55ed Atheist With Attitude.

better description is

Below-Average Atheist With Arrogance--LOL!

KOB
And if you want more proof..here it is:

1) If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself (John 7:17)

2) Bring ye all the tithes into my storehouse, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there is not room enough to receive it (Mal 3:10)

Do those things, and you will know. If you don't do these things you will NEVER know, and no proof would help you. Even if you could feel the nail prints yourself, it wouldn't help you.

Pay tithing (10% of income) and a generous offering besides for a year, and the windows (interesting language "windows") will be open to you. Keep his commandments and you will know.

The price of knowing is doing. Will you do?

KOB
"Please provide it"

I did. Living witnesses who have seen and heard. Ancient and modern. Fruits of the Spirit, and a thousand times ten thousand more every day. The living witnesses - they have seen, but you have not. You are in the jury...you must decide. You will believe a witness in a court of law, but will you believe a true witness when he says he has seen God?

But you didn't answer my question. It's easy to know - very easy. Hard part, it requires a real change. Are you willing to change to come to know? Are you willing to keep commandments?

I think the real rub with athiests is they know deep down, but it's the change - the accountability - that they do not want. You will see one day that the Lord has given you and I so many, many witnesses - seen and unseen, felt, and heard, that we will not be able to look up to Him and say otherwise.

Come, try. You will know for yourself.

What is a baawa? - II
Knight's been upset with me ever since I exposed his dour band of social misfits and posted links to their trash. What's quite ironic is his accusing me of being a stalker when his dungeon and dragons group has trolling and stalking as its charter.

He really is a narcissist (denial is one of the characteristics) - check out this site and tell me if I'm wrong:

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

He gets upset when anything puts ripples in his reflection pond because it prevents him from seeing himself as he wants to be. Regarding obsessions, note how he can post continually without taking a break.

"Severe impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) staying in bed all day,..."

In prior posts, he has claimed that religion has threatend his liberties and ruined his life. See my reference on blame-shifting and denial.

"They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others..."

The fact that he doesn't have to come here should tell you something about his need to denigrate us for followig the Great Commission. I don't know of Christians who make it a point to go to atheist sites just to name-call. The website says that therapy just makes them worse.

What is a baawa? - I
landofconfusion writes: Tuesday, November, 06, 2007 1:31 PM

"what is a baawa?"

Oh, you don't know?! It stands for Bad-@ssed Athiests with Attitude. This is a gang of misfits who assume knighthood and give each other high-fives for bashing religious people and getting kicked off message boards. They have a leader called the Warlord and worry about such things as WWABD (What Would A BAAWA Do) bracelets and decoder rings. No kidding! They amuse themselves by calling Christians four-letter words and telling (very) crude Jesus jokes. Be careful if you do searching - you will not like the jokes. What they don't know is that there is an aboriginal language where baawa means baby. If you think that I jest:

http://aplawrence.com/Personal/Philosophy/baawa.html

That is why it is pointless to debate them - they really aren't wanting to learn anything, but just troll around looking for sites to track their atherist manure on to to earn a shot at being Warlord. Knight has been at it for months, and seems to have a high tolerance for everything except being ridiculed, which really stings him. That's what he parrots stuff back and resorts to name-calling.

Doug's Church
Doug knows what he's talking about and if you ever have the chance get on over to his church in Aventura, FL. He hits you hard on the head with compelling points that are right on target scripturally. Also, google R.C. Sproul of Ligonier Ministries he is a mentor of Doug's. He gives really thorough sermons from a Reformist perspective of the truth.

knight of baawa (what is a baawa?)
knight of baawa said: "This whole landofconfusion thing is like frying ants with a magnifying glass. They don't understand why they're being burned."

I told you he would steal it. He knows it was a good line. =D

knight of baawa said: "You see: there is no progression from theory to law to fact, much to you chagrin."

I always learned that there was, and I believe that there is. Some people here have a theory that you have NPD, is that a fact? By your logic, it is.

knight of baawa said: "Tell that to the people who've observed it (that macro evolution is a fact). Go on. Tell them. Let them laugh in your face, pat you on your head, and send you on your way"

If they believe macro evolution is a fact, and they weren't conditioned to believe that by the public schools, then what's the purpose of me telling them? They're obviously irrational to begin with.

Off topic - Is it me, or is that last sentance in that last KoB paragraph I quoted an example of what we've been doing to KoB for months?

knight of baawa said: "why is there theistic evolution?"

Because some religious people believe in macro evolution and try to reconcile it with their beliefs.

knight of baawa said: "But you have." - Regarding me telling him I never misquoted him.

Where have I misquoted you?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: what is an infallibist, and what is the infallbist fallacy? I still don't see it in that post of yours at 3:22 PM on Monday.

KOB
"Prove it"...

Here is a "what if": What if you were on a jury, in a court of law, and a number of witnesses testified that they saw and heard a person murder someone. And they weren't alone. Let's say a number of people saw the same person do this. But you never saw it. Worse, you have to decide the fate of that person accused. Could even mean the death penalty based on who you believe. Testimony in a court of law is taken as truth...it's been "proven"..and the person is convicted, and suffers the consequences. But you never saw it, and you must believe the strong testimony of those honorable, credible witnesses. There have been many honorable witnesses, ancient and modern, who have seen for themselves, and know and have likewise testified.

This is where the "prove it" argument fails. They are true witnesses, inviting us to qualify for the same experience...to see and know for ourselves. But you have a choice - accept or reject that initial testimony. A colossal choice in each of our lives!

That is why feelings are critical - not just reason - but feelings. One of the strongest evidences is : "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith". The Spirit of the Lord takes away all malice, strife, wrath, envy, and hate. And it is a supreme joy - very real.

When I see malice, strife, wrath, etc. you can mark it down, there the Spirit of the Lord is not, and there is darkness..."give me a sign", or "prove it".

here is how you can know;
1) Clean your life - obey his commandments to the best of your ability to come in harmony withe the Spirit
2) Pray to Him to know - in sincerity

Then you will know for yourself. Do you really want to know for yourself? Are you willing to pay that price to come to know? It's too easy to throw rocks. Way too easy. I've been taught, the easy way is usually the wrong way.

landof & Rich: OK, you guys are having

just WAY, WAY, WAY too much fun....


PARTY ON!!!!! LOL



knight of baawa ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This whole knight of baawa thing is like frying ants with a magnifying glass. They don't understand why they're being burned.

Baawa will probably steal that one from me... I bet he doesn't get it...

knight of baawa said: "Every time you screamed that gravity isn't a theory."

We consider it a scientific law, and we consider it fact. You see, it passed the protocols to become fact. If you want to go into this whole "it's a theory thing," well, some Zen masters believe you don't even exist, let alone theories. Macro Evolution is not fact. Maybe some people say that it is on that talkorigins website you've linked to me in the past, or by some biologists deviating from scientific principles, but it's not fact. In public schools, they teach evolution (macro of course, as always) as pure fact. This is wrong, it's a form of indoctrination. There is overwhelming proof of gravity, there is not for macro evolution.

Atheists beliefs often hinge on the issue of evolution. I don't think there were as many atheists before Darwin as there are now because evolution was finally seen as the excuse for there being no God. People finally had an explaination to ease their conscience as they went about doing whatever it was they wanted to do. Since atheists cling to evolution so strongly, they don't want it refuted. They don't want to defend it. They don't want to deal with it. Most want us to just shut up, take it as fact, and forget about it being a theory completely. They don't want us to test evolution, and they "cover their ears" as they scream "FACT!" when creationists challenge them.

And by the way baawa, I never misquoted you. (Go ahead, instead of finding proof that I have just call me a liar as usual). Oh yeah, I almost forgot: what is an infallibist, and what is the infallbist fallacy?

Rich D.: You certainly hit the nail

on the head...

And, I am glad that you provide the "updates" since I haven't really read one of his posts in probably months...

Between this control freak, roberto (ugh!) and now sophia (or however many aka's she has) my scroll wheel is almost warn out.

But, Rich, keep me posted. It's fun reading your posts and updates. LOL



Knight's NPD
is theory, fact, and law. Q.E.D.

Control freak - II
After six months, the poor guy still hasn't gotten over my comparing him to Don Quixote, Sancho Panza, and Pantagruel all rolled into one, riding backwards on his gelding, bent lance at the ready for the next offending windmill, no windmill blade with canvas left unscathed - hence Sir Limplance. The best he could do with that is call me the name, even though those who remember the parody know where it came from and those who don't are left puzzled. It hurts him most not to be taken seriously, but how could we?

Keep asking him how he knew he was a Christian (just like Hitler, another of his stupid assertions).

Ah, decoder rings, WWABD bracelets, warlords, knights - as long as he stays in his fantasy castle of cards, I guess he's harmless, except for trashing every thread he tracks his manure-laden boots through. He just ticked because he hasn't made warlord yet. Here's the first:

"Stix, the first BAAWA Warlord, practically *invented* good invective, at least on alt.atheism. Old-timers here still get misty-eyed remembering his almost..."

Misty-eyed! They get misty-eyed missing invective like this:

"'christianic mythology is a ficticious crock of s--t.' -Stix, undefeated former Warlord."

Can't you just see them all with their BAAWA monogrammed silk hankies? And notice the familiar "undefeated" claim. These kids wear their diapers plastic side in!

Control freak - I
You are correct, Anne. He has to control all of the discussion on these threads - always butting in to conversations. Regarding out-of-control public behavior, I'd like to take him to a steelworker's bar and watch the fun.

As to his comment on others being easily amused, he apparently is never amused.

You know that you have him when all he can to is childish parroting back of your post without even salting it with the usual "liar", "stupid", "idiot", "moron", "hypocrite", and accusations of being hateful to some group or another.

What's funny is when he pretends to care about and defend Jews while attacking Christians vehemently - does he forget that they started it? He just hates anybody who is different and knows anything at all, especially if it differs from his distorted worldview.

I like being accused of "stalking" him like he does occasionally when I post in a thread he has claimed an "exclusive" on. I expect the sheriff to show up with a PFA order!

knight of baawa - again
Just to clarify incase, in the last post, the only words I wrote myself was the first sentance, and the rest of the post was a copy and pasting of knight of baawa's post fron 3:22 on Monday. Although I guess you could count his misquotes of my words as my words in that post, somewhat.

knight of baawa said: "I already had. Now why can't you grasp that something can be theory, fact, and law at the same time? Yes, you did argue against that."

When did I argue against that? Why would I? I argued against the theory of evolution being those 3 things, when it is only one: a theory. That's all. I also argued that evolution (macro, of course) should not be taught as fact in public schools, especially since it is not even a scientific law.

knight of baawa
Knight of baawa claims he explained what the infallibist fallacy is in this post:

"knight_of_baawa writes: Monday, November, 05, 2007 3:32 PM
landofconfusion
Me: "Just another whiner in a long line of cowards whom I've intellectually demolished.

I was never proven wrong about the definition of secularism. landofconfusion has no idea that something can be a fact and theory at the same time. He did use the infallibist fallacy, and then strawmans what I said above.

Poor little coward. Poor poor little coward. No one should ever take him seriously, since I proved him wrong on every point. Poor little coward."

land: "I showed our exchange to some atheist friends of mine"

No you didn't, liar.


" The scientific law of gravity isn't a theory,"

Then why is there the quantum THEORY of gravity? You see: you have yet to figure out that something can be theory, fact, and law at the same time. I think the reason that you haven't grasped it yet is because you're just an idiot.


" One again, if your definition of secularism is correct"

Which it is. Feel free to remember that.


"And finally, what is an infabilist?"

You tell me, since you're the only one who spells it like that. I spelled it correctly.


"I can't find this word anywhere, except by people who spell infallibalist incorrectly."

I have no idea, since I spelled "infallibist" correctly. Poor you. Poor poor you. You have to resort to outright lies about my spelling, such is how desperate you are.


"I'm not a Catholic, so I can't be an infallibalist."

Except, of course, I said "infallibist fallacy", which is something you have never heard of because you're an idiot. The infallibist fallacy is where you assume humans are always wrong simply because we're not infallible. And that's what you do.

Now then, moron: try harder. "

Do you hear whining?
Maybe the bearing on my furnace blower motor needs oiling - oh, wait, it's not even on.

Handwaving
If you ignore his ignorance, we could have a reasonable discussion. It's obvious that he hasn't consulted Strong's, so why bother arguing Isaiah with him?

Obviously, right from the start, the Jewish authorities attempted to discredit all testimony about Jesus, the alleged b@stard son of the soldier Panthera. One would know that in that culture, a maiden who wasn't a virgin was in for a real tough time of it. Of course, if Jesus didn't exist or wasn't special, why spread stories about stealing the body or being born illegitimetly? The translators of the Septuagint, created because Hebrew was a nearly dead language and many Jews spoke only Greek rendered it as "virgin" several hundred years B.C. Seventy (or seventy two) idiots, right?

Typo
Saw it too late: Revelation.

Sorry
I took some time off to watch the Steelers' blowout of the Ravens. Downside was that Ben got hurt.

We have several churches in this area voting to leave the Presbytery and an Episcopal group voted against the main org. What might have to happen is that the preachers will have to empty the churches before they can fill them again. I see too many Christians who are weak on the fundamentals and lukewarm on evangelism. They can be matched up with one of the seven in Revelations.

Mo
Mo writes: Monday, November, 05, 2007 9:46 PM
Such a waste of time.
I came back to see how the thread was going. Wow, what a waste of time.

I tried to answer the objections posed by some folks, and instead I get the response that I'm 'handwaving away problems'. There's not even an attempt to actually consider the substance of what I've said, is there? Just complete dismissal.

I'm done.

Foxfire:

Mo, haven't you noticed that most of these threads are that way.

No body ever comes back at you and says; I never thought of that, good point.

You can send 20-30 minutes laying out and excellent argument and some of these people will completely blow it off and tell you what a jerk you are, or that you are delusional, or a bigot.

You have to figure that you are wasting your time to respond to anybody of different ideology.

NevadaDad & YLG: Good point...

We have a few of them around here...






Marines' Dad: Moi???
.

NevadaDad
Wow...and I though he was just an ASSHO**

NevadaDad
Are you sure it wasn't Robert that Rich was profiling? I see many, many parallels here...

Anne
Speaking of "profiles," Rich D., who posts frequently on TH, pegged him (KOB) for Narcissistic Personality Disorder using the criteria in the DSM-IV Manual:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


Now Anne, Stop picking on the libs
You're just simply having too much fun.

knight of baawa ~~~~
knight of baawa said: "Y'see: in science, theory does not mean "guess". It does not mean "hypothesis". It does not mean "something you dreamt up"."

Great, you finally got the definition of theory down. Now, you see, the quantum theory of gravity isn't the theory of universal gravitation. The theory of universal gravitation is a scientific law, regarded as fact by almost everyone. The quantum theory of gravity is not a scientific law, and is taught in schools, but not as fact. The theory of evolution is not a scientific law, but is taught in public schools as fact. That is the problem I was talking about in the Mike Adams thread where all your posts were deleted. I don't know why you went into this whole theory/fact/law thing in the first place, I never argued against that.

knight of baawa said: "I didn't. And I explained what the "infallibist fallacy" is, since that's what I was talking about. Why are you just on "infallibist", when I wrote "infallibist fallacy? Are you seriously that dishonest?"

I never saw you explain what the infallibist fallacy is, nor what the word infallibist means. Please define the word, and tell me why it's a fallacy, and why I fall for it. Until then, I don't know what you're talking about, and I tried to figure it out by using google and a few other sites. Don't try to dance around this by calling me dishonest or giving me "meaning of is" arguments.

Such a waste of time.
I came back to see how the thread was going. Wow, what a waste of time.

I tried to answer the objections posed by some folks, and instead I get the response that I'm 'handwaving away problems'. There's not even an attempt to actually consider the substance of what I've said, is there? Just complete dismissal.

I'm done.


YLG: No, I'm not sure he's married.

But for three years I was a Cert. Domestic Violence and Abuse Counselor, and as a paralegal helped set up the DVA Dept. in the DA's office.

Fits the profile.

And, you could be right..'liar' might be the only word he knows.




CT: One of Giles' points, exactly!

No different from parents giving their children anything they want for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

We used to have a wonderful priest at our parish who often reminded us that there was a reason God called them "The Ten Commandments" and NONT The Ten Suggestions!








Years ago....
...I watched a movie called "Pollyanna", with Hayley Mills. In a scene where she is talking to the reverend (Karl Malden), she points out that there are 800 happy texts in the Bible. Later on, he states that there are actually 815. I have looked for them, and found many, and my life is all the better for it.

Nevada Dad and atheists
I really enjoyed your post on asking "why". A couple things really struck me with your thoughts. What you have written about are things of the heart - feeling. But to the all-wise atheist - or agnostic? - they seem to cut off that dimension of learning and knowing. Either it's in the mind or it's no where. Either it can be "proven" or it's false. But Christ came that we might have life, and have it more abundantly. Heart + Mind = fullness of joy.

Also - the fundamental argument of the athiest seems to be "Since I have not experienced it, or know it, then no one else has or can". Now, they would never admit that, but it is true nevertheless. Not one single atheist today has ever died! And by one sweep of a foolish pen, they proclaim "there is no life after death, there is no God". They cannot explain the joy, the real beautiful joy that comes to the true sincere believer. They say "he is mad", etc. Why? Because they have not experienced it, then of course no one else can either. Yet we have the testimony of many who have seen for themselves the resurrected Lord, that causes such joy in our hearts.

This might help on the thief on the cross - Jesus never said he was going to heaven, but rather "thou shalt be with me in paradise". The word paradise is a modern invention, the translators made it up. The ancient texts have the word as Sheol as "a world of spirits". There he went, to learn the gospel, to repent, to make amends (assuming he does) and he will merit a just reward. Mercy cannot rob Justice when it has claim. But the Plan of Happiness is much broader than the simple Heaven and Hell concept of eternity. That helps me sort through somewhat the current inconsistencies that will become all too consistent in the next life.

Anne
Are you sure he's married?

Seems to me, we should hold an intervention on her behalf!

BTW, is 'liar' the only word he knows, or what?


Many of today's popular evangelists
preach a sermon that people want to hear, rather than one they need to hear. Christ spoke about it many times.

YLG: This thread started unraveling

precisely at 9:03PM on Sat., Nov. 3rd.

And what a shame since Giles had some very good points to discuss!

I can't speak for Rich D and some of the others above, but I've just been having fun playing with that insufferable nitwit!

And, oh yeah, he probably calls his wife evil names, in addition to yelling and intimidating her, and the only reason she stays is because she's too afraid to leave!




Anne, Rich D.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I honestly think this whole thread is unraveling. As for the so-called knight, he doesn't live with his mother. No woman would put up with his crap. Maybe he shares his Lego fort with Roberto....

Rich D: I'm goin' with #2.

He IS absolutely a control freak! Probably yells at his wife most of the time, and has her totally intimidated.. (Feel sorry for her...)


As out of control as he gets on the threads, I'm sure we wouldn't want to see him out of a control in person. Pretty sure THAT would be scary!





Anne
I have two speculations. Knight is in his late 50s and either

(1) is still living at his mother's house and using her computer in his basement fantasy room, or

(2) is married and is forced by his wife to get up at 4 AM to stand in line saving her a place at the department store lingerie sales, and gets rapped on the head with too many purses when she comes to exchange places at opening time.

Nevada_Dad on KOB
"You are as predictable as my pets when they hear the can opener."

LOL,....Oh, you are killing me....nice post!

religiouslib writes:
"Billy Graham has been a life long democrat by his own admission.many conservatives seem to think that Christians and the democratic party are at odds."

I write: The Reverend Billy Graham didn't have liberal views, and his life's work revolved around Christ, not poltics.

Reverend Graham preached against liberal views, and it was his anticommunist preaching that brought him to national attention.
Liberal views: http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal

Billy Graham said, "My one purpose in life is to help people find a personal relationship with God, which, I believe, comes through knowing Christ."

ROBERT/ MELLOR
Robert writes: Saturday, November, 03, 2007 11:35 PM
TH has become what....
the nutcake religious group?

MellorSJ2 writes: Saturday, November, 03, 2007 11:42 PM
Yes, Robert, it has
become the religious nutcase group.
**************************************************
If, as you seem to think, TH has gone Nutcake why is it that every time I tune into TH I encounter bloviations from from you two and come to think of it, all of it of the same old, same old smug tenor.


landof & Rich D: It's been about 40mins

since little bawa has posted...

No doubt he's furiously typing, fingers-on-fire, some inane hate and "no, you're wrong..."

If you bother to read it, I'm bettin' it promises to be hilarious.






Just curious- for Knight and all
Why do some of you care that some people choose atheism?
Similarly, why do some of you--Knight for instance-- care that some people choose otherwise?

Oh, here he comes on his horse Nullo
knight_of_baawa writes: Monday, November, 05, 2007 3:34 PM

"Oh look--it's Sir Limplance the liar
Hi liar."

Oh, look - it's the phony knight still trying to pin his appellation on someone else because his hasn't outgrown his, "No, you are" grade-school debating package.

"Have you yet figured out that you can't best me in debate?"

Maybe I can, maybe I can't, but so far you have refused to debate anybody honestly in the months that I've seen you. Three things I know for sure are that you are not even a babe on milk when it comes to Scriptural knowledge, that you are not here to be instructed in anything, and that anybody who presents evidence with which you disagree is a liar.

landofconfusion: Oh wait, never mind!

What WAS I thinking??? :-)




landofconfusion: LOL Maybe you'd best

let him off the hook... for the time being anyway.

I think his already too big head is going to EX-PLODE!!!! Kaaaaaa - booooooooommmmmm!




Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Seriously, do you even know what a theory IS? Tell me what you think a theory is.

What rhetorical question did you ask?

If you didn't misspell infallibist, can you PLEASE give me a link to where the word is defined?

landofconfusion: I think you made a

spelling error....

I think you probably meant..."Do you get it now, 'chimp'! :-)

"... little wind-up cars from a happymeal..." Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha EXCELLENT! :-)




Baaaawaaaaa
I know Anne, I feel like I pulled one of those little wind-up cars from a happymeal back so far the wheels broke. He's even calling me a liar in regards to what I did in real life now. When he can't think of anything to say, he resorts to his masterful way with words, to express his disagreement, with adages like "moron, stupid, idiot" and his favorite: "liar."

knight of baawa, to indulge you, I know I spelled your misspelling of the word incorrectly, but that doesn't change what I meant. I can't find what that word means anywhere, I have been hoping for you to define it for me for like, a week now...

Also, to answer your question; "Then why is there the quantum THEORY of gravity?"

Here's a link

http://www.physlink.com/education/AskExperts/ae620.cfm

That is why there is a quantum theory of gravity. Do you get it now, champ?

landofconfusion: Geeze, you really

set off little baawa like a bottle rocket.

Looks like you hit a nerve! LOL (And little baawa is the one who says I’m so hateful! Yeah, right!) :-)

And, you know what it says in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
(DSM IV) about people who just cannot stand to be wrong….. ? Yikes!!!! :-)

Not pretty!

julz: Hmmm. You really don't know what

you posted, do you?

I didn't think so!

Actually athiests DON'T get it, because IF they DID GET IT, they WOULDN'T be athiests!

And, another correction, it's your opinion that it's a representation of a fictional diety, and ONLY your OPINION.

(And btw, aren't you lucky you live in a country that will allow you to post such things without fear of prosecution? We lose this war with Islamo fascists, you WILL believe in a god... allah, or ......... )



Anne, right...and wrong
"athiests, agnostics, and many Christians don't get it... It's NOT about us, it IS about GOD."

The atheists DO get it. That's why we're atheists. It's a representation of a fictional diety, having everything to do with a desire for control over others and little to nothing to do with human life on earth.

Rich D: SPOT ON & well said!!!!

Of course, you've also described (to a tee) a few other posters that we have simply decided to ignore.

Excellent post! Thanks. :-)




His number is...up
NevadaDad, it was amusing to see your post on knight's intellectual dishonesty. More and more people here on TH are getting his number.

I might add a few things to it:

Intellectual dishonesty is citing a Jewish source and calling those who disagree with the source anti-semites or Jew haters.

Intellectual dishonesty is calling liars those who says that he calls people liars.

Intellectual dishonesty is insiting on only one meaning of a common word in spite of what the dictionary says.

Intellectual dishonesty is redefining a word if none of the common definitions are suitable.

Intellectual dishonesty is asserting a negative without proof but insisting that others must prove their negative assertions.

Intellectual dishonesty is giving authority to on of the oldest English translations of Scripture an asserting no validity to newer ones as though the scholarship of textual criticism and English word meanings are static.

Intellectual dishonesty is cherry-picking one or two Scripture versions out of context (and ignoring Strong's) and using them to prove a point or demonstrate alleged contradictions.

Intellectual dishonesty is calling himself a former Christian but refusing requests to explain how it changed his life.

Intellectual dishonesty is calling himself a winner.

Hey, but what do you expect from a guy who worships at the idol of the god of himself?

When I see others taking the dead-end path of debating him before figuring him out, it's heartening because it means that we are getting new readers.

knight of baawa :p
knight of baawa wrote: "Just another whiner in a long line of cowards whom I've intellectually demolished.

I was never proven wrong about the definition of secularism. landofconfusion has no idea that something can be a fact and theory at the same time. He did use the infallibist fallacy, and then strawmans what I said above.

Poor little coward. Poor poor little coward. No one should ever take him seriously, since I proved him wrong on every point. Poor little coward."

I showed our exchange to some atheist friends of mine and they wanted to make TH accounts so they could ask you to stop driving their cause into the ground. The scientific law of gravity isn't a theory, it was once before, but it is no longer. The quantum theory of gravity will probably always be a theory, but that's a different subject. One again, if your definition of secularism is correct, feel free to let me know which dictionary it is correct in. And finally, what is an infabilist? I can't find this word anywhere, except by people who spell infallibalist incorrectly. I'm not a Catholic, so I can't be an infallibalist.

BTW ~ If you proved me wrong on every point (exactly the opposite happened... as is obvious) then show me all the people who agree with you. I "intellectually demolished" you, "poor little coward." lol man. Be happy, you only have a finite life to enjoy, as you believe.

Oooh,T S, guess we've been told!!!! LOL
I wonder if that's supposed to be the chuckle for the day?? :-)






prodigy
You list several things that you believe are core Christian beliefs:
1) that " 9/11 being the fault of gays and other sinners is "basic Christian doctrine"...(you say Anne Couter said that--did she really? If she did, she was wrong.)
2) that Jesus Christ makes innocents suffer because approximately 4% of their countrymen are gay (assume here you're referring to the Phelps nutjobs who profess to be Christian)
3) that anyone who won't grovel before Jesus, regardless of how wonderful they are, must spend eternity burning in hell.
4) that we are evil/condemned to hell because Adam & Eve ate forbidden fruit etc.


I must just say that you are gravely misinformed. None of those things would be considered right by Christ or most Christians.
In 1 & 2, you are quoting radical sources, not anything mainstream, and in 3 & 4, it appears you yourself have summed up things in a manner that is either based on flawed and insufficient understanding, or purposely written in a skewed manner. I don't know which.

Bubba
Just so you know, not all Christians believe the bible was written by God. I don't know any who think that, but perhaps there are some sects who do.

what i find interesting
Billy Graham has been a life long democrat by his own admission.
many conservatives seem to think that Christians and the democratic party are at odds.

giles puts an end to that argument now doesn't he.


For Anne
Referred back to my earlier Saturday post.

Also, no need of apologies. If you saw one of my posts on the La Raza thread, I don't exactly give apologies for my negative comments about Reagan (which will certainly not sit well with many Americans) or to AudiR10 speciffically for my dislike of her hometown Toronto; as I've never seen any ripostes for these, I'm going to assume that most TH conservative postersare big enough to take it and move on (the liberals, atheists, agnostics and islamist/commie apologists are another matter entirely--as BubbaZ earlier stated).

svpallava: I have no idea what

you're talking about.


bubbaZ part II

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 9:06 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 9:24 AM Nothing there

******Harry Krishna writes: Sunday, November, 04, 2007 9:31 AM
“You've earned our scorn, Anne”


Sunday, November, 04, 2007 10:08 AM
Nothing there (“Mature, grown up, intelligent people usually take responsibility for THEIR OWN behavior...” which is TRUE!)

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 10:30 AM Nothing there
Sunday, November, 04, 2007 11:37 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 11:56 AM
kob says, "’intellectually demolished’ when it's nothing more than a childish temper tantrum!”


Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:37 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:40 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 2:31 PM
“gang of childish bullies…”

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 2:59 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 5:38 PM
“the number of posts by non-believers, and the vicious, vile, hateful rhetoric of their posts!”

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 6:14 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 6:20 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 8:30 PM Nothing there


"Anne, you're a hypocrite, you're dishonest and you're a coward." Really now?

It's a statement of fact when YOU do it?

LOL



Why bubbaZ: I think you exaggerate :-)
"And yet that's pretty much all you've done in every post here. The rational thinkers are 'dumb', 'stupid', 'idiots', 'hateful' according to you."

Saturday, November, 03, 2007 8:45 PM Nothing there

Saturday, November, 03, 2007 11:34 PM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:12 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:15 AM
“… if only we can ignore the libs whose sole (not to be confused with 'soul') purpose is to be hateful and mean spirited.”

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:28 AM
So far, each of these idiot's posts… absolutely no substance or intelligence...”

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:36 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:40 AM
It was a quote! "Intelligent people can recognize a weak argument, no such hope for a fool."

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:44 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 12:50 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 1:00 AM
“No one is going to bother with your silly youtube links. So peddle your little silliness someplace else.”

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 1:03 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 1:13 AM Nothing there

Sunday, November, 04, 2007 1:14 AM
These fools must HATE it when they've been "found out" or "exposed" for the fools they really are...


*****BubbaZ Sunday, November, 04, 2007 8:23 AM
Anne: "But, what they can't tolerate is that the truth is bigger and stronger then they are."

Anne, you've posted a lot about 'idiots' and 'fools' but actually contributed nothing to the debate.


For Anne
It wasn't just "video vs. live".

All the other "pastors"*** I mentioned (except for Dinakaran, whom LEF members in India oft criticise) I have actually heard live and analysed the message. You can hear them video/audio through links from those sites I posted.



***LEF does not use this title (nor any ordinations), but all of the functions thereof are generally done by local worship-leaders.

For Solo610: don't bother answering that bully-shill viradh (apt renaming, from a minor villain of just such description in Ramayan) as he will only understand truth about a week after I understand North American "football"!

Anne, the hypocrite
"What's interesting is that it's usually the athiests, agnotstics, and non-believers who tend to fly off the handle and need to use insults and name calling... "

And yet that's pretty much all you've done in every post here. The rational thinkers are 'dumb', 'stupid', 'idiots', 'hateful' according to you.

Anne, you're a hypocrite, you're dishonest and you're a coward.

That's not name-calling, that's a statement of fact.

Doug is right ...

My family and I watch the TV archives of Rev. Billy Graham; he wasn't a feel-good prophet.

Feel-good prophets are misleading. I'll put my life in God's hands and let Him make the decisions for my life, instead of trying to do it on my own.

Excellent article, Doug. Thanks and five stars

Well the fact is
viruddh writes:
Hey Giles
That was the old Billy Graham.
---------

Billy may have changed, but its certain God hasn't.
Nor has His Judgment on sin

what would happen
if every preacher, priest etc took Gile's advice and preached accordingly?

The country, luke warm christians and agnostic; atheists, jews and others would become as devout and act as the religious people here posting. Wow. If that is the case the United States would not be recognizable anymore if the forefathers came down.

Do you think it would happen if Giles advice were followed

viruddh
Yeah thats what we need, more lukewarm preaching. Feel free to head to your local library and pick up the latest Olsteen book, you deserve to be rich and happy. Men like Spurgeon and Billy Sunday packed out churches with conviction vice the community clubs churches have become today. The world is in the worst state it has ever been morally. Drugs, alcohol, homosexuality, fornication, materialism, these things are bigger than ever. We have become hedonists, our children will pay the price.

Hey Giles
That was the old Billy Graham. Have you heard
him preach recently. He has matured as he got \
older and so did his religion. He finally
reached that place where God is the one you
would WANT to spend an eternity with, rather the
one who is your worst nightmare.

KOB
You keep thinking so. It shakes my faith none that someone rejects Christ. The scriptures predict such, it just saddens me.

Yo "Knight"
I checked out the website and stopped reading after seeing the first two of the author's contradictions to be wrong. It's obvious he doesn't do a good job of exegesis.

And don't forget
Able. Christ spoke of himself as the "Son of Man". Take note, the first son of man rose up against the second son of man and killed him. Why, his sacrifice was acceptable to God. There was power in his blood. Because the second son of man did this, he was cast out of the land.

What happened to the Jews in 70?

Expound Truth
The prolong of days in Isiah 53 is speaking of exactly that, but the seed are spiritual. The Church is the seed of Christ, John 3:6. That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit.

KOB, sorry, I didn't answer your question, I would appeal to the attempted sacrifice of Isaac. This is a good metaphor of the sacrifice to come. Abraham offered his son to God, God returned the favor. Also see Zechariah 13:7, Daniel 9:26. I marvel how you can see Isiah 53:10 speaking of the guilt offering as metaphor in light of the other scriptures.

Mellor/Gestell
MellorSJ2 writes: Sunday, November, 04, 2007 10:28 PM
Absolutely frightening
Gestell, your post of 9:22 PM is perhaps the most scary post I've read, and as you know, there are a lot of scary people here. Of course, your post explains them."

That post was spot on, 100 percent correct. I know im not the only one who feels that way.

knight_of_baawa
"Handwaving" "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"--Inigo Montoya :)

It is encouraging that you are basing your arguments on Jewish religious scholarship--I was under the impression that you discounted all perspectives that have God as a foundation.


Please keep in mind that the fact that the arguments you present come from a Jewish website gives them no special validity. The scriptures of prophecies made 2-4 thousand years ago can be divided by both Jew and Gentile depending upon the scholarship involved in studying both the language and the culture of the time. The scriptures you indicated are not surprises to Christian scholars and have been adequately (at least for myself) dealt with centuries before you posted them here. It would be an exercise in futility to argue them with you.

Please also keep in mind that the Christian faith is not based on any one or two scriptures that you can attempt to refute. Christians have reasons based in morality, history and historical details of the life of Christ and his miracles, we have arguments in fulfilled prophecy--You'll also need to look up the Jewish refutations of Psalm 22 and Daniel 9-- We have sound evidence for the historical reliability of the Gospels and Christ's own interpretations of the prophecies. These and other evidences all work together to build a strong persuasive case for Christianity. You may not buy it. Fair enough. But I have to say--based on my own casual perusings of Townhall-- that you seem to have a rather obessive absorbtion of attempting to refute Christianity that borders on the bizarre--I wonder why? Oh, well, perhaps I'm wrong.

Absolutely frightening
Gestell, your post of 9:22 PM is perhaps the most scary post I've read, and as you know, there are a lot of scary people here. Of course, your post explains them.

PC Religion and atheists
Yuppers! PC religions are not working. Priests and pastors don't preach about sit. And we sit and watch and never say anything when Christianity is attacked by the mindless. Ah God is good.

KOB
I have already seen these arguments and found them wanting.

Isiah predicts: 29:10: For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep. He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And he has covered your heads, the seers. 11: And the entire vision shall be unto you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to one who is learned, saying read this, he will say, "I cannot, for it is sealed."

skipping to 14 for space: 14 Therefore behold, I will once again deal marvelously with this people, The wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the discernment of their discerning men shall be concealed."

Now why would I seek the council of the above folks on matters revieled by Christ?

Skip to 18: And on that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book, and out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind shall see.

Why would one sinner such as me be given the eyes to see?

Good article
The church today is as lukewarm as the Bible tells us it would be. After putting some thought into it i can see that what Doug has written is true. Never have i felt so inspired to read philosophy, theology, evolutionary biology etc... Everytime
KOB,or Mellor goes off on another "look at me debunk the Christians" type rant i find it encourages me to find the answers to the questioning they put out.

Id encourage fellow Christians to use them as a learning tool. Their responses will show you that they question everything and offer no answers. Anyone can sound like they have a clue when they just spit questions out.
You will also pick up on some answers to culture issues. Is being gay a choice? (Of course) Their answers, or lack thereof rather, will serve to strengthen your faith.

Kilowatt + days prolong
__Just a question from me here, along with an answer that I know is True. Are not your days prolonged by the offspring you bring into the world? Your mark is on them, a part of them for ever, just has the mark, a part of your ancestry is with you today. I can say for a fact that life continues beyond death of the body, and that life depends on how the body is treated. The one that carries you, and gives you the ability to interact with others. It is only a temporary body that carries within it the ability to choose for self, and others. With all the other forms of life on this planet, no other has this ability to choose each others destiny. We all are of One, but many choose for one, themselves. Think of it has an energy, and a source of energy, everyone of us has, and has in common. It cannot be seen, though science has measured parts of its quantity. Its enormous and the Word told us its benefit when used responsibly.

reply to SteveL
For most American conservatives, religious issues are the very core of politics. This is hardly a new idea, but it is one that is taken very seriously. For Christian conservatives, it is essential that they--and we--believe the right doctrines, for these are essential not only for individual salvation but for the good of society. They believe that, at bottom, the US was ordained by God, and that all good things in American society revolve around Christian truths. You probably know G.K. Chesterton's famous characterization of the US as a "nation with the soul of a church." He was absolutely on target.

There are, of course, people who think they are political conservatives who also are not believers. There are comparatively few of them, however. Bill Buckley long ago said that while it was an empirical possibility for someone to be both conservative and atheist, it wasn't very likely.

So I understand why all of these amateur theologians and Bible scholars (and they are REALLY amateur--hardly any biblical or theological literacy in the bunch) post on TH. The truths of religion are for them the truths of politics. That's the American way.

Leviticus 7:2
In this place where they "slay" the burnt offering, they are to "slay" the guilt offering, and he shall sprinkle its blood around on the alter:

Now Isiah 53:10 states the servant will rinder himself a guilt offering.

How does he lawfully do this without being killed? How are his days going to be prolonged withour resurection?

Ron: You got THAT right!
.

Knight of Baawa
Of course it is just.

God said so, and God is the author of justice just as He is the author of electromagnetism.

Devut Agnstic writes:Like ONE possessed
And whom has no future here... EXCEPT for the ONE to whom you have confessed!

KOB
Your take on Isiah 53 is the new Jewish one, not the one of the Jews expecting a comming Messiah believed. Tell me if you can when the Jews were killed off and rose again as 53:10 predicts?

Exorcists Needed
God teaches us to hate evil. The Left prohibit us to do so because they are evil.

Any law or teaching that prevent us from hating evil is itself evil.

Love your enemies but not the demons which have possessed the man. Drive them out first!

Ron writes: To ONE and all....
A prayer on behalf and for JC...

To all whom traverse these hallowed HALLS be tasked ...
TO deny all transgressors ...except (WISDOM) ... I ASK
For that is ONE whom may yet be saved...
and has taken first step from unsaved grave.
To those whom my words are not over their heads...
say your prayers...ASK STILL for WISDOM...and sleep safe in your beds!
Good night my friends... all

Might as well be
_baawa writes: 7:17 PM
Deserveth?
What is this--1611?
--------

I loveth it

What about
nogods writes: Sunday, November, 04, 2007 10:30 AM
There is no god
What a load of garbage Mr. Giles has written, Christianity is no more than the 'melding' of Pagan beliefs which were present at the time of its birth. The bible was written by the lackeys of early Christian priests to give the belief more 'authority',

This accusation may be partialy correct, after all, Abraham was from UR of the Caldieans. But tell me, how is it all these "stories" paint a parable like picture of Christian theology? Did the pagans do this by mistake?

Take the life of Joseph as an example. Here we have a character who saves the known world through a dream. After being rejected by his brothers, sold at the price of a slave, he became great amoung the gentiles. Now compare his life with the life of Christ and Christian theology.

The Old Testament is the dream, The New the interepetation of the dream. Christ fulfilled this role to a T. Tell me O wise one. Was it those crafty apositles who pulled off this trick, or was it the pagans?


knight_of_baawa writes: Inversely!
All of ... what you ... vomited

no bs artist writes:fearful of fire&brim
Does thou fearish too much!

Fire and Brimstone
This type of fire and brimstone nonsense is totally medieval! What does Reverend Douggie plan for an encore--public burnings in the town square of all heritics and non-believers? (Maybe Douggie will bring the marshmellows and make s'mores over a crackling fire). Ahhhh there's nothing like the smell of barbecuing athiests, heritics, non-Christians and other Godless infidels in the morning, right. Heck even Billy Graham has sort of abandoned his old fire and brimstone message--it seemed just too dated and well, so Elmer Gantry. I guess Billy Graham is wimping out in his old age.

See what happens when religious zealotry runs amok? This my God is better than your God is plain batcrap nuts. Praise the Lord and pass the wood for burning those infidels!!!!! Maybe Douggie can apply for the new cabinet level post of Grand Inquisitor.

"Biblical Contradictions"
It appears to me, from a quick glance at the list of Biblical "contradictions" posted by BubbaZ, that most of them are disingenuous. Apparently the idea of a metaphor is something the author of this list never heard of. Much of the Bible is poetic, and it is necessary to understand the literary practices of ancient Hebrew Scribes in order to understand some of the expressions.

As to some of the common objections I get to the Gospels: the time of the Crucifixion is different in John's Gospel because he was writing to a Roman audience, and they had a different system of time than the Jews; the two geneologies of Christ are representative of His two earthly parents (we should also note that these lists are not exhaustive, and unimportant forebears are often skipped); some of the chronologies in the Gospels are different because Jewish writers of the day arranged their stories thematically more than chronologically; and the number of angels mentioned at the tomb does not denote the TOTAL number of angels that were there.

Finally, the Bible is 66 books written by 49 authors from a wide variety of nations and cultures, over a period of millenia. To interpret their meaning based on our 21st century perspective is very bad scholarship. The majority of the "contradictions" wither up when examined in depth, taking into account the writer's culture, his audience, and the historical context of the writings.

NevadaDad:Spend not your time on Knights
...Whom will not quest! He has fallen and deservith not your grace!

What Billy Might Say
I would LOVE to hear Billy Graham speak on divorce back then vs. the way it is spoken of now,
Oh, well, er, its not spoken of now at all.

The recent declaration by Bill Hybels that the seeker format had failed is huge. And Rick Warren is right there with him friend.

Check divorce rates in willow creek association churches, wow are they higher.

Anne: Does TEL attack his own D_A....
I think not! Because NOT his OWN ...you maybe being played...NOT by D_A!

"Prosperity Gospel" was inevitible
No matter where the Gospel is preached, it is constantly under pressure from the dominant cultural beliefs. In various parts of the world we see efforts to mix Christianity with Buddhism, voodoo, paganism, or whatever the overriding culture believes in.

The US culture is all about prosperity and self-actualization, and so the Church is under tremendous pressure to appease that segment of society. I think that this is the belief system that is most antithetical to the Gospel. At least those who worship other gods know that they are doing so.

I seem to remember Christ saying something about how we cannot "serve both God and mammon". We now have people who think that they serve God BY serving mammon. Scary stuff.

Intellectual dishonesty?
Intellectual dishonesty is to have one's entire identity wrapped up in being the inverse of something else: "hi, I'm not-a-theist. I've achieved the rank of self-appointed knight."

Intellectual dishonesty is to insist that to cite any part of Newton as an example is an all-or-nothing proposition. (Fine, please immediately cease employing F=ma or anything branch of science involving integral or derivative calculus for its explanation...remember, accepting any part of his contributions mandate that you accept everyting the man believed)

Intellectual dishonesty is to mistake a URL for proof of anything.

Itellectual dishonesty is to believe that nobody sees through the hyperbole in post after post, the empty bravado behind "blantant assertion" or "prove it" or "fairy tale."

Intellectual dishonesty is to think that the speed of light is c to all oberservers regardless of reference frame, but that nothing similar exists regarding moral absolutes that are true regardless of reference frame. That only scientific truth exists - not moral truth.

Intellecutal dishonesty is to call people liars whenever you become frustrated.

And intellectual dishonesty is to re-write history to suit one's ideology, insisting that civilization has progressed and will progress only to the degree that Christianty and theism is rejected.

That, dear reader, is intellectual dishonesty.

TheLeftIsEvil: You?

Don't think so! :-) Did I miss something?






Approximately ten years ago…

over a period of about two weeks, I happened to see a number of interviews with a Dr. Epstein who is a pediatric surgeon.

Dr. Epstein’s claim to “fame” was that he operated on children who had the worst possible problems, often beyond the scope or ability of many other pediatric surgeons. Dr. Epstein was the last hope of many of these children, and without Dr. Epstein, these children had no hope.

One interviewer happened to as Dr. Epstein if, after constantly seeing the worst cases, and poor innocent children, did he ever ask why?

Dr. Epstein’s answer was very profound. He said, “Yes! I sometimes wondered if there was a God. And then I realized that it was okay to ask why as long as you don’t demand an answer.”

Think about it!



Anne
"You can always tell by the number of posts by non-believers, and the vicious, vile, hateful rhetoric of their posts!"

Moi?

Must have been a real turkey....
Anne: "You can always tell by the number of posts by non-believers, and the vicious, vile, hateful rhetoric of their posts!"
----------------------
Then this must have been an abject failure, as there is little in the way of rhetoric which rises to the level of standard Christian viciousness.

Indeed, no one wants to explain why they have done nothing to combat corrupt televangelists in their midst, despite their obligation to do so under Jas. 4:17. Nor can they reconcile Jesus' continuing inability to punish sin with their assertion that he actually punishes sin.

Devout Agnostic
"I do live in San Diego though.....

Was God sending those fires to scare me I wonder?

Gotta go repent I guess!"


Begin Vikings fan gloat mode/

No, God sent the Minnesota Vikings to trounce your Chargers 35-17

AND to give Adrian Peterson the NFL one-game record for rushing. Can you say 296 yards? I knew you could. Beat the previous record by 1 yard.

Clearly, you do need to go repent.

End Vikings fan gloat mode/

:) AND my high school football team is going to State! Life is good for philosophical agnosticism.

Doug; Excellent column! Well written!!!!

And, of course, spot on!!! :-)

How can you tell?

You can always tell by the number of posts by non-believers, and the vicious, vile, hateful rhetoric of their posts!




Ah, the P C Pastors, and Flock
__They tithe the mint, for their own prosperity. On their way to worship, drive right by the homeless, and shake their heads. All the while holding tightly that 10th, or claimed 10th, to go into the collection plate. To build grand cathedrals to show glory of the word. A P C Flock gathering for the word. A word with a low case w, has the Word of God is being used for self profit. The Left love them for it, has a thief will always do good in the eyes of a thief. You will hear them cry, in response to such insults, not true, not true. We donate to many around the world, start churches, and feed the poor. I say to them, look around, you wouldn't help your neighbor, and the reason you give is, "He is not of our congregation." Their self love has blinded them, and has cost this nation many souls.

Please Teach Pure Christian Doctrine
Being a disbeliever, I strongly encourage y'all to start teaching the meat & potatos of Christianity. For instance when Ann Coulter correctly pointed out that 9/11 being the fault of gays and other sinners is "basic Christian doctrine"-- as if that makes it less despicable.

It is not moral for Jesus Christ to make innocents suffer because approximately 4% of their countrymen are gay, anymore than it was correct for Bill Clinton to blame it on the mistreatment of Indians, but please keep preaching it.

Please preach the basic Christian doctrine that anyone who won't grovel before Jesus, regardless of how wonderful they are, must spend eternity burning in hell. Such an evil doctrine is core to your faith and should be proclaimed-- it will cause even more people to actually think about Christianity.

Please preach that we are evil because Adam & Eve ate forbidden fruit and because we were conceived through coital relations. It's immoral for Jesus to condemn us all to hell for what Adam & Eve supposedly did 6,000 years ago.

Please preach the magnificence of suffering and how Jesus cares about your obedience and groveling, rather than our happiness. Great guy your Jesus!

The reason Dougie doens't hear preachers hitting these core doctrines anymore is that people are thinking rationally about them and rejecting them.

P.S. It's funny to hear a guy who does Tae Kwon Do call someone "Nancy boy".

P.C. Pastors Lead Us to Hell
Great commentary! I call them P.C. Pulpit Pimps!
--Linda

KOB
You made a sweeping generalization about Christians and IQ, words like "normally" notwithstanding.

So, once again: prove it.

Newton
Uh, where is it written that by citing Newton as an example of high IQ and strong Christian beliefs, I agree with all of his ideas. Yes, I'm aware he spent his latter years futilely searching for the location of the Garden of Eden. And it is easy with 21st century hindsight to mock the lead-to-gold idea, but I'm not sure this was exactly obvious at the time, since Newton lived before the periodic table or modern atomic theory.

My point was simply that the man contributed what is widely regarded as the most important scientific and mathematical treatise ever written - he independently invented an entire branch of mathematics to explain planetary motions - and he was also a Christian.

Would you seriously assert that they guy had a sub-standard IQ?

And, since we are on the subject, how about your favorite line when it comes to the inverse correlation between strength of Christian belief and IQ: prove it.

And let's assume hypothetically that such a correlation exists. What exactly does it prove? That the IQ of the individual is the arbiter of what is and is not true?

Driven by hatred
Hey fellow believers,

Understand where unbelievers come from and what the bible has to say about them.

Their minds have been darkened.
The message of the gospel is the stench of death in those who are perishing.

The reason there is so much hatred towards Christians is because we tout God as a loving, perfect being.

1) They hate God. More than likely because they see Him as sovereign so they blame Him for all the bad that has happened in their lives. But in God's Sovereignty, He has given the earth to man. Psalm 115. To choose live or death. To choose good and evil.

2) They hate Christians because we tell people of a loving, merciful, gracious God. This infuriates them as they blame God for all their ills. When the truth is, they are still living under the curse.

All the hatred, all that vitriol will consume them. It will literally eat them alive. With condemnation heaped upon condemnation. They are in the matrix and don't know it. They are enslaved and don't know it. They are blind but think they see. This is by far the very worst condition man can get himself into. These people need our prayers. They need to be set free from this ending cycle of hate and despair.

All the talk and debate in the world can not free them. Only prayer.

KOB
Your problem isn't that you don't ask good questions.

Your problem is that you arrogantly believe you are the only one asking them. Or that the only question we Christians wrestle with is "Why do bad things happen to good people."

Or that we avoid being honest about these things, or that we are too intellectually inferior to actually write about them.

Sure we see things in the Bible that puzzle us. And it takes a bit more than a drive-by to reconcile things like Ex 20 with Ez 18. But your answer to all of this is to simply conclude that God is a figment and the Bible is a fairy tale.

As H.L. Mencken said, "For every complex problem there is a simple answer. And it's wrong."

Atheism is an exceedingly simple answer. Time will ultimately tell whether it is wrong, but I believe that it is - not purely on faith, but also on the logical and scientific quandries that it presents. I also believe there are many ways to prove the veracity of Scripture - not the least of which is to try and explain away the hundreds of prophecies concerning Christ that were issued thousands of years in advance by diverse divine writers. It can be dismissed, sure, but not in an intellectually factual manner.

I will grant you this: much of Christiandom is inhabited by infants who refuse to grow up, who aren't ever asked the hard questions by their leadership because they are too busy dealing with Christianity 101 like "can I sleep with my boyfriend?", who relegate their Christianity to the same plane as a Tony Robbins seminar, and who prefer breast milk to meat. I think this is precisely what Giles is getting at. Although I don't always like his style, or his tiresome alliteration, or using adjectives that are mostly for show and seem to be chosen from an online thesaurus rather than his native vocabulary - I think it is a well-deserved rebuke for what passes today as "the church."


I am saying a Prayer for you
Fake Marine cus Wobbee ses sew writes: Sunday, November, 04, 2007 2:45 PM
Good night all
It's past my bed time so I must leave.
But first I just want to say THANK YOU ALL, FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND PRAYERS. They mean more to us than you can possibly know.

We're winning here in more ways than one. It's just too bad the MSM refuses to report it, at least from what I've been able to see.


Semper Fidelis, and God Bless the U.S.A.

----------

Marine
I am asking the Lord Jesus Christ to send His angel to Keep you safe in Him.

Keep this Psalm in mind.


91:1
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty

talent scout: I hear you...


"I do this to honor the truth of Doug's Article."

And I'm behind you... Bless you.





Is it just me?
Or is talent scout getting crazier?

I can almost hear the elongated vowels and the never-ending cadence of his sentences. In writing, the craziness manifests itself in a Germanic use of capital letters, as in: "I am here to show God has already Judged all men by Jesus Christ anyway, and they just fulfill the Promise of the wicked."

I reckon by the time 'Wicked' has an initial cap. the transformation to loon will be complete.

Really! Does talent scout actually think these rants have any meaning?

I do not worry or care
About these you mention Anne.
I do this to honor the truth of Doug's Article.


---------
Anne writes: Sunday, November, 04, 2007 2:31 PM
Talent Scout: You're wasting your time!

-------
ts
Those few fools mean nothing to me and let them alone, and let them rage on, who cares.

I am here to show God has already Judged all men by Jesus Christ anyway, and they just fulfill the Promise of the wicked.

They also have a Promise from God.
And they make their choice, and choose to find the death and destruction that awaits all men who will not HEAR the Word of the Lord.

Yes, thank goodness for Atheists
Once again, KOB's superior intellect rescues us all.

The meaning of the universe?

There is none.

This statement, apparently, exists as the definitive Q.E.D. to an Atheist. It requires no proof. It exists by the divine fiat of our resident "intellectual" who now has statistical proof that low IQs and Christianity are correlated.

Good thing Isaac Newton didn't know that.

No fear?
You have been identified and Judged of God.


Romans 3:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

You have no wisdom


Pr 1:7 -
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Yet it is the sinner whose heart is filled with fear, and the righteous as bold as a lion.

Lu 12:5 -
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

The devil himself is filled with this fear, as is the heart of the sinner, who is so foolish to use his mouth for his own destruction and claim he has no fear.

God mocks the mockers

Pr 1:26 -
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Talent Scout: You're wasting your time!

Unfortunately, they're pretty much a gang of childish bullies who, as I said earlier, are here only to denigrate, insult, and besmirch anything and everyone they don't agree with.

Of course, the real irony is that these are the same folks (liberals, etc.) who claim to be SOOOOO tolerant...

Right! And they call us "intolerant!"












Positive Thinking
Ummmmmm Douggie, have you heard of a truly saintly man who was also a minister named Rev. Norman Vincent Peale? He was the one who discovered the Power of Positive Thinking in case you've forgotten. His books about positive thinking and positive living still continue to inspire people worldwide. Peale used religion to help people, not scare them to death with visions of hell because they've had trouble or make mistakes. I guess only Douggie will pass through the pearly gates in the end--the rest of us imperfect souls are going to wind up in Dante's inferno.

Jesus Christ Himself
Was called names, just as the fools do today, and mock all that is Holy and Rightous.

Their folly will find them, the poor fools.

Matthew 11:
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation?

It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.

But wisdom is justified of her children.


Yes, thank goodness for Atheists
because we Christian are all too brain dead to ask really hard questions, and -- Lord knows -- we're totally exempt from life.

We never ask "why?" after losing a 2-year-old to cancer, watching them struggle and succumb in the oncology ward while guys like Idi Amin live to a ripe old age. We never see cheaters prosper or liars assume the mantle of CEO or Senator or Televangelist. We never see the injustices of life and question why God allows it all. We never lose our jobs or our health or our loved ones or our joy or our children or our spouses or our reputation, are never falsely accused, never wonder how a thief on the cross could accept Christ and be seemingly destined for the same eternity as a John the Baptist. We never ponder why the book of Job is in the Bible and what it really means.

No, we never ask questions like that - we're too bovine.

And of course God is too chicken to actually admit to any of the universe’s seeming contradictions - He's got a reputation to maintain. I guess that's why HE PUT ALL OF THIS HARD STUFF IN WRITING. So we Christians could ignore it and rely on Atheists to ask the really hard questions - because the Bible certainly doesn't address any of it. Nope, the book of Job, Ps 88, Ps 73:2-16, Heb 11:36-40 – that’s all to be ignored.

Yes, thank goodness for the Atheist who asks the really hard questions that us grass-eaters are too stupid to ever ask or ponder.

It takes no courage to have faith in a God we can’t totally understand. To continue walking with Him when He is silent in our darkest hours. When He tells us we will never suffer more than we can bear and we are sure he is WRONG. Good thing our IQs are lower than the rest so we will suffer mindlessly and never ask “why” or have to muster up any semblance of courage or perseverance.

So yes, thank goodness for the Atheist who has assumed the mantle of doing all the hard thinking for us.

God will not be mocked
Devout Agnostic writes: 1:34 PM
Thanks Talent Scout
You remind me why I'm not Christian!

MY god is not so wrathful!

She is quite forgiving and nurturing as a matter of fact...
------

ts:
So guess what?

He Himself has said this to YOU.

Mock on , your day is short to do so.


Luke 13
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



Ga 6:7 -
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Your god rewards sin
dbz77: "God is just, which is why He chooses to punish sin."
---------------------------
Toropupu.

This guy (http://www.boblarsonfanclub.tk) has been conning Christians out of millions for forty years (see an amusing video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75TsvDIzIZc) despite proof of adultery, fraud, and simony because Christians (a) have room-temperature I.Q.s and can't recognize a con-artist when they see one, and (b) don't have the courage to take a principled stand on a bet.

So, where has Jesus been all these years? Too busy being dead or molesting young boys on the golf course to punish sin?

Doug writes:
Graham hammered home all the above without an apology or some befuddled explanation. . . let’s see . . . um . . . fear. Yeah, that’s it—fear. The fear of God.
--------

I remember those days, and still hear it preached where I go.

Many preaching the gospel today were NEVER called of God to Preach, they were called to prach by their mothers or fathers.

They have turned the Faith of Jesus Christ into a fairy tale and child like game.
The Gospel Jesus Christ brought to this earth is SACRED.
And given the MEN! to Preach.
Not the wimps who have turned it into fear of wickedness as they give into it evil from all across the world.
Jesus Christ did NOT call the educated men of His day to preach, He called Rough men, men who knew the real world, fishermen, hard working and bare knuckled truth seekers.

Leave the hurt feelings to the women and children to worry about and Preach the TRUTH.
God HATES sin and wickedness.
And He is not playing games with any man.

Jesus showed more anger at the hypocrites than he ever did the sinners.
He came to deliver the sinner and rebuke the liars of religion, who use it for personal gain as they do politics.
The hypocrites children of the Pharisees are now in the pulpits all across America, ruled by the feelings of women and children.

Enough to gag a maggot.

Ps 7:11 -
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

I can HEAR Jesus Christ today saying this to all the Church's across America.


Matthew 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men



It's about your failings, Mo
Mo: "It grieves me when I see people who call themselves Christians behave in ways that bring shame to the name of Jesus Christ. (And it's always amazing to me that these are the people who get the attention, not the countless others who do try to live lives worthy of that name.)"
---------------------
It's about your failings, Mo. You have an obligation to do more than just be "grieved."

Cleaning out the Aegean Stables
Anne: "You mean to say that your questionable or bad behavior is ALWAYS somebody elses fault?"
-----------------
What "questionable or bad behavior?"

A: "So, what I said earlier is true. Your goal is to debunk and ridicule because you don't like what Christians think and believe?"
-----------------
I don't care overmuch as to whether you think (I've had my doubts about most Christians) or believe. What I care about is your inability to adequately police your own, juxtaposed against your insistence upon policing society as a whole.

A: "Mature, grown up, intelligent people usually take responsibility for THEIR OWN behavior... good, bad, or indifferent, regardless of how they percieve other's behavior!!!
-----------------
I am responsible for my own behavior; as long as you insist upon imposing your morals on society, you are responsible for your brothers' behavior.

How is it that Christians can be so stupid as to continue to support a guy like Bob Lar$on?

BubbaZ
God is just, which is why He chooses to punish sin.

And sinners who do not repent will be tortured forever and ever in the lake of fire - ultimate justice!

God Is Lord of Lords and King of Kings
All who defy Him will be tormented with fire and brimstone, the smoke of their torment will arise forever and ever, and they shall have no rest day nor night.

I love that scripture
And also love those that love God.
I despise fools, liars, cheaters, the ungodliness of the wicked.

--------

Devout Agnostic writes: 12:56 PM
Talent Scout

Since you appear to be so fond of biblical quotes, here is one PERFECT for you....


"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling (1 Peter 4:8-9).”
--------

I love and hold all Godly men and women in the highest of respect and honor, a path way to high for a fool.

I have some scriptures for you.

Ro 11:22 -
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
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I obey this and look not only at the goodness of God, I behold and FEAR! the wrath of God.

Ro 1:18 -
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Ro 2:5 -
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Ro 9:22 -
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Eph 5:6 -
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Re 16:1 -
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Billy Graham
Years ago, while under US Navy compulsion to attend Sunday chapel, I was subjected to one of Billy's fire and brimstone harangues. I was sitting right near the front where I could get a good view of Billy's tonsils as he yelled. If nothing else in my life convinced me that I wanted nothing to do with Christianity, suffering through that did.

To the mods
I refreshed, and the dupes disappeared.

To the mods
Why are almost all of our posts duplicates today? I'm sure I and everyone else only clicked on each of our posts once?

for MellorSJ2
MellorSJ2 writes: "Happily, they're so busy arguing about magic underwear or the validity of some sect or other that they can't do much damage."

They are unwittingly distorting both the GOP and the conservative movement in America. Talk about killing with kindness.

James Dobson let the cat out of the bag: He said he wouldn't mind if the GOP lost the next election--as long as the Christian evangelicals' clout within the GOP is not diminished.

As someone who thinks this country would be worse off with Hillary in the White House, that attitude distresses me.

Learn the Law of Nature
Its unyeilding and not up for a vote, nor can it be abolished, or amended by mankind.


With God, there is no division in Natural Law and Spiritual Law.

Amos 5:




10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.

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This verse sums it up
Keep preaching it Doug


10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.





Job 20:5 -
That the triumphing of the wicked is short



Job 21:17 -
How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
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Here is the Law of Nature, from Natures God.

If you think God is all about love, you got a new thought a thinking.

Here
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Job 27:


11 I will teach you by the hand of God: that which is with the Almighty will I not conceal.

12 Behold, all ye yourselves have seen it; why then are ye thus altogether vain?

13 This is the portion of a wicked man with God, and the heritage of oppressors, which they shall receive of the Almighty.

14 If his children be multiplied, it is for the sword: and his offspring shall not be satisfied with bread.

15 Those that remain of him shall be buried in death: and his widows shall not weep.

16 Though he heap up silver as the dust, and prepare raiment as the clay;

17 He may prepare it, but the just shall put it on, and the innocent shall divide the silver.

18 He buildeth his house as a moth, and as a booth that the keeper maketh.

19 The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not.

20 Terrors take hold on him as waters, a tempest stealeth him away in the night.

21 The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth: and as a storm hurleth him out of his place.

22 For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand.

23 Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place.

Why are we even discussing this?
Anne claims: "It's NOT about us, it IS about GOD."

Then what is it doing here on townhall.com???

townhall.com is a website and forum for discussing politics, not theology.

townhall.com is an Internet forum for discussing issues of *us humans,* not God. It's about what direction WE set for our country and the world; it's not about the wrath of God descending to make things right.

Doug Giles may ridicule discussing prosperity, success and our future. But THAT is what townhall.com, like ALL political blogs, is supposed to be about. It's much more about those things than it is about the wrath of God.

Remember: Billy Graham did NOT run for national office. His agenda is not the agenda of townhall.com

kob
There is no point arguing with you because you don't argue. You say white is black or green or fuchsia whatever you like. I really hope one day you find the truth.

God bless.


What do you mean? Part 4
This is one of the many reasons I am a philosophical agnostic AND a PROUD American. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who purports to KNOW God, knows ONLY his or her mental model of some supposed deity. Dennett (in the same chapter of the book I cited above) refers to the ‘belief in the belief in God’: The belief that belief in God is a good thing, whether one shares it or not, or shares the same belief in the same God or not. Dennett says the belief in the belief in God is clearly widespread in America. I don’t share that belief, but million do. If this and all of the above that I told you are true, then fundamentalist Christians may have to face a hard fact (for them): That the ONLY common denominator for the concept of “Christian” in America is the mere belief in the belief in God. And that this belief is continually fracturing into millions of semi-similar images in millions of American minds as each new American generation grows up and grows old here. And if these assertions are true, what’s all this hullabaloo about KNOWING God or not, BEING saved or not, BELIEVING in the inerrancy of the Bible or not?

Perhaps it all means something important metaphysically. As a philosophical agnostic, I seriously doubt it. But with American pluralism of belief as incomprehensibly varied as it is, “Christian” must mean nothing at all politically now…if it ever meant anything politically in the past.

What do you mean? Part 3
Much of this religious pluralism amongst Americans springs directly out of America’s much vaunted political freedom. For IF you believe that it is good and just that every American have the right to draw their own conclusions on political issues and ideological beliefs, THEN you MUST [strong philosophical recommendatory syllogism] also believe that it is good and just that every American have the right to draw their own conclusions on matters of religious belief. A separate catechism for each American. And since leading Americans has been accurately described as like trying to herd cats, American religious freedom WILL AUTOMATICALLY LEAD to what are in effect millions of American religions, mental models of what Life is, how the Universe came to be, and how Everything works, and what God is. Quite a kettle of fish for fundamentalists here, eh? American reality poses quite the dilemma for those of you who truly believe that only if we are One nation under One God, can we live long and prosper under the kind and loving ministrations of that One Particular God.

And FMcWss, take a peek at HH's blog

"Bravo, Fred Thompson" They're coming out of the woodwork there too.


Hey FMcWss: How right you are!

I was just about to take a look at Pastore's column. No doubt they're over there in droves.

So, how's things in fake Iraq??? Huh? :-)

CharlieS had a few good observations on Buckley's column yesterday. Did you see?



What do you mean? Part 2
Dennett goes on to assert that American religious leaders engage in a marketing approach that American’s major corporations are very familiar with. Wolfe notes that the term ‘sanctuary’ is shunned by one church, not because of its political connotations, but because of its religious connotations (?!?). Mega-church leaders make sure there are plenty of parking spaces and babysitting services rather than close attention paid to Bible interpretation. Wolfe’s interviewees reveal “that revision of tradition is often hard to distinguish from outright rejection. A derisive term has been coined by these memetic engineers to describe the image they are trying hard to shed: ‘churchianity.’” (p. 225)

The loose ways of mega-churches leads to many other questions that should REALLY trouble Giles and his colleagues at Townhall.com who believe America was and still is a Christian nation: How many American Christians are still out there? If you count noses of everyone who CLAI