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Tuesday, October 02, 2007
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Columbia's Bollinger Meant Well; Liberals Often Do
by Dennis Prager
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What would you rather watch?

The president of Columbia University, Lee Bollinger, really gave it to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He really did. He called Ahmadinejad a "petty and cruel dictator" and many other harsh names. All richly deserved. And it is likely that President Bollinger felt that he had done a good thing.

In fact, however, as many of us predicted, it was Ahmadinejad who won. The very moment the Iranian Holocaust-denier was given a university platform, he won. Even the deserved insults gave Ahmadinejad a victory. Most people do not like their leaders publicly insulted abroad, even if they agree with most of the insults. I thought little of President Bill Clinton, but if a foreign university president had invited him for a speech and insulted him -- even if I agreed with the content of the insults -- I would have been offended as an American. And Iranians are more nationalistic and place more emphasis on saving face.

It is not difficult to imagine how the average Iranian viewed Ahmadinejad's visit to America. Not only the average Iranian: According to Mohsen Mirdamadi, one of Iran's leading reformist politicians, "The blistering speech against Ahmadinejad only strengthened him back home and made his radical supporters more determined."

But this does not matter to Lee Bollinger and his liberal defenders. What matters to them is feeling good -- feeling good about demonstrating Columbia's commitment to freedom of speech (if an invitation to speak at Columbia is a function of freedom of speech, such freedom rarely applies to conservative speakers), and feeling good about criticizing Ahmadinejad. Contemporary liberalism is about feelings, from compassion as the basis of social policy to the promotion of the self-esteem movement.

He and his supporters are mistaken, however.

In case it is not obvious how damaging Columbia's invitation to Ahmadinejad was, ask yourself whether inviting any other Holocaust-denier to Columbia would have been a good or bad idea. The answer is so clear that it may take an Ivy League Ph.D. to miss it. The net result of Ahmadinejad's visit to Columbia University was to render Holocaust-denial a little more respectable -- "more research on the Holocaust" will make sense to some people; and that's all Ahmadinejad and other Holocaust-deniers say they are asking for. So, too, the elimination of Israel seemed slightly more respectable -- just let all Palestinians vote on its future.

Why, then, did Columbia extend the invitation and why did so many liberals -- such as the New York Times and Los Angeles Times -- laud the invitation?

For two reasons.

First, because liberals judge social policies largely on the basis of how they feel rather than how policies actually play out in real life. It felt good to show how committed liberal universities are to freedom of speech and it felt good (for some on the left) to give Ahmadinejad hell.

Second, because today's liberals are, by definition, naive about evil. Since the Vietnam War, the American left, including liberals, have been naive about evil, just as the European left became naive about evil after World War I.

That is why there was universal liberal editorial condemnation of President Ronald Reagan for calling the Soviet Union an "evil empire." That is why there was universal liberal editorial condemnation of Israel for destroying Saddam Hussein's Osirak nuclear facility. That is why prominent liberals -- with no exception of which I am aware -- all condemned President George W. Bush's use of the term "Axis of Evil" to characterize the regimes of Iran, North Korea and Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

In a nutshell, Columbia invited a Holocaust-denying, homosexual-executing, women-suppressing, genocide-advocating, terrorist-supporting national leader because its president is the quintessential liberal. He is a man with many good intentions who, like other liberals, judges policies primarily by intentions, and liberals know that their intentions are noble (that's why they rarely acknowledge that conservatives can be good people).

But intentions matter little in policy making. Wisdom matters infinitely more. And there is little wisdom on the left.

There is little wisdom not only regarding evil, but regarding taxation, the size of government, illegal immigration, the effects of affirmative action on blacks, bilingual education, male-female differences, boys' needs, high school textbooks (revised in the name of multiculturalism), reasons for violent crime and terror (unemployment and poverty rather than awful values), the promotion of self-esteem in schools, early sex education, early withdrawal from Iraq, and just about every other major social issue.

In each case, just as in the disastrous invitation to Ahmadinejad, liberals feel good about their intentions and therefore about their decisions. But few, if any, of those decisions are wise. This is not surprising. A generation whose primary goals have included overthrowing Judeo-Christian values, which once said, "Don't trust anyone over 30," and which has rejected external moral authority (God, parents, teachers, religion) is not going to be wise. And absence of wisdom is why Columbia University and the New York Times thought inviting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a good idea.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Great Article Dennis
Great article Dennis. I agree with you. There is no gain to America by giving a guy like Ahmadinejad a platform. What good does it do to call Ahmadinejad a cruel and petty dictator? Like he cares what Bollinger thinks of him. Cruel and petty dictator's don't respect dialogue. Lee Bollinger, you work at a school: haven't you observed the playground bully? They only respond to a punch in the face. You can't change or help him by talking or hugging it out, as much as you might like to. These university types are so in love with concepts like freedom of speech, they forget that there is a real world that doesn't care about concepts. I wonder if Ahmadinejad edited any of the footage to make it favorable before airing it in his country. Naw, I'm sure he is as committed to freedom of the press as we are here in the US...

Columbia's Bollinger
Having been wrong some many times its hard to view anything the adminastration says without being very skeptical. One distubing factor is there rationale for the war keeps changing. It makes me wonder if the people running the show have any clue.

From a very famous play;"To thy on self be trueful,then thou cannot be false to any other man." We win when we allow free speech. We lose when we exclude people we hate. This includes the Iamanutjobs comments.

Putting evil on stage
The agnostics' and atheists' biggest dig against God is: If he's omnipotent and good and means us well, then why does he allow evil to happen? Good question.

Now the tie-in: Giving evil the mike and letting it rant or giving it a spot in the play to portray itself reveals lots of pros and cons. The biggest con is that the exercise seems least profitable to those who should benefit most from it while most profitable to those who should benefit least. This is what happened at Columbia.

It seems to me that the relativist left can hear no evil and see no evil, but can only speak it because they have no way of understanding what evil may be. To a lefty, free speech is the right to say anything the left finds agreeable or at least not disagreeable according to their relativist PC codes. But this gets things backwards because freedom relies on a common understanding of what ought and what ought not be said, that is, a common understanding of evil. That's why it is important that the American left speak as much as possible, for every time they flap their gums in public, they further alienate themselves from the majority of Americans, who are good people sharing a common understanding of evil.

You can't have it Both Ways

Mr Prager and many others in his line of work often criticize our Universities for squelching conservative views and refusing to let them be heard, for example criticising the recent dis-invitation of Larry Summers from speaking at a California University. I agree! Universities should expose their students and the surrounding inquiring community to as diverse and inclusive a range of opinions and views as they can.

And I therefore cannot condemn Mr. Ahmadinejahd's visit to Columbia. I wish I could've been there to see the guy myself, and I envy those lucky students their opportunity to see and hear an important, controversial figure, the head of an unfriendly state that we cannot avoid dealing with, and form their opinions of him with first-hand data.

President Bolinger's condemnation of Ahmadinejahd was not a victory or a defeat; it was a statement of his views, and a statement of the University's stance.

You say Ahmadinejahd denies the holocaust (I still haven't heard him say it)? So What! If you would censor a person because you don't like what he says, then you owe a BIG APOLOGY to all those 'Liberal Elitists' who (you claim) run our Universities. They just want to do the same thing that you want to do.

Robert, bless your heart...
Robert writes: "We should value OUR FREEDOMS and our integrity more then we care about what others use it for."

No, little man, we should value justice and the rule of law. We should value our high standards and our history of fighting tyranny. We would have been within our rights to invite the little terrorist mouthpiece to our soil and then to detain him and charge him as an international criminal once he arrived.

However, a liberal little enclave in NYC called Columbia, extended an INVITATION to the criminal and then tried to make themselves "FEEL good" by insulting him to his face. Dennis is right. He just says it more eloquently than the rest of us.

Yes and
Calling good evil and evil good is a type of confusion that was labeled in Old Testament times. The verse from Isaiah is too apt to not quote:

Isaiah 5:20,21 Those who call evil good and good evil are as good as dead, who turn darkness into light and light into darkness,
who turn bitter into sweet and sweet into bitter. Those who think they are wise are as good as dead, those who think they possess understanding. "


What an example for the future of Columbia's student population to have. As bad as it is for foriegn relations the damage such antics do to the character of our own country's psyhic is nothing short of sewing seeds of more confusion to the growing cloud of chaos spreading in this precious country.

Robert you question Bush's
credibiliy?
Put another way. If Bush came on TV and tried to convice the US that we had to bomb Iran...

A majority of people who voted for him in 04 would be skeptical...

Which one of the eight people in the Halp us Jon Carry photo are you.

To anyone else Robert is a "Capt. in the Navy" with test pilot (military) qaulifications. He also claims to be one of the people holding that sign. Which one of the eight people in that famous photo do you think could have the experience Robert has?

How can anyone take Robert's word and judgement on credibility serious?



Prager fan from 'Down Under'
Nodding head in agreement. Alas, the same scenario could easily have played itself out in my neck of the woods (Australia), at any one of our universities.

When it comes to issues where there is a lack of wisdom on the left, I would also add 'foreign aid'. Which reminds me of a conversation I had with a liberal* friend on the weekend. I was telling him about something I had seen on a cable T.V station and his response was, "I just can't justify the monthly cost of cable T.V. I've got a child in Bangladesh that I sponsor for the same amount that you spend on cable T.V."
The guy, like so many on the left, has no sense of humility!

* Australia's conservative party is the Liberal Party.

Get a job, Dennis...
You poo poo and whine endlessly atht a muslim actually has the audacity to want to use the Kuran when being sworn into office

You talk about how much Amewricans need to toughen up in the face of tyranny abroad

but now you feel sorry for and FEAR the Iranians because their president was publicly humilated???

That makes you both a hypocrite and a whimp.

Iranians may be "offended" by Bollingers publish lashing - but conservatives are simply besides themselves.

Why?

Because conservatives are jealous that a lib showed more b*lls in one fell swoop than they have in over a decade of power.

period.

Anyone notice that Bollinger has the
same hair stylist as Donald Trump?

Get U.S. out of the U.N.!!!!!
Part of the problem is that we are required to give any tin pot dictator a visa if he is invited to speak at the United Nations.

The U.N. has turned out to be a raw deal for the U.S.A. and it is time that we made some changes in the contract, or we just boot them out and turn that valuable real estate into condos.

16 TIMES???
The word liberal or variations are used 16 times including the title! WOW!

THANK GOD FOR Liberals, for with out them Conservatives whould have no reason to live.

Lord, I pray that you help conservatives stop being so obsessed, even full of hate and wantoned loathing towards these people they call "Liberals". Please Lord help them see what is important, IRAQ STUPID!

Hooray!
Thank you Dennis for the great article. I listen to your podcast every single day and am very impressed by your logic and reasoning.

About a Million of Democrats

Newsflash
An article about liberals used the word "liberal"! Several times!

THANK GOD for Conservatives, for without them Liberals would have no reason to whine.

Lord, I pray that you help liberals stop being so incapable of thinking beyond pre-masticated sound bites, even incapable of following a line of reasoning from these people they call "Conservatives". Please Lord help them see what is important, COLUMBIA STUPID.

Flaming liberal
"Universities should expose their students and the surrounding inquiring community to as diverse and inclusive a range of opinions and views as they can."

I agree, but it's hard to imagine that students at Columbia weren't ALREADY aware of Ahmadinejad's opinions. So, why bother inviting him? Instead, they should be searching for opinions and views that never get any press.

Here's an example. I'm betting there are plenty of students from south Asia at Columbia, and I'm betting that those students are ardent cricket fans. Why not expose the average Columbia student, who has been brought up to think of baseball as superior to cricket, to hear the views of those who disagree with them?

Here's another example. Columbia is an elite school, and it is staffed mostly by people who claim to be egalitarians. How about hearing from people (like me) who think that egalitarianism demands that there shouldn't be any elite schools? Isn't it perfectly obvious that egalitarians who think there should be elite schools are hypocrites who need to be exposed?

My point is simply that there are many opinions and views out there that are excluded from discussion at our schools. From that standpoint, the invitation to Ahmadinejad isn't terribly bold.

Chavez/Imanutjob
If anyone out there doubts Dennis just climb in your wayback machine and replay how the people reacted to Chavez rant at the UN when he called the President the devil. Dems who say basicly the same thing fell all over themselves criticizing this tinpot chump. I would have loved to see the look on his fat monkey face when he saw Pelosi and Rangel come to the President's defense after all he is one of them. Of course we all know it was about as authentic as a Chapaquidic neck brace but it made them feel good. My point is apply this lesson to what Bollinger did at Columbia. Do you get the picture now!

JFP: Very Good!
But I think the hypocracy of the Leftie professors is calculated.

They are deliberatly targeting the "elite" Universities, because that is part of their grab for power.

They know that the kids who go to these schools are the future leaders of America, and if they can brainwash those kids with their Marxist ideas, they will be able to acheive their Revolutionary goals without firing a shot.

Flaming Lib
Here, read it for yourself..but don't go all literal on it, because the exact words, "I, ahmanutjob, deny the holocaust ever existed" don't appear. You have to think about the context of the word myth. Can you?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/

http://www.adl.org/main_Anti_Semitism_International/ahmadinejad_words.htm

Columbia is Top Dog
No doubt that one huge reason for inviting Mr. Iran to speak was to put another notch in its belt - the belt that speaks that I'm the place to be. Columbia doesn't get the respect that goes to Yale, Harvard, etc., so to get more respect from academia, what is better than to get Iran to speak for it? I'm sure that they also have the little dictators from Venezuela and North Korea for their fall speaking sessions. Anyone challenged as to whether this kind of thinking also happened in academia when Hitler was rising towards December 1941?

Flaming Liberal 2:02am
You have to know your enemy. In the Islamic world, AquaVelvaJad was a "guest" at Columbia. You cannot, per the rules of ME hospitality, insult a guest. By insulting AquaVelvaJad, the president of Columbia insulted every citizen in Iran.

No, the better way of dealing with AquaVelvaJad was not to invite him to speak at all.


Robert:

I am going to be a lawyer when I grow up. Or maybe a hair dresser.

President Who
Who in blazes is "President Tom?"

will they still "feel good""?

when the iranians "edit" the video--part of which shows columbia students applauding ahmadinehad--and when that video is used to futher inspire the jihadists who are already killing americans--maybe some students and faculty will begin to realize how thoroughly they've been had.

I have this fantasy...
...that as Ahma dama ding dong stands up to speak,about a dozen conservative students rush the stage and physically push him off the stage and won't let him speak.All on international television.They then demand the same punishment that the left wing students got from Columbia when they did exactly that to a minuteman,which was no punishment at all.

It would be interresting to see how the debate on free speech would go then.Good for the goose,etc.

Liberals may often mean well...
...but Evil Leftists and their Islamofascist allies never do. They are out to destroy America. Liberals are their useful idiots.

Liberals Love Criminals
After many conversations with my liberal friends, I do not think they are ignorant of evil, they fall into two categories.

They love it or they fear it. Some of them are self-loathers that can't stand to judge bad people. They identify in some twisted way.

Some would kill another citizen for harming an animal, but stand midnight vigils for mass murderers.

Others are just scared. If they sleep with the lights on, the boogeyman will disappear.

Their minds just don't work right.

Bollinger meant well?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Did Bollinger
also feel good when the Minutemen were attacked on stage attempting to talk about their efforts on the border?

good intentions are a problem.
Jamble,

Like attacking Iraq over non-existing WMDs, like letting Hezbollah win in Lebanon, like subsidizing big pharma with more tax dollars for prescription drugs, like giving Gaza to the Palestinians, like failing to fix social security and Medicare with unpalatable solutions, like subsidizing greedy lenders like countrywide at the expense of the dollar, ... like planning to bomb Iran without the support of the American people...

All good intentions and look where all this has garnered. Its getting pretty warm around here.

This attack on Columbia ad-nausium is giving Ahmadinejad exactly what he wants, more divisiveness, and more press. Just set it aside and deal with our failed leadership instead.

I AM
I am just happy they brought this up again, because I just love to see libs like lilly, nycdogg Roberta you know the kind, they go stark raving drooling, spittle flying mad when they do! Bollinger is a whack job of the small order and his pal ImaNutJob is a whack off of the big order. EVERYBODY here that knows Bollinger was putting on a SHOW raise your hands. Besides he knew that part would never make it to iran’s TV screens!


HUNTER 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

I ran a virus scan today and it says all of my pictures of george sor holes in panties has BUGS! EWWWW

Rocker
Don't worry, Girlyman. If a fight breaks out, you can run and hide behind your Mommy!

Bollinger
Bollinger was afraid of Alumni Donations drying up. That is the ONLY REASON he said anything! Liberals NEVER worry about consequences UNLESS THEY stand to lose out on the consequences. Why didn’t Bollinger say ANYTHING when The Minutemen were PHYSICALLY ATTACKED by The Elitist, Spoiled Rotten, Liberal Brats that matriculate at Columbia? Typical Liberal Behavior, short-sighted, hypocritical and GUTLESS!

Robert Will Blog
JetPilot Will Fly
I’m Schizophrenic
And So Am I
Robert

rocker
i wonder if mommy's boy really understands danger. But in his sheltered life as long as mommy lets him live in the basement, cooks his meal and sees that his skateboard is kept in running order, his only fear is that mommy might actually expect him to grow up and take care of himself. btw since i wanna dinner jacket couldn't come to calif to speak, were you able to hitch hike to nyc to hear him speak and lick his boots. Or did your weekly allowance of $2. force yoiu to put off the trip

It's Bush's Fault
I have to put the blame for this Ahmadinejad brouhaha squarely on Jorge Bush. He should not have allowed this vertically challenged piece of garbage into our country. I don't care where the UN is located, they could have held this event offshore. Maybe in Cuba.

for NY City Dog
NY City Dog writes: "could it be that they object to conservative Muslims? Sure seem that way! "

Very insightful! Let me clarify it once and for all for you so there is no misunderstanding from now on:

I regard fundamentalist Islam as directly antithetical to basic principles of universal human rights.

Fundamentalist Islam does not believe in the Golden Rule (they specifically demand that Infidels be treated differently than fellow Muslims).

Fundamentalist Islam regards all secular governments and civil law as illegitimate.

Muslims have what they regard is an Allah-given duty to commit sedition and insurrection.

In short, Islam and America do not belong together.

The poster "Robert" wrote that "The American Republic should be different from every other nation on earth. We should value OUR FREEDOMS and our integrity more then we care about what others use it for."

Ergo, America should have no Muslims in it.

for Robert
Robert writes: "their approach to it is NOT TO DISAGREE it is to first label, and then try and silence any opposition. Thats not just Mr. Bush...it occurs here. It occurs on the Edwards Blog...it occurs wherever extremism needs an echo chamber not a hall of debate."

One of the nice things about the older Usenet newsgroups was that most of them were unmoderated. Anybody of any point of view could post to the Clinton newsgroup or the Bush newsgroup or the war newsgroups. Sure this led to a lot of flaming. But it also created a more vigorous discussion of ideas.

Most of today's blogs are moderated by moderators with a definite political agenda, and so they have turned into echo chambers for the moderator's point of view. Anybody who dissents is often labeled a "troll" and can even be permanently banned by the moderator:

The moderator of LittleGreenFootballs.com permanently banned me because I dared to criticize Bush's handling of the Iraq War.

Until a public outcry forced him to change his policy, the moderator of the blog freerepublic.com was summarily banning all pro-Guiliani posts because he doesn't regard Rudy as "a true conservative." You tried to post anything favorable to Rudy and your post is deleted.

Conservatives have been similarly punished and expelled from various left-wing blogs too.

i find it interesting
that townhall spends so much time trashing liberals.
\
i participate in a liberal board at http://www.slate.com and instead of attaciking conservatives as a stereotyped group they attack their ideas and discuss alternataives.

they also provide fact based essays rather than the generalized emotion based essay here at townhall.

now i am sure that many conservatives here would say so don't come hee or this is nothing cmpared to huffington post or daily kos, two websites i hve never visited but it is my mission in life to try and bring americans closer not split them apart.

prager agasin makes generalized emotion based arguments with no evidence to bakc up his claims.

he just FEELS liberals think that way not taking into account there are millions of liberals and they do not all think and act the same

One of The Far Right & Not Afraid
One of The Far Right & Not Afraid

The 1st Amendment to the Constitution states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."



It is an amazing addition to an amazing document. There was no other document like it in the world at the time. There are few like today. And if the current trend continues to its logical conclusion, there will not be any such document in the future.

A dictator, who has publicly expressed the desire to destroy the Little Satan (Israel) and the Great Satan (U.S.A.), is given a platform, here in the Great Satan, to spread his doctrine. Isn’t it ironic that the very document that guarantees our rights could be the tool used by our enemies to destroy us?

We do have these rights because they are written down on a sheet of paper. We have these rights because periodically the Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots who are willing sacrifice that full measure of devotion. It has always been the blood of patriots that have guaranteed our rights.

There will come a time when either the Muslims will be victorious over us, or we over them. The two worldviews are not compatible. Islam has proven thru history that it cannot co-exist with any other worldview.

If we prevail then Columbia can continue its disingenuous interpretation of free speech. And Robert can continue his walking in his blindness because someone paid with blood for their right to do so.

If, on the other hand, the Muslims prevail, then the president of Columbia and Robert and everyone else will wonder, "What happened?"

khan is unwittingly right
khan:

You said, "We lose when we exclude people we hate."

Exactly. Just like when Columbia excluded the Minutemen from speaking. Just like when Bollinger kicked the ROTC off campus. Just like when Ann Coulter gets pied. Just like dozens of other examples when the Left excludes people they hate from speaking.

Your juvenile attitude and moral relativism is showing...

religiouslib
SUURRREEE, But let a right winger go to moveon.duh or some other lib site, and they don’t debate you they just ban you. And besides I myself don’t dislike some libs, but for most of the ones that come here, they come here looking for trouble, so they find it!


HUNTER 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

Arthur "Pinch" Sulzberger, Jr.? Can I go to the topless code pink rally wit you?
george sor holes: yes but watch your toes when they stand close!


RETSSGT, Nam65-66, and Others
We have another accomplishment for Robert. Check out his 9:51am post. He is now a student or teacher at Columbia! (Either that or some other split personality of his; i.e., Glenn Beck.)

This just keeps getting better!


Robert:

Hal, Shaggy needs mental health care. Or is it, "I need mental health care?" I keep forgetting who I am today.

Ny Hog
Who Was Talking To You, Buttinski?

Ny Hog
Typical Liberal Coward Slandering My Family, WAHT A GUTLESS WONDER!

Georgetwin
I would ignore NY City Doggie (alias, "shaggy") if I were you. He does not want to have serious debate. He is just another low-life, liberal troll. When he and his kin degrade a "Navy Cross" Marine, they have stepped over the line to the "Dark Side".

All you can do is hope and pray that they eventually regain their sense.


Robert:

Shaggy is so brave, he makes me want to cry and pet him.

Robert...
"Had Mr. Clinton said what he said about Saddam and WMD Doug, you would be the loudest banger of all to impeach him."

I don't know about Doug, but I would still be wondering what happened to them since it is indisputable that he at least had them.

But let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If Saddam was a white supremacist, you would have a totally different reaction to the exact same set of facts. You would be clamoring for Congress to authorize more money for the search for the WMD because haven't we learned anything from the Holocaust and the WMD used in those gas chambers.

You'd be pointing out that it's a fact that Saddam had these weapons and had used them against the Kurds and Iranians, that there was no evidence that he destroyed them, that satellite photos showed a convoy of trucks driving across the Syrian border a few days before the invasion, that the Duelfer Report showed dual-use technology and a plan to have new weapons constituted within months of the sanctions being lifted, that the Romanian secret police chief under Causescu (Ion Mihai Pacepa) who defected in 1978 explained that all Soviet client states were taught to be masters in the art of hiding such weapons, that illegal missile components were found in the bed of the Tigris river in 1995, that shortly after Baghdad fell, 30 Mig jet fighterbombers were found buried in the sand west of Baghdad, that nowhere near all of Iraq has been searched (and NONE of Syria), and that even with all of that they have still found several hundred sarin gas artillery rounds.

"Mr. Bush either lied about the runnup to the war with Saddam, was a dolt, or ezaggerated. And that is a fact."

If Bush lied or was a dolt or exaggerated, then so was the case with every senator and congressman and every Western intelligence agency -- BEFORE Bush was even elected. You seem to have erased the 1990's from your memory. The weapons did exist and do exist.


Ny Gutless Coward
I go after You & Rocker and anybody else I disagree with. I DO NOT slander anyone's family! You have shown what you are, a pile of what is found under an NYC Dog's Tail!

Zhangliqun
robert has been smacked in the face with facts before, trouble is, they are not his, so they are lies or do not count or you can't prove them. and when you do, he either is going to lunch, or taking helo lessons, or has to clean his room cos mommy told him so!

HUNTER 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

roberta roberta
I ran a virus scan today and it says all of my pictures of MK in a thong has bugs in it!

UN =/= Columbia
Mountain Rose wrote:
< < Part of the problem is that we are required to give any tin pot dictator a visa if he is invited to speak at the United Nations. > >

Any chance to bash American membership in the UN, eh?

Unfortunately for your argument, there is nothing in the UN's charter that requires visiting dictators to be allowed to speak at Columbia University.

Also, were the US to back out of the UN today, such a move would not necessitate the removal of the UN headquarters from New York City.



Bollinger
This is what the conservatives do, and Dennis is worse than most at it, along with Michael Medved.

Take the idiot actions of one person and say that all liberals are the same. Do we even know if this college president is a liberal?

By Dennis's reasoning then ALL republicans are liars (Scooter Libby) and perverts (Sen. Craig).

Dennis loves to take the actions of a few, and use that as proof, that ALL in that same group are guilty of the same action.

President Bush meant well, but because of his mistakes, bad judgment, arrogance, lack of knowledge, not listening to those who knew better, thousands of troops are dead and 10's of thousands are seriously injured.

I'm not arguing whether we should have invaded Iraq, or not. I'm saying his decision on how to conduct the war, are criminally negligent.

Yet, were not supposed to question what our president does? His principles are correct, so we can't question the means? Bush is absolved of mistakes because his heart is in the right place?

God help us all if we are not to question authority, and just follow like sheep.

Jamble Got the Point Perfectly
"Jamble" made the most succinct post showing he read and understood Dennis' point. The quote is traceable to St Francis of Assisi, but many of today's liberals would be surprised by how often it was used as a warning by liberals of yesteryear. Most posts of the 65 so far go off on tangents. That is why these discussions disintegrate into useless venting, or even harmful venting -- exactly what Dennis is trying to warn everyone not to do by means of Bollinger's example.

I still like my grandfather's advice: "Never mean well. Always do well. If you "mean" well, you will inevitably have to explain and justify your actions, which will be completely open to debate and interpretation. If you "do" well, your "actions speak louder than words", and you will not need to explain yourself at all to anyone." From a lifetime of personal experience, I agree with my grandfather and Dennis 100%. What Dennis gave us, and Jamble understood, was WISDOM.

Bollinger's "well-meaning" dressing down of Ah'm a Bad Jihadi was NOT heard in Iran or the ME where he is becoming an symbol of standing up to "The Great Powers" even among those who detest the Iranian Theocracy. But Columbia's invitation to speak WAS a PR coup. Bollinger accomplished exactly the opposite of his "intentions." "Jamble" and Dennis got it right. Hats off to you both.

wrong so many times
"The very moment the Iranian Holocaust-denier was given a university platform, he won."

Nope, sorry, you are wrong.

If he won the day, it was when that Bollinger gave his stupid speech. In his picture he looks
like a less drugged out Imus. And he acted
pretty much like Imus also.

And who is describing him as a Liberal? He may be one, but I have no reason to believe that is
a given. I think we are making assumptions here
because he is at an Ivy League School. The speech sounded to me like something that would be
given by a right-wing demagogue. I know of no
liberal personally who approved of that speech.

And by the way, your last two paragraphs in this
column were about as disgusting and dumb as anything I have read in a very long time. Do you
really feel that you have spoken TRUTH here?
Shame on you.





TIME
I follow your reasoning, and I don't disagree that we should be allowed to question authority. But, you have to admit, that using a broad brush to paint the opposing view happens on both sides of the political aisle, it is not a purview of "conservatives" as your opening statement avers.

I try to listen to what people say and do, and with few exceptions, Democrats are 'on the same page' ....Does that make them sheep?

I appreciate your concern for the loss of life and limb the soldiers experience in Iraq, but why is that part of the argument? We are at war.

I could easily point to opposition to the war as being indirectly responsible for some of those soldiers you mention. Anything that prolongs the war adds to those casualties.

If anti-war statements embolden the enemy, doesn't that prolong the war? If the NYT publishes classified information on how we conduct our war on terror, does that not aid and abet our enemies? Does using funding of the war as a political football help our soldiers?

There is plenty of blame to pass around about how the war has been prosecuted, but it does not, by any stretch, fall solely at the feet of GW Bush.

Robert, your writing is literal nonsense
Robert, your writing is nonsense. And I MEAN it literally makes no sense. I don't know whether to agree with you or disagree with you.

Take a class, or something. But PLEASE stop posting your illiterate ramblings.

If you can read this, congratulations. If you follow my wise counsel, thank you.

Georgetwin
the dog writes:
"you can dish it but you can't take it?"
Ask the dog who flagged me today? I wonder about the who can take it comment!

Not bad, but Mr. Prager needs to stop
assuming leftists' claims are true.

> reasons for violent crime and terror (unemployment and poverty rather than awful values) <

As has been repeatedly shown, by study after study, leading terrorists were often *not* poor, including, of course, bin laden himself.

Relocation
The UN is located on a piece of prime real estate the commercial development of which would greatly improve the NYC economy, and generate a lot of tax revenue for the city. Let's have the appropriate people apply the precedent set in that Kelo decision, and seize the property, kick the UN out of the country, and sell the real estate to commercial developers.
Everyone wins under that scenario, including the UN, because all those people there who are forever griping about what a horrible country this is, won't have to be in it anymore.

SSGT
I'm sorry you got flagged by shaggy, since you had a really cool handle! Still, what do you expect from someone who's only way of winning an argument is to flag?

Robert
Come to the Dark Side...we have cookies

wbheff
I second the motion, and propose to send the UN to Switzerland, or another 'neutral' country. Let someone else pay the tickets....

shaggy
Cookies? I thought they were doggie treats

YLG
good day to ya! By any handle we are hands down on track to putting these swine in their proverbial places.



Roberto: Here we go round the mulberry bush...

SSGT
Why didn't you do SSGTRET?

shaggy
Mulberries? They are safe to eat, right? Yum...AAARRGH

YLG
Funny you mentioned that one. SSGTRET was my first one used when I signed up on TH.



Roberto: I'm a leavin, on a jet plane, don't know when I'll be back again, leavin...

Let me get this straight, Allen,
liberals have bigger balls because they're willing to talk big and carry no stick? Is that correct? And conservatives have no balls because they're willing to draw a line in the sand and actually do something when the line is crossed?

What kind of Nancy, candy-a$*ed public school did you oooze out of?

robert
I never post to trolls as it's a total waste of time-however----------
Apost on this thread assertd that you claim to be a naval officer and tes pilot.
Is this true?

if so I'm sure you won't mind answering the following:
what is the definition of VMC,VR,TIT,TGT,IAS, V1,V2,N1,N2,Mu
Whar is a hot start? define accelerated stall. What is the limiting factor in maximum crosswind?
These should take about 5 minutes to answer.
If you have the time I do
P

boo
test

post
typos-A post asserted test what

obviously too incredulous to type - sorry
P

SSGT
Ny Doggy Doo made a derogatory comment about my Family. That is OVER THE LINE!

Not a good choice
YLG,

Why would you want to send the UN to swotzerland? What do you have against Switzerland? It is a beautiful county with good skiing. No, let the UN re-locate Rwanda, Lesotho, Yemen, or even Saudi Arabia. Perhaps Bangla Desh would be a good location for them, or Chad.

wbheff writes:
Not a good choice
YLG,

Why would you want to send the UN to swotzerland? What do you have against Switzerland? It is a beautiful county with good skiing. No, let the UN re-locate Rwanda, Lesotho, Yemen, or even Saudi Arabia. Perhaps Bangla Desh would be a good location for them, or Chad.

I'd say Namibia, or Bhutan.

wbheff
Though I have always maintained that the UN should be located in a neutral country, I must concur with your choice of Rwanda. Max Power just posted the reason more succinctly than I ever could!!

shaggy: I get all my facts fron Wiki!!

Lumberjack7392
Not Bhutan! I have friends from there!!


Max Power, wbheff
Why not Haiti? They need the economic boost, and the voo doo wouldn't hurt.

Max Power
That's where the voo doo comes in...

the un
what a perfect example of lib failure. They can accomplish nothing but still maintain they are relevant. i understand that they expect anytime within the next 50 years to finally come up with a definition of terrorism and there is a rumor they may be finally able to name another country that is a danger to the world besides israel and the united states, but only after they define terrorism

Flaming Liberal Multiculturalist
It is noteworthy you picked your alias as multi... instead of THINKER.

So, let us say you are a HS. Let us say you are aware that he hangs HS;
hangs lesbians after the 4th offense; whips for the other 3. Stones adultereres. Girls who get raped get stoned, the rapist gets a mild punihsment.

And so I invite to my house as a an honored guest. I am free to do that. But apparantly as a mulitculutalist you respect what he does. Good for you. We need more people like you. The president of the 1932olympics was also a multiculturalist and scratched two jewish relay runners so not to offend Hitler.

You are no different. But you dont realize it. By the way Larry Summers commited no crimes nor said anything derogatory about anyone.

One thing multicultural should not mean is anything goes. Think about it.

len
it is easy to be pc or multicultural when yoiu believe in nothing that might offend and no have no values you hold dear. This idea that every culture is equal and that dominant cultures have somehow exploited others to gain superiority is likewise nonsense. The most advanced society on the planet, america is stuck living next to a third world toilet, mexico and yet these dimwits think that other than tacos and tequila these parasites can contribute more to america than putting up drywall and picking grapes. Exactly how these illegals with the equivilent of a 7th grade education and the inability to speak or understgand english are going to solve the economic probles of america has yet to be expalined. But I guess the pc /multiculturists think smacking a pinata with a stick counts as cultural relevance.

Mrs Paddy
The fact of the war, does fall on GB.

Saddam had been killing people for 30 years, why invade now?

Spearheading into Bagdad, leaving our enemy and their weapons behind us, is a rookie military mistake. Then he claims he underestimated the strength of the enemy when they turned and attacked.

Which tells me he wasn't listening to his generals, he was listening to Rumsfeld. When his generals tried to tell him, he got rid of them instead of listening to them. That's criminal negligence. If we are going to fight, lets do it smart.

We should fight world terrorists. So why are we NOT fighting in Africa, Asia, Pakistan, etc....

His "mistakes" have caused needless death, even for a war.

My point was back to Dennis: He meant well but.....

And yes both sides do it, but the Republicans (Bush) are in charge and are making these decision against the voice of the people (75% disapproval) and the Democrats.

Yes, anti-war talk does embolden the enemy, but not even close to the same degree as putting a violent, offensive, attacking American force on the ground in an Arab land.

Now he's talking about bombing the factories in IRAN that make bombs used against Americans. Sounds logical, but we can't handle starting a war with IRAN. Unless we reimpose the draft and start production of weapons, at a rate 5 times what we are producing now. What ever he does, we have to wait for our military to catch up with his plans of attack.

I'm against his first strike policy. I disagree with what he thinks we can do as a military force. His aggressions are bigger than our military. And doesn't what the people say, count for anything?

As for the president of Iran talking at Colombia, let him. Let the people see who and what he is. Bollinger was stupid. Talk about giving aid to the enemy. He should have just shut up and let the "nut job" speak. No homosexuals in Iran, and the audience: laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh.....

TIME
You don't really think Ahmadinehad is a nut job, do you?
Our mistake was putting American forces in Iraq and then behaving in a tentative manner. It shouldn't matter what the arabs think, we have a job to do. Bush is timid and an arabist. Just like his father.

TIME
The fact of the war falls on W's dad. I knew when we didn't press on to Baghdad during Desert Storm that we'd be back. Unfortunately, Bush I didn't have the go-ahead from the international community to do that, and didn't take the initiative to do it on his own when we had the momentum.

Consequently it made this current conflict worse because there were a lot of Iraqis that died trying to overthrow the regime and nobody was there to help them. No wonder it has been a hard slog to get them to trust us.

Every war causes needless deaths. So does doing nothing, and so does leaving before the job is done.

Reply to PatriotDefender

Thanks for the links:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/

http://www.adl.org/main_Anti_Semitism_International/ahmadinejad_words.htm

These are not transcripts of speeches by Ahmadinejahd, rather snippets compiled by people who hate him, but I believe the substance of what they say.

The links (especially the 2nd one) say a whole lot of different things, but WRTO the holocaust they do not say that Ahmadinejahd claims that Hitler never did bad things to the Jews. By saying that Ahmadinejahd claims that the Jews exaggerate the atrocities committed by Hitler against the Jews, the article demonstrates that he (Ahmadinejahd) understands that Hitler did commit atrocities against the Jews. His "Myth of the Holocaust" is the six million deaths.

For the record I think that six million is a conservative estimate, and while I consider Stalin, who killed far more people and actually did wipe out certain ethnic minorities (according to Solzhenyitsyn) to be a far worse monster, I do believe that what happened to European Jews in WWII was a Holocaust.

Many of Ahmadinejahd's statements from the 2nd link raise valid points, and it's important that we in the West realize that the Palestinians feel like they are paying for Hitler's crimes, and that American WMD have been used on Iranians.

Minutemen
Come on President Bollinger, be controversial, be an advocate of free speech, really stir things up with a "diversity" of "unpopular" ideas - invite the Minutemen to speak at Columbia . . . if you have the courage.

Liberals
Liberals don't care how much damage they do to America (or to the world situation) as long as they "feel good" about what they did.


MrsPaddy
I'm not saying we should leave. I'm saying Bush is an incompetent, idiot. Responsible for more deaths of American troops than necessary. That's enough for me to impeach him. What's an American soldiers life worth?

Yes, just one of the hundreds of mistakes we have made dealing with the Arabs in the last 100 years. If we bothered to understand the Arabs (an obligation our leaders have) we would not be in this mess. We need a Patton. A hard warrior, who understood his enemy.

So what's next? Attack, attack, attack??
Lets just nuke them and declare ourselves ruler of the world. If not that, we know this war could go on for YEARS, if we don't take a different approach.

Try to get Americans to approve a draft, or an increase in Defense spending of 500%, good luck. Americans don't want to gear up to be the aggressor in the world. They don't want to live in a war mode for the next 10-20 years.

The reason Americans (by 75%) just want out, is because they don't trust Bush can do anything right. Especially something as serious as war, and we now have the proof he can't.

Americans might trust someone who can show that they know how to prosecute a war, but how can you judge that before they are doing it?

There is no one running for President now, that I would trust running a war. We could go back to electing ex-military men for President. I would feel much safer with Colin Powell as President. He was never happy that they stopped him from going after Saddam.

multiculturalist
Forget the Jews; homosexuals were also knocked off, But that is happenning right now by the guy you want to have as honored guest in your home or your school or wherever. This is not some culture in the bush who have no been exposed to civilization. this guy knows what he is doing is criminal that is why he denies it happenned and you want to reward that.

that happenned along time ago; but i cannot help note that you ignored my post because that it hits home; it is now and you have no answer. Are you embarrassed and just avoid the implications of your position. Take a stand.

Reply to Len
Len:
"...Take a stand."

I will, never fear. But I do work for a living, so it will probably take me until tomorrow evening, at the earliest.

For now, consider: In this country Innocent Black People were hung from trees and burned during every administration from Washington up through Eisenhower. Everybody knew about or at least heard stories about it. Nobody with the real power to stop it stepped up.

Were those Presidents all monsters? Should we erase them from our currency, historybooks, monuments, and various other positions of honor?

wow
FLM makes Pragers point in ever post. He feels good that a criminal and tyrant who murders US soldiers by the day has a chance to be heard and to hell with the Iranian opposition whose impossible job became even harder after this massive PR job by mr.whackjob. The selfishness of the left never ceases to amaze me.

to good to pass up!
"So what's next? Attack, attack, attack??
Lets just nuke them and declare ourselves ruler of the world. If not that, we know this war could go on for YEARS, if we don't take a different approach."

Just like we did in Japan! I love visiting Japan and walking down the street bossing our imperial subjects around. It is so cool that they are forced to bow down to me an almighty American. I am thankful we nuked Japan and dominated them and declared ourselves the rulers of the world!





OH WAIT

Another anti-Liberal polemic;
I particularly liked this line:

"...liberals judge social policies largely on the basis of how they feel rather than how policies actually play out in real life."

Reminds me of so many, reality-based, conservative promises like:

* A fifty day war in Iraq
* A six month war in Iraq
* War in Iraq at a cost of $50 billion
* "Mission Accomplished"
* "We oppose 'nation-building'"
* "Smaller government"
* "compassionate conservatism"
* "This war is 'not about oil'"

And so forth, ad nauseum. Don't study that image in the mirror, Dennis. Your limbic system wouldn't be able to handle it.

Reply to Matt
Matt:
"FLM...feels good that a criminal and tyrant who murders US soldiers by the day has a chance to be heard..."

Do you really think that I'm happy that Iran smuggles weapons into Iraq that are then turned against the foreign occupiers (who to my lasting dismay are my countrymen)? I'm not. Really, I'm not, and F--K you if you think I am.

But I think I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't think back to the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Exactly who was smuggling in the weapons and the expertise to murder the foreign occupiers then? Were the leaders of those countries "criminals and tyrants"?

Matt:
"The selfishness of the left never ceases to amaze me."

If I have to choose between seeming selfish and being a hypocrite, I'll pick the former.

Why Do Democrats...

Teach their children to HATE the President of the United States?

My Parents didn't like Nixon or Carter... But they didn't teach me to hate them. Nor did any of my friends parents, and most were Democrats.

Seems like the word "Hate", has little meaning anymore. "Hate" now means "Disprove".

This only leads to more confusion when describing folks like Bin Laden. Tell a person you "Hate" Bin Laden, and they now think you just "Dislike him a little".

Weird.

For Len & Others, Pt 1
JFP:
"...it's hard to imagine that students at Columbia weren't ALREADY aware of Ahmadinejad's opinions. So, why bother inviting him?"

Sean Hannity has fun (and gets ratings) proving that people like American college students often can't even find Iran on a map. No, I don't think the students at Columbia knew all about Ahmadinejahd.

JFP:
"...My point is simply that there are many opinions and views out there that are excluded from discussion at our schools. From that standpoint, the invitation to Ahmadinejad isn't terribly bold."

There are infinite opinions, there are few heads of state. I don't call the invitation to Ahmadinejahd 'bold', I just see it as a wonderful educational opportunity, and I'm glad it happened.




For Len & Others, Pt 2

Rob:
"Until you understand the difference between inviting people of different views to speak and inviting an evil leader who has denied the holocaust and called for destruction gays, and of an entire country's men, women and children, your words are meaningless."

len:
"It is noteworthy you picked your alias as multi... instead of THINKER."

So, you maintain that no Multiculturalist can think? (BTW, can you define the term 'Multiculturalist? Apparently you can't type or cut/paste it.)

len:
"So, let us say you are a HS."

As you wish.

len:
"Let us say you are aware that he hangs HS; hangs lesbians after the 4th offense; whips for the other 3. Stones adultereres. Girls who get raped get stoned, the rapist gets a mild punihsment."

Are you aware that these same things happen under the auspices of our stalwart allies in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and even Jordan? Indeed, they happen under the government that we installed and support in Iraq! I guess that means we approve of it, too.

len:
"...But apparantly as a mulitculutalist you respect what he does."

I'll again assume you mean 'multiculturalist', but I have to say that the most astounding flights of fantasy, speculation, and slander seem miraculously apparent to you.

Rob, Len: A Stand
Len, Rob, you see things in Black & White. I think you do so because the same geniuses who brought you the ongoing daily abortion that is the American adventure in Iraq have pointed your snouts at Iran and said 'sic em', so now Ahmadinejahd is the next Terrorist Boogeyman. You're therefore willing to be as hypocritical as you have to be in order to see him as the ultimate evil, and have no regard that what you condemn in him you accept in others.

He kills Homosexuals? He hates Israel? So do many of our Stalwart Middle-Eastern Allies, and not only do their heads of state visit here, our president visits them!

His regime smuggles weapons into Iraq, and they are used o kill our soldiers? Our government (our 'regime', if you will) smuggled weapons into Afghanistan for use against the Soviet occupiers. Governments often do nasty things to further what they perceive to be their interests.

But your hypocrisy isn't even the point, really. You somehow see whatever nebulous 'honor' Ahmadinejahd gets from making a fool of himself before an audience of Columbia Students ("...we don't have Homosexuals in our Country...") as being more important than a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to actually see and hear the Iranian head of state, unfiltered by left- and right-wing spin.

Why is that? Are you afraid of American students learning that American-made Nerve Gas and Biological Weapons were sold to our good old buddy Saddam Hussein and used on Ahmadinejahd's relatives? Are you afraid of American students hearing another point of view about the creation of Israel and the sixty-year broken promise to the area's indigenous non-Jewish Arab population (who I'll call 'Palestinians, for short)?

I think you're afraid of open minds.

I'm not. I LOVE my country and I love our freedom of thought, and I'll defend it against Rightwing Thought Police just as vigorously as I will defend it against Islamo-fascists.



Liberals are bad
Yeah, those liberals with there deficit spending, expanded government, foreign wars and nation building really hack me off!!

Feeling good!
"First, because liberals judge social policies largely on the basis of how they feel rather than how policies actually play out in real life."

You know, Prager makes these generalizations about liberals, that one can so easily turn around and make about many conservatives. For example, think of much of the rehtoric around the Iraq war, and even specifically things Prager says.

Conservatives such as him like to feel good about removing Saddam Hussein, regardless of the actual consequences. They like to feel good about American exercising its military might allegedly for noble causes. It makes them fell good to attack academia, perhaps to help themselves feel intellectually superior.

Finally, a word about evil.

"That is why there was universal liberal editorial condemnation of President Ronald Reagan for calling the Soviet Union an "evil empire.""

Well the problem is that often calling something "evil" is an oversimplification. When Reagan called the Soviet Union "evil" it was actually in a process of internal reform, glasnost and perestroika. Can something evil reform itself to become less evil? Ponder that.

Sheldon is Chavez evil ?????

Maybe not yet... Just wait til' someone challenges his power in a few years. He will become a mass murder like Sadam.

If the consequence of war is one less mass-murder.. I'll take the chance.

What would Sadam be up to today... He had no weapons... sanctions would be lifted.. and he would be building another massive army... preparing for a much bloodier war...

Lies, mistruths, or whatever. The U.S. is the "only" nation on Earth capable of removing an evil dictator... that is why they hate us...

Bush knew a war would come... we fought Sadam now, rather than later... saving thousands of future soldiers.

One must have principal and courage... it's just plain American.. we're different.

Evil and Elitism
Dear Mr. Prager:

As I have said before, I never thought that I would feel and sympathy toward the Iranian president, a man in whom I see the boisterous face of evil personified. Yet, the treacherous verbal assault upon him by his own host engendered this. If you invite a man into your home or place of business, however misguidedly, you owe him the courtesy of hospitality. In the Middle East, in particular, this is an engrained tenet of their culture.

Thereby, by displaying such perfidity before the entire world, Dr. Bollinger not only enhanced Mr. A's image among his admirers, but likewise degraded America's virtue. Of course, this tactic is hardly new among liberal elitists; people to whom the bounds of propriety are neatly dispensed with when convenient. In doing so, however, Dr. Bollinger did not succeed in belatedly separating himself from his murderous guest. He only dragged us all down to his level of depravity in the eyes of those whom we wish to reach out to. And, in so doing, he has endangered us all.
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