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Friday, March 07, 2008
David Bellavia :: Townhall.com Columnist
America Will Not be Defeated
by David Bellavia
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Starting out in the infantry, as with any profession or vocation, you learn basic skills. Every infantryman learns the same standardized plays-called "battle drills"-which are trained and retrained relentlessly. There are nine such drills in the infantry handbook, but battle drill number three always confused me: breaking contact. Essentially breaking contact is when you quit. You run away because the enemy fire is unrelenting and there is no hope to survive. The only way out is to retreat, or leave the terrain as quickly as possible-breaking contact. As it is with all infantry tactics, you can't just run away when being shot at. Infantrymen shoot their way out of most situations, good or bad.

I must have rehearsed the break contact drill thousands of times during my six years in the infantry. Sometimes we practiced the standard base-of-fire leapfrog and sometimes I taught the famous Australian Peel. These are just fancy ways of getting off the battlefield as quickly as possible with the least amount of causalities. We would constantly go over the fundamentals of retreating from battle, almost as much as we trained for knocking out a bunker or the other rudiments of close quarter's battle.

Those long days in the field practicing retreat were probably the only wasted training I received in my beloved Army. There must have been at least 10 times in battle during my time in Iraq when, according to doctrine, we should have broken contact; but we all knew the deal. We used every other battle drill during our time at war almost on a weekly basis. Taking out bunkers, clearing enemy held buildings and even navigating a couple mine fields, but never breaking contact. From the lowest ranking private to the commander of the battalion we understood the unspoken oath:

Infantry soldiers, Marines ... Americans don't break contact.

This just doesn't happen. We fight to win. And hold our ground. No matter the odds or consequences. Those are the lessons taught to us by our brave predecessors of Vietnam, Korea and World Wars I and II.

For as long as I have been associated with the military and veteran organizations I have always been proud of the company I've kept. As easy as it is to say "never quit" you learn to appreciate those near you who actually live their lives by this warrior ethos. And you are deliberately and forever changed by those near you who die by that same warrior ethos.

I helped found the largest group of non-partisan servicemen and women who serve our great nation at a time of war. Vets for Freedom (Vetsforreedom.org) is a group of my peers that continually make me proud of my veteran status. No other Long War veteran's group from my generation holds more valor awards from the field of battle or purple hearts as Vets for Freedom. What we stand for is always in concert with what we fight for.

As the lone ambassadors of America's Warrior Class we feel strongly that, as long as there is a debate taking place on the merits of the conflicts in which we continue to fight and bleed, we will not only participate, we will lead that debate. No one is more qualified or more deserving of that distinction than those brave souls who have continued to re-enlist, tour after tour, to defend our freedoms.

This is the main reason why VetsforFreedom.org has created the nation-wide Heroes Tour. A bus full of notable, decorated veterans will travel from city to city and tell our stories and thank each city's local heroes fresh from battle.

New York Times bestseller and American patriot Marcus Luttrell, who received the Navy Cross and fought the epic fight in the mountains of Afghanistan that would pit his Navy SEALS against 150 Taliban guerrillas, is on board.

Steve Russell, the Bronze Star with valor holder and Task Force Commander responsible for finding the spider hole holding Saddam Hussein will be there. Jeremiah Workman, a Marine awarded the Navy Cross for the 24 insurgents he helped destroy in house fighting in Fallujah will be there too. The list continues on and on-all warriors who are committed to victory and the destruction of the Islamist extremism that threatens us at home.

We continue to defend our sacrifices almost five years to the day since we were sent to war in Iraq. Our brothers and sisters in the Afghanistan conflict are approaching year seven. Still we have partisans and defeatists climbing over themselves to define what it is we fight against and why it is important to leave before victory is achieved.

By railing against the surge, by cheapening the success on the ground today in Iraq, these shameful Moveon.org-controlled senators and representatives have bet against our Warrior Class in America. As members of that fraternity, my peers and I again are pushing back against this infectious defeatism.

In the name of partisan election cycle politics, television commercials and campaign talking points are now openly designed to sap the will of the American people. This is an effort to take from veterans the honorable and attainable victory our beloved friends gave their lives in exchange. Like the Islamist threat overseas, this dogma will be met head on. We cannot allow the selfish advancement of political agendas to transcend the blood sacrifices made in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Bet on this... we will not be defeated.

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About The Author


David Bellavia is co-founder of Vets for Freedom and author of “House to House: A Soldier’s Memoir” (coming to paperback March 18th).

 
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watercloset
"The hippies were the first to realize that before the establishment, like McNamara, who promoted the war and got us involved in a situation that was unwinnable no matter how many of them we killed or bombs we dropped."

Garbage! The hippies were nothing but a bunch of lazy ne'er-do-wells. Their brains were too fried with drugs to realize much of anything, except that they didn't want to be drafted.

Powers
Vietnam was a war that never would have been won. It never could have been won, such as winning is. The hippies were the first to realize that before the establishment, like McNamara, who promoted the war and got us involved in a situation that was unwinnable no matter how many of them we killed or bombs we dropped. Our troops were betrayed from the start by those who sent them there.

It is the same with this Iraqi war. Despite so much bravery of our soldiers and marines, what was the purpose?

To paraphrase the ancient greeks who said that great powers "are not destroyed from without unless they destroy themselves from within first." WE are destroying ourselves from within.

Right you are Mr. Bellavia
Yes, when it is all said and done, all Empires self-defeated. This quote from Samuel Adams fits in so here it is: " A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuos they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader". So, if up to 40 millions of illegals have fully settled in, is that not prove that America's virtue is gone, in as much as against the laws, millions of American citizen in violation of these laws did aid and abet these millions of illegals, where now already their language is equal to English. In essence an external invasion due to the breakdown of America's virtues, right? Secondly, if America is the mass grave of 50+ million of unborn babies, while the butcher shops continue in business and add daily thousands more, is that not the most God insulting loss of virtue by America may I ask? So man, Bellavia thinks that his gun fever will keep America undefeated? This quote from James Madison: "Of all enemies to public lierty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proced debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instrument for bringing the many under the domination of a few". Is it not true that America is now fully saddled with this monster of war, where now the USA President acts just like an Emperor in control of just about any and everything that goes on in America?

mldogg
I believe it's generally accepted fact that our military never lost in VietNam. Their hands were tied by Washington the whole time, and it was Washington bowing to the hippies who declared defeat. They all shat on our soldiers. Shame on them and anyone who agreed or participated.

It would be grievously wrong to draw the conclusion you do about Mahmoud's visit to Iraq. He took advantage of his culture by going there, his hosts, because of their culture could do no less than receive him. You're thinking exactly what Mahmoud wants you to think.

proud lib
"And I ask you, what is your explanation for black poverty in 1950 if families were not broken."

I think you already know the answer to that question. You are dodging my point. My question was, how have government welfare programs alleviated the problem?

touj.
"I think the "no child" program is a disaster, frankly, and oddly, Ken, that was a conservative construct, not a bunch of liberals spending your money on bad education."

Wrong. Ted Kennedy was a co-sponsor of that bill. To the best of my knowledge, he is no conservative.

Not that I absolve President Bush from all blame. He has been criticized by many conservatives for his domestic and spending policies. I believe I said that earlier.

Advice to Bloggers
Ignore Robert.

Proud to be an American!
David,

It is veterans like you with your courage, conviction, and sense of what is right and wrong
that give the rest of us TRUE HOPE for our future.

THANK YOU for your dedication and sacrifice.

This is one VietNam era vet that is truly thankful for what you and our entire military is accomplishing.

We are a lot safer because of all of your efforts.

God Bless You & God Bless America!


Meyac
Cool... glad you are "on the case", so to speak.

Cheers!

my bad
I meant Clozapine, and Lithium can also be used for depression as well as bipolar. Just wanted to set the record str8!

Meyac
I think you left out Haldol & Closapine, I'm sure it was only a slip, but quite relevant for one in his mental state! Lithium is only for the bi-polar.

Calling all Patriots
Get on board
http://www.freedomswatch.org/

YLG
I could not help but get that out of his last post. I usually pass on his bable but today I broke my own SOP. Shallow Hal was up to his usual banter also as you can see.

There is a patition going out started by a Lt. Nichols asking congress to not pull us out of Iraq. I signed it. Check it out I think its on the net now.

Meyac
That was poetic.

It actually brought tears to my eyes. Probably because I am laughing too hard.

;-)

Roberts statement, read between the line

MED: Lithium
Five Star hotel on the beach!: Sanatorium some where on a lake in Colorado.
Wonder Woman: Ward Nurse
Wonder Womans parents who will bring the kids out to meet us...: On call phsyc docter who has writen the order for the ward nurse to push lithium to patient x2 times daily.
Getting to know the two "youngsters": Robert mumbling to his other two personnas until he passes out due to the affects of the heavy dose of meds he was just forced to take by Wonder Woman/Ward Nurse.
You all can rest comfortable in the knowledge that you are helping to pay for "our fun". LOL: Yes because this freak is at a state institution run totally off public funding.



Does anyone else see the redundancy
in this statement that I do?

"I will be "OFF" for a bit"
ROTFL

Amarillo is
in the TX panhandle, for someone who claims to live in TX, that is the most idiotic statement I've ever heard. McCain beats the Heck out of Obama! we would be up an unsanitary dissentary without any means of motivation if BHusseinO would be elected!

But I must agree to have you represent anyone is a SCARY THOUGHT! A

Thank you
jdw: right you are, I also think that he should be called on any comments that do not pass the smell test. I can also vouch for your statement of being in the military is not a certain testament to intelligence, myself being a prime example if you asked some of my associates although in my own opinion they are very biased in their opinions of their fellow Indian.

Primus54: I am waiting for a legitimate example as to this person’s bonfire ID when he makes such illustrious statements as to his military expertese and qualifications. I was just giving two simple web searched examples as templates for anyone who wished to explore his claims farther. Trust through verification. I meant no offence to anyone save any imposters who seem to gravitate to this forum.

Robert
Whatever floats your boat....

Have you been "ARRAINGED"? Really??

Interesting.....

wobbie: whatever floats your boat???
.

John Kerry
Wrote the following book HIMSELF, then when he ran for presidency, he used Teresa Heinz Kerry's money to have it pulled from every bookstore and library accessible! It is "The New Soldier" by JOHN KERRY published in 1971.

It's ironic that Mrs. Kerry dropped the name Kerry and reverted to Ms. Heinz! She speaks 5 languages and they own 5 homes to the value of approximately $35mil, a yacht worth $1mil, and a plane worth $35mil itself. Ms. Heinz net worth is guessed to be $1billion and John Kerry is the manager of the Forbes trust, so he is not a pauper but compared to her, his is a pittance.

http://freekerrybook.com/THENEWSOLDIERPHOTOS.PDF
http://freekerrybook.com/

His real last name is KOHN, a Jewish name, but fearing anti-Semitism, his grandparents changed their name to Kerry which sounded Irish and converted from Judaism to Catholicism. They came from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. I cannot blame them for this given the sentiments of the day, they were protecting their family.

Kerry was only protecting his IDEAS! His mother was a FORBES, yes the wealthy Forbes family and he was anti-war! The documentary film Sir! No Sir! includes footage of John Kohn Kerry at the demonstration seen throwing his medals over the fence at the United States Capitol Bldg.

Frobusto
Yeah, whatever...

I "suceed" (sic) at many things that have "alluded" (sic) you.

Another "flame out" for the fraud...

Meyac
I appreciate your attempts to legitimize Hal Donahue's bona-fides, however a cursory glance at your pasted quote already rings hollow, as I'm sure our "Hal Donahue" would have to be born no later than 1937 to have served in NAVAIR beginning in 1955, assuming he was 18 years old at the time, which begs the question of when he fit college into his resume.

And I'm also quite certain he would have mentioned his tenure as an aviator were that the case. He has not been shy about posting other so-called military experience - although he won't provide links to anything other than his self-penned biography at his HuffPost blog.

The onus is on him - and until he provides some evidence to the contrary (he won't), and resemblance between him and the person whose biography you have posted exists only in name.

BTW - your comments about Robert are right on!

referred to Primus54?
"perhaps you will suceed at this, something no doubt that has alluded you elsewhere."

"Alluded" means "referred to".

"Eluded" means escaped.

Meyac,, I don't care
If Hal Donahue led the Jews out of Egypt...

If he's wrong, I'm going to argue with him.

Being in the military, while it deserves respect for putting your butt on the line to defend the U.S., is no guarantee of commonsense or even particular intelligence.

I'm not saying he's stupid or lacks sense, I'm saying I reserve the right to make that judgment and argue with him accordingly.

It's a variation of the victim card. Can't criticize McCain because he was a guest of the NVA.

(off-topic, but it occurred to me.. when did he adopt that child? When was it born? Could it be possible that it's really Vietnamese, the child of one of the prostitutes McCain was alleged to have been given? I don't believe it, but I bet the Democrats bring it up in the general election...)

It would be impossible
"Because I found it astounding that a 4 year old would have a computer on his schoolroom desk in 1980."

In 1980, children didn't go to school until they were 5.

But a Sinclair is a British computer, so maybe he is British and maybe the Brits put their kids in school as soon as they drop, like we do today.

In 1980, my highschool got its first computer; a TRS-80 Model I with level II BASIC. About 5 times the price of a Sinclair, iirc.

Two Responses....
(been looking for an excuse to broach this topic, amazing how quiet TH and the media have been)

"This just doesn't happen. We fight to win. And hold our ground. No matter the odds or consequences. Those are the lessons taught to us by our brave predecessors of Vietnam, Korea and World Wars I and II."

1)Napoleon's elite troops, the Old Guard, had a motto.

"The Old Guard dies, but never retreats."

At Waterloo, they didn't retreat.


2) Yes, U.S. marines fight to win, and hold their ground...

ESPECIALLY WHEN THE "ENEMY" IS A HELPLESS PUPPY.

Sorry, I'll treat any marine I encounter with contempt until this despicable incident is punished very very publicly; preferably involving hanging or at least trying to survive 5 minutes in a room alone with me and the video of that atrocity playing.

Marines hate being called "soldiers". I've always objected our soldiers being called "warriors" because a warrior is nothing but a bloodthirsty savage who fights for the sadistic pleasure of it; a soldier stands for something, defends something.

But you win. Marines are warriors.

Robert & the swifboaters
WHATEVER!! AND I know more political powers than you could get near! Don't push me!

Lt. Col. Hal Donahue: cont.
Furthermore I do not agree with his opines on subjects here at TH or his politics but do defend his right to make them. He should not be linked in any way with an imposter such as Robert/Wobbie/pilot, other than democrat allegence. I used no less than a name search on a public database from my personnal laptop which anyone could do,no deeper vetting could or even should be done to a private citizen without either their permission or probable cause in a crime. I did not use my government computer or database although this to could have been done if I wanted to get an invitation to stand before the man and suffer possible courts marshall procedings. The rest of the Leftist floatsome that have infested this forum to spew your socialist talking points and unAmerican sediments can go strait to hades. You have neither the honor nor courage to even be heard or seen here or any place else decent.

Lt. Col. Hal Donahue: cont.
I may have oversteped my authority to do this bit of investigation but I believe that this arguement needs to end. What I have viewed about this man and his service to our country if this is him is exceptional to say the least. If he is who he says he is and it would be easy for him to prove several ways which we all know, then he is totally entitled to the statements posted here with out being ridiculed and called lier.

fact find on who is Lt. Col. Hal Donahue
David Bellavia, Outstanding column. Keep up the great work on TH and with the VFF.
As to the true ID of Lt. Col Hal Danahue USAF or USN.
Golden Eagle NOTAMSA superb pilot and warrior, Col Donahue was designated Naval Aviator # 9018 on .... Hal served in BUAER and then NAVAIR from 1955 to 1986, and advanced to
or
Democrat Taylor Marsh Broadcasts Live Talk Radio and Blogs Politics STATEMENT FROM Hal Donahue, Lt. Col. USAF (retired) ... That said, I have spoken personally with Lt. Col. Hal Donahue USAF (retired) who is quite something ...
Is this you Hal Donahue? If it is not then please refrain from posting that you are.
If it is, thank you for your service and all arguement as to your true ID should be ceased as of this day.

Hey Primus
I'm sure that your paper would be much more accurate as we've all seen multiple examples of how Wobbie is a twisted, self important, narcasistic, sociopath(sp). Kinda like his hero, Billy Bob Clinton.

But now in addition to all of his other amazing simultaneous occupations, he owns and run a private business here in the U.S., while serving in the Navy in Iraq.
Or is that the UK since he made a comment about currently being there yesterday?

I'm more inclined to think that he's really in a padded cell somewhere in Colorado.

But, I'm still curious, as is M.D. as to how Wobbie "Whipped him at every turn."
And as usual, the lying little coward won't tell us how he's accomplished this.

Most likely because he knows we'd all IMMEDIATELY see right thru whatever lies he tells to back up that whopper, just like we see thru all his other lies.

But then us "far right wingers" are good at seeing thru the lies of liberals posing as Republicans.
Or insignificant, self important little twits like Wobbie.

YLG & Primus: About poor wretched,

tragic, pathetic, demented little creature... wobbie....


I've been doing some thinking.

We all KNOW wobbie is delusional and somewhat deranged, and shows all the signs of being OCPD, among many other mental disorders (the list is too long to note here.)

He can't spell as well as my almost 5yr. old grandson, and his posts are, for the most part, INCOHERENT.

He's WRONG about almost everything he posts (except when he copies and pastes.)

He's been BUSTED and caught in lies and fabrications so many times we've ALL LOST COUNT.

He's been OBSESSED about USMC LIEUTENANT for MONTHS, obviously because USMC LIEUTENANT is a success, and wobbie is a loser...

It's clear that he's getting more and more delusional and out of touch (Republican delegate, indeed!) and is probably very close to going "around the bend" or "off the cliff" so to speak...

I think we should consider just dismissing him, and leaving him alone until he's arrested for impersonating an officer. At least there will be something to arrest.







Yeah, Robert...
... sure. Whatever you say.

I'm writing a paper too. It's called "A Research of Multiple Personality Disorder as Diagnosed Through Pathological Dishonesty and Bush Derangement Syndrome".

Good news for you, Robert. You are not only contributing, you are the key subject of study. Congratulations!

BTW, Colorado is "in country" for most all of us.

Robert
Not a "nit", just a fun way to start my day.

I do find it odd that, while saving our country, you have time to run a private business, work on a thesis for another Ph.D., and spend untold hours posting here. Yet, you do not have the capacity to find a simple "SpellCheck" program, or learn basic rules of grammar.

To answer your last word, I do enjoy it...immensely.

Frobusto writes:
"But just as "Sowich' on the Edwards blog was far left and couldnt admit it...you are far right. amd a useful part of my research..."

Bwahahahaha!!!

My God, Robert - are you back into that "research paper" bull-squeeze?

Let me see if I got this straight. You claim to be an active duty US Navy Captain - who is supposedly writing a research paper for his superior, who one must assume is at least a commanding Captain or perhaps an Admiral.

And you want the good people here at Townhall to seriously believe that such a person is spending Defense Dept dollars on you writing a research paper on politics?

This is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner, Robert.

That sound you hear is the collective sounds of the many TH regulars snickering behind your back - knowing you don't even realize it while it's happening.

Robert
Can't seem to stop rising to the bait?

Keep trying to pigeon-hole me. It doesn't bother me. Honestly, it seems to keep you busy, and many here are entertained by it. By the way, it is "ROUTINELY", not "ROUTINLY", "OTHERS", not "OTHERSE", and "THWARTING", not "THRAWRTING".

Time to work on punctuation....


Taft
I just bet it is!!!

High of 72* for us....but a little cloudy. Can't have it all today!

YLG
THanks YLG, here in California it's going to be a very nice day.

halD
"I think a Sinclair but I am not certain. Why?"
Because I found it astounding that a 4 year old would have a computer on his schoolroom desk in 1980. I still think it's a bit of a stretch, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

As to the rest of your 6:05pm post, I agree with you that the folks who get up every day and go to work and raise their families, the Dads and Moms who show up, are heroes. Not sure what that has to do with the topic, but it's altogether true and a good sentiment. Would that our society celebrated it rather than some of the other things the pop culture seems to idolize.

Taft
Just wanted to wish you a good morning!

Hope you have a relatively calm day!

;-)

Robert
The most hanious example of what far right groups are capable of happened in Arkansas when Huskabee released a serial rapist because he had only raped a relative of Clinton.

Robert
Back to the paper, are you?

I am trying to HELP you!

You do not know my political affiliation, who I wish to see as my Commander-in-Chief, even what beer I prefer. Frankly, you are starting to become a little unraveled. Attacking me as a member of the "Far Right" shows you to be a little desperate.

Oh, and it is "SCHEDULE", not "SKEDULE". Even your Brit friends would correct you there.

Have fun with your paper. Just make sure to have someone else proofread it.

AF_retiree_2001
I asked earlier and noone responded but isn't Iraq a catch 22? As long as we stay we're not defeated but if we go, even though we've done everything we set out to do, then we are defeated? The longer we stay, the longer it makes Bin Ladin a happy man.

AF_retiree_2001: YOU are absolutely

right!

It is so sad that there are those who will so willingly denigrate our troops, and we do not take kindly to that here one TH...



Back to the Topic...
"We continue to defend our sacrifices almost five years to the day since we were sent to war in Iraq. Our brothers and sisters in the Afghanistan conflict are approaching year seven. Still we have partisans and defeatists climbing over themselves to define what it is we fight against and why it is important to leave before victory is achieved.

By railing against the surge, by cheapening the success on the ground today in Iraq, these shameful Moveon.org-controlled senators and representatives have bet against our Warrior Class in America. As members of that fraternity, my peers and I again are pushing back against this infectious defeatism.

In the name of partisan election cycle politics, television commercials and campaign talking points are now openly designed to sap the will of the American people. This is an effort to take from veterans the honorable and attainable victory our beloved friends gave their lives in exchange. Like the Islamist threat overseas, this dogma will be met head on. We cannot allow the selfish advancement of political agendas to transcend the blood sacrifices made in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Bet on this... we will not be defeated."

David Bellavia, Amen! to that.

Robert
I was not arguing your point. One cannot argue with a genetic malformity on someone's head.

One reason people like me "obsess" about spelling and syntax, is that your errors detract from whatever argument you choose to type here.

So, as a favor to you, I will counsel you to find the "ABC Check" tab above.

Taking some grammar lessons would not hurt your cause, either.

And wobbie, yes, accuracy IS important

and you should work on YOUR accuracy, or gross LACK thereof... A LOT!


Oh wobbie: Pa-lease! YLG focused on


"While David Weekley exists in that context, "David Weekly" does not.

The "SpellCheck" button, was only an aside that YOU focused on.

Heck, YOU'VE been not just focusing on, but obsessed with my spelling error for MONTHS and MONTHS!


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA





Robert
While David Weekley exists in that context, "David Weekly" does not.

Still haven't found the dastardly "SpellCheck" button, have you?

Ha! wobbie gets busted again...

and get testy, churlish, and cantankerous.

Don't you just HATE it when you've been caught and busted???

Learn to relax and laugh at yourself a little. Heaven knows WE laugh at you... :-)






You should be proud...
Robert writes: "The twins took the oppurtunity to do a very nice video when they kind of did their thing...Trading their flight gear for "4 inch heels" and other "accutraments" to a nice tune and doing a little "Jig" across the flight deck with all the crew..."

You've taught your boys how to cross-dress like you, like you said in a former thread post. What an accomplishment, one that we can all actually believe!

Robert
FYI I live near Camp LeJeune the largest Marine Base in the world I can bring a whole slew of Navy officers over to kick your BUTT that WW can easily find and believe me they'll find it even easier, grow up and grow a set!

David Weekly does not exist, but Stephen Weekly does, want to try again, you are so lame, you could make a one man w/out legs look like he was running! And having lived in Corpus Christi, I still have friends there, I can check your so called claims on that as well, if you have twins I'm very sorry if they are your offspring!

Mac Moore
I already explained it on the 12:07 post. You've made it abundantly clear that you are not intelligent enough to understand what was written. For your sake, quit embarrassing yourself.

Good night.


campagnolo Repeats Emotional Pap
Campagnolo offers as to soldier loses under Clinton being 937 a year a natural occurance in peach versus Bush's being 1465 for war, "Nobody suggested that. That statement is proof that you are not capable of basic reading comprehension, and continue to further cloud the issue by your display of ignorance."

So, you can not explain the difference. Why did you bother responding if you do not know?

Mac Moore
You write "So, all of Clinton's losses were natural causes and accidents and under Bush there was no accidents or natural causes."

Nobody suggested that. That statement is proof that you are not capable of basic reading comprehension, and continue to further cloud the issue by your display of ignorance.

GO TO THE LINK

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

scroll down to page 11, and figure it out.


Clintons Loses Were Accidents Not Bush's
campagnolo offers as to Clinton losing 937 soldiers a year during peace versus Bush losing 1465 a year during war, "Here is an example for your apparently limited reading comprehension:
The 937 "lost" under Clinton were of natural causes and accidents."

So, all of Clinton's losses were natural causes and accidents and under Bush there was no accidents or natural causes. It was all war. Amazing. I am glad Clinton did not have a war. What with his record such a thing would have nearly killed us all.

Now, logically, one might think that the standard loss for natural causes and accidents might be 937 and war would be the difference between the 1465 and 937. But, you seem to know best.

Sam...I think Townhall decided Anne
Would make a good facilitator to further the NEOCON agenda. Perhaps they are paranoid about losing control??? LOL

Most Collectivists always feel threatened in a forum that provides the free expression of ideas. LOL :O))

Robert
You ARE WRONG again, there are Officers who don't have degrees, you wouldn't know that tho' because you aren't in Iraq!

As far as John Kerry and his stupid comment "You can get an education or you can get stuck in Iraq." He is the one who SELF-IMPOSED superficial wounds to get out of Vietnam, because he couldn't take the heat!

Then, he threw his medal in a heap at a protest, which mysteriously Clinton gave him one to run for office with. Ever read the book about the Real John Kerry? Know how many people who actually served w/him said they would NEVER vote for him, because they knew he did NOT get his wounds from any enenmy, unless he's his OWN enemy! He marries into money and then more money.

Robert writes: Saturday @ 11:54 PM...You and WW have fun finding your Butt, I'm sure the velcro works wonders! Not to mention sitting on it posting all day makes it an easy target.

Sir Aslan Prefers Populist Fodder
Sir Aslan offers as to how to measure how many countries have no respect for USA, "why should I honor such an stupid question with an answer anyhow?"

So, you have no evidence, just emotional fodder. Fair enough.

Mac Moore
Are you trying to be obtuse? Did you read any of the explanation at all? (don't bother answering...that's a rhetorical question).

Here is an example for your apparently limited reading comprehension:
The 937 "lost" under Clinton were of natural causes and accidents. They would have happened no matter who or what was President, given the active duty military population at that time. For instance, a fellow shipmate of mine died while running the 1.5 mile physical readiness test in 1994. He would be one of the 937 (actual figure 1040) that was "lost" under Clinton that year. Not exactly Clinton's fault.

Please...don't hurt yourself trying to figure this out. It really is quite easy to understand.





What do you expect from him Str8t Talk
I mean really?

Wobbie's jealous of a much younger person who has accomplished in a short time what he'll NEVER accomplish.
Refering to me as "Dad" is just his way of showing his envy by refusing to acknowledge my son or what he's accomplished.

It's nothing more than the way he disrespects, out of sheer jealousy, every other past and present member of the Armed Forces that posts here on a regular basis.

I mean for God's sakes, the worm STILL hasn't been able get over Anne's typo on the letters of UCMJ.


And that doesn't even count all of his spelling and Grammatical errors, like using "latter" for later and "Then" for than.
But yet he knows so much more than we do(just ask him), no matter what the subject.

Unless, of course, the subject is telling the truth. Then he doesn't know SQUAT.

Another Queen Anne "Strawman" ????
Mac Moore writes:

"I asked a simple question, what is your measure for the count of countries that have lost respect for the USA. If you have no idea, do not have a temper tantrum. Just admit it is just an emotional statement."


Sir Aslan writes:

Mac Attack,
I am laughing too hard to have a temper tantrum and by the way...its interesting that you have totally turned what I wrote into another Queen Anne "Strawman" in order to further your absurd agenda...why should I honor such an stupid question with an answer anyhow? If you don't know by now then there is probably no hope for you anyhow...most everyone else posting here understands what I wrote except you. ?? LOL

Taft writes
"What's more what do you do if your an 8 month old baby who gets a bomb dropped on you from Israeli missiles?

WTF? Is this any worse than a suicide bomber killing innocent people? Your post is perfect example of using emotion to prove a point...
Dude start using your brain instead of your heart...

Clinton Lost 937a year In Peace!!!
campagnolo writes, "War hasn't mitigated the death rate. 1465 deaths a year is greater than 937 a year. See how that works?"

So, let me get this straight, Clinton lost 937 a year during peace. Bush has lost 1456 a year during a war. Clinton manged to lose over half as many soldiers with no war? Holy Cow, what a calamity! How did he manage that?

If that number is standard for peace, war loses 528. But, I am sure Clinton was an over-producer.

Sam..I was thinking the same thing??
She is viral anti-Paul and really it makes no sense that a normal person would be that delusional and the fact that she appears to have a free pass to insult just about anyone to the point of gutter filth without any repercussions makes you wonder.

It certainly does fit the Pig family though...that is...its either Ham or baloney!! LOL :O))

Sir Aslan Has No Evidence
Sir Aslan asks, "What tha Hades are you rambling about? Populist what? Man you need another bowl of oatmeal to bring down your cholesterol."

I asked a simple question, what is your measure for the count of countries that have lost respect for the USA. If you have no idea, do not have a temper tantrum. Just admit it is just an emotional statement.

Mac Moore...Another Queen Anne Surogate?
What tha Hades are you rambling about? Populist what? Man you need another bowl of oatmeal to bring down your cholesterol.

Typical Queen Anne fashion..create a strawman and then attack.

How much do you and Queen Anne followers get paid to do this kind of stuff.??

Mac Moore
I think you are getting confused about the statistics. War hasn't mitigated the death rate. 1465 deaths a year is greater than 937 a year. See how that works?

It’s not that hard to figure out. Given any substantial population there is going to be an associated death rate of some percent given to various causes (natural ,accidental, homicides, etc.). These deaths cannot fairly be attributed to a President, as they would happen if even a chimpanzee were elected...

The greater annual deaths under Reagan and Bush Sr. merely reflect a greater population of active duty members.

The difference between Clinton and Bush Jr. are almost exclusively the result of the deployment of troops in two combat theaters by Bush Jr., since military manpower has not grown substantially between administrations.

If you take out the combat deaths given on the chart over the 2001-2006 period, the other types of deaths are very similar. E.G., accidental deaths per annum under Clinton 494. Under Bush Jr. 520.



Rockhead J . Squirrel babbles:
will tell you what
Lumberjack7392 writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 11:44 PM ...

if I ever cant find my "rear end"...and Wonder Woman cant find it either, I'll call you ! LOL

But not to worry...first off I can always find it and WW can find it even blindfolded!

I am sure that is sad news for you! LOL

Show me the Way to Amarillo I do owe Jacker and Whizzer something...Of course I recall when we did something similar...on the old lex...and the Twins Grandfather had the boat!

paybacks..

Robert

What ever the f#ck that nonsense means. Good night to all except SOBAAO (Smug, Arrogant, Bloviating, Arrogant, Anal Orifice) known as Robert.

Robert you are a
PHONY! If you don't have a father of your own, don't go around being all familiar with someone else's dad as if you know them personally! You are the lowest life I've known and unfortunately I've known some pretty lowlifes! I know your history! I know that you couldn't hold a candle to Marine's Dad or his progeny!

So, if you don't have any real parents, don't try to act as if someone else's are yours, you are despicable and sick! We all KNOW you couldn't pass the naval training camp because you can't even spell. You are in violation of imitating an officer and I believe you've been warned on numerous occasions to lay off. If Chris Regal thinks this one through, you'll be GONE for Good! You insulting little...

Clinton Lost 937 SoldiersaYear In Peace?
Robert offers, The military consist of over 1.X million people (somewhat more during some of Clinton's years)..."

So, how did he manage to have 937 soldiers killed, without a war, during his watch? That is impressive.

Sir Aslan Offers Populist Rumor.
Sir Aslan offers, "This is one reason so many other countries of the world have started to lose respect for the United States."

This should be interesting. How about a measure? 100 years ago, how many countries had no respect for USA? 75 years ago, how many countries had no respect for USA?..50 years ago? ... 25 years ago? ... 10 years ago?

My guess is that you are making an emotional statement, not based in any reality other than it feels right and fits your argument.

The USA is not the only country that has politics. Every country plays political gamesmanship. It is wise not to take such political positioning as a measure of respect. There is hardly a country in the world that does not negotiate to have an amicable/trade relationship with the USA. You can bet on that. Now, that is respect.

Robert
You could not find your a$$ with a map, a mirror, a flashlight, and a GPS locator, much less Amarillo. BTW, tell I Wonder If She Is A Woman that I teach college level history, and I lecture without notes. Said ability amazes my Department Head BTW what is the differencePosse Comitatus Act and the Constitution?

Drama Queen Anne of Townhall
By now most everyone is used to Anne the know-it-all Drama Queen of Townhall. I laugh so hard sometimes when she wraps herself in the American Flag and especially when she decides by whim of decree that some of us have no opinions worthy of consideration.

She has a small following of so called super patriots who stand self righteous and wreak of odeous stupidity and arrogance. This is the kind of attitude that is dangerous to our democracy by virtue of their freedom to try and limit the Freedom of others while they themselves are usually given a pass to spill their ignorance which allows them to continue spewing their hatred against anyone who disagrees with them or will stand up to their mediocrity and ignorance. This is one reason so many other countries of the world have started to lose respect for the United States.

The only time the U. S. looses
is when the media driven politicians interfere in military maters, and are scared of our victories because that would unmask them and reveal their cowardness.


Are Statistics Lying To Us?
campagnolo offers as to military deaths,
"Reagan: 17,201 (2150 yearly)
Bush Sr. 6223 (1555 yearly)
Clinton 7500 (937 yearly)
Bush Jr. 8792 (1465 yearly).
And those are total deaths which include non combat accidents, illnesses, homicides, suicides, etc. According to the chart there was only 1 hostile action death under Clinton."

According to this, war has mitigated impact. Clinton, during years of nearly absolute peace managed 937 yearly deaths? How is that?

Drama Queen Anne of Townhall
By now most everyone is used Anne the know-it-all Drama Queen of Townhall. I laugh so hard sometimes when she wraps herself in the American Flag and especially when she decides by whim of decree that some of us have no opinions worthy of consideration.

She has a small following of so called super patriots who stand self righteous and wreak of odeous stupidity and arrogance. This is the kind of attitude that is dangerous to our democracy by virtue of their freedom to try and limit the Freedom of others while they themselves are usually given a pass to spill which allows them to continue spewing their hatred against anyone who disagrees with them or will stand up to their mediocrity and ignorance. This is one reason so many other countries of the world have started to lose respect for the United States.

Agreed Lumberjack
But I'm dying of curiosity to know how the Sad Sack managed to beat me when I'm the one who's had him banned from this site at least 20 times.

It's just too bad that they can't find a way to make it stick. But that still isn't an example of him "whipping me."
That's an example of moderators not having the ability to keep undesirable pond scum out of their forum.

Fact check for Anne
You have completely misrepresented and miscalculated the statistics from the FAS.org site.

The breakdown goes as follows:

Reagan: 17,201 (2150 yearly)
Bush Sr. 6223 (1555 yearly)
Clinton 7500 (937 yearly)
Bush Jr. 8792 (1465 yearly)

And those are total deaths which include non combat accidents, illnesses, homicides, suicides, etc.

According to the chart there was only 1 hostile action death under Clinton.


Marines' Dad writes:
Just be watching over your shoulder Wobbie, THE LAW(DHS, FBI, Naval Intelligence to name a few) is about to catch up with you, when you least expect it.

When you're in prison for impersonating an officer in the US Navy and disparaging your civilian leadership while claiming to be one, THEN you can tell us all, AGAIN, how you "whipped me at every turn."

Rockhead J. Squirrel just ain't worth the the increased hypertension he causes.
last night on the
Prelutsky thread he basically said
I was senile, and should not call him by anything but his name, even though he has no problem calling us names. I pointed out that most posters here consider him contemptible, and an overbearing a$$, and that as soon as as someone claims experience in a career field he immediately claims not only the same experience but superior experience. He told me I needed to read the Constitution because I once made a mistake about the 12th Amendment, which I admitted as soon as I discovered my error. Rockhead J. Squirrel still does not know the difference between the Constitution and the Posse Comitatus Act. Basically RJS is a Sad Sack __ ____.

Poor wobbie, you don't get it....

It's YOU who is having a psychotic life...

At some point you need to admit to yourself that you're a small, pathetic, loser who is just simply jealous of USMC Lt. who has accomplished something in his young life....and you haven't.

If you weren't such a loser, you wouldn't be so obsessed..

Do yourself and everyone else a big favor, and give it a rest.




The lying coward can't back up his words
Robert writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 11:10 PM
No need to it is
Dad writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 10:54 PM ...

obvious..

show me the way to Amarillo
!

Robert



Just as I suspected.

If it's so obvious Wobbie, show us where you did it. You seem to be the only one that can see it.

You're so stupid Wobbie
That you haven't even figured out yet that I'm NOT your dad.
But rest assured that IF I was you would have beeon one of the very first Post Partum Abortions ever performed.

Oh, and if referring to me as "Jeffs Dad" is one of the ways that you've "whipped me at every turn," then you'd better try harder because that's not "whipping" anything or anybody.

That's just showing what a moron you are.

wobbie writes: That should be the deaths

under Clinton...not the KIA's...."

Yes, wobbie, that's exactly what the figures are... KIAs...

What did you think it was? People killed in auto accidents? Or maybe the associates and those employed by the Clintons who met untimely deaths...all of which were suicide, like Vince Foster?

Sorry, I should have explained that to you. Heaven knows, YOU wouldn't know that unless someone explained it to you...




Ah halD: YOU were the idiot who brought

up the injured in Walter Reed... Remember?

Probably not... You can't keep your stories straight...Ha Ha Ha




Standshisground
If you were a Palestinian, what would you do. Say the electricity and medical supplies are cut off and your country is surrounded by 20 foot cement walls? Sort of hard to reach out of that poverty, no? What's more what do you do if your an 8 month old baby who gets a bomb dropped on you from Israeli missiles?

Village idiot says what??
Robert writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 9:48 PM

"I hope for your sake that you are more effective in engaging him then "Jeffs Dad" was with me. I've whipped him at every turn."

Robert


OH REALLY NOW????
And just how have you done that you little worm?

When you answer, if you have the scrotum to even try, BE SURE give us ALL of the details about how you've done this, I'm dying to know how a WIMPY LITTLE MAGGOT COWARD was able to "whip me at every turn."

Especially since you're too much of a MF'ing COWARD to come face me in person.

Just be watching over your shoulder Wobbie, THE LAW(DHS, FBI, Naval Intelligence to name a few) is about to catch up with you, when you least expect it.

When you're in prison for impersonating an officer in the US Navy and disparaging your civilian leadership while claiming to be one, THEN you can tell us all, AGAIN, how you "whipped me at every turn."

Oh, And I Forgot My New Mission
Hal Donahue asks, "Why are you not in?"

Also, since so much time has passed since I was "in", I married she-who-must-be-obeyed and she has gotten quite used to a life-style that is hard to buy while in service.