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Thursday, May 08, 2008
Dave Kopel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Gun Owners For Hillary?
by Dave Kopel
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(In the May issue of the new Townhall Magazine, long-time Second Amendment defender, Dave Kopel exposes the clandestine strategy being employed to rob you of your right to bear arms. The Left believes that they can distract you with the national debate over gun rights while they make their move at the local level. Townhall Magazine exposes their plans before it's too late. Click here to receive a free copy of Townhall Magazine.)

If you doubt the transformational power of Barack Obama, consider the change that he’s effected on Hillary Clinton. The New York Senator came into the 2008 race with a nearly perfect anti-gun rights voting record, following her White House tenure on behalf of the most aggressively anti-Second Amendment administration in American history. Yet today, her candidacy survives because of the pro-gun vote.

A Tuesday loss in Indiana would have ended the race. But she eked out a 2% victory by carrying the votes of gun-owning households (who made up half of the electorate) in a 22% landslide. In Pennsylvania, her ten-point win brought in ten million dollars of cash that she needed to keep going. Her 25% margin in gun-owning households of the Keystone State (a third of the electorate) turned what would have been a close contest into a runaway.

In North Carolina, she was crushed by Obama. Yet among gun-owning households, she actually won the state by 3%, her 15 point loss being attributable to Obama’s margin in the non-gun households.

Even before the final Indiana results had even been counted, a Clinton campaign press release crowed about her demonstrated appeal to gun owners.

In the final days before Indiana, the Clinton campaign sent a targeted mailing to Hoosier gun owners. It pointed out that Obama claimed to support the Second Amendment, and promised not to take away people’s guns. But, as the mailing noted, Obama had endorsed handgun prohibition in 1996. The mailer also reminded voters about Obama’s comment to a wealthy San Francisco crowd that economically distressed people in small towns in the Midwest “cling” to guns because they are “bitter.”

The Clinton mailing wasn’t pitch-perfect. It featured a picture of a beautiful rifle, a 66 Mauser. The Mauser costs about $2,200, and sports a double trigger, an accessory rarely found on American guns, but more typical of Western Europe, where the firearms market is more geared to custom guns for the aristocracy, as opposed to America’s off-the-racks guns for the masses.

Even so, gun-owning Hoosiers apparently got the message that Obama’s claims to support the Second Amendment individual right were “just words.” Despite Obama’s purported support for the Second Amendment, he has lately been refusing to say whether or not he thinks the District of Columbia’s handgun ban is constitutional. Yet last November, his campaign released a statement declaring that Obama considers the handgun ban constitutional, and to be a “common sense” local anti-violence policy.

During the debate just before Pennsylvania, Obama again refused to answer a direct question about the D.C. ban, claiming that he has a policy of not commenting on pending cases. But in another case that was pending before the Court—a challenge to Indiana’s law requiring voters to present a current photo ID—Obama had signed onto an amicus brief arguing that that ID law was unconstitutional.

---
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Exit polls show that a large fraction of voters are concerned about Obama’s relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The Obama campaign counters that voters should just look at Obama’s policies, and that Obama hasn’t adopted the pastor’s policies.

Yet on the gun issue, there’s a close parallel between one of Obama’s close spiritual advisors and Obama’s own anti-rights extremism. An April 5, 2004, article about Obama in the Chicago Sun-Times, reported, “Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn--Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, he [Obama] says.” The Obama campaign touted Pfleger as one of several prominent ministers endorsing Obama.

Father Pfleger is well-known to Chicagoland gun owners for his picketing of Chuck’s Gun Shop, in the town of Riverdale, which borders Chicago’s south side. There being no gun stores in Chicago, Chuck’s is the closest gun store to the Windy City. Pfleger and his picketers demand that the Riverdale city council outlaw all gun stores in the city. “Vote Riverdale gun dry,” they chant.

Obama’s compass points in the same directions as Pfleger’s. When running for the U.S. House in 1999, Barack Obama called for a federal law banning all gun stores within five miles of a school or park. This would implement the Pfleger “gun dry” plan nationwide, outlawing gun stores from almost city or town in America.

Senator Clinton no more deserves gun-owner votes than Lord Voldemort deserves the Muggle vote. In the Senate, she has voted in favoring of abusive lawsuits against law-abiding gun manufacturers, for banning cosmetically incorrect guns which are falsely labeled “assault weapons,” and for allowing federal funds to be used to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens after a natural disaster—as was done following Hurricane Katrina.

Her lone pro-Second Amendment vote was for a national bill allowing retired police officers, under stringent licensing conditions, to carry concealed handguns in all fifty states.

Yet Senator Clinton’s childhood in the Midwest, and her decades in Arkansas, have apparently given her the ability to project an impression of at least slight understanding of American gun culture, a culture which Obama seems to regard with a condescending detachment like that of a 19th-century Oxford anthropologist examining a tribe of Amazonian headhunters.

Thus, the Democratic race continues into June, thanks to Senator Clinton’s iron will, and the most surprising new group in her base: Democratic gun owners and their families.

In the May issue of the new Townhall Magazine, long-time Second Amendment defender, Dave Kopel exposes the clandestine strategy being employed to rob you of your right to bear arms. The Left believes that they can distract you with the national debate over gun rights while they make their move at the local level. Townhall Magazine exposes their plans before it's too late. Click here to receive a free copy of Townhall Magazine.

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About The Author

Dave Kopel is research director at the Independence Institute, an attorney and author of 10 books.

I agree with Dave!
The most important point in the article is simply this:

HILLARY CLINTON DOES NOT DESERVE THE VOTES OF LAWFUL, HONEST AND UPRIGHT GUN OWNERS.

She is simply the lesser of two evils on the Second Amendment issue on the Demoncrat side of the equation.

John McCain, is not the best choice for gun owners either, considering all the candidates who threw their hats into the ring. Senator McCain is merely the lesser of three evils, when concerned with Second Amendment freedoms.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. If lawful gun owners are forced to deal with an anti-Second Amendment Obama Administration or yet another anti-Second Amendment Clinton Administration, but they stayed home on Election Day or even worse, voted for a Democrat, they had better not come crying to me about further firearm restrictions.

While I'm on that subject, only four of every one hundred gun owners are current members of the National Rifle Association. I will no longer listen to complaints from the freeloading 96% of non-NRA gun owners.

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Firearm Instructor
NRA Membership Recruiter

66 MAUSER, Picture is no mistake!
The picture in the Clinton mailer, 66 Mauser, is doubtfully a mistake. The Clintons and Obama hold that guns are for "Event Displays, Historical Purposes and the elite." They are not for you and I. They are not for hunting. They are not for the military even. We need no guns. only proper communication skills. -TBG

Mr. Kopel - Exellent article
I'm a first time reader of your work. Very impressive.

Voter beware! The dem. gun owners you mentioned are my grandparents. They've been accused of being "yellow dog" dems. by my own father. They haven't a clue about the true issues. A local dem. gives them a t-shirt and sponsors a Senior Olympics and they stay on the DNC "hook." They've always voted that way and always will.

Now with B. Hussein Obama on the horizon, I'm not sure what they'll do. Probably still pull the D handle in the voting booth, then complain when the gov't. comes after their deer rifles.

Hilarious
Waht's next? "Monks for Bill"?

Priests can endorse a candidate?
I'm skeptical of the Hussein campaign's claim that a Catholic priest has endorsed Obama. I'm not sure that the Church allows the clergy to make such statements.

Hillary delenda est.

Three blind mice
None of these three candidates supports the Second Amendment. Our only hope is to push for Congressional seats that will hold the line.

66 Mauser
Is the 66 Mauser a double rifle? Or did the inestimable Mr Kopel mean to say that it has a double SET trigger?

Speaking of set triggers, has anyone shot the CZ bolt gun with single set trigger? Thinking of buying one in 308 and was wondering if it shot as sweet as I think should.

AZPhil
You don't remember "Virgins for Bill" during the 96 campaign? LOL!

Will it make a difference?
Will the outcome of the Heller case in the United States Supreme Court make a difference as to what happens to gun rights during the next four years?

Will the expected interpretation of the Second Amendment, that it is indeed a right of individuals, hold an Obama, Clinton or McCain Administration at bay, as far as passing new gun control?

I believe the outcome of the Heller case will indeed hold that the right to keep and bear arms belongs to individuals outside of military service.

I also believe it will clearly state that reasonable controls on firearms are permissable under the Constitution and lastly, I believe that a ban on any kind of firearm will be found to be unconstitutional in the Heller case.

So if we do get a decidedly anti-gun Obama or Clinton Administration, we will be protected to some degree. At least bans and total prohibitions will be off the table. Thank God for Bob Levy!

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com

Well, considering...
...that between Hillary and Obama, Hillary is the one who has been under sniper fire, it stands to reason she is the stronger supporter of gun owners rights.

Right?

I also find it interesting...
...that if the Democrat Party ran their primary elections under the exact same rules as the Republican Party primaries, Hillary Clinton would have already been nominated, simply because she won the states with the higher populations.

The primary race on the left side of the aisle would already have been decided if the Democrats didn't have the primary election process that they do.

Furthermore, the fact that "super-delegates" will probably be deciding this race, goes to show how truly Elitist they are. What's more Elitist than having the votes of elected party fat-cats, count more than the average Joe?

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com
NRA Membership Recruiter

My biggest question
How did they learn the voting in gun-owning families vs. non=gun owning families? In the South, I would bet that 90% or more of the families are gun owners. They just don't like to let the authorities know they have them. In Indiana, they have too many people who want to take their guns to risk letting everyone know they have them. I think this whole poll is off for that reason. When BOTH sides want to take the guns, then there has to be some other reason to vote for (or against) one of them. So I think this entire poll and article are basically a waste of time and money.

NO, NO ...
... NOT this gun owner!

workin4wages:
Some European guns have double triggers to fire one shot. Even some old Western guns did. You have to pull the first one to pull the second one. Generally the first one is the equivalent of a safety and has a high pressure to pull it. But high pull pressures mean that you can throw off the shot, so the second trigger allows you to better aim with a low pressure to pull it. It isn't common in the U.S. for over a hundred years and so isn't something most people think about. If I remember correctly, the rifle used in "Quigly Down Under" had a double trigger arrangement but I won't swear to it now without re-watching the movie.

Marc

If the NRA endorses McCain, they can kiss goodbye my membership.

Reasonable controls?
"I also believe it will clearly state that reasonable controls on firearms are permissable under the Constitution."

It isn't "clearly stated" in the Constitution. How do you come to this conclusion?

Since we will never keep firearms from the hands of those who will commit crimes, what is the point of "reasonable controls on firearms"? On whose reason shall we depend?

She's moving right...
First, she's now a gun supporter. Then, she promised to destroy Iran if they attacked Israel. Now, she's talking about supporting hard working "white" people. With Obama getting 90% of the black vote, she's now targeting the white vote. That's pretty smart actually. I've never heard a politician talk about supporting white people. It's about time that we had our turn at having a politician pander to us. It's actually kind of refreshing.

It won't be long before she's more conservative than McCain. Of course, she doesn't have to move too far right for that to happen.

McCain isn't pro 2nd Amendment Either--
You know that McCain is trying to get your votes right now, and so is trying to paint himself as conservative, but if he were to get elected, you will not have a strong ally in the White House any more than with Obama. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't done much homework on McCain.

Help
Thats what Im screaming as I sit and read this ridiculous claim by Anti-Gun HRC! All three of the bafoons running for president are soft on the 2nd Amendment! How have the American People allowed this to happen? I'll say it, and there is plenty of proof across the world, Loose our Right to Bear Arms and WE WILL LOOSE OUR FREEDOM!!!! History lessons must be a thing of the past in this Country....Heeeeeeeeelp!!!

I first became aware
of McCain when he was pushing legistlation to close a non-existant gun show loophole. He is at best, weak on second ammendment.

Regarding the NRA, I am real close to pulling my membership. They don't defend themselves, nor do they engage gun owner's enemies in the same manner. Popular TV shows flat out say NRA members are evil, the NRA says nothing.

I'm keeping it short here, but I can't tell that the NRA top management wants to win or that they think they can afford to win.

She's Anti-Gun, Anti-Second Amendment
I don't get it either. In West Virginia where it is stated that she will win I have recently been working.

They are some of the most back country sportsmen that there is. Turkey, deer, bear, etc.

The state thrives on hunting and everyone wears camo and has guns in their back window, but they will vote for the most anti-gun senator there is. Hillary Clinton.

I just don't get it. Hope they smarten up.

The Three Stooges
running for Prez are all bad on the gun issue. McCain's only rated a "C" by the NRA, and has still refused to respond to the Gun Values Questionnaire.

As Savetheguns noted, Heller is our best bet for protection of our rights, and it would defang guns as an election issue.

I'm also with Greg in that if the NRA endorses that jackass McCain, I'm canceling my Life Membership. They already misfired on Heller, trying to get the Plaintiffs to pull the case. That was an absolutely idiotic call. They're skating on thin ice with me.

Catholic priest have become
RADICAL LEFTIES!!! Every one I meet bleeds for the scum in the prisons and urges the congregation to donate Christmas cards WITH stamps to inmates!!!! I am taxed to the tune of $70k/year per scumbag to keep them off the streets. THAT'S my donation.

I just had to sit through a night course in college with a philosophy professor who hates Townhall. He says I should get some more "academic sources" for opinion. If I hadn't been waiting for my grade I'd have told him that there are NO conservative academic sources for the most part being largely pointy-headed out of touch ivory tower dwelling dweebs who write papers where all their liberal ideas "magically" work.

When discussing the election he narrowed it down to Hillary or Barack NEVER once mentioning John McCain. When I mentioned his time in Hanoi he snapped "What does wearing a uniform have to do with being President?" I wanted to say that it goes to character which neither Dem has a drop of, but again my grade was in the balance.

The professor is an Archdiosesan priest.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

BrianR
You're right about McCain's record on the 2nd Amendment, but a C is better than the two F's on the other side.

He's made a big promise on SCOTUS nominations and that's where the battle is ultimately going to be won or lost.

In November there will be only two people with any chance of becoming the next president. I'll vote for the one who gives me the best chance to buy a gun when I want to.

Some of you folks ...
... are putting a lot of eggs in the Heller basket. It's nice to be optimistic, but I'll bet that we're going to be disappointed in the Heller decision. I think Heller will win, but the decision will waffle on the main question and we "people" will have the right to keep and bear arms but ... but ... er ...

Boutte's short bus
The Big Mystery: why doesn't Boutte want BO's relationships with Wright, Ayers, Rezko, ACORN, etc. to be issues for public discussion? Gee, what could his motive possibly be for wanting to hide BO's big steaming pile of negatives?

All those who agree with Boutte's premise can pile in with him on BO's "short bus"! Yeah, the one up on cinder blocks that the tumbleweeds are passing by.

Rights under fire
Our rights under the 1st and 2nd Amendment are under fire. As one goes so shall the other. the left is working on removing gun ownership from the American scene. The United Kingdom and Australia have already accomplished the elimination of private ownership of firearms. The result is that the criminals are the only private citizens with firearms. The criminals know that the law abiding are not armed and are now all soft targets. Also, the United Kingdom followed this gun ban with an elimination of the right to self defense under any circumstances. With the advent of domestic terrorism the private citizen needs to remain armed.

Supreme Court Heller Ruling...
"I believe that a ban on any kind of firearm will be found to be unconstitutional in the Heller case."

If 100% accurate, that would mean I could get a Thompson, AK-47, silencer, etc. at a reasonable price, as commercial manufacture for civilian use would resume.

Great!

railfancwb
The quote you mentioned above was mine. I believe it to be factual unless I can be proven wrong, but I highly doubt it.

In your post above, you seem to think that a Thompson 1927A1 .45ACP is now illegal to own, but that my expected outcome of the Heller case would negate that and make them legal again.

I believe that you have been somewhat misled. The National Firearm Act of 1934 was placed in the United States Code under Tax Law, not under criminal law.

In other words, the 1934 "ban" on machine guns, was not a ban at all, but a tax bill, that was meant to place ownership of machine guns well above what an average person could afford.

The $200 tax in the law, was quite a bit of money back then and well exceeded the price of the firearm itself. One can readily purchase a Thompson or full auto AK-47 as long as it was made prior to 1986 and you have a valid Class III license.

Now, that being said, one could pretty easily make the case that the National Firearm Act of 1934 was unconstitutional in its attempt to make machine guns so costly that nobody would be able to afford them.

Funny thing though happened in the next town over from me about ten years ago. There was an Asian drug gang found with two fully automatic machine guns that were imported through the drug trade. I'm guessing they never bothered to get a Class III or pay the tax.

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com
NRA Membership Recruiter

retchemprof
You wrote:

"Some of you folks ...
... are putting a lot of eggs in the Heller basket. It's nice to be optimistic, but I'll bet that we're going to be disappointed in the Heller decision. I think Heller will win, but the decision will waffle on the main question and we "people" will have the right to keep and bear arms but ... but ... er ..."

I think your analysis is correct. After the Heller case is decided on the side of individual rights, there will still be remaining questions. Clearly there are reasonable limits and the Second Amendment is not an absolute right. However, I do believe that outright bans will be found to infringe upon the RKBA.

Going back in time, way back to the English Bill of Rights from 1689, there were clear limits placed on the right to keep and bear arms even way back then.

In the Militia Act of 1792, only a few years after Madison introduced the Bill of Rights to Congress, there were limits on who would be eligible for service in the militias.

So clearly, there are reasonable limits to the Second Amendment. The American people deserve a foursquare and concrete pronouncement on the scope and definition of the Second Amendment and I think we'll largely get that in the next few weeks, however the decision will be carefully and narrowly written and there will still be questions left as to the constitutionality of some laws.

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com


Hillary in Wonderland.
I don't even joke about gun issues. I consider any attempt at pandering to gun owners, as John Kerry did in 2004, to be insulting and duplicitous. Hillary's remarks are disingenuous; "Off with her head"!

SaveTheGuns.com
Hey, "Save", gun owners are not get what the 2nd. Amendment protects from the Supreme Court, Congress, the President, or other political bodies within the states. We are going to have to bring this country to its knees by discouraging our young people from joining the services and becoming law enforcement. In short: "No guns, No sons".

SaveTheGuns.com
Correction: "Hey, "Save", gun owners are not get what the 2nd. Amendment protects.."

Should have read: "Hey, "Save", gun owners are not going to get what the 2nd. Amendment protects..."

Juan Pablo McPain
The NRA will not, under any circustances, endorse
John McCain for the office of president... They
may not speak out against him like they will speak out against the Missus Clintoon and B.O. Hussein, but they will not officially endorse him... Rumor has it that Bob Barr does indeed intend to run for president as a libertarian... If this turns out to be true, well... There in lies the answer on who to vote for !! The NRA WILL endorse Bob Barr, the man has been a stalwart 2nd amendment supporter his entire life.. Show me a conscientous gun owner who would vote for Clintoon, Hussein or McPain.. And I'll show you someone that needs to cut back on the kool-aid...

TeamNRA
Being a registered member and contributor to the Libertarian Party, 30+ year NRA Life Member, and certified NRA instructor , I agree with the sentiments of your post, but see my 6:13 am post.

I believe that most of our fight is still ahead (post Heller) and it's in the Supreme Court. There will be two or three new Justices in the next four years. McCain is the only hope for the right kind of appointments. The following four years will take care of themselves.

N(egotiate)R(ights)A(way)
The NRA has supported every major firearms restriction ever passed. They supported the 1934 NFA, essentially destroying the 2nd amend., they supported the 1968 GCA, burning the carcass of what was left of the 2nd amend., they supported the 1986 ban on the sale of newly manufactured full auot weapons, burying what was left of the 2nd amendment, they supported the Brady Bunch's background check, they supported the newly enacted "Veterans Disarmament Bill". None of these "laws" are Constitutional. What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand? The only time a citizen may be restricted on the possesion of firearms is if he/she is incarcerated or institutionalized, PERIOD!! The NRA is not your friend if you are a true believer in the Constitution and the BOR.

retchemprof
6:13 AM "He's made a big promise on SCOTUS nominations and that's where the battle is ultimately going to be won or lost."

He will not nominate strict constitutionalist judges; they would shoot down McCain/Feingold as a blatant violation of the first amendment. As for the battle ultimately being won or lost in the SCOTUS, I disagree. The battle as you call it, I call it a war, will not be won or lost based on the opinions of the nine in black robes. The nine feces throwing monkeys in black robes are not the final arbiters of the meaning of the written words in the Constitution;

"To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. Their maxim is boni judicis est ampliare jurisdictionem [good justice is broad jurisdiction], and their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves." -Thomas Jefferson to W. Jarvis, 1820

The war, battle if you prefer, will be won the same as all wars are won or lost. The powers that be will not just say “hey we were wrong, sorry” and relinquish that power; they will fight to the death to keep that power. Incrementally they have eroded our rights till they are more like state granted privileges. No, my friend, the “battle” will not be decided by SCOTUS, it will ultimately be decided by the people in this Country.




Gun owners for Hillary
How can the gun owning people of Indiana and Pennsylvania be so naive? Have they forgotten that the Clintons want to take away all guns? Have they forgotten the Clinton Gun Ban? Have they forgotten how Hillary always voted anti-gun? They have been duped by a woman who's only goal is to defeat the Republicans in any way she can, which includes telling lies, saying what she thinks the people what to hear, etc. Or, is it that these Democrats are taking a chance on the lesser (they think) of two evils and have fooled themselves into thinking Hillary will not confiscate their guns than to vote for a Republican who respects the Second Amendment?

I say to you gun owners in Indiana and Pennsylvania - wake up! Read the NRA website and other gun organization sites. You give up your guns (and you will if Hillary or Obama is elected), then get ready to give up other rights; pay higher taxes; lose your tax cuts; experience socialized medicine (ask the Canadians about this). It seems you had rather vote for an anti-gun Democrat than to vote for a Republican! You have been duped by a professional liar who will steal your firearms, one at a time. If Hillary or Obama is elected I don't want to hear one word out of you people when you have to register your guns and subsequently surrender them. Not one word! I am amazed at how politically stupid you are!

Yellow-dog Democrats with guns
--
I offer no judgment on the fact that people stupid enough to vote the straight Democrat Party ticket include folks who own firearms.

The whole point of the Second Amendment is that the right to keep and bear arms (RTKBA) is precisely that: a *RIGHT*.

Not a privilege that can be approved or disapproved by some feculent politician or slimey bureaucrat, but a civil right held "in the teeth and to the despite of" the government itself.

As the saying goes, the relationship with our government in these United States is fundamentally sadomasochistic.

The Second Amendment is the safeword.

When our "public servants" won't respond to "pretty please," we're supposed to shoot them to death. That's how a republic works.

So, yeah, there are going to be fixatedly psychotic Democrats who understand and exercise their RTKBA, and who will *STILL* vote for the Evil Party every goddamned time they walk into a polling station.

They're tiny in number (and diminishing with every year), but in tight elections - like the Pennsylvania primaries - small numbers of "swing" voters can make the difference between victory and defeat.

Hell, look no further than the disastrous 1992 election campaign of George H.W. Bush, when one of his "shoulda-been" Republican core constituencies - the gun owners - stayed away from the polls in numbers sufficient to surrender the White House to Bubba the Bloat.

All because of Herbert's arrant stupidity in failing to defend the Second Amendment rights he was sworn to protect.

"Rockefeller Republicans."

What a bunch of schmucks.

--

I agree with SJ Doc
You've nailed it! The second amendment was created to be a safeguard against government corruption and tyranny. It may be high time to exercise the right for which it was intended. The more I see and hear from our elected govenment officials and those running for office, the more I believe that our government does not have our best interests in mind!

NRA ??
I watched the NRA get behind the Veterans Disarmament Act that was recently pushed through Congress. Only Gunowners of America stood against it. Unfortunately, the NRA has a lot of clout when it comes to pushing gun control.

Negotiate Rights Away - has been a mantra of the NRA for a long time.

USA Today News
There is a poll going around about whether the people think that the 2nd amendment is for individuals or not. See: http://www.usatoday.com/news/quickquestion/2007/november/p opup5895.htm

When I did mine, there were over 750,000 people who had voted. It was 97% that the people have the right, 2% against and 1% undecided. Call it up and vote yourselves.

2nd Amendment
From my cold dead hands,now come & get 'em ! Give me liberty or give me death ! Redneck Tarheel

Gun Owners for Hillery?
How could any real firearms entheusiast vote for a Democrat? Just look how close Heller was, it should have been a slam-dunk, yet, it just barely passed. A vote for any Democrat is a vote against private ownership of firearms. and as the NRA being a pro-gun orginization, rediculous! These postings have to be by gun prohibionionists. The NRA plans on spending over 30 million to insure a gun supporter is elected. McCain isn't the best, if he picks Bloomberg for Vice Pres, I stay home, but he's better than voting for the Democrat candidate. I'm hoping for blood in the streets of Denver at the Demo Convention, just as in '68 after RFK was assinated, thus insuring a McCain win.
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