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Monday, February 25, 2008
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Archbishop and Sharia
by Chuck Colson
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What would you rather watch?

There are an estimated 1.6 million Muslims in Great Britain. By some estimates, more people attend mosque than go to Anglican churches every week. Judging by recent comments by the Archbishop of Canterbury, it is easy to see why.

As most of you by now know, Archbishop Rowan William said in a recent interview that the “UK has to ‘face up to the fact’ that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.” He left no doubt who those “citizens” are: British Muslims.

So according to Williams, British Muslims should not have to choose between “the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty.” Instead, in the tradition of having your cake and eating it too, he proposes finding “a constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law”—in other words, sharia.

British Muslims could choose to have “marital” or “financial” disputes resolved in sharia courts. Sharia courts in Britain? At first I thought the Archbishop misspoke.

But it turns out, no. He calls this “supplementary jurisdiction” unavoidable. He compared it to accommodating Christians in areas like abortion or gay adoption.

With all due respect to the Archbishop, there is no such parallel. The only thing that is unavoidable here is his failure to see sharia as it is practiced in the real world, as opposed to in seminars. As the Asia Times columnist “Spengler” put it, Williams is conceding “a permanent role to extralegal violence in the political life of England.”

In real-world Muslim communities throughout Europe, coercion is so commonplace “that duly-constituted governments there” no longer wield justice among its citizens. The imams do. And where would the Archbishop draw the line? At husbands beating their wives for wearing Western clothes or maybe stoning a woman accused of adultery?

Nor will, as Williams hopes, permitting sharia on British soil aid social cohesion. On the contrary, Williams’s fellow bishop, Michael Nazir-Ali, recently spoke about what he calls “no-go zones” in Muslim communities where Christians dare not enter. As a result of death threats, bishop Nazir-Ali and his family require police protection.

Nazir-Ali, whose father had to leave Pakistan after converting to Christianity, told the UK Telegraph that sharia is “in tension” with “fundamental aspects” of Anglo-American law. That is because our “legal tradition” is “rooted in the quite different moral and spiritual vision deriving from the Bible.” This crucial difference seems to have escaped the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The West’s greatest contribution to civilization has been the rule of law, the bulwark of freedom, captured in Anglo-American jurisprudence. Now a ranking religious official proposes compromising that with a theocratic church rule? Please.

Williams’s comments are a tragic sign of the Church’s weakness. We fawningly respond to Islamic overtures for dialogue, even as we see Christians being persecuted in Muslim nations—and sharia law being imposed on others right in our own backyards.

This weakness is the stuff that empty churches are made of.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Sharia law
is based on a religion that was designed to attract uneducated young arab males and give power to the originator of the religion and his progeny. It is the only religion that gives non-believers three choices in life: convert to it, be enslaved by the practitioners of it, or be put to the sword.

Judeo-Christian laws are based on a religion that respects all people and desires peace among nations.

Compromises and second glances
are what get us all into trouble.

and in iraq
our policy has led to more and more iraqis falling under the rule of sharia law.
almost all the cities in the south are now ruled by shiite clerics and sharia law is in place.

what is it we have won?

Galatians 1:6-10
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please me? for if I yet pleased me, I should not be the servant of God.

O I forgot, this isn't the Bible Williams consults but the Good As New piece of junk.
He calls himself a leftist, and I found the answer I asked several days ago about his connection with druidism. He became a member of some druid offshoot, supposedly not truely druid, but members are part of the elite of the
literary welsh (I believe) world. However, he
donned the uniform of druids, white robe and in the ceremony the white headpiece, and with folded hands stood within the standing stones.
And a woman clasped her hands around his and intoned some words, presumably in the welsh.
For a man who calls himself a Christian clergyman, a Bishop at the time, later Archbishop
what's he doing even remotely connected with
pagan rituals? They can dress it up because it
is a group of poets and writers but doesn't change the fact that the ritual amid the standing stones is pagan. No wonder he doesn't have a problem with sharia. The scripture also says, by their fruits ye shall know them.

All A Bit Of A ...
...non issue now this incident, chaps. Williams comments were pretty much roundly condemned from all sides of the political spectrum and his own church. He even made some form of retraction.
We don't really need American ex-jail birds using a storm in a tea cup from our country to foment anti-Muslim feeling thanks very much!!!

Is Bush that different from Archbishop?
Someone ought to wrest Bush away from "My Pet Goat" long enough to have him read Colson's column.

Especially relevant from Colson's piece is the quote: "..Sharia(law)is in tension with 'fundamental aspects of Anglo-American jurisprudence'...because our 'legal tradition' is rooted in the quite different moral and spiritual vision deriving from the Bible...this distinction seems to have escaped the Archbishop of Canterbury".

Given that Bush has invested his entire legacy on a Muslim Iraq, which by its nature must adopt Sharia law, and given that Bush has also advocated the creation of an Islamic state in the heart of Europe(Kosovo), one wonders if there are any bounds whatsover to his ignorance?

I would add that sharia law is more than merely 'in tension' with Anglo-American law.

It is incompatible with it.

Religiouslib has a point.

Well, I don't relate to
... America's legal system. So there. It's time America stopped taxing my income, restricting my ownership of firearms, and telling me I can't put nativity scenes and crosses on public spaces.

This whole thing with having to, like, pay off debts and insure my vehicle is really nothing but a big bum-out too.

And while we're at it, screw the endangered species. If I want to put a dam, an oil refinery, a nuclear power plant, or a new casino resort complex in our fragile desert environment, I'll damn well do it.

I, like, SO do not relate to all this oppressive, categorical Western leglism. Constructively accommodate ME, why don't you, you culturally onanistic dead white Christianist hetero unigender European male twits??

question(s)
Does anyone REALLY believe that President Bush really means it when he describes islam as a "religion of peace"?

How else is he to describe it. I know you would love it if he described it in the terms in which most of you describe it - and justifiably so - but the head of state of the most powerful nation in the world does NOT go about doing that.

Religion of Peace? Yeah right...
Muslims have been trying to destroy Western Civilization since the 7th Century AD when they barged out of the Arabian desert and began their looooong offensive against rational thought and respect.

Colson chiding Rowan Williams
Colson has Williams well pegged as misunderstanding Sharia.

As well he correctly identifies Williams' rotten leadership as a leading cause of the recent sharpness in decline of the Church of England.

vespanat
That he said it at all is what is worrying. No one would have said such a thing fifty years ago, and it would have been incomprehensible. Twenty years ago, with the Salman Rushdie affair, it was still incomprehensible -- none of us even knew the word -- but lots of liberals and leftists responded to the fatwa by saying they would try to "understand" why Muslims were upset.

And today nearly everyone has heard of the word "shari'a," plus the head of the Church of England talks about its being inevitable.

What will it be like twenty years from now? You do know the story of the frog in the pot of water, don't you, vespanat? It's the same thing here. The temperature of the water is slowly being raised, and you can't feel it.

Sharia Law and the Church of England
Sadly this is just a precursor to the trend not only in England and Europe but in America as well. It seems that the left in America are willing to accommodate Islam as they ban any accommodation of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism etc. Substituting Sharia Law FOR us law, even if its only for the Islamic Ghettos is just the first step.
A "First Step" in the War declared by Islam on all infidel nations to establish a world Wide Caliphate. How long will we blind ourselves to this fact??

TSGT U. A. clough Jr., USAF, RET.

irrelevance
"Williams’s comments are a tragic sign of the Church’s weakness"

I think it should read "Church's irrelevance". The only people who care what Williams has to say are himself and the lazy pig-ignorant MSM. As an earlier poster said, his comments have been almost universally (in England) condemned.

With the head of the church making comments like this it is no wonder that the church's numbers are rapidly declining.With muppets like Williams at the helm I estimate that the church will be dead in 15-20 years.

Do you agree with PM Howard?

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. “If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you”, he said on National Television

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/do-you-agree-with- pm-howard

Common Law
The single most important contribution England has made to Western Culture is the Common Law: the notion that there is one law for all. Allowing Sharia to have any power weakens the basic foundation of British society.

This is madness.

For Crawfisth
You wrote: "It is the only religion that gives non-believers three choices in life: convert to it, be enslaved by the practitioners of it, or be put to the sword."

You forgot to add "sometimes MORE THAN ONE applied". This was shown in Indian history, particularly with family members of Gokal, a Hindu Jat who led an almost successful rebellion against the Mughual Empire (the then-emperor, Aurangzeb, was a bigotted Sunni Muslim) in 1669 (Gokal's army, consisting in bulk of untrained and unequipped peasants, actually defeated two Mughal armies sent to subdue the rebellion; the third, led personally by Aurangzeb succeeded). Gokal was grotesquely executed, and his family members were forced to convert to Islam and then "bricked".

For John Konop: several historical figures other than John Howard have pointed out the same facts (basically, that Muslims who want Sharia have already a wide choice of nations in which to abide; they have no business trying to change a non-Muslims laws to that effect); a partial listing:
(1) Vinayak Savarkar
(2) Madhav Golwalkar
(3) Edward Heath
(4) Golda Meir
(5) Maulana Azad

Addendum
I now have to add one more patriotic liberal (Aussie ex-PM Howard was leader of Australia's Liberal Party, basically similar to Canada's) to my rather short list.

vespanat 11:31am
"All a bit of a non issue now this incident, chaps. Williams comments were pretty much roundly condemned from all sides of the political spectrum and his own church. He even made some form of retraction.
We don't really need American ex-jail birds using a storm in a tea cup from our country to foment anti-Muslim feeling thanks very much!!!"

If you aren't trying to be funny (and are not in truth a citizen of the US), then I have this for you. This "American Cousin" has never been a "jail bird". My family left in 1704 from Scotland to gain religious and economic freedom in the "New World".

Do what you want with Great Britian. But our Bill of Rights guarantees our freedom of speech; and we tend to use it. (We bought that freedom with blood at Trenton, Valley Forge, Saratoga, Cowpens, and Yorktown. We confirmed the purchase price on January 8, 1815 at New Orleans. There an out-numbered group of "dirty shirt" militia, US regulars, Free Black volunteers, and Hinds Dragoons from Mississippi beat your best Napoleon-defeating troops.)

question for J Konup
I linked to your ControlCongress web page just now and read the John Howard quote you had posted there, back in Sept 2007.

As you may know John Howard's term of office ended on Dec 3, 2007; his successor is Kevin Rudd.

I heartily endorse Mr. Howard's statement, as you cited it, and I had read it several weeks ago when it was making the email rounds.

But my question is, What is your source for that Howard statement? It was not cited in the email, either. Call me "technical" if you will, but I would like to know when and where he uttered those remarks. If you happen to know, please tell us all.

As for the Archbishop's remarks: I must wonder if he believes in theological relativism -- all religions leading to the same god. If so, it's not so surprising that he could actually entertain the notion that Sharia law is merely different and to be accommodated, as opposed to recognizing that it is contrary to Biblical orthodoxy. The Archbishop should be upholding orthodoxy, not the least because, as Mr. Colson reminds us, it is the well from which English Common Law was nourished -- but primarily because it's HIS JOB as the head, but for the queen, of the Church of England!

darcy
A few facts.

1. The arch bishop specifically stipulated that any Islamic court ruling could NOT go against British law.

2".He merely proposed allowing an Islamic council to adjudicate trivial cases involving, for example, uncontested divorces."

The Archbishop's remarks are just the
result of 40 years of mushy multiculturalism throughout a culture that once educated the fighter pilots who fought Germany alone for over a year before Pearl Harbor.

Save for the French Napoleonic Code (France, Spain, Italy, and Mexico), the AS legal system dominates most of the world through the former colonies and commonwealth countries of the British Empire.

Unfortunately, the archbishop would obviously not have been one of the listeners glued to their old radio sets to hear Winston Churchill inspire a world to fight Nazism and Japanese expansion during WW II.

Schools in the US are also facing Muslim demands for school time for Muslim prayer, prayer rugs, and scarves for young women. The U of Michigan has begun to install foot washing machines for Muslim students. Next, some college president will start wearing a burqha in sympathy with the downtrodden of the Middle East.

Oh, someone already did that. Nancy Pelosi in Syria. She wore a head scarf so she didn't offend a tyrannical despot whose country sponsors bombs for Lebanese parlimentarians and three times joined Arab wars of aggression against Isael.


renny
Rice wore a scarf when she went to talk to those dastardly Syrians.

http://guntotingliberal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/cond iburka.jpg

Don't forget, some of the greatest heroes on our side were Muslims!

haha for once...
I agree with a conservative!

Mind you, Mr Howard lost the November elections last year to the Australian Labor Party candidate Kevin Rudd, who is a devout Christian- so you needn't worry.

We have choices between liberals and socialists. Yay!

Anyways, the laws of a nation are, and should always be, impartial and secular. This goes for all religions. Sure, the laws can be informed by religious beliefs (such as "murdering people sucks" and "don't take stuff which isn't yours") but they must always be secular in character, and you cannot have one group of people who practice it in any particular jurisdiction who apply the law differently to other people in the same jurisdiction.

It's basically religious bigotry and discrimination, even though they want the discrimination. Too bad. You want freedom and liberty and liberalism, you must accept all the laws. If people want Sharia, then they must convince everyone to accept it before it can be imposed on a state.

Bill 1:13pm
Bill, very well put and I see that you get it. It's so sad that so many Americans today do not.

The Archbishop
is a weak kneed coward.

Sharia & Iraq
Too bad this administration lacked the fortitude to pushed the Iraqis to adopt a secular constitution (like Turkey) and instead let them keep Islam as state religion.

After WW2, McArthur (with State department backing) actively purged the Shintoistic emperor/god beliefs and let the Japanese adopt parliametary democracy. (Did not force a US style republic.) He even went as far as requesting Christian missionaries to be sent. Can you imagine this today! I guess we just cannot afford another 1973 oil embargo all over again?

This country needs energy indepedence. (Say it 1000 times.)

Legal immigrant



Judge not, be not judged
Sure, we can criticize the Anglican Church.
Just remember it gave up many core Articles of Faith several decades ago.

Our "mainline" denominations in the USA are much, much worse.

Just look at the "National Council of Churches", a very far-left organization. It twists Scripture like there's no tomorrow.

Which there will not be unless USA Christians get on our knees and repent of our many sins of omission and comission.

Christians out there - do you support your Minister/Priest? Do you work on personal evangelism? Do you treat your spouse/children like the gifts from God that they are?

King David wrote this Psalm: "Search me, O God, and know my heart . . ." as a Psalm of repentance. We all should ask The Lord Jesus to cleanse our hearts.

The Archbishop and Sharia Law
Amen to Mr. Colson. Bill and Gray Ghost!

The current situation in Europe
For an excellent book dealing with this subject and its broader ramifications, see "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying The West From Within," by Bruce Bawer. A friend of mine who has spent 42 year in Israel has heard Muslims say, "Twice we failed to conquer Europe by force. Now we shall conquer Europe with the womb." This book will demonstrate the truth of that claim.

Gray Ghost
Fear not, I was in no way inferring that the populace of the US (which incidentally includes my mothers side of the family) had been incarcerated, merely that the author of the article to which I was responding had been. I was in no way saying his freedom of speech should be curtailed however, just that I didn't agree with him (much as I didn't the Archbishops comments)
Apologies for any offence caused in the confusion.

THE ABOMINATION OF SHARIA LAW
THE ABOMINATION OF SHARIA LAW: A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONS AND RULE OF LAW

Larry Houle
http://www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

Wherever Muslims live under Sharia law adulterers are publicly flogged or stoned to death, sometimes before thousands of spectators in public stadiums. There are no rights for women or children, with women genitally mutilated, and beaten in the streets for the slightest infraction. They care nothing for other beliefs, about being fair, have no juries, no free speech. Television and radio are forbidden, music and dance prohibited. It is their way or execution, the death penalty, with no appeal, no delay. You are simply shot in the head where you stand, and your children shot before you. And these practices of the Sharia, once largely confined to the Middle East, even though mostly finished in Afghanistan, are now spreading to other parts of the world.

Here are the top eleven reasons why Sharia or Islamic law is EVIL for all societies.

11. SHARIA LAW IS SLAVERY

10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives.

8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.

7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off.

6. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated.

5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed.

4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.
Fornication:

3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

2. Islam orders apostates to be killed.

In And the number one reason why sharia is bad for all societies . . .

1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.




No no no...
...This is all about intolerance against Muslims! How DARE Colson criticize this move towards glorious multiculturalism within Britain's boundaries.

What we need is not some firm, hard stance against poor innocent Muslims just wanting to live their lives and impose their righteousness onto others... but rather opening up to them, adapting to accommodate them, so that their rage doesn't tear apart our cities and kill our people.

We need to learn to tolerate and understand this rage. These kinds of values show that we're better than they are, that we're big enough to understand them, that we're truly tolerant and open-minded... unlike those horrendous Christians whose Bible formed the foundation of our western law that, in turn, made us far more successful than any Muslim country and has been.

Yeah... it's those Christians that we have to worry about. If we appease the Muslims, we know they'll leave us alone. No riots will tear apart our cars and storefronts... no bombs will go off in our market places. But if we appease the Christians, we'll be under totalitarian theocratic rule that will keep women from... gulp... getting a late term abortion because she has a headache! Good God! I ask you, what is the real threat here?

Honestly, Christians in particular, the west in general had better wake the hey up. These liberal ideals are simply not based in either reality or common sense.

Chuck - One correction
There is the perception that liberals want to accept Sharia law to avoid offending Muslim feelings. That is not their motivation. Do liberals worry about conservatives' feelings? Their reason for a willingness to accommodate a theocracy that goes against the grain of their core beliefs is actually fear. Liberals are deathly afraid of Muslim violence and the prospect that force would have to be used to quell the violence. Liberals hate the use of force above all else.

gretske
That's interesting, and I'd like to believe it, but I don't think it's true. The vast majority of liberals and leftists who wander onto TownHall don't seem a bit afraid of Muslims. Their basic idea is that anyone who complains about Muslims is an Islamophobe, which is practically the same as being a racist.

Nor do any of the liberals and leftists I know seem at all fearful of Muslims.

I think they are nuts not to be fearful.

Of Course People..
..are fearful of the radical Islamists who plant bombs etc. However I think most rational people can see that they do not represent all Muslims, as many posters here seem to think, and this idea many here have that soon everyone in the West will be living under Sharia Law is patently ridiculous. I have asked many times for someone to explain the mechanism by which this could happen in the UK and no one has given me a sensible answer.
A charge that is often levelled at liberals, rightly in many instances, is that they think in 'feelings' as opposed to logic. In this case I think it's the rabid anti-muslim Conservatives (not all conservatives by any means).

vespanat
"I have asked many times for someone to explain the mechanism by which this could happen in the UK and no one has given me a sensible answer."

I guess I don't see what the problem is here. The mechanisms are two: First there is unrestrained immigration together with the Muslims' fecundity. Second is that over the past forty years, our government bureaucracies and our media have been taken over by people who think that it is important not to offend minorities or to be racist. They believe that imperialism was horrible and they feel guilty about it. They think that all cultures are equal, except Western culture, which is uniquely bad.

So, how do these people react to demands made by Muslims? They cave. They cave every time. In fact, sometimes they even anticipate what Muslims want and institute it themselves.

And so we see the slow takeover of our societies by shari'a. What was unthinkable five years ago suddenly is thinkable today. What will things be like in another five years? I shudder to think.

And what it all means is that fifty years from now, at least part of the West will be under shari'a.

It is true that there is occasionally a burst of anger from the rest of us that forces them to back down, but most of what is happening occurs under the radar screen and so gets instituted.

And here's the ridiculous aspect of it all. It could all be stopped if, say, feminists were to hold large, noisy demonstrations against honor killings and other such abuses. Such a demonstration would send a clear signal to Muslims that there are limits to what they can achieve. But feminists just refuse to do this.

I ask you, vespanat, why won't feminists do that? What are they thinking?

Disconnect from reality?
The craziest part of all of this is that the same people who refuse to speak out about this are the same ones who accuse Christians of wanting to impose a theocracy on the U.S. (Or say it's already here!) I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this happen. Ranting and raving about those terrible Christians, but when it comes to the horrors of Islam, they say not a word. They absolutely refuse to say a word.

It's such a bizarre disconnect, that I realize it can only be a spiritual problem/deception. But it is so frustrating to deal with on a daily basis.

Sharia Law
George must mean the Muslims that don't really follow their religion are believers in a religion of peace. Just read the first few chapters. People can choose to live under sharia law but I think they should go back home to live under sharia law. They should not bring it with them into other countries. People that want to live here should be lovers of freedom and allow others to live in freedom. Muslims that love sharia law want everyone to live under sharia law. Sharia law is abusive and violent and hates liberty.

But the PEOPLE don't agree.
But the People of the UK don't agree with the Archbishop. There has been an outcry,letters to Members of Parliament and unprecedented response on the BBC 'Have Your Say' Website. True there does seem to be a split between the Establishment/Government and the electorate over religious empowerment(any religion, any God) but things take a little time to feed through and MPs may get the message soon. The history of the UK is one where Catholics and Protestants fought for control and this exposed fallacies and doctrinal flaws in both sides and people have a healthy cynicism of literal interpretation and do question and require answers. There are many, possibly a majority, of people who believe in a Supreme Being but are not impressed with the moral and ethical standards of any religious doctrine and think that God is not impressed either,so are not attached to any religion.There are already British Courts that carry out moderation in all the areas the Archbishop described and within British laws. The law we have today in Western Democracies is far better than any ancient religious law, far more just, far more equitable because it has been tested and is open to public scrutiny, criticism and change to meet the modern world. I do not believe that any ethos that involves coercion can qualify as a religion because coercion means there can never have been any true believers.
The Koran says,'It is the truth from your Lord;therefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve'(Koran 18:29) That being so, where is the integrity of the Ayatollah who imposed the Fatwa on Salmon Rushtie? The Ayatollah must have, in effect, put his own words in the mouth of Allah, an act of extremism and anti Islamic.

JFP
I agree with you that there are some ridiculous people on the left who refuse to condemn some acts committed in the name of Islam for fear of appearing racist. These people are in the vast minority. As FreedomKnight says, and as I alluded to in an earlier post, there was a massive public opposition to what the Archbishop said including, to be fair, from some of the Muslim community.
Sharia Law will never be imposed in a country full of such hardened drinkers as the UK. To paraphrase the NRA, 'The Only Way They'll Get My Pint Is To Prise It Out Of My Cold Dead Hand'!!!!

The way it happens
is, as I wrote yesterday, schools allow local populations to influence how a school district is conducted. Then the students grow up with the belief that nothing Christian can be mentioned in a classroom but that Islam is a culture to be admired.

In CA two years ago, a school district imposed on its students the wearing of Muslim dress, bringing prayer rugs to school and pretending to pray to Mecca, and readings from the Koran. Parents protested but were rebuffed. After all, the 9th District Court that sits in San Fran has ruled that parents cannot stop schools from teaching what parents don't want.

The Islamic imposition was not repeated, maybe due to internet publicity, but in NJ, last year, when Burlington HS wanted a practice attack scenario, it didn't use radical Muslim terrorists--it used "a consercative right-wing militia"--a chronic boogie man of the left, because when you watch Cold Case and the Law and Orders, several times a year, some right-wing "militia" (as if the country were overrun with them) is the villain.

The left is horrified that Christians will limit abortion and call homosexuals sinners but seems entirely oblivious to Shi'ria which allows no abortion under any circumstances and even kills homosexuals. It would also kill them, if they didn't convert or pay a special tax (as the Copts pay in Egypt). I think leftists would probably take the path of least resistance and become vehement Islamists, as its totalitarian dictatorial program really suits their temperaments for control.

The Catholic Church ...
... has also noted that liberalism drives down church attendance.

The Archbishop
The poor man. He has one foot in alzheimers and the other on a banana peel.

The message that Jesus brought is no longer valid, he's thinking. Sharia law is what Jesus really wants us to accept.

That poor man needs a mental laxative.

Living with the Middle-Easterners
The rest of GB better be taking lessons from the Royal Family's dealings with Mohamed Al Fayed when it comes to getting things right with the Middle-Easterners.

Except for relations with family or close business associates, they only understand "I'm tougher than you and you do as I say" or "You're tougher than me and I do as you say." It's that simple and we Westerners better catch on.

Welcome to the future US of A.
The UK is arguably the "most like" the United States, and now there are some people seriously considering the institution of Sharia Law in the UK?

In case some are unsure of the undisputed EVIL of what Sharia Law is, here are some highlights:

- Women accused of adultery are stoned to death (yes, you heard that right, simple accusations are enough because under Sharia Law, the testimony of women is meaningless in court, whereas the word of her husband is never doubted without mounds of proof to the contrary).

- Female victims of rape are flogged. If they are raped by a married man, they are hanged from the neck until dead.

- Women who show even a millimeter of skin are publicly beaten.

- Under Sharia Law, it is legal to murder a woman who does not marry a Muslim.

- Gays? Summary execution.

- If a woman is caught in public with a male who they are neither married to or is not a family member, they are flogged.

- In fact, a woman caught in public without their husband or another male family member is beaten.

Welcome to the future of the United States.

He's no Christian, that Archbishop.
If they should once obtain a connivance,
They will press for toleration,
From thence to an equality,
from an equality to a superiority,
from a superiority to an extirpation
of all contrary religions.

John Pym.
Parliamentarian of the English Civil war era.

Hey Renny
You stated, "I think leftists would probably take the path of least resistance and become vehement Islamists, as its totalitarian dictatorial program really suits their temperaments for control." I tend to agree, however what they think while missing some crucial points is that THEY will be in the positions of overseers for the rest of us as they do now politically. This satisfies two things, their quest for power/authority (the proverbial ego trip) and their elitist mentalities where they believe they KNOW better than any one else ergo are entitled to dictate and direct other's lives. What they miss is that with every subversive government that has ever acquired power the first rung of individuals who "fall by the wayside" (is that politically correct enough) is the very class of people who help to sway the populace to accept the "new order". In other words they, the professors, teachers, religious leaders, and the hollywood elitists who have sway over audiences would be lined up in front of the trenches and it wouldn't be for public acclaim. Their ego's simply refuse to let them see this or to see that history bears out this truth.

I was once a member of that church.
I thank God that I found a real church that lives according to God and not some effeminate poof who wants to be 'inclusive'.

ISLAM IS FASCISM
ISLAM IS FASCISM : PART 1
ISLAM IS TERRORISM

By
Larry Houle
http://www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

ISLAM IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BOGUS – A SHAM AND A FRAUD

Islam is not a religion but an evil, political, military ideology.

The ten commandments teach: Thou Shalt Not Kill.

The Koran teaches: Thou Shalt Kill Infidels.

In Islam, it is a holy religious duty to murder infidels. The Quran is written in the language of terrorism. It is filled with numerous verses urging the Muslims to terrorize the non Muslims, kill them, and take possession of their lands and properties. The important points to remember is that whatever Muhammad did to terrorize the infidels was actually the actions of God. Among the many verses which exhort Islamist terrorism, the following verses stand out as naked aggression of Allah/Muhammad on the unbelievers: 2:63, 3:151, 8:12, 8:60, 8:59, 9:29, 9:50 9:55, 11:102, and 17:59 These are the Eternal Laws of Allah authorizating murder and extermination as a holy duty. THIS IS THE EVIL INSANITY THAT IS ISLAM.

Islam is murdering infidels, raping their women and little girls, selling and breeding them as slaves, looting and pillaging their property and keeping 80% of the proceeds from the looting and selling slaves, and distributing the women not sold into slavery as sex slaves.

All Muslims believe the Koran is the Eternal divine word of God – the Eternal laws of God. All Muslims believe that God authored the Koran and a copy of the Koran is in heaven. The Koran remains for all Muslims, not just "fundamentalists," the uncreated word of God Himself. It is valid for all times and places forever; its ideas are absolutely true and beyond all criticism. To question it is to question the very word of God, and hence blasphemous. A Muslim's duty is to believe it and obey its divine commands without question.

ISLAM IS FASCISM : PART 2
ISLAM IS FASCISM : PART 2
ISLAM IS TERRORISM

By
Larry Houle
http://www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com

Muslims can be killed (beheaded) for doing any of the following:

Reviling Allah or his Messenger; (2) being sarcastic about 'Allah's name, His command, His interdiction, His promise, or His threat'; (3) denying any verse of the Quran or 'anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it'; (4) holding that 'any of Allah's messengers or prophets are liars, or to deny their being sent'; (5) reviling the religion of Islam; (6) being sarcastic about any ruling of the Sacred Law; (7) denying that Allah intended 'the Prophet's message . . . to be the religion followed by the entire world.'

This means exactly what it says. ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE that the Koran is the ETERNAL word/teachings of God to be followed without question. If a Muslim challenges or questions the Koran, HE IS NO LONGER A MUSLIM BUT AN APOSTATE OF ISLAM and can be killed.
The Koran can never be changed not even one word. When you are reading teachings of the Koran, you are reading the word of God himself and you must OBEY. THERE IS NO CHOICE. There is no exercising free will, no employing logic, reason, rationality, morality. These teachings are for all time - FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.

This is the most important insanity that ALL Muslims believe – THAT MEANS ALL MUSLIMS. This belief in the KORNIC ETERNAL LAWS OF GOD is a disaster that has the potential to destroy humanity and civilization as we know it.

Again all the teachings of murder, rape, slavery, looting, sex with little girls etc are FOREVER.

They are Islam.

Colson
"Moral and spiritual VISION deriving from the Bible"? Hey, if one rejects Jesus and the forgiveness of sin he purhased for us at the Cross, there IS NO vision. There is only one way. That's what gets people so upset. We want purgatory - a second chance. Williams doesn't speak for the Church of Jesus Christ. Episcopalian leadership has shown its disgust for obediance to Christ. Once you were a strong, steadfast, unshakable voice of truth as found in your own conversion. Now, you are a feeble wimper living off your past victory in Christ which is no longer evident. Plainly, there is a choice: God or Satan. Period. In every thought, word, and action we make this choice. And guess what? God will be the One who judges us. Even you will have a judgment day. What will you say when asked: Why did you not preach the Gospel of my Son? The Gospel is not psychology, not philosophy, and definitely not philanthropy. Why do you think it is that you bypass so many opportunities to state the simple truth of the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior? We don't need to understand the sinner (why did that crazy young man take a gun to school and shoot innocent others?) We need to give them Jesus so they can understand their own human nature. Please do better!

Shalom

Uncle Max
"...but the head of state of the most powerful nation in the world does NOT go about doing that."

And why not? Reagan discribed a whole nation and its political system as an Evil Empire. People will ultimately respect you a lot more for telling the truth than they will for political pandering.

vespanat, part 1
"There was a massive public opposition to what the Archbishop said including...."

But not a universal one. Even here at TownHall there have been the leftist apologists saying, "But all he said was that shari'a should be instituted only for particular circumstances," namely those circumstances relating to divorce when both parties agreed. But any feminist can answer that one by noting that a woman's "agreement" may have been coerced.

"Sharia Law will never be imposed in a country full of such hardened drinkers as the UK."

You have no idea whether future generations in the UK will be hardened drinkers. All it takes for a way of life to be destroyed is for one generation not to value it and so to refuse to pass it on or to refuse to fight for it. Suppose it is 2050, and a much larger percentage of the UK population is Muslim. Plus, they are rather violent and have a tendency to blow up pubs, and they have gotten their way on everything else.

Why at that point bother to defend the practice of going to pubs? People who don't go to pubs and who wanted stiff resistance in our era and not later will tell people like you, "Why should I support your cause when you didn't support mine?" Others who may want to go will decide it's not worth the bother. And others will just be too afraid and discouraged. And others will feel guilty about what British imperialism did and will feel it is the Muslims' right to dictate whatever they want.

vespanat, part 2
Think about the feminists. I've seen feminists blow a gasket because someone called a seventeen-year-old female a girl instead of a woman. Yet these same feminists are silent about honor killings. Why? It's incomprehensible.

If feminists cannot right now have a big demonstration against honor killings, then they never will. It's not going to get easier to do this, after all. Things are just going to get worse. Why not just admit that honor killings are now a part of U.K. culture? Maybe full-blown shari'a will never be instituted in the U.K., but alien practices already are. And it is natural for people like me to think that they will become more widespread, and that other alien practices will eventually take hold, too.

Anglicans and Muslims
Anglican Church is an offshoot of corrupt Catholic Church. One of the reasons was a king of England wanted to divorce his wife but the Catholic Church won't allow it. So they establish Anglican Church to legitimized their king's wishes. Theologically, Anglican Church is founded on the 'sand'. Medium size wave comes like Mohammedanism, church crumbles just like what Rowan Williams is observing or happening or will happen in not so 'Great' Britain.

Christ is fallen
The Church is failing to stand up for Christians both is word and deed. The tell us to accept our faith in life and to wait for God to bless us while they live at our expense. I respect any bodies faith who will stand up for their own. Christianity is the most anti-union and anti-worker to the point of being fascist in the United States. I blame the Church for the rich who are getting richer and the poor who are getting poorer. Wall Street and the Bush clan hate Islam because they don't believe in usury and capitalism and private property like Wall Street wants them to do. Bush bombed the Taliban because they refuse to sell out their country for pennies and the dollar. When Enron went bankrupt, they had to lay 300 or so ex-CIA and military officials. What does that tell you. Bush is bankrupting this nation so EXXON_MOBIL can rob this nation out of 100 billions of dollars of profit while paying no taxes to this nation. How much is America's dollars are in the Banks in the Middle East. Every penny they can put into foreign banks without bring one penny home to this nation! That is economic treason!

Christ is fallen
The Church is failing to stand up for Christians both is word and deed. The tell us to accept our faith in life and to wait for God to bless us while they live at our expense. I respect any bodies faith who will stand up for their own. Christianity is the most anti-union and anti-worker to the point of being fascist in the United States. I blame the Church for the rich who are getting richer and the poor who are getting poorer. Wall Street and the Bush clan hate Islam because they don't believe in usury and capitalism and private property like Wall Street wants them to do. Bush bombed the Taliban because they refuse to sell out their country for pennies and the dollar. When Enron went bankrupt, they had to lay 300 or so ex-CIA and military officials. What does that tell you. Bush is bankrupting this nation so EXXON_MOBIL can rob this nation out of 100 billions of dollars of profit while paying no taxes to this nation. How much is America's dollars are in the Banks in the Middle East. Every penny they can put into foreign banks without bring one penny home to this nation! That is economic treason!

Christ is fallen
The Church is failing to stand up for Christians both is word and deed. The tell us to accept our faith in life and to wait for God to bless us while they live at our expense. I respect any bodies faith who will stand up for their own. Christianity is the most anti-union and anti-worker to the point of being fascist in the United States. I blame the Church for the rich who are getting richer and the poor who are getting poorer. Wall Street and the Bush clan hate Islam because they don't believe in usury and capitalism and private property like Wall Street wants them to do. Bush bombed the Taliban because they refuse to sell out their country for pennies and the dollar. When Enron went bankrupt, they had to lay 300 or so ex-CIA and military officials. What does that tell you. Bush is bankrupting this nation so EXXON_MOBIL can rob this nation out of 100 billions of dollars of profit while paying no taxes to this nation. How much is America's dollars are in the Banks in the Middle East. Every penny they can put into foreign banks without bring one penny home to this nation! That is economic treason!

creeping sharia
"Liberals hate the use of force above all else". Not at all. Liberals only hate the use of force to defend western capitalist democracies and ideas. They go ga-ga over totalitarian thugs both leftist and Islamist, prancing about in their Mao and Che T-shirts while blathering on about how the West is to blame for Islamic terrorism that was written in Koranic stone before the West even existed...

As for Vespanat's inability to imagine sharia practises instituted anywhere in the West, they exist de facto in many places, including the United States. Start with forbidding any criticism of Islam or Mohammed. How many major American newspapers published the Danish cartoons of Mohammed which were certainly newsworthy and tame as editorial cartoons go? If you guessed zero, you'd be right. They gave various reasons, including "respecting" religion, these promoters of a urine-soaked crucifix and the elephant dung covered Madonna as art, but the simple truth is, they bowed to sharia i.e. non-Muslims must treat the pedophile prophet of devil worship with the same respect as do Muslims.

more creeping sharia
There are "no-go" areas in Britain, France and Scandinavia that native police dare not enter without the permission of the ruling imams who of course enforce sharia. Polygamous marriages contracted elsewhere are recognized in Britain and Canada, with Welfare paid to each wife up to 4 and progeny. Polygamy is against the law in those countries but sharia trumps local law. The foot baths and prayer rooms sprouting everywhere in public spaces are sharia. The growing veiling and demand that drivers' licenses, passports and voter registration with obscured faces be accepted is sharia. Canada's largest province Ontario had a narrow miss as a leftist fact-finder recommended sharia courts for Muslim domestic disputes but there an international coalition of feminists including some Muslim women who are by definition apostates stopped it temporarily. Young women of Muslim families are extremely accident prone in the West, falling off balconies with clockwork regularity, or suffering more direct honor killings by their male relatives for flouting sharia edicts about non-Muslim boyfriends or simply adopting western dress.

These phenomena and much more are flagrant anywhere Muslims become over 5-6% of the population but it starts anywhere a single devout Muslim sets foot (and footbath). Every Muslim is bound by his religion/ideology to bring sharia wherever he goes.

They are literally the only religion who impose their views on non-believers, who must give up their piggy banks, dogs, national flags with crosses, ice cream swirls that look like Arabic script for Allah, satirical cartoons, eating lunch while Muslims fast, surgical hygiene when female Muslim medical students refuse to bare their arms to scrub, security when fully veiled ciphers enter banks etc.

Ten years ago, all of this was going on, but underneath the radar. Now it's obvious. In another ten years?

JFP..
..I can categoricaly state that future generations of British people WILL be hardened drinkers given the propensity of this nations 13 year olds to hang around on street corners drinking extra strong cider!!
I cannot understand how you can say that honour killings are part of UK culture?? There have been numerous convictions in recent years for people engaged in that hideous practice.
In order for there to be an Islamic takeover of Britain then there would have to be an Islamic takeover of all our armed forces, this is simply never going to happen.
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