Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, October 20, 2008
Austin Nimocks :: Townhall.com Columnist
Finally, "Straight Talk" From the Homosexual Agenda
by Austin Nimocks
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



We all love and appreciate honesty, and it’s finally coming from the most unlikely of sources—the homosexual agenda. No matter what side of the issues of homosexual behavior you may find yourself supporting, a standing ovation is appropriate.

John Corvino, I salute you.

You see, back in August, my jaw hit the floor when I read a column Corvino wrote that was breathtakingly honest. You see, for many years, the homosexual agenda’s intentions, goals, and beliefs have been shrouded in smokescreens of “equality,” “benefits,” and “fairness.” Yet Corvino provided a breath of fresh air, telling us what those who engage in homosexual behavior really want: moral approval.

Of course, many of us have known this all along, but it’s nice to finally hear about it from the other side. This groundbreaking concession now provides an opportunity for an honest public discourse on what homosexual advocates are really after. They want your heart and soul. It’s not enough to just be tolerant.

Now, I realize that you probably believe that your fair-mindedness is sufficient for any number of circumstances in life, but on this issue, you have been duped. You see, moral approval goes well beyond fairness or tolerance. It requires you to look upon the homosexual behavior of another and say to yourself and others, “That’s a good thing.” Moral approval means that you plan to teach it to your kids as righteous and true, and not just as something that other people do (and then secretly pray that you never find your kids doing). Moral approval means that you must reject other people, businesses, and persons who do not morally approve of homosexual behavior.

Most of all, moral approval means that you not only permit it in your home, but you embrace it. You applaud TV shows that celebrate it, Web sites that promote it, books that endorse it, and you may even choose to practice it. Moral approval goes to the very essence of our person.

Not convinced that anyone could want something that radical from you? Well, there’s no need to accept something just because I say it. Instead, look at the strategy employed by those who promote this agenda—in the courts. That alone tells you something. Courts are not sought by people who simply want you to tolerate an idea. Courts order people to do things. From just this small sample of court cases, you can see that tolerance or simple access to certain “benefits” is no longer enough. What is desired is court-ordered moral approval:

· In New Jersey, the state launched an investigation of a Christian ministry after it declined to host a civil union ceremony for two women on its property. The women could have held their ceremony anywhere—and eventually did hold it somewhere else—but they filed a complaint anyway because they loathed the ministry’s lack of moral approval.

· In New Mexico, a same-sex couple filed a “human rights” complaint against a photographer who declined to photograph their “commitment” ceremony. The photographer lost and was ordered to cough up more than $6,600 in attorneys’ fees. Before the ruling, the couple hired a different photographer from the myriad of other ones available, but still chose to retaliate against the first photographer for her lack of moral approval.

· In Georgia, a counselor was fired because she referred a woman in a same-sex relationship to another counselor for relationship advice. The second counselor provided service that the woman herself characterized as “exemplary.” Yet she still demanded—and obtained—the first counselor’s termination for her lack of moral approval.

· In California, a woman in a same-sex relationship sued a doctor who declined to artificially inseminate her, claiming discrimination on the basis of “sexual orientation.” The woman misrepresented her marital status to the doctor, who has a policy not to perform the procedure on unmarried women regardless of their “orientation.” Other doctors successfully performed the procedure, and she has since borne three healthy children, yet the woman continues to demand the first doctor’s moral approval in court.

Note that having other options did not satisfy the people involved in the above same-sex relationships. The point to see: they demand moral approval. And some will go to court, have you fired, or otherwise seek your demise to get it. And they don’t care if you have to act against your conscience, just so long as you can ease theirs.

Corvino accurately states that “moral truth matters.” But there’s no longer any guessing about what truth he and those like him are referring to: it’s the one they have defined, and you’d better accept it. An abundance of “tolerance” will not suffice.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Austin R. Nimocks is senior legal counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund (www.telladf.org), a legal alliance employing a unique combination of strategy, training, funding, and litigation to protect and preserve religious liberty, the sanctity of life, marriage, and the family.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Austin Nimocks' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
David Nimocks (aka Austin R. Nimocks)
I'm not impressed. Why is it when "christians" are supposed to be so forgiving and not judge they easily forget and become those that judge the harshed. Whatever you are... Homosexual, straight, bi-sexual you are created by God and have the right to do as you please with your life WITHOUT THE JUDGEMENT OF OTHERS.

I can't help but wonder when I see someone so against homosexuallity that perhaps they are fighting inner demons and feelings of homosexuallity.

roger, that, anderson


SJ the madman also reminds one of that zany Nero portrayed in an old sword and sandals epic; forget which--

Played exquisitely by Peter Ustinov. Sounded as SJDoc does here,

"I commaund you NOT to love me" ~~~


du, and your poo-doo post.
I have to give you credit. Seldom does anyone cobble together a post composed completely dedicated to a victims status that has absolutely no foundation.A product of empirical insanity based on a parallel universe of your own making.Completely intellectually vacuous.

For months you and your crew have posted on every homosexual related column here at TH, in fact parking on them to make sure you have the last word. You have done your best to intimidate and deceive posters here.

Your hate filled, nasty, name calling posts have not borne the fruit you hoped, so you resort to the poor pitiful me status.

You, and especially your alter ego lovelsequal have been unmasked as to who you are and your intention. And that is to further your homosexual agenda,by any means.

What is obvious after so many months of observing your posts, is that your purpose is to further your militant agenda by any means.

That is why you post here. And why I could care less what you think of me, in fact it pleases me to know how you and your crew have validated every opinion I ever had of your group.

Your quarter ran out girl.





beneath you, anderson
Alright, you're done. Apparently you're more of a victim than ANYONE ever could be of the big, bad, nasty 'militant homosexual agenda'.

I've been honest about my background and it doesn't matter. Historical context doesn't matter, neither does empirical evidence.

The last several threads have devolved into the stupidest, most immature exchange I've ever seen.
There's no yardstick here, fellas to measure who has the biggest one swinging.

When it's all said and done, no adult should have dominion over another's freedom to conduct their lives as they choose and as our society usually accepts for ALL people.

The difference between you and me is I'm not afraid. And you want victim status so badly, that the 'militant homosexual agenda' has you dirtying your underwear.

I'm not afraid of gay people and their motives. I'm not afraid to spend time with the subject at hand to know the difference between fear and reason, love and control, action and reaction.

Not that you've got it out of your system what you think I am.

Frankly, I don't care anymore anderson. I overestimated you before. Most of you here.

But you're cowards to the core, afraid of what isn't there. With vivid imaginations and wholly selfish (and freakishly out of proportion perceptions of threat and victimization).
It's not that you're not intelligent.
It's that you've lost your marbles. You're too WEIRD.

Buh bye.





Dreadnought
Not to belabor the point, but another quote by a famous artist of the past so defines the SJDoc

" I am a coward. I cannot bear the pain of bring happy."

John Keats.

Performer and creative artist of te not so recent past.

I had posted it on another thread.

Gee, SJDump


Gee-- Thanks for the testimonial.

When's the literature of ideas coming? Is any more "substance" forthcoming from your deep study of important books?

Still nothing of substance...
--
...seems to be squeezeable from the dreaddie pustule.

Pity, really. Whatever in hell he is, he could occasionally be counted upon to sweat and struggle and strive - in futility, but, damnit, at least he was *trying* - to make a point.

Now.... Nothing but schoolyard "Yah-Yah!" crap.

It's become apparent that dreaddie honestly believes there is some value to insult for its own sake, rather than as an incidental to the presentation of discussion points.

At which, admittedly, he's even more hapless and pitiful than he is at invective, but that's neither here nor there.

He's obviously been caponized for the nonce, at least on this thread and the others on which I've seen him posting. He daren't publicly dangle his wrinkled willie in these venues lest he get it mousetrapped instantly and agonizingly, and he's therefore reduced to fearful impotence and the sort of stool-chucking behavior of a caged monkey.

Well, hell. As I've observed, what more can we expect?





=====
"Religion has treated knowledge sometimes as an enemy, sometimes as a hostage; often as a captive and more often as a child."

-- Charles Caleb Colton

what an amusing little flirt!


SJ is so intent on crowning himself One-Eyed King, he expounded:

" . . . few of these "social" pseudoconservatives are familiar with the literature of ideas that I'd not thought it useful to bring up that topic."

I'm still hopeful our gay Genius will trot out this great literature of ideas.

"It's a touchstone so far above their pointy little heads that they get nosebleeds just from looking up at such stuff."

There it IS! He HAS read some important books! He IS an auto-didact. He puts away the idea that he might be only jerking off!

OK-- I hope he'll display his "literature of ideas." We already saw the science fiction writer. What new mutants can SJ point to in his library? Lol!

5:09 PM SJGenius says:

He says nothing:

Nothing in response to the question:

You-- SJDoc isn't the sophisticated boy prostitute we all meet here daily?

I guess he is.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


"Not so, Master Secretary; the maxim is "qui tacet consentire," the maxim is "Silence gives consent."

Thomas More, in A Man For All Seasons, by Robert Bolt

SJGenius is a boy prostitute, he was mum.

What is dreadnaught?
--
Search the literature though you might, our drained dreaddie is sui generis.

Unless you crack open a copy of DSM-IV, that is....


Awaiting the next occasion in which dreaddie slips into what he thinks is a statement of fact (rather than this fumbling effort at "Charcter assassination," trying to slip in a miserecordia when all he's got is a limp lizard in his palpitating paws), I'll get back to work.





=====
"Puppet masters - the free men are coming to kill you!

"Death and Destruction!"

-- Robert A. Heinlein

Who is SJDoc?
Minor intellects with grandiose pretension "deserve to be degraded, ridiculed, and pounded into mush whenever they start mouthing off!"

What famous writer have you stolen that line from? OH! Yeah; Gore (the sphincter) Vidal!!! Your role model.

SJDoc/ Mellor whiffs again flailing away
Actually you have proved Dreadnought precisely correct.

Dreadnought has now embarassed you, and your other militants who work different shits under your handle(s).

None of you can handle him when he challenges any of you, so you call the best insult queen you have to respond.

Quite honestly SJ Doc/Mellor and the alter egos etc. you should be embarassed, humiliated, and ashamed that no one in your group has the intellect to challenge normal everyday posters here at TH.

Your gaggle of insult queens is nothing better than gotcha games. They prove nothing except to:

Illustrate brillianly how TH columns have provoked an organized homosexual militant response. Now you know the veracity of the column is right on the money when that happens.


Now the Mauve Cavalier darts to Google


Hurry!

Google Anna Akhmatova! Get up to speed, Dashing Blade!

Heinlein easily forgettable


Fine-- I'm an old codger; my memory has to be cautious.

How many whole books have you made it through? Just Heinlein, I figure. He's just a notch above H. Ryder Haggard, nothing close to intellectual. (Maybe it was The Puppet Masters I forgot.) Inconsequential, you can have Heinlein.

But he thrills you! Was he a sophisticated boy prostitute like you? Wait! You're a dashing Englishman! Rex Harrison, not a pansy!

dreadnaught - Er, *Day of the Triffids*
--
...was written by a Brit, John Wyndham.

So much for dreaddie's claims about having "devoured" anything.

What does it matter what you claimed to have read, dreaddie if you keep proving that you've retained of them precisely nothing?




=====
"Button-cute, rapier-keen, wafer-thin and pauper-poor is S.J. Perelman, whose tall, stooping figure is better known to the twilit half-world of five continents than to Publishers' Row. That he possesses the power to become invisible to finance companies; that his laboratory is tooled up to manufacture Frankenstein-type monsters on an incredible scale; and that he owns one of the rare mouths in which butter has never melted are legends treasured by every schoolboy."

-- S.J. Perelman

(( Who is, other readers should very much to their benefit learn, one of the funniest damned essayists who ever put ink upon paper, and who also co-wrote a couple of the scripts for the Marx Brothers' movies. It's something of a minor miracle that our damnfool dreaddie has ever heard of him - though, of course, he misspells Perelman's name. ))

--

Please! Stop with the Hein-line

SJ,

I told it so well:

You have never read an important book. Robert H. Heinlein is a fine science fiction writer; otherwise of no importance at all. I devoured Day of the Triffids when I was a kid. He wrote quite well, for his fans. They grow out of that genre.

I've no idea what else you've managed to finish. I don't brag on my reading list; but you'd better not even ask. You seem articulate enough, but not very educated or wise. Can you name ONE book of Thomas Mann's you struggled through? (He was a homosexual, a gifted one.)

How about Proust? How about J W N Sullivan, Anna Akhmatova, Blasco Ibanez? Have you read any Winston Churchill? Or SJ Perelmann, Nabokov?

Until you've read and re-read some of these; you are no heavyweight. You just quote a few lightweights here, to improve your dull posting.

Nice try; with Heinlein. At least better than Mencken.


George - On Heinlein
--
Well, finally we get someone familiar with the line and clan marriages described in *The Moon is a Harsh Mistress*.

So few of these "social" pseudoconservatives are familiar with the literature of ideas that I'd not thought it useful to bring up that topic. It's a touchstone so far above their pointy little heads that they get nosebleeds just from looking up at such stuff.

Meanwhile, bear in mind that this "anderson659" fraud is a complete and utter simulacrum - far less real than even Heinlein's fictional creation "Mike" - and avoid engaging "him" to any extent.

We must not encourage the conspiracy of vicious atheists running this "anderson659" persona online.

Yes, the religious stoneheads deserve to be degraded, ridiculed, and pounded into mush whenever they start mouthing off - but this "black propaganda" approach is simply unsportsmanlike.

I decry it, and hope that you will, too.




======
"One can judge from experiment, or one can blindly accept authority. To the scientific mind, experimental proof is all important and theory is merely a convenience in description, to be junked when it no longer fits. To the academic mind, authority is everything and facts are junked when they do not fit theory laid down by authority."

-- Robert A. Heinlein

du and the doo-doo
First, anything you disagree with is labeled, demeaned, or referred to in derogatory terms.That means anything contrary to your homosexual militant agenda.

The term homosexual militant agenda is in fact very correct, has no panic attached to it, just the truth, and to label it as anything more than that is:

Homosexual militant hysteria.

You yourself are a homosexual militant determined to further your homosexual marriage agenda. Referring to you as a homosexual militant only identifies your purpose and agenda to the casual reader.

Your post is a typical grievance committe door opener, followed by the appeal to victim status.

I watch the left wing blogs, and the homosexual agenda as well. Your post is nothing more than a dupe to TH readers who log on here to express their opnions in a safe productive forum.

Labeling this forum as anything else other than a place to express honest feelings is disingenuous and false. As a frequent visitor that should be a given for you.

Then again, false statements are your bread and butter.

I wonder
How many panic baiting articles are going to be written about the 'militant homosexual agenda'?

Nimock makes it sound like gay members of the media, or their media itself is engaged in hiding something from the public at large.

Any one of you, can access that media or simply listen to the few gay people who post at this site.
There is nothing hidden, no conspiracy of defectives running the roost, no need to 'what if' an opinion to death.

Only those truly ignorant and not invested in learning anything other than an extremely narrow definition of gay people all together would believe the tripe that TH is passing off.

I am a frequent visitor myself, but in trying to observe this thread neutrally, I suppose I'm amazed at how childishly insufficient the majority of posts are on facts regarding gay people.

When someone has to even use those three words, 'militant homosexual agenda', they are already on the path to fear mongering and that alone should make decent and intelligent people wary.
And those morally sound enough to recognize such claims echo another, terrible past our nation should never revisit again.

Gay people are not employing or exploiting fear and ignorance.

And clearly, TH defines, for that reason alone, how gay people, or other minorities become 'suspect classes'.

TH wants to make sure that EVERYTHING gay people do, say or express IS suspicious.

A good question would be, why is it practically a religion unto itself to want to believe it so badly, regardless of how specious or even ludicrous the claims?

And to what GOOD has all this agitation come to?

Do you see your lives much improved one way or the other?
And whether or not marriage working for gay couples isn't how this should be judged.

Marriage doesn't work for nearly 60% if man/woman couples. But no one is suggesting they give up or not try, right?

a mistake of gene's:


You name a condition, upon which:

"you won't have much difficulty dismissing the few fragmentary biblical passages that deal with the subject as anachronisms, which most contemporary scholars do."

THAT is wrong.

There is no way of "dismissing" any commandment of God. He has the final word; we only OBEY. "Contemporary scholars" have absolutely NO authority to teach you ANYTHING contrary to God's Word, as a mere anachronism. We are taught in the Catholic Church there is no other source of Truth except God. If it inconveniences homosexuals, that's their own fault. They don't wish to be corrected. And HE will be obeyed or else.

must agree with gene
This is true:

"The duty of all citizens is to accept and respect all natural human variants that do no harm, including variations in race and variations in sexual orientation."

Gene; I can see this-- though not "ALL" variations. You know some are sick.

But this statement Nowhere has it we must LOWER the ideals of true marriage. A true marriage is entered into by a couple for whom NO IMPEDIMENT exists to that conjugal union.

Man with woman.

Homosexuality is a well-known impediment to marriage. You cannot implement a marriage of gay men, or women. In the society of men, this is unnatural and depraved.

But that in no ways means we are free to discriminate against gays or harm them. We have to respect the individual, allow him his freedom. Not, however encroachment of a sacred vocation like marriage.

Response to Rich D.
Professor Gagnon's site lists a number of papers on this subject most of which appear to be his own debates with other religious scholars who argue in favor of embracing homosexual unions and pastors.

Look, the bottom line here is that if you are pre-disposed to hate queers you will probably be able to find support for your views in biblical texts, sketchy though they may be.

If, however, you are pre-disposed to accept homosexual orientation as a natural, though minority, variation in human sexuality, then you won't have much difficulty dismissing the few fragmentary biblical passages that deal with the subject as anachronisms, which most contemporary scholars do.

Homosexual orientation is not chosen by anyone; it is thrust upon them. The duty of all citizens is to accept and respect all natural human variants that do no harm, including variations in race and variations in sexual orientation.

gene, wrong on the Scriptures!
"The biblical case against homosexuality is weak at best."

The definitive work on the subject was written by a faculty member of PTS - Dr. Robert Gagnon. Nobody has done it better. Perhaps if read his works you might want to rethink your assertion of ambiguity.

http://www.pts.edu/gagnonr.html

He is the author of The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics (Abingdon 2001).

finishing with airhead


". . . Their deeply ingrained bigotry would cause . . . the suggestion of such a thing totally offensive."

YES, in fact very offensive. Love for God and our faith isn't "bigotry."

Blasphemy is plain stupidity; you're guilty.

Guilty of sodomy, guilty here of blasphemy, guilty of nonsense!

Don't EVER come here trying to make a case for VICE from the Holy Bible,

--Nincompoop!

.


A real stupid kid
Going back over this thread; which I entered late--

I see this crap, posted at 4:26, Oct 20 by "gene" --

". . . Jesus, I don't know about Him and John, but He and Judas kissed did they not?"

Lol! An AIRHEAD! --No, stupid;

JUDAS pointed out the "victim" Jesus with a kiss. To soldiers who went to arrest Him. Jesus kissed NOBODY!

Where are these dopes learning all their tripe? Not even the Son of God is spared !

MORE MUCUS: "--Jesus never married, never sired any children during 33 years of life and spent all his time in the company of twelve guys."

How suspicious!!!!! ROTFLMAO!

Jesus is CELIBATE; Dummy! He is the Lamb of God; offered up to death for our sins! A PROPHET! Most prophets, if not all, were celibates, taking vows. Jesus is our High Priest-- It isn't a vice to be single. It IS a vice to be homosexual!

". . . no proof He or David or Jonathan were gay . . . anecdotal evidence is pretty strong,"

David, Jonathan are INNOCENT, you admit there's NO PROOF. ____Anecdotal evidence____ HERE shows you are not qualified to explain Scripture. Quit being obnoxious! David the king was a heterosexual MALE; siring the Messianic line of descendency down to Our Lord Himself. By smearing what is HOLY, you commit the sin of blasphemy, Gene! It's going to DAMN you someday!

"and there's NO solid evidence to the contrary."

The burden of proof is on the accuser, Perry Mason.



"Personally, I don't think . . . "

That's your problem! Who asked you to think?


Martel: CenterPieces Unfair to Corvino
Martel:
"The centerpieces of the article that started all this are instances of legal and administrative coercion."

So the article claims, and from the description of those incidents, they do sound like coercive, unfair lawsuits. But the article associates John Corvino with these lawsuits on NO BASIS WHATSOEVER. All Corvino has written was what he would like.

Martel:
"If you have a link to anything Corvino has written discouraging his compatriots from pursuing litigious revenge, I think we would all like to see it."

I imagine you would. But, do you have any sense at all that you're out of line saying crap like this? Not that it's a crime to bring unfair lawsuits in this country, but in our country everybody (and that even includes gays) is innocent until proven guilty. I've said above and in earlier posts that the article implies that Corvino supports/encourages these coercive lawsuits without any evidence, and you haven't disputed that. Yet the first thing you do is demand proof that Corvino does NOT support such lawsuits. The proper response to that demand is to say that you first show me any credible evidence that he DOES! Otherwise, why should I waste my time??

I can't believe that I'm telling you anything you don't already know. Tell me, does the fact that Corvino is Gay have anything to do with the ease with which you switch from 'innocent until proven guilty' to the other way around?

Martel:
"Otherwise, what do you think the response will be when we answer Corvino's entreaty with a firm and final "no"?"

I see no evidence that Corvino will start suing. Other Gay people may, and that just shows that Gays are like everybody else in our overly litigious society.

George: To conclude


George went on:

"I support the rights of gay people--"

That's understandable; I support homosexuals civil rights and human rights. However, not their depraved rights. (To be brutally honest, it would meet my approval if they were still penalized for flagrante delicto; as they once were.)

They can't truly be married. With or without legal permits. It's biologically certain they can't. That's not a "right."

"my own flesh and blood is a gay man."

OK! You're the mother of a homosexual! Are you
"dru"--? She argued like a panther passing broken glass; Geo might be "dru." Doesn't matter.

". . . I will not abide a gay man who is a liar and a cheat. And that is what Dreadnought is."

No; why should you? I can't abide liars or cheats either.

I'm with you there. What can I do? Just say clearly: Homosexuality is a sin. Yet I don't hate the sinner. And; I'm a straight and uncomplicated man. Not one with homosexual issues in any conceivable way. For which I offer thanks to God. IMHO, Gays are the modern-day lepers. Nobody wants to be a leper! That must be a heavy cross to bear.

yes, now I see the post


I see what
George (???) posted;

It's bizarre. If I knew him before? it would explain why he calumniates me now.

"Subject: Dreadnought
Hello dred; remember me? I am your worst enemy. You cannot escape my judgement

To everybody: What we have here is DREADNOUGHT. A liar and a turncoat; he turns against his own kind.
DRED writes under different names, sometimes posing as a devout christian, with this name, and sometimes as a militant homosexual."

Thank, you George. Baring your teeth this way is enough proof you're vulgar and shameless. I won't have to treat you very seriously. What you're saying here is all FALSE.

"I think he is a self hating fa&&ot; yes, I can call him that. He deserves worse."

If I were a f.a.g, trust me-- I wouldn't be afraid to say so. My handle here is all-inclusive: NO FEAR.

Am I self-hating? Lol!

I might have reason, but not because of my sexual orientation. I hate my own sins. (I should've known better.)

*Snip, and he's on the soap-box* "someone who turns on his own people, who lies and cheats for no other reason than to feel clever, to feel superior over others."

"George." Is he in-- or out, of the closet? Or is she Georgia? Don't know, but George is filled with sadness and hatred. I feel very sorry for him/her.

BTW-- You claim we met before. Were you George then, or some other male name? Over time I've debated with number of lesburros and homosexuals in Toon Hall. I'm no turncoat; I spoke exactly as I now speak.

I have never contributed a single word anywhere online; except under two pseudonyms: Dreadnaught, and one which would give you access to my email & actual name. (So I won't divulge that.)

Here I have only one: Dreadnaught. Sorry to disappoint yuz. Is this maybe a mistaken identity brain-fart in your memory?



good testimonial


Thrilled as can be; old Naughty, this morning.

I found the great testimonial SJ Mellor-Doc makes to my contributions here. When the dregs of society hurl bad names at you, you can be sure of two wonderful things:

One, You stand in higher prestige than you could have imagined. (It won't go to my head, being a devout Christian.)

Two, The grace of God is touching said deviants; a feeling they detest. Devils run from holy water and the crucifix; so much do they hate God. Yet; the sign of the cross made on characters like SJDoc and his shadow thief, Mellors;

. . . the sign of the cross is miraculous; it may cause him somehow, in his final moments-- to give up his false pride and implore forgiveness of God. It might just happen, though we won't witness it. Let's have faith.

must answer beth


Dear Beth,

I'm sorry I offend your great sensitivity.

You're WRONG.

Jesus is the Son of God. He told me & you-- and the devil:

"Not by bread alone does man live; but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God."

Since we know for sure Almighty God condemned the activity of homosexuals vehemently; even destroying Sodom & Gomorrah; and also how seriously the apostle Paul denounces that sin;

Jesus Christ also does. His holy words will never uphold any work of man's in direct contradiction of His Father.

He also cautions us clearly: "If your hand causes you to sin, cut off your hand; better for you to enter heaven with one hand, than to be cast into hell with both your hands." This means whoever dies in the unrepented sins committed in sodomy, will surely be cast into hell.

You are free to disobey. But not to alter the meaning of God's Holy Word.

Religionists - Sarah Palin's done you in
--
Rockefeller Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin has just given (perhaps unwittingly) a concession fatal to your cause in her announcement of support for "a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage."

This admission of the need for such an amendment is in itself an acknowledgement that government under rule of law - the U.S. Constitution as it presently stands - can neither at the federal level nor in the several states undertake to forbid same-sex marriage.

All religionist arguments (if such we can, under an exceptional stretch of the word "courtesy," call your idiocies arguments) averse to "gay marriage" as a matter of civil law are now to be considered universally and without exception void.

Ka-CHING!

Game over, god-heads. The faigelen have walked off the ice with an empty-netter, courtesy of the Hockey Mom.





=====
"Our Constitution was not intended to be used by ... any group to foist its personal religious beliefs on the rest of us."

— Katherine Hepburn

None - Egads, seriatim
--
None articulates some of what he (I'm assuming "he") sees as "problems with gay marriage."


"a) The policy legitimizes the illegitimate."

So did the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and the whole New Deal. Argument void for vagueness.


"b) Sex, like it or not, is about perpetuating species."

And marriage, like it or not, is about *MORE* than "perpetuating [the] species." Argument from design. The buzzer again goes *ERRRK!*


"c) You DO open the door for any kind of marital format by allowing gay marriage."

True, but so what? No proof of damage. Jefferson's "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" obtains.


"d) It is opening the door for low-level Christian persecution."

Fine. Christians thrive on "persecution." If the don't get enough of it IRL, they make it up.


Apparently not understanding the nature of "fascism," None goes on to say that: "This is a type of fascism," complaining that "...now it's way out in the open, being turned into PUBLIC policy, and our kids and pastors and Christian businesspeople are being punished for rejecting this behavioral proclivity."

Punished? Punished how?

And "fascism" how?

Further deponent speaketh not.

Any expansion on None's themes would be welcomed, but yet again we've got another example of unsupported religionist arguments that fail of sufficiency, definition, and logical integrity.

Next?

--

The marriage answer.
George, then you agree that polygamy is perfectly normal, especially interracial polygamy. A normal marriage, not prohibited by the constitution.

Consenting adults not related. You also agree that unrelated people who are mentally retarded should be able to marry without restrictions.
And you choose to selectively discriminate against those you do not approve of, related people being married.

How can you disapprove of related people being married George, if they are consenting adults? Nothing in the constitution prohibits it, right George? Isnt that the basest form of discrimination and denial of civil rights George?

George, a follow up.
George, nothing sly. That is silly. I pointed out historical facts.

You should have watched the history channel last month. You would have heard the same thing. I have to admit this very second I am at a loss to have the book in front of me, it exists as does others.Perhaps a review is needed on your end.

Stalin's mother wanted him to be a priest. Osama bin Laden wants to see homosexuals eliminated.

And for your information George, I associate no one person by themselves with anything by one statement. I do however like to point out history from time to time.


George on Gelli, etc.
Gelli, supposedly committed suicide. Yes interesting. However, many historians have concluded, that Mr. Hitler was probably a closet homosexual. That would be par for the course at that time.

And I try to place myself in the context of the times, that is important.

I always ask myself, how did a bunch of thugs, the SA, end up with homosexuals throughout the entire upper echelon of that group ?

thoughts, or history?


George,
Yes, you are a debatable guy with strong beliefs. At least you stand for something, and in disagreement, you are not suggesting I be killed like Mellor and his other creations.

George, I had two cousins die of AIDS. I grew up with them. Here in Az. where we grew up, they were my only cousins. Their lives read like a dimestore novel. They did the bathhouse scene. One night at a party one of them made unwelcome advances and found himself brutally assaulted.

I had several of those messes to clean up. I also did Forensics for thirty plus years. The most horrible murder scenes belonged to homosexual murders.

Love and hate seemed to be a very blurred line. And hate sprang forth every time there was another who entered the picture.

I have strong reliious beliefs, and George, admittedly even here at TH the homosexual militants go way too far.

I do not mean to offend you with posts, but I have been very jaded lately after dealing with a few of these people. Hope you understand.i will watch my tone.


Egads (part 2)
c) You DO open the door for any kind of marital format by allowing gay marriage. Using the equal protection clause as it has been to justify gay marriage can be used for any type of relationship. Who are any of you to say that a man who wants to marry his two sisters should be denied his right? Equal protection under the law, remember. No discrimination or intolerance for "alternative lifestyles" remember. By your definition of bigotry and fairness, you would be hypocritical to deny this man this right. Or a woman who wanted to marry her father. Or a man his dog. (Which has been done in India, so it's not unheard of.) And, for the record, there's already a polygamy case floating around our courts as I type this. Congratulations gay lobby!

d) It is opening the door for low-level Christian persecution. Kids being forced to learn about homosexuality regardless of their parents' belief systems or wishes!?! THAT'S tolerance?!? And some teachers who are actually mocking kids with a Biblical mindset?? Is this your brave new freaking world?!? Never mind the other good examples Austin listed.

This is a type of fascism. It's low-level, but usually this kind of stuff starts gradually. At first it was "What we do in the privacy of our bedrooms is our business!" Granted. But now it's way out in the open, being turned into PUBLIC policy, and our kids and pastors and Christian businesspeople are being punished for rejecting this behavioral proclivity. For years all I ever heard about was the coming fascistic Christo-theocracy, when all the time the true robber of our freedoms is coming from a radical, far-LEFT ideology. The rest of you had better pray that this movement doesn't decide that your free thought is unconstitutional "intolerance" and therefore a hate crime.

George,that is a laugh
Your constitution arguement is flat out false. The constitution neither embraces or prohibits many, many things. The constitution is a frame, not the finished product. Laws came after the constitution George,

The founding fathers never included homosexuality because no one, no one, felt that was needed at the time it was written.

Homosexual marriage had never worked anywhere in the world,practitioners was considered deviant and dirty, had no standing anywhere in the world in any nation for any reason

Why on earth would anyone decide that was important? Projecting your 21 century beliefs onto 17th century writings is laughable George!

Egads (part 1)
The stuff I'm reading here shows such a gross example of what happens when people think emotionally. Gay marriage is a problem for several reasons. And sorry to some of you who refuse to admit this, but there is a radical gay lobby in this country that wants to silence churches and Christians with regard to criticisms of homosexual behavior. This is happening in Europe, Canada and Australia, and it is in its infancy here. With far-left loons on our benches, this perverse and unconstitutional agenda may just get passed through and we'll begin to see some low-level, gov't-sponsored persecution of Christians in the United States. The Founders must be turning in their graves. I know, I'm just being paranoid.

The problems with gay marriage are these...

a) The policy legitimizes the illegitimate. Comparing homosexual abnormality with someone's unusual eye color is just plain ridiculous. Let's put the Bible down for a minute and ignore nature's God. Let's take this from a Godless, Darwinian viewpoint: the first generation of any species born homosexual would be naturally DE-selected. I.e., homosexuality would kill the species. That's healthy and normal? Is that something you want to champion?

b) Sex, like it or not, is about perpetuating species. Exactly where does any other sexual deviation fit into that, either Biblically OR secularly? ** (cont'd) **

George
Once again, you do not answer a simple question that is a yes or no answer. I did not ask for an irrelevant interracial case.

Yes or no on the question George, does any consenting adult have the right to marry whoever they wish?

Yes or no?

It is a simple case of your side supporting selective discrimination if you answer no. You can not deny any consenting adult marriage based on your posts here tonight without being discriminatory George.

The Ernest Rohm question George is one of history, and assigns no blame, just recognition of history. the facts are what they are in his case, and that of Hitler. Same with other mass murderers that were homosexual.

As in your posts including the last one, you like to point out history. So do I. I have been forced to reflect on all of the homosexual militant challenges on marriage and my life style, and decided you people need to answer a few questions yourself.

I have asked you a half dozen questions, and you have ignored them. That is typical of your side. If it is not in the homosexual militant talking points, it is not answered,

And as to evidence, again, post what you have about Mr. dreadnought. I would not hesitate to if he is what you say. Enlighten all of us.

George - Oh, come now
--
How is Crash Test Johnnie any more of a "coward" than is the Mocha Messiah?

Both candidates of the great Boot-On-Your-Neck Party haver, hem, haw, and outright deny reality.

The truth is their enemy, each as much as the other.

Good heavens, haven't you figured this out yet? We haven't had an honest man standing up and speaking the truth in a presidential campaign since 1964.

And that sure as hell wasn't LBJ.




=====
"The oldest philosophy in the world is conservatism, and I go clear back to the first Greeks. ... When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

-- Barry Goldwater

George concerning dreadnought
Post the names you say dreadnought posts under. Give us a reference. I did with Mellor and his creations, SJ Doc etc. I even listed two columns where he was caught at it.

If what you say is the truth, enlighten all of us so we may look and judge.


George - On dreaddie
--
Gad, man! D'you boast and thump your chest like this when you swat a fly?

This is *dreaddie* you're talking about. A pustule. An ingrown hair. A mere abrasion on the great backside of the American body politic.

And what can you really know of him, anyway? "On the Internet, nobody can tell you're a dog." He may be - like the "anderson659" construct - a complete simulacrum, cobbled together by a cluster of adolescent boys in a Baptist youth group as a means of whiling away their empty hours while their parents think they're involved in some sort of online Bible-study program.

Let's face it, even fumbling up dreaddie's crap has got to be more interesting than what passes for theological education among the low Protestant cults.

At least he's not like "anderson659," which can't be said to have "his own people" because it's not a "people" to begin with.




=====
"The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."

-- Barry Goldwater

Response to LuLu @ 8:16 PM
Every word of your post could have been used 50 years ago to argue against mixed race marriages. Nobody expects you to 'endorse' their marriage, be it mixed race or same gender, but they do expect you to treat them with the same degree of RESPECT that you would a same race, opposite gender marriage.

If there hadn't been any protest 50 years ago we still wouldn't allow mixed race marriages today, and it is teh protests of today that will result eventually, if not on Nov 4 2008, legal recognition of same gender marriages as well as mixed race ones.

PS - don't you people find it even slightly self centered to say that what people do in the privacy of thier own homes "infringes on other peoples right to live by their own conscience and/or religious beliefs"? It is just breathtaking to me that you or anyone else can honestly think that your concience and/religious beliefs should take precedence over other peoples lives who don't believe as you do! I simply cannot digest that kind of ego centrism.

Response to Todd @ 8:23 PM
Homosexuality is probably not genetic, but that doesn't mean it is not congenital. One credible theory, among many is that homosexuality, among males at least, results from antigens forming in the mother's body after she has given birth to multiple male infants. The younger of these male siblings becomes somewhat or even significantly feminized by her hormonal antigens, thus gay boys are born.

Not proven. Just a theory. But credible and not linked to genetics.

Joycey - On the loss of freedom
--
Writes Joycey:

"The argument on the homos side doesn't change. It is more honest but it doesn't change.

"Everyone knew this would come down to homos trying to force acceptance on Christians and would involve the loss of freedom."


If the civil rights argument ("they pay their taxes, they're entitled to equal government services") is sound, why should it be modified?

But how do you conceive that you - in the enjoyment of your own marital rights - would be subject to "force" of any kind? And in what ways, precisely, could same-sex marriage "involve the loss of freedom" for you or anyone else?

Freedom from what? Freedom to do what?

Have you - or anyone else invoking their respective religious bigotries under the color of politics - any real, detailed answer to these questions?

So many assertions, so frantic and formless, with so little real, objective, rational support.

Whose ox is gored here, Joycey? How?

Or is the simple asking of such questions a defiance of the conventions to which you and other religionists are so slavishly attached that I'm intolerably enraging you for nothing more than voicing an observation that your Emperor is parading down the street buck nekkid?




=====
"We will be a better country when each religious group can trust its members to obey the dictates of their own religious faith without assistance from the legal structure of the country."

-- Margaret Mead

Actually SJDoc
I was primarily concerned with men, but given what's been going on with female school teachers maybe you are right.

Beth
Technically you are wrong. The New Testament was written down by the actual witnesses of the risen Christ Jesus. Even Paul who saw the Christ when he was struck off of his horse and blinded. Peter wrote his letters. James wrote his letters. John wrote his gospel and letters and Revelation, which I highly recommend everyone read during these times. Luke was a gentile doctor that worked with Paul. Mark traveled with Paul and Barnabas. Matthew was an eye witness of Jesus's entire ministry. How could these books have been written decades later. And why would these books have been written decades later. And why would you believe these books were written decades later unless you just don't want to believe them.

Hah! The ''anderson659'' handlers..
--
...after repeately using their creation to demand "clickable hotlinks" knowing that the Townhall.com scripting software is notoriously unreliable in rendering any URL posted in a "Reply" box thus, refuse to provide such links to the cement-headed Mr. Knight's column of 8 October, or la Crouse's confection of 17 October, even though they know that most of these Townhall.com addresses *can* be hotlinked in spite of this defect. Thus:

http://townhall.com/columnists/RobertKnight/2008/10/08/how_ 25_years_of_gay_activism_in_hollywood_has_paid_off?page=ful l&comments=true

...and:

http://townhall.com/columnists/JaniceShawCrouse/2008/10/17/ will_californians_reject_the_sacredness_of_marriage?page=fu ll&comments=true


The "anderson659" conspiracy is hesitant to make it easy for readers to view their stereotyped, perseverative, theatrical fanfaronades in either of these two columns (neither accessible now by way of the Townhall.com home page), and so they cross their fingers and hope that the gullible will take them at their "word."

Ha! One look at these repetetive dollops of reflexive, disconnected, over-the-top witlessness will reveal the "anderson659" method.

It is so difficult to keep up an effective portrayal of noxious stupidity on the "anderson659" level that the perpetrators of this hoax unavoidably tread one another's heels, and this is readily demonstrated on the Knight and Crouse threads.

No more of this, you people, wherever and whoever you are. Not even the most blatantly bigoted religious fanatics deserve this kind of portrayal.

Enough, I say.



=====
"Impiety, n.: Your irreverence toward my deity."

-- Ambrose Bierce

here's the thing
THe argument on my side doesn't change.
The argument on the homos side doesn't change. It is more honest but it doesn't change.

Everyone knew this would come down to homos trying to force acceptance on Christians and would involve the loss of freedom.

It's the evil way of the world.

It doesn't do the homos any good.

If God says something is wrong, we don't have the power to change that. It is what it is.

By the way, see post #2 on SJDoc
Take a moment and review my post #2 from earlier. Check out all of his posts on this thread.

When the column reaches a certain amount of posts, he will summon his characters, LovelsEqual, Will, Ron, etc to begin posting.







Obsession
Homos are way to into thinking about homosexuality.

Immorality causes guilt.
It doesn't matter if we approve. They will never feel approved of. That is the way with sin. A murderer can be driven mad even if he has got off free. Guilt. Real sin causes guilt. They the homos are trying to project their guilt onto others. But the disapproval is from within and will never go away. This holds true for anyone practicing immorality. Child molestors will never feel approved of. Adulterers will never feel approved of. This must lead to insanity.

Bravo Doc!
Encore! Encore!

Now as you have stated all TH readers should check out what you posted on the Knight column of 10/8, and the Crouse column from two days ago. And you also forget the Tallman column.

And once again Doc, you claim to besomething you are not.

Later on SJDoc, call out your other characters.

As I said, an exclamation point on the authors column. He stops at nothing.

The ''anderson659'' cut-and-paste
--
Unless the discerning reader is experienced in other threads on Townhall.com, it is difficult to spot the patterned malignancy of the cadre running the artificial personality we see here as "anderson659."

Be assured that this obvious fabrication is the result of a number of flagrant religion-haters, whose purpose is obviously the promulgation of "black propaganda" against Christian true believers trying to undertake political action to forbid homosexuals the exercise of their civil rights in the matter of government recognition of their election of matrimony.

Admittedly, I agree with their intentions, but their methods - foisting this "anderson659" facade upon the public as if it were a real person, portraying him as a total, blathering, psychotically paranoid idiot (see his Reply #308, so easily discerned as a cut-and-paste from several other threads) in order to degrade *ALL* persons of faith - are so objectionable that I must decry them.

Indeed, they even try to leverage the fact that I'd spoken of my experience with HIV-infected patients (mostly injection drug users [IDUs]) presenting in my clinic in the early '80s with Kaposi's sarcoma, Pneumocystis pneumonia, and other diseases we later came correctly to associate with HIV-induced immunosuppression as if I'd claimed to have "...treated AIDS before anyone else knew about it."

Nonsense. Nobody was "treating AIDS" (outside of clinical trials with the first NRTI drugs) to any real effect until we had good HAART regimens in 1996.

And these "anderson659" handlers know this full well, let me assure you.

They're trying to make their "anderson659" simulation so stupid that no one of any intelligence could believe that this "creature" could be so much as toilet-trained.

And there - in their exaggeration - they fail.

--